VGC17 NineSlash Hail Sweep Core Team Help?

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SnortopsYT

SnortopsYT

Yooooo, what's up everybody, it's ya boi Snortops here, back at it again with a NineSlash Hail Sweep team! Anyways, since I'm terrible at intros, let's get rooooooooooooiiiiiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhhhhttttttt into the team!

Sandslash-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Icicle Crash
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin

One of the main members of my core. Plays very physically. Also my hazard removal.

Ninetales-Alola @ Eject Button
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Shard
- Moonblast
- Toxic
- Protect

My hail setup. I run the eject button to get the hail in, and me out. Also functions as support poke.

Primarina @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Moonblast
- Sparkling Aria
- Psychic

Meant to cover for NineSlashe's prominent fight and ground weaknesses.

Nihilego @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Power Gem
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt

Really just a special attacker, since I lean toward physical attackers too much. Also water coverage.

Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Minimize
- Sludge Bomb
- Dark Pulse
- Toxic

Troll Muk. Used to stall out defensive mons.

Marowak-Alola @ Focus Sash
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

My rock set up. Kind of a one and done kind of pokemon. Also stone edge

(Sorry these descriptions are TERRIBLE, I hate writing those.)

Leave suggestions down below!

~Snortops
 
HajimeDess

HajimeDess

Nihilego @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Power Gem
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt


with how big tapus are you should really put a poison stab on her.
 
ElementOfSmash

ElementOfSmash

So I assume you're looking at this core after Jorge Bravo's 1st place finish at the Peru Premier.

First, let's preface this by saying that entry hazards are not nearly as relevant in VGC as they are in OU. Especially with B6U4, there aren't as many switches, and you won't get nearly as much mileage out of them as you might think.
Toxic Spikes MAY be an exception, depending on how things shape up, but I'm pretty on the fence on that one.

With that out of the way, lets look at the pokemon.

Pointedly, Rapid Spin is going to be a dead move. You don't need it. Instead, probably go with Iron Head. It's a STAB Steel move that can wriggety-wreck in the Tapu heavy meta.

For Ninetails, I think you are severely underestimating this mon. Blizzard sans-accuracy in hail is huge. It also has access to Icy Wind, which can be great speed control; Freeze Dry, which hits Water mons super effectively; and Aurora Veil, which halves all damage coming in for your entire team. I think ANT is going to be an underwhelming support for you. You really need to take advantage of her potential.

Primarina? Unless you're running trick room, I don't think this is a good choice. She's very slow, and there are way better options if you're looking for water mons, Milo is a much better choice. If you're looking for Fighting/Ground checks...oh look. You have Ninetails. Hits both of those super effectively. Suboptimal mon that doesn't contribute to the team.

The Nihilego set isn't awful. Definitely want that STAB Sludge Bomb for Tapus. Not sure how I feel about Specs on her. Assault Vest might be a better choice for survivability, but that's just some speculation on my part.

Muks a p good tank. Only takes SE damage from Ground. Not much to say about this one.

Marowak. Ok, back to point 1. You do not need Stealth Rock. Also, why Flamethrower? He has access to Flare Blitz, which is a physical move. Honestly, I'd recommend the standard Alolan-Wak build.
Code: 
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Protect
Overall, I think your core needs work, and then the mons around it need to be reassessed.
 
RebornFX

RebornFX

To be perfectly frank, there's too man
ElementOfSmash said:
So I assume you're looking at this core after Jorge Bravo's 1st place finish at the Peru Premier.

First, let's preface this by saying that entry hazards are not nearly as relevant in VGC as they are in OU. Especially with B6U4, there aren't as many switches, and you won't get nearly as much mileage out of them as you might think.
Toxic Spikes MAY be an exception, depending on how things shape up, but I'm pretty on the fence on that one.

With that out of the way, lets look at the pokemon.

Pointedly, Rapid Spin is going to be a dead move. You don't need it. Instead, probably go with Iron Head. It's a STAB Steel move that can wriggety-wreck in the Tapu heavy meta.

For Ninetails, I think you are severely underestimating this mon. Blizzard sans-accuracy in hail is huge. It also has access to Icy Wind, which can be great speed control; Freeze Dry, which hits Water mons super effectively; and Aurora Veil, which halves all damage coming in for your entire team. I think ANT is going to be an underwhelming support for you. You really need to take advantage of her potential.

Primarina? Unless you're running trick room, I don't think this is a good choice. She's very slow, and there are way better options if you're looking for water mons, Milo is a much better choice. If you're looking for Fighting/Ground checks...oh look. You have Ninetails. Hits both of those super effectively. Suboptimal mon that doesn't contribute to the team.

