UU Team Rating Competition - Finals [Won by Sacri']

[IronBullet]

Banner by Team Pokepals

Hosts: IronBullet, Christo., Arifeen, Kreme, Shiba
​

Welcome to RMT's first UU team rating competition! In this tournament, we will provide each of you with a team to rate every round. You will then rate the given team and submit it to the Team Raters you are assigned. When the round is over, the participants who submitted the best rates will move on to the next round.

Important notes:

• The rates in the final two rounds will count towards the Team Rater
  
  badge and doing well in general will earn you more consideration for it.
• The winner will be awarded voice status in the RMT room on PS if they have shown an interest in getting involved (If you are currently an active voice and win, you may be promoted to driver).
• Each round will last one week. Failure to rate the team within the one week time period will result in disqualification unless you're able to give us a valid reason. Please only sign up if you can commit to rating one team every week for the next month.
• If you are eliminated and would like some feedback on your rate and how you can improve going forward, feel free to ask us.

All participants please PM your rate to IronBullet. You have until 23:59 pm EST on Sunday, 10 April to submit your rate.

Good luck everyone, and here's to a fun and competitive tournament!

Participants

1. Adaam.
2. Sacri'

 

[IronBullet]

The best rate of this round was once again submitted by Sacri'. His rate was not perfect and not as good as last round's but his threat analysis and suggestions were still the best, so congrats man!

Here's his rate:

Sacri's rate

Hello Kreme & Shiba, nice team you have here. Overall it looks rather solid but I think there are still some issues to fix so let's move onto the rate.

• The first thing I noticed was a weakness to some strong UU wallbreakers like Mamoswine and SD Feraligatr/Crawduant. This is why I'm suggesting Fast Defog Salamence @ Yache Berry over Zapdos. This change effectively revenge kills SD Feraligatr/Crawduant and can be a cheeky lure for Mamoswine with Yache Berry that allows you to live Mamoswine's ice shard to pretty much kill it back. It's not the best way to deal with it, obviously, but it still allows you to lure it which is much appreciated. It also gives you a emegency button vs SD Lucario that is also hell of a threat to the team.

• The second change I'm suggesting is running Florges with a Bold Nature and this spread: 252 HP/160 Def/96 Spe. This EV spread outspeeds Adamant Crawduant and OHKOs with Moonblast, I think that you can afford to have less defense to deal with Crawdaunt because the team doesnt have any good switch in to it and it can be really annoying if it gets a free hit versus Seismitoad or Escavalier. I also suggest Calm Mind over Wish because this team looks like it can have trouble vs a lot of balance and stall builds. My reasoning for a Bold Nature is so you can more easily live attacks from Feraligatr and Mamoswine. Thanks to Pursuit Mega Aero, the team does pretty well vs things like Alakazam or Shaymin so you will not miss a Calm Nature too much.

sets

Salamence @ Yache Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy

Options : • Something like Whimsicott over Florges could fix this Shark/Daunt/Gatr weakness but it would also make the team much weaker to Special Dragons. At this point it's pretty much up to you guys, I personally think that both versions are decent even if Florges seems more reasonable in general to help versus many threats in this metagame. This change would also mean a different direction to the team, which was supposed to be a balanced team at the start. Still, if you want to try It, I'd recommand using offensive Whimsicott with a Pixie Plate.

Hope I helped !

First off he perfectly identified the major issue of the team which was a weakness to strong physical Water-type wallbreakers, namely Sharpedo, Cradwdaunt and Feraligatr. He did miss out on Mega Swampert as a threat though, which other raters spotted. His suggestion of Yache Berry Salamence to deal with these threats was rather unorthodox but largely did the job. It also offered the team a much more solid check to SD Lucario than Zapdos. His next change of adding some speed to Florges was a minor one but very effective, seeing as Crawdaunt could potentially cause the team a lot of grief. We felt the suggestion of CM Florges was down to personal preference more than anything. One could argue that Wish Florges is more necessary for this team as Escavalier and Seismitoad are not difficult to wear down and Calm Mind Alakazam is a pretty good answer to stall, but CM would definitely make Florges more of a threat against bulky teams and would give the team a solid additional wincon. Whimsicott over Florges was actually a suggestion we had in mind and one which would go a long way to fixing the team's issues. Sacri was right in spotting that the change would make the team a bit weaker to Dragons though, but they could still definitely be played around.

