Venipede [QC 3/3] Writing Up

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Taken from Mambo (approved by macle)
QC: Obvious Power, The Avalanches, Yagura


Overview
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+ Speed Boost allows it to outspeed opposition.
+ Access to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes.
+ Pretty good defensive typing, x4 resist to fighting and grass
+ Pin Missile with a little bit of luck can hit multiple times to ignore possible Sashes.
+/- Faces competition from other hazard setters such as Dwebble and Pineco, but has a niche of Speed Boost and Endeavour.
- Not very bulky.
- Poor offensive ability.
- Doesn't get Baton Pass.
- Looks depressed all the time.

Hazardous
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name: Hazardous
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Toxic Spikes
move 3: Protect
move 4: Pin Missile
ability: Speed Boost
item: Eviolite
evs: 196 HP / 124 Def / 124 SpD / 60 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
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- Toxic Spikes and Spikes coupled with Speed Boost are the main reason for choosing Venipede, allowing it to lay down at least a few layers of Spikes.
- Toxic Spikes are a rare occurrence in LC, so this is a big draw for using Venipede, it also helps boost the effectiveness of other Pokemon using Venoshock or Hex.
- Protect is used for getting free Speed Boost boosts, and for protection against Fake Out.
- Endeavor can be used toward the end of Venipede's life such as when sash activates to weaken the foe, and leave it where it can be KOed easily, especially with Pin Missile.
- STAB Pin Missile does a fair amount of damage.


Set Details
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- Jolly nature and max Speed EVs allow it to outspeed most Pokemon without needing to protect.
- Max Attack Evs for boosted effectiveness of Pin Missile.
- Other EVs into defence for extra bulk, though they could be left out to get Venipede's HP down to 1 quicker for maximum power Endeavor, if you do this you might as well lower the IVs to 0 as well.


Usage Tips
========

- Venipede is only really good for setting up Spikes and Toxic Spikes
- Although tempting to lead with Venipede, most leads can stop Venipede so if the foe has a counter such as Dwebble save Venipede for mid to late game.
- Protect should be used to gain enough speed to outspeed the foe, and to stop Fake Out.
- Venipede can stack hazards effectively against walls who often fail to deal enough damage to 3/4HKO. Pokemon such as Spritzee, Snubbull, Foongus (Once sleep clause is active), and non bulk up Timburr are examples of Pokemon Venipede can switch in on.
- IT's ideal to save Venipede until all Defoggers/Spinners are gone before hazard stacking.


Team Options
========

- Pokemon that appreciate general wear down such as Zigzagoon, or any other kind of setup sweeper such as, Fletchling, and Timburr also make good teammates.
- Venipede is neutered by Rapid Spinners / Defoggers on the opposition, Pokemon such as Staryu, and especially Drilbur. So Pokemon such as Pumpkaboo and Pawniard make great teammates. Pumpkaboo is a bulky spinblocker, capable of beating both Staryu and Drilbur, while Pawniard can switch in on opponents using Defog, receiving a Defiant boost if they do. Gastly is also another option instead of Pumpkaboo for a spinblocker. Although a frail spinblocker, Gastly benefits greatly from the presence of entry hazards, it can fire off a 130 STAB Venoshock if the opponent is poisoned a thing Venipede can help with by setting up Toxic Spikes.
- More stall oriented Pokemon such as Spritzee, Lickitung, and Hippopotas make good teammates because of the switches they force, so the entry hazard damage will add up while they can recover off stray damage.

Other Options
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- STAB Poison Jab ruins Fairy-Types, OHKOing Cottonee who can encore Venipede into a move and has a chance to 2HKO Spritzee.
- Infestation could be used to trap foes if they are of little threat (and are without U-Turn or Volt Switch), allowing easy set up of Entry Hazards. Although, bulkier Shelmet does that a little more consistently.
- Venipede could run an offensive Life Orb set with a combination of Pin Missile / Protect / Pursuit / Toxic. Poison Jab could be used instead of Toxic, while Steamroller is a cool option over Pin Missile that's consistent and has a flinch chance that benefits from being able to outspeed everything. However, Pin Missile will generally do more damage.
-A set with evs: 236 Atk / 44 Def / 220 Spe could be used with Focus Sash as well.



Checks & Counters
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Hazard Removers - Hazard Removing Pokemon such as, Drilbur, Staryu, and Vullaby counters Venipede's entire existence with Rapid Spin/Defog and threaten it out with their respected attacks.

Flying-types - Flying-types such as Archen and Vullaby can Defog and have Flying STAB to counter Venipede. Fletchling's priority Acrobatics OHKO's Venipede.

