Resource VGC 16: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not really a "simple question" but I just reset a flawless modest kyurem and I wanna use it in the IC. Unfortunately I haven't played the 2016 meta at all and was wondering if anyone has good tips on effective partners/sets, as there seems to be very little out there about it.
 
Not really a "simple question" but I just reset a flawless modest kyurem and I wanna use it in the IC. Unfortunately I haven't played the 2016 meta at all and was wondering if anyone has good tips on effective partners/sets, as there seems to be very little out there about it.
Kyurem-W is a really powerful attacker with LO or Choice Specs. I've run it before with Primal Groudon and tailwind support with Draco Meteor / Ice Beam / Fusion Flare / Protect. I suppose you could also use it with Primal Kyogre to lure in Ferrothorn with Fusion Flare or just wear it down with LO Ice Beam, but I think Groudon is a better partner. Ice typing is super good offensively rigt now, with the only real bulky water being Kyogre (which doesn't have much to hit Kyurem with anyway, especially if paired with Groudon), and the only other Ice resists being stuff like Mawile and Klefki that get demolished by Fusion Flare.
 
Have the 2016 rules taken effect yet? I was under the assumption that it was going to be next season's (after Worlds) format, as I'd be very surprised if TPCI would change the format in the middle of the season, but with the amount of discussion I've seen both on and off of Smogon, I'm inclined to believe that they have in fact taken effect.

Will Winter Regionals use this new format?
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Have the 2016 rules taken effect yet? I was under the assumption that it was going to be next season's (after Worlds) format, as I'd be very surprised if TPCI would change the format in the middle of the season, but with the amount of discussion I've seen both on and off of Smogon, I'm inclined to believe that they have in fact taken effect.

Will Winter Regionals use this new format?
Yes they started January 1st. That is almost always when the rules change
 
Hello there!

Should I keep this Rayquaza?

Rayquaza - #384 (Naive)
HP: 30 - 31
Att: 30 - 31
Def: 30 - 31
SpA: 30 - 31
SpD: 10 - 11
Speed: 30 - 31

Thank in advance. :)
 
Hello there!

Should I keep this Rayquaza?

Rayquaza - #384 (Naive)
HP: 30 - 31
Att: 30 - 31
Def: 30 - 31
SpA: 30 - 31
SpD: 10 - 11
Speed: 30 - 31

Thank in advance. :)
It is difficult to say without knowing which of the IVs are 30 and which are 31, although I would assume you are at the delta episode and can't check? If so then well you just have to hope that speed is 31 and hopefully attack and special attack as well. The special defense is annoying, especially since Mega Rayquaza wants to be able to switch into Eruption and Water Spout from the primals, but honestly unless you for some reason love soft resetting the bastard then I would keep since getting one with basically flawless in the rest and better special defense will probably take a loooong time. So if you are tired of soft resetting, then imo keep. Also for future reference this thread is better suited for these kind of things.
 
Exactly! Okay, then I'll keep it then.

I didn't know where to post and because I need to decide fast as I still have to EV Train my Pokémon for the upcoming tournament (maybe even breed another team), I posted in here and in another thread. Sorry for the mishap.

Thank you very much for the reply and have a nice one! :)
 
And another question:

Would a Trick Room Cresselia without an attacking move still be good to use?
I'm thinking about

Trick Room + Helping Hand + Skill Swap + Magic Coat

because I don't have a secure option against Dark Void Smeargle as my Kangaskhan's Fake Out or Tornadus Prankster Taunt can both be prevented by Quick Guard. I don't need to worry about Taunt as Magic Coat reflects that back as well.
Most Cresselia I've seen either have Ice Beam or Psychic, but they're both quite weak anyway so I don't really see the use of it except for maybe breaking a Sash.
 
The problem with having no attacks is that Cress becomes worthless if you're taunted. You also have no chance to win a 1v1 if you can't hit your opponent.
 