Other changes we were looking for:
- Addressing the weakness to Mega Swampert by going with HP Grass over Heat Wave on Zapdos, which several raters did suggest so props for that!
- Making Zapdos bulkier to deal with powerful Fighting-types better.
- Adaam suggested Dazzling Gleam over Shadow Ball which was a very interesting option since Sableye was potentially a large threat to the team. Shadow Ball also wouldn't be missed too much with Escavalier handling bulky Psychic-types easily and Doublade being countered by Seismitoad and Zapdos.

Overall the performance this round was honestly quite poor. Only a couple of raters identified the team's main issues accurately; others suggested changes that didn't help the team much at all and instead opened up other weaknesses. Escavalier for example was an invaluable member of this team due to its ability to defeat bulky Psychics, check special attackers like Alakazam and Kyurem, and be a very threatening wincon against defensive teams, but some raters suggested replacements like Doublade and Forretress that couldn't perform these roles at all. The team was definitely a tricky one to rate though so I hope this doesn't discourage anyone. Instead let it be a lesson in accurately identifying each Pokemon's role and whether you can suggest ways to improve the team without compromising that.

Congrats to our two finalists! For those who didn't make it, once again we sincerely thank you for participating. You did extremely well to get this far. Feel free to ask us for feedback and ways in which you can improve going forward.

 

[IronBullet]

Here's the team for the finals! Credit to Christo. for creating it and writing up the descriptions. Good luck to our finalists, looking forward to a tight contest!

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Heal Block
- Toxic

For my team, I decided I wanted to build around Bronzong - a Bronzong, Florges, Alomomola core to be exact. I was interested in using Bronzong over any other common Steel type because it is really good at countering Nidoqueen/king, a pokemon I usually find myself struggling against a lot. I was also inclined to use Bronzong because it seemed to be the best Fairy type switch-in while paired with Wish and Aromatherapy support. As for the moveset, I decided on Iron Head because of the extra PP it has over Gyro Ball. Heavy Slam was an option, but I did not like the inconsistency of damage to pokemon of different weights. Stealth Rock and Toxic are quite standard, and are usually on all Bronzong. Heal Block was used as my last slot so I could handle bulky setup sweepers like Reuniclus and Snorlax, as my team could not handle them well without it.

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic

Alomomola is a great pokemon on bulkier teams as it is one of the couple reliable counters to Mamoswine, and because it has access to such a powerful Wish. I liked Alomomola on this team in particular because it paired really well next to Bronzong and Florges, due to how reliable of a Fire Resist it is. The moveset is pretty much standard, and Rocky Helmet is used over Leftovers so Beedrill cannot U Turn freely without being punished.

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy

I chose Florges as my Aromatherapy user, Hydreigon counter, and main fighting resistance. A Calm Nature was chosen to better handle strong special attackers, as Bronzong is usually prone to getting whittled down quickly. Calm Mind + Synthesis is used over Wish because I already have an Alomomola able to heal up the team as well as Calm Mind being a great way to limit passiveness.

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Drain Punch

Chesnaught was added on the team to check most offensive Water types, as well as lay up Spikes to pressure the opponent's team. Chesnaught has a main job of countering threats such as SD Crawduant, Sub + DD Gyarados, Suicune, and Choice Banded Krookodile. The moveset is quite standard. Drain Punch is used to provide Chesnaught with a reliable STAB move and Leech Seed adds to its tanking ability.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Haze
- Rapid Spin

Tentacruel was an obvious choice at this point in my teambuilding. I needed a hazard remover, another fighting resist, and a Toxic Spikes absorber. Toxic Spikes were used on my own Tentacruel to complete the hazard stacking combo of Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes. Haze was used as my filler move because it is really useful in getting rid of Suicune/Florges's Calm Mind boosts, which could be very threatening if one of my other counters gets weakened.