Setup Sweepers - Setup Sweepers like Swords Dance Pawniard, Swords Dance Fletching, and other setup sweepers can easily set up on Venipede due to it's weak attack.

Ghost-types - Ghost-types can take Venipedes attacks with ease while Ghost-types such as Gastly can use the opportunity to set up a substitute.
 
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tehy

Banned deucer.
Which sash/sturdy leads does pin missile help you beat? You mention none and i'm not sure there are any which are significantly inconvenienced by its multi-hit properties.

Endeavor doesn't have anything to do with your attack stat

If you're going to mention removing the Def Evs as possible, consider also reducing all defensive IVs to 0 (or whatever is relevant). Might as well right

Tbh i think venipedes more for general weardown than just breaking sturdy/sashes, that said smashers and ziggy prob. appreciate that too.

Ferroseed doesn't learn Rapid Spin or Defog

>no pawniard in team options

Tirtouga doesn't resist rock or psychic

Seeing as you mention hex and venoshock, you could mention hex+venoshock gastly as a teammate. Obv a bit dependent on tspikes staying up to not suck, but pretty sweet if you can. Spinblocks too.

Pjab is cool for taunt cottonee, any other fairy is p.much setup bait (cottonee can encore i guess, that guarantees max layers tho)

OO offensive: i get you're not recommending all 6 moves at once, but there's a good few potential combos and i'm not sure what to use. Sort that out a bit plz.

Stab eq=se rock slide, drilbur is not rock sliding you (flinch chance on a speed boost mon, ya right)

Defog can't stop you from getting 1 layer
 

Corporal Levi

ninjadog of the decade
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I don't think Venipede's set should be a lead set.
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2014-11/leads/lc-1630.txt
Looking at the lead usages, Venipede is limited to a single layer against pretty much everything in the top 15 except for Timburr, Diglett and Ferroseed, and it still usually loses to Ferroseed. In other words, Venipede has horrible lead match-ups.
Now, if you use it mid-game, Venipede can take advantage of its double resistance to Fighting as well as resistances to Fairy and Foongus to find a significant number of opportunities to set up. Venipede's primary role is to set up hazards, and its typing should allow it to adequately take advantage of an Eviolite set, meaning a bulky early/mid game support set might be stronger than the current sashed lead set.
Thoughts?
 
As in old thread I give my little cent, question-like. Could be a SubToxic set an other good option, setting spikes and poisoning straight in shelder?
 
Im leaning towards this Pokemon not having an analyses at this point to be honest. As Corporal Levi says it loses to pretty much every common lead right now. When i investigated that, I found that Venipedes shallow movepool really keeps it from performing any role well. Unless someone has any ideas that opposes this?
 

Corporal Levi

ninjadog of the decade
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I do think venipede deserves an analysis, as it has been used to some success in the past, just not as a lead. Its unique traits allow it to get up hazards fairly reliably against a decent portion of the metagame, which could be useful if its team can properly take advantage of them; however, this portion of the metagame does not include very many popular leads.
 
I definitely think Venipede deserves an analysis. During LCRW2 I used a lead set of Protect/Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Pin Missile to great effect. Will elaborate tomorrow when I'm not on mobile.

EDIT: It is now tomorrow and I am not on mobile, so, as promised, I will proceed to outline how good Venipede is.

Firstly, Venipede functions well against most leads- Mienfoo, for example, is the most popular lead, but it can't do much against Venipede, especially if you Protect first turn (especially since only ~12% of Mienfoo carry Taunt). Surskit lets Venipede get up as many hazards as it wants, as it can't do much versus it. Drilbur is forced to continue spinning after you get up a layer of hazards, leading to 50/50's that don't favorite the mole. Dwebble can beat Venipede with Rock Blast. Timburr can't do much to Venipede outside of Knock Off due to Venipede's 4x resistance to Fighting. Chinchou usually Volt Switches out, but if you Protect first turn you can determine whether or not Chou is scarfed, as well as getting up some hazards. Diglett can set up Stealth Rock, but after that it can't do much to Venipede, since it is outspeed after one turn. Archen can beat it, Defogging away Spikes and setting up its own Stealth Rock. Pineco can't really do much to it, but for that matter Venipede can't do much back. Ferroseed can bring it down to sash after a few speed boosts, but other than that it can't do much. Magnemite can't do much to Venipede, and it can break Sturdy with Pin Missile. Fletchling easily beats it and limits it to a single layer. Pancham can Knock Off but not much outside of that, while it can set up a number of layers. Onix beats it and limits it to one layer. Pawniard can 2HKO Venipede, but it will almost always get two layers up (unless Iron Head flinches), three if Pawniard uses Stealth Rock.