The problem with having no attacks is that Cress becomes worthless if you're taunted. You also have no chance to win a 1v1 if you can't hit your opponent.
But I can Magic Coat a Taunt when I read my enemy correctly? I don't know... I'm unsure because I've never ever seen a set without an attacking move, but also none with Magic Coat? And as I won't invest EVs in Cresselia's Special Attack it won't do much damage in a 1 vs. 1 anyway I suppose?
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
@Re: Magic Coat Cresselia

It's still not a reliable option against Smeargle because Smeargle could easily Fake Out the other guy and Xerneas can get off a free Geomancy. Experienced players who see the opponent lead with Cresselia against Smeargle are often suspicious about the possibility of Lum Berry or Magic Coat (this is sometimes made more obvious when they also send out a partner that is vulnerable to Smeargle), and look for a more consistent route against them.

As for Ice Beam's purpose - it does significant damage to Mega Salamence, Landorus-T, and Rayquaza (w/o Delta Stream active). It works great when Groudon is Cresselia's partner, as these mons can check Groudon but now have to fear for the possible Ice Beam from Cress.
 
Aaaargh, this is a little bit frustrating. I would like to use a Trick Room team for the upcoming online tournament and don't have anything against the combination of Smeargle's Dark Void + Quick Guard. I could use a Lum Berry on Cresselia, but then it can get taunted. If I use Mental Herb, Dark Void is a problem... How am I suppose to set up Trick Room?! I really hate Dark Void! >:(
 
Aaaargh, this is a little bit frustrating. I would like to use a Trick Room team for the upcoming online tournament and don't have anything against the combination of Smeargle's Dark Void + Quick Guard. I could use a Lum Berry on Cresselia, but then it can get taunted. If I use Mental Herb, Dark Void is a problem... How am I suppose to set up Trick Room?! I really hate Dark Void! >:(
- Prankster Safeguard, fuck Smeargle. Whimsicott can even follow up with Encore to force it to switch. I personally run Safeguard Klefki.
- Meowstic has a fast Fake Out; Quick Guard is retardely the same priority so the can't block unless they have a faster Fake Out, Quick Guard, or an opposing Quick Guard Meowstic (because Prankster). Can also set TR itself if desired.
- Trick Room Espeon, suicide setup of TR like Gengar, but with Magic Bounce.
- Feint breaks Quick Guard. Thundy/Whimsicott breaks Smeargle. Hitmontop, AV Hariyama, Scizor, Raichu, Flygon, there's a few decent users.
- Lum Berry Aromatisse is fat, hard to OHKO, Aroma Veil is a Taunt / Encore immunity for the whole team, and Lum Berry stops DV/Spore. Just Protect against Fake Out. Buffed by Xerneas, and also stops Crobat from Taunting it.

and in the "retarded and shouldn't be used" category:

- Slowbro / Slowking have Oblivious for Taunt immunity, and again are hard to KO.
- Hypno has Inner Focus and Insomnia; take your pick between Fake Out immunity or Sleep immunity.
- Reuniclus has Magic Guard + Flame Orb for status immunity and can function while Taunted.

If it isn't Perish Song, Titan always has least 3+ ways to counter something, even if at least 2/3rds of ideas are just plain stupid.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Aaaargh, this is a little bit frustrating. I would like to use a Trick Room team for the upcoming online tournament and don't have anything against the combination of Smeargle's Dark Void + Quick Guard. I could use a Lum Berry on Cresselia, but then it can get taunted. If I use Mental Herb, Dark Void is a problem... How am I suppose to set up Trick Room?! I really hate Dark Void! >:(
One of the important things to keep in mind against smeargle + quick guard is that your opponent has very little offensive presence while they use it. If smeargle is sash then you can do a whole bunch of damage before dark void hits. If it's scarf, then it's very likely to switch out after dark voiding, giving you free momentum or a free turn to shake off sleep.