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Roost

The final piece to the puzzle was Mega Aerodactyl. Looking at the rest of my team, I was really weak to common threats such as Sub + CM Chandelure, LO Alakazam, and Mega Beedrill. Mega Aerodactyl is great at Pursuit trapping all of the aforementioned threats. Edge-Quake was used as my coverage moves of choice because I found them to be the most reliable together. Roost is used to keep Aerodactyl healthy throughout the match.

 

[IronBullet]

The rates are in, expect the result to be posted shortly! Seeing as it's the finals, apart from announcing the winner we'll also be posting the runner-up's rate, providing feedback to both participants, and giving our overall thoughts on how the tour went.

 

[IronBullet]

Sorry for the delay everyone and thank you for your patience. We've arrived at a decision: I'm happy to announce that the winner of the first UU Team Rating Competition is Sacri'!

Both finalists sent in great rates. Adaam's threat analysis in particular was very impressive and his rate was overall more detailed than Sacri's, but Sacri's suggestions were superior; in fact he provided the exact changes that we were looking for and his reasoning was concise and to the point. Here are both of the rates:

Sacri's rate

Hey Christo, solid looking team you have got there. I honestly don't see any glaring weaknesses, that is why I wont suggest any pokemon change and will rather try to optimize the sets you're using.

• First of all, I definitively think that you should run Wood Hammer over Drain Punch, this is a pretty self explanatory change, Chesnaught is your main Gyarados answer with this team and you clearly need to be able to break the sub. This would also help to pressure many other waters type in the tier such as Feraligatr and Suicune.

• Another mandatory change is running Alomomola with the following spread : 40 HP/252 Def/216 Spedef. Even with the loss of HP, you still counter the same physical threats, as well as being able to take hits easier from special attacker like florges' moonblast for example.

sets

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic


Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Spiky Shield
- Wood Hammer

Others options

• Running a bulkier spread on Aerodactyl would probably fit this team better. I don't exactly know the ideal spread for Bulky Pursuit Aerodactly, I just think that Max HP wont work as any pursuit user has to run some Atk Evs. You could also try to run Taunt or even Crunch to help versus Reuniclus but I think that the moveset you're currently using is better overall.

Hope I helped !

Adaam's rate

It's always hard to build a stall/semi-stall team without copying pif stall, but here it goes:

When building a semi-stall team, we want to have a way to defensively check pretty much every threat in the metagame. Of course, it is impossible to hard counter every single mon in existence, but ideally, we want a semi-reliable way of beating everything. Thus, the best way to rate the team is to outline what are the biggest threats to this team and then recommend changes that will alleviate its issues:

Major Threats:

Moderate Threats:

Starting with by far the biggest threat to the team, we have SubDD Gyarados. The team description has Chesnaught as a counter to it, but without a Grass STAB, it gets to +6 easily and Waterfalls Chesnaught to death. Gyarados find many opportunities to set up too. Ches, Alo, and Bronzong are all fodder, and Florges has to sac itself to prevent setup. Haze Tenta is an incredibly shaky check at best, as it does nothing back and dies to EQ and boosted Bounces.

Fighting types (not surprisingly as they are so diverse) can punch through the team. Some are less threatening, like Cobalion which is checked by Tenta + Chesnaught, but flinches can ruin your day, and if needed Aero can always EQ it. Toxicroak is a massive pain as it comes in for free on both Water types, and it OHKOs the other Fighting resist in Florges. M-Aero is pretty much the only check, but it dies to +2 Sucker after Rocks. Heracross has no switchins (Florges needs to be healthy and it dies to D Facade), and SD BP Lucario just wins after prior damage on Tentacruel.

Shadow Ball Reuni wins on team preview, as it sets up on pretty much everything, and if it runs Focus Blast, Zong needs to be 100% all the time to check it. If paired with a CB Krook and Zong gets trapped, however, its game. Similarly, Alakazam can give it trouble, but its frailty makes it easily Pursuit trapped by M-Aero. Other Psychic types (Azelf, Hoopa, Garde) are threatening since they usually carry Shadow Ball to bypass Bronzong + Florges can check them, but M-Aero makes it so that they don't straight up sweep.