So it can beat more leads than you give it credit for. But that's not the big deal- the big deal is that even if Venipede is limited to a single layer, a single layer of hazards can often change the course of the game. One layer of Toxic Spikes can cripple teams and force switches frequently because of the 12% residual damage taken every turn. This can really hurt balanced and stall teams. One layer of Spikes will do 12% damage to every switchin, something that team archetypes like VoltTurn are worn down much more quickly. All in all, I think Venipede is a hugely underrated Pokemon, because of how game-changing even a single layer of hazards can be.
 
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I definitely believe this needs an analysis and I agree with it being used as a mid game hazard stacker. Implement everything tehy said, change this to reflect being a mid game hazard stacker, and remove mention of being a lead. It could be included in usage tips that if Venipede has a potential good match-up, leading it can be effective. I'll QC this after that :]
 
I'd like more opinions but Levi has already mentioned it and I agree; I think an Eviolite set with EVs in bulk over Atk would be more effective to hazard stack against walls and Venipede's fairly good resists. Protect and TSpikes could be given their own slashes over Endeavor?

Overview: Remove the bit about Mienfoo and Ferroseed, since we're kinda changing this to not be lead oriented.

Usage Tips:
Venipede can stack hazards effectively against walls who often fail to deal enough damage to 3/4HKO. Mention Fairy-types along with the Fighting- and Grass-types.
Ideally Venipede is starting to use Spikes as soon as Defoggers/Spinners are gone.

Team Options:
Really emphasize the Ghost-types for spin blocking and Pawniard to benefit from/discourage Defog!
You'd have to elaborate on Chinchou and Ponyta, it's not really shown why they might be good teammates.

Other Options:
Venoshock+Toxic sounds really bad to me. I think Toxic deserves a mention if you choose to wear down walls rather than stack hazards, but I'm not sure about Venoshock. If other QC could weigh in on this that'd be cool.
Steamroller is a cool option that's consistent and has a flinch chance that benefits from being able to outspeed everything, but Pin Missile will will generally do more damage.

Checks&Counters:
Make hazard removers its own section, as this is the biggest problem with Venipede.
Give Ghost-types its own section as Venipede can't harm them for significant damage. Gastly can be given a specific mention here because it can set-up as well.

Poor bug, always so sad QC 1/3
 
I took a small hiatus, was a little busy with work. However, I applied Obvious Power's changes and this is ready for the next QC.
 

The Avalanches

pokemon tcg
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hey, Jetpack

Mention in the overview that Venipede can face some competition from other hazard setters such as Dwebble and Pineco, however, state that it still has a niche over the two in Speed Boost and Endeavour.

In usage tips, you say that Venipede can switch in on Foongus, but be sure to clarify that it can only do so once Sleep Clause is active.

In Team Options, you should make more clear the difference between Pumpkaboo and Pawniard's roles in preventing the removal of entry hazards. Pumpkaboo is a bulky spinblocker, capable of beating both Staryu and Drilbur, while Pawniard can switch in on opponents using Defog, receiving a Defiant boost if they do. Gastly, although a frail Spinblocker, benifits greatly from the presence of entry hazards.

Mention in Other Options that Poison Jab is a OHKO on Cottonee and a 2HKO on Spritzee. Most Cottonee don't carry taunt, Venipede is more in danger of being encored into Spikes or Protect.

Trapping an opponent to lay entry hazards is good, but mention that the bulkier Shelmet does that a little more consistently.

Looking good, man.

QC 2/3
 
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In the overview you've got "faces competition from other hazard setters such as Dwebble and Pineco" repeated twice.

In team options you should expand a little bit on how Gastly benefits from hazards by adding that it can fire off 130 STAB Venoshock if the opponent is poisoned a thing Venipede can help on doing with setting up Toxic Spikes.

In other options I noticed that Poison Jab has only a 0.4% chance to 2HKO Spritzee, so probably it'd be better to say "it has a chance to 2HKO Spritzee". I also think that a bulky hazards setter set with Eviolite and investment in bulk over Attack is worth mentioning especially with Venipede's good defensive typing.

qc 3/3, gj
 

Corporal Levi

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I still feel as if Eviolite should be used over Focus Sash and a more defensive spread used to better play to Venipede's strengths as an early-mid game hazard stacker with a negative match-up against most common leads. A spread of 196 HP / 124 Def / 124 SpD / 60 Spe with a Jolly nature hits Eviolite numbers and nets Venipede 14 Speed. It allows Venipede to avoid the 2HKOs from Snubbull's Earthquake and Mienfoo's Knock Off, and often the 4HKO from Spritzee's Moonblast, all after Stealth Rock. It also usually allows Venipede to survive Fletchling's Acrobatics from full health, although the sash set can also do that.
 
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