- Prankster Safeguard, fuck Smeargle. Whimsicott can even follow up with Encore to force it to switch. I personally run Safeguard Klefki.
- Meowstic has a fast Fake Out; Quick Guard is retardely the same priority so the can't block unless they have a faster Fake Out, Quick Guard, or an opposing Quick Guard Meowstic (because Prankster). Can also set TR itself if desired.
- Trick Room Espeon, suicide setup of TR like Gengar, but with Magic Bounce.
- Feint breaks Quick Guard. Thundy/Whimsicott breaks Smeargle. Hitmontop, AV Hariyama, Scizor, Raichu, Flygon, there's a few decent users.
- Lum Berry Aromatisse is fat, hard to OHKO, Aroma Veil is a Taunt / Encore immunity for the whole team, and Lum Berry stops DV/Spore. Just Protect against Fake Out. Buffed by Xerneas, and also stops Crobat from Taunting it.

and in the "retarded and shouldn't be used" category:

- Slowbro / Slowking have Oblivious for Taunt immunity, and again are hard to KO.
- Hypno has Inner Focus and Insomnia; take your pick between Fake Out immunity or Sleep immunity.
- Reuniclus has Magic Guard + Flame Orb for status immunity and can function while Taunted.

If it isn't Perish Song, Titan always has least 3+ ways to counter something, even if at least 2/3rds of ideas are just plain stupid.
Crafty Shield on klefki is also an option.
 
- Prankster Safeguard, fuck Smeargle. Whimsicott can even follow up with Encore to force it to switch. I personally run Safeguard Klefki.
- Meowstic has a fast Fake Out; Quick Guard is retardely the same priority so the can't block unless they have a faster Fake Out, Quick Guard, or an opposing Quick Guard Meowstic (because Prankster). Can also set TR itself if desired.
- Trick Room Espeon, suicide setup of TR like Gengar, but with Magic Bounce.
- Feint breaks Quick Guard. Thundy/Whimsicott breaks Smeargle. Hitmontop, AV Hariyama, Scizor, Raichu, Flygon, there's a few decent users.
- Lum Berry Aromatisse is fat, hard to OHKO, Aroma Veil is a Taunt / Encore immunity for the whole team, and Lum Berry stops DV/Spore. Just Protect against Fake Out. Buffed by Xerneas, and also stops Crobat from Taunting it.

and in the "retarded and shouldn't be used" category:

- Slowbro / Slowking have Oblivious for Taunt immunity, and again are hard to KO.
- Hypno has Inner Focus and Insomnia; take your pick between Fake Out immunity or Sleep immunity.
- Reuniclus has Magic Guard + Flame Orb for status immunity and can function while Taunted.

If it isn't Perish Song, Titan always has least 3+ ways to counter something, even if at least 2/3rds of ideas are just plain stupid.
Woah, didn't think of Feint! I've decided to either go for Feint or Crafty Shield Klefki.
Meowstic, Espeon and Aromatisse aren't an option, because I already have Dialga as a second Trick Room setter and think that two should be more than enough. Replacing either of them would only make me rethink my whole team and I don't have that much time anymore, haha.

One of the important things to keep in mind against smeargle + quick guard is that your opponent has very little offensive presence while they use it. If smeargle is sash then you can do a whole bunch of damage before dark void hits. If it's scarf, then it's very likely to switch out after dark voiding, giving you free momentum or a free turn to shake off sleep.



Crafty Shield on klefki is also an option.
Yes, that's true. But it almost completely shuts me down because my team mainly relies on Trick Room... I guess most teams are shut down without a counter against Dark Void. My only other option would be a Tornadus setting up Tailwind, but if the opponent manages to set Tailwind up as well... I'm out. -_-'

Love the idea of Crafty Shield Klefki. I will either got for that or for a Feint user as ProjectTitan113 proposed.

Thanks everybody for your replies!
 
One of the important things to keep in mind against smeargle + quick guard is that your opponent has very little offensive presence while they use it. If smeargle is sash then you can do a whole bunch of damage before dark void hits. If it's scarf, then it's very likely to switch out after dark voiding, giving you free momentum or a free turn to shake off sleep.

Crafty Shield on klefki is also an option.
> Free momentum = foe gets a free switch in for the Smeargle slot + free turn on the ally slot while you probably do nothing?
Sash, yes, you can double target it: right into Spiky Shield, while Xern gets a free Geomancy. Really, the only offensive counter I ever had against Sash and Scarf Smeargle was Lum Berry Dual Chop Garchomp, and that obviously isn't going too far in VGC16.