Lastly, Venomoth wins on preview once rocks are up (+1 Sludge Bomb OHKOs M-Aero after Rocks). CroCune can give the team trouble, but Alo + Haze + Leech Seed can do the job. CM Chandy is decently checked by M-Aero, but Specs is a massive pain to switch into, and you have to guess which STAB its clicking. M-Houndoom with Taunt to prevent Alo's Toxic cans set up on a number of things and kill something one by one, although Aero forces it out.

So how do we fix these issues?

To start, Chesnaught needs to be optimized to actually be able to counter Gyarados. Wood Hammer over Drain Punch is a must. A Grass STAB is the only way to break through sub, and Seed Bomb does not break 100% of the time at -1, so Wood Hammer is the better option. Synthesis over Spikes is another change to make to have a more reliable recovery, since recoil from Wood Hammer will wear Ches down fast. Replacing Spikes instead of Leech Seed is recommended to get passive damage on things like Snorlax and Suicune and make them easier to play around. A passive team like this one also allows many opportunities to remove hazards, especially without Sableye to spinblock, so Spikes are not that important. Lastly, Leech Seed lets up be able to touch Coba/Luc without Drain Punch.

M-Aero has no business running max Atk/Max Spe. Things like Sceptile, Beedrill, Crobat, etc are all easily handled, so we can afford to run bulky M-Aero. A spread of 248 HP / 68 Def / 176 SpD / 16 Spe with a Jolly Nature makes Aero incredibly bulky and alleviates so many issues from aforementioned special attackers + SD Sucker Punch Toxicroak. The speed EVs creep Alakazam, and the the bulk lets you comfortably tank a LO Hoopa Psyshock, 2 ScarfDra Hydreigon Dark Pulses (in case Florges goes down), and generally tank hits from the likes of M-Doom, NP Ape, Venomoth, Chandelure, and Azelf.

Earthquake over Toxic is a small change solely to prevent Lucario from setting up on it. BP Lucario is a massive threat, so we want to mitigate all set up opportunities.

ALTERNATIVE OPTION:

Unfortunately, these changes do not stop Pursuit Krook + something like Snorlax/Reuni from running through this team. This cannot be fixed unless we replace Bronzong, which means we need a new Rocker.

Note: The Aero spread change and Chesnaught set change are still recommended.

Stealth Rock over Pursuit gives us a rocker without swapping any other mons and opening new weaknesses. Unfortunately, it loses to the most common spinner in Forry, but thats OK since we get to beat every defogger in the tier with EdgeQuake coverage.

Without Zong, we need a new Steel type to check the things Bronzong did, but one that is not prone to pursuit traps. Ideally, it should somehow check Nido, since out switch ins are looking slim besides Aero. Thus:

>

SD Escav over Bronzong obliterates all the Psychics that currently give you trouble due to Pursuit + Shadow Ball neutrality. SD still lets you check Snorlax decently, and you don't need 100 turns with Bronzong to kill Reuni with Iron Head. Krookodile can still theoretically Pursuit trap you, but the damage done is much less, and who is gonna pursuit a bulky Bug type with a Dark? Escav doesn't counter Nido, but it can pivot into any attack besides EP, deal some chip damage and put it in Aero's EQ range. Drill Run can be run over Pursuit to hid Nido harder as well as Lucario/Cobalion. Here is the set:

Escavalier @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 204 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Pursuit/Drill Run
- Swords Dance

That's all I have! Hope these changes helped

Both participants suggested Wood Hammer on Chesnaught to better deal with Gyarados which was a key change we had in mind, so props for spotting that! Both also suggested making Mega Aerodactyl bulkier to better deal with the likes of Alakazam and Chandelure. However we didn't think the spread suggested by Adaam was optimal as it failed to outspeed Crobat while not packing any Attack EVs - something that is essential for a Pursuit user. Sacri made the same proposition but didn't give a spread at all, so this point was essentially a stale mate. Adaam went on further to propose an optional change of Escavalier over Bronzong which we actually thought was a really cool one at first since it handled Shadow Ball Reuniclus excellently, but then we realised it made the team much weaker to the Nidos and Chandelure since Aero would no longer pack Pursuit. We figured that the fact that Shadow Ball Reuniclus, which admittedly defeats the team single-handedly, is far rarer than the Nidos or Chandelure means that it's something the team just has to live with. After all, no build can cover every single threat in the tier perfectly.

The real difference between the two rates and the key factor in deciding the winner was actually Sacri's suggestion of making Alomomola more specially bulky. Running max HP on Mola is honestly not the most efficient thing to do considering how gigantic its HP stat is. The SpD investment allows Mola to far more effectively take on weaker special attacks like Florges's Moonblast and Scarf Hydreigon's Dark Pulse. While Adaam's change of Earthquake on Bronzong was an interesting and useful option to take on Lucario better, we felt that it wasn't as significant a change for the team as Mola's SpD investment.

It was a tough decision since Adaam made some very good points and we appreciate the effort he went to to discuss viable alternatives over Bronzong, but in the end Sacri's conciseness and effective changes made him the winner. Congratulations man! Great job to Adaam. as well, you definitely proved your mettle throughout this tour and it's no surprise that you're an official rater now bud.

Overall I'm really happy with how the tour has gone since it has uncovered a real gem in Sacri (hope to see you rating more!) and given newcomers experience of rating some tough teams, which has hopefully helped them along the path to becoming better raters. I'd like to thank my co-hosts Christo., Kreme, Shiba and Arifeen for doing a tremendous job, I couldn't have done this without you guys. And of course huge props to all the participants! I hope everyone has enjoyed the first edition of this tour. Look out for more of these in the future :)

I'm leaving the thread open so feel free to post your congratulations and provide your own opinions on the tour. We appreciate any feedback!

 

[feen]

Grats Sacri'

 

[Sun]

grats :3

 

[Adaam]

Grats Sacri, your rates are sick and you should definitely get more active in the RMT forum.

Thanks for hosting this IB and friends, you guys did a great job running this.

 

[LRXC]

Congrats Sacri', and nice job Adaam. Both really great raters and hope to see more activity in the RMT Forum (I might get started there as well) :)

 

[AM]

I saw Arifeens movie the Jungle Book last Friday. I thought his acting was subpar ngl.

 

[Manipulative]

Congrats to both! It was really interesting watching Sacri win with some very impressive rates. Really hope to see you get involved in rating more often, man. And it's always entertaining to read Adaam's rates as well, definitely showcases why he's an otr. Pretty fun competition overall and I'll be looking forward to the next :).

 

[Sacri']

Thanks a lot everyone! This tournament was a pretty great experience and it definitively helped me to get more confident about my rating abilities. I'm really happy that I got to prove myself versus some great raters! Also, I'm really curious about which Aero spread did you guys expect ? I'm pretty sure I saw Christo posting it somewhere some months ago but I couldnt find it back :(
Special shoutouts to the host who all did an amazing job.
See you guys around, expect me to rate more sometimes soon

 

[Adaam]

^To go off of that I thought I should defend my spread (it's good I swear!). I figured Crobat gets dumped on by Aero regardless so creeping it wasn't too important, but I could imagine some Roost shenanigans be played if M-Aero is revealed to be slow and stall out Stone Edges. Anyway, the Defense EVs tank +2 Adamant Sucker after Rocks:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 229-270 (63 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While maximizing SpD to handle a bunch of stuff:

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 195-231 (53.7 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 129-152 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 124-147 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Rocks cannot be up)
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 111-132 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 53.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 176 SpD Mega Aerodactyl: 221-263 (60.8 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (wins 1v1).

Some EVs can definitely be taken out of SpD, since the current investment doesn't hit any specific benchmarks off the top of my head. I suggested this spread cause I remember omfuga posted it in last year's UUPL dump thread, I tried it out and loved it, but I too really wanna know what you guys had in mind.

 

[Christo]

The EV spread we had in mind was something like this:

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Atk / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Roost

This outspeeds crobat while still having enough attack investment to revenge kill pokemon as well as Pursuit trapping. The team relied a lot on revenge killing threats and an EV spread with no attack simply doesn't do the job. The EV spread you suggested is perfectly useable on the Taunt Toxic Fuga set as you mentioned. This however, is not that set. Outspeeding Crobat does matter. Remember, this is a Hazard stacking semi stall, there is no reason to let Crobat have a free Defog before killing it with Stone Edge.

Good job to everyone who participated, and Grats Sacri'. We hope to have another one of these in the future.