Oh I know; I'm pretty sure I was the person who first mentioned Crafty Shield's usefulness on Klefki/Smeargle a while back. Main reason I suggested Safeguard over Crafty Shield is duration: Safeguard completely halts Dark Void for 5 turns, even if Klefki is KO'd/switches out. Crafty Shield blocks it, yes, but only for as long as Klefki is on the field spamming it. Safeguard lets you set up a saftey blanket and start tossing out Thunder Wave/Swagger/Foul Play/Protect/etc. It is by no means bad, but for the specific purpose of blocking Dark Void, Safeguard is better unless facing a faster Prankster Taunt mon + Smeargle lead. :P

Feint is pretty useful though, and invariably eliminates Quick Guard among a few other things. Glad you liked it peatzaboy :3
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
> Free momentum = foe gets a free switch in for the Smeargle slot + free turn on the ally slot while you probably do nothing?
Sash, yes, you can double target it: right into Spiky Shield, while Xern gets a free Geomancy. Really, the only offensive counter I ever had against Sash and Scarf Smeargle was Lum Berry Dual Chop Garchomp, and that obviously isn't going too far in VGC16.
I was talking about smeargle + quick guard, not smeargle + xerneas. The latter is a different situation and so obviously requires a different strategy (like with fake out or something)
 
I was talking about smeargle + quick guard, not smeargle + xerneas. The latter is a different situation and so obviously requires a different strategy (like with fake out or something)
Oh, then yes, Quick Guard + Smeargle you can double up on Smeargle and not give shit even if it Spiky Shields. :P
 
Hello to everyone! Lately I saw in 5-6 teams an interesting (at least for me lol) core of Xerneas/Rayquaza-Mega.What benefits actually has this core?What they do to support each other exactly?I'm asking specifically to everyone that had experience with this core but also to more expert people that can find pros and cons :)
Thanks a lot!
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Hello to everyone! Lately I saw in 5-6 teams an interesting (at least for me lol) core of Xerneas/Rayquaza-Mega.What benefits actually has this core?What they do to support each other exactly?I'm asking specifically to everyone that had experience with this core but also to more expert people that can find pros and cons :)
Thanks a lot!
Special Mega Rayquaza checks PDon and Mawile pretty well. Physical Rayquaza benefits from the same support Xerneas does (like redirection). A set up Xerneas can also help MRay get more free turns to set up Swords Dances.
 
Special Mega Rayquaza checks PDon and Mawile pretty well. Physical Rayquaza benefits from the same support Xerneas does (like redirection). A set up Xerneas can also help MRay get more free turns to set up Swords Dances.
Thanks for your answer :)
If you go for specially based Ray and GeoXern how could I support those two?
Thanks :)
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Thanks for your answer :)
If you go for specially based Ray and GeoXern how could I support those two?
Thanks :)
Stuff like redirection still benefits both. You'll need support to stop Trick Room (especially Mega Mawile), Xerneas, and Smeargle. Crobat with a Lum Berry could be nice for Tailwind and Taunting things.
 
Two questions:

Is Mega Rayquaza allowed in VGC? Because I haven't seen anything saying no, but it makes me wonder why more people aren't pairing Tailwind Prankster and Mega Ray.

And are there any teams out so far using the new legal legends with Mega Salamence/Xerneas core?
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Two questions:

Is Mega Rayquaza allowed in VGC? Because I haven't seen anything saying no, but it makes me wonder why more people aren't pairing Tailwind Prankster and Mega Ray.

And are there any teams out so far using the new legal legends with Mega Salamence/Xerneas core?
Mega Rayquaza is legal just not as good as some people thought it would be before they played the format. It's still good though.

There's a lot of teams that use both Xerneas and Salamence but they usually aren't considered the core.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Two questions:

Is Mega Rayquaza allowed in VGC? Because I haven't seen anything saying no, but it makes me wonder why more people aren't pairing Tailwind Prankster and Mega Ray.

And are there any teams out so far using the new legal legends with Mega Salamence/Xerneas core?
It's still great, but it's not as overpowering as it is in singles. Its main role is for support on rain teams to stop pdon from nullifying water attacks, as well as just having good synergy with kyogre, having strong attacks, and being a good secondary mega.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top