The Nihilego set isn't awful. Definitely want that STAB Sludge Bomb for Tapus. Not sure how I feel about Specs on her. Assault Vest might be a better choice for survivability, but that's just some speculation on my part.

Muks a p good tank. Only takes SE damage from Ground. Not much to say about this one.

Marowak. Ok, back to point 1. You do not need Stealth Rock. Also, why Flamethrower? He has access to Flare Blitz, which is a physical move. Honestly, I'd recommend the standard Alolan-Wak build.
Code: 
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Protect
Overall, I think your core needs work, and then the mons around it need to be reassessed.
Click to expand...
Just to be more specific on what is wrong that hasn't been mentioned here. You lack Protect on 5/6 of your Pokemon, when it is pretty much a staple on any Pokemon not running a choiced set, particularly bulky/support role, or suicide lead. Other than that it's a safe bet that Protect will be more useful than any other move it has available in a doubles format.

Hazards are, as mentioned above, VERY uncommon. Matches aren't long enough (by the fact that there are only 4 Pokemon used on each side per battle and per turn twice as many moves are used compared to singles) for the turn of setup to be worth it. I'm almost certain the same will be true about Toxic Spikes.

Your sets seem random. You run random mixed sets for no reason, max speed on naturally slow bulky Pokemon, no speed on naturally fast offensive Pokemon and stack a lo of weaknesses without covering them with resistances/checks.

Your entire team gets walled by water types such as Gyarados, Milotic, Pelipper, Araquanid etc. You do have Thunderbolt on Nihilego, but relying on a water weak Pokemon to be your only water check, to lock itself into a non-STAB Tbolt, to outspeed when it isn't max speed, your opponent not to protect their water type scouting for the tbolt or simply to protect it from a Power Gem or to switch out to get better positioning or to reset intimidate in the case of Gyarados. There are many very usable mons that just destroy waters while still fucntioning in the meta, I would suggest replacing a member with one of these.

Minimize Muk is a gimmick. I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying it's not consistent, and without the proper support will probably just be deadweight.

Honestly you'd be better off watching some videos from some experienced VGC players about teambuilding and actual battles to see what is common in the metagame and then restarting from scratch (with your initial hail core if you'd like). For proper sets I'd recommend Wolfe Glick's channel. He explains the sets very well, showing calcs as to what the EVs allow the mon to live and what kind of damage you can expect to be dealing (and if you couldn't tell from the thumbnails he's the 2016 world champ so he knows what he's talking about haha).
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9OZkS1Mhl5UvKSiPrYqsxg
And secondly Cybertron. He has made a really amazing teambuilding video recently and it explains a lot of the things that I haven't included in this response but definitely apply to this team, and things to just keep in mind whenever you are making a team.
Finally, Kyle Cole has some nice VGC sets and showdown lives, including sets for your hail core and explanations.
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheKylecol3

Hope this helped.
 
Project_Mars

Project_Mars

Also something that people seem to be ignoring: you have special moves on Muk, who has a Special Attack of 65 when you are completely ignoring its much higher 105 attack. Gunk Shot/Poison Jab and Knock Off are great moves.
 
RebornFX

RebornFX

PlatinumBlad3 said:
No offense, but your team is beyond help. I'm amazed ElementOfSmash and RebornFX got this team to even be adequate.
Click to expand...
I didn't change anything, I just said to start from scratch.

And Mars, I was going to mention it but I figured it would be better for him to find the issues with the sets himself from watching those youtuber's content. I could have pointed out the random mixed Ninetails with Toxic which also isn't particularly viable especially on frail mons, and the random Aqua Jet Primarina.

SnortopsYT I would recommend starting with a team framework first that covers the metagame well and synergises together, making sure that particular members aren't simply outclassed by alternatives. Then plug in standard sets for each of them. Theorymon a little bit to see if there are any changes to these sets that would improve your matchup versus something threatening without hurting other matchups. Then test. As long as you have a good justification for something non standard and you feel comfortable fighting anything in the metagame and certain pokemon that function well together you should be alright. The format isn't fully developed yet so what is standard isn't as set in stone as it will be but the sets from those youtubers are a good place to start.
 
SnortopsYT

SnortopsYT

Alright, since I started quite a bit of controversy, I just want to state the following:

1. I didn't know that this team had already been popularized, it was suggested to me by a friend

2. The many flaws are due to my lack of experience with the current meta and competitive battling in general

3. I do plan on scraping the team and rebuilding it from the ground up, and researching a bit more. I will make a new thread when that occurs.

~Snortops
 
Project_Mars

Project_Mars

If i could make a suggestion: do try out your next team in a few battles, somewhere between five and ten, and make notes of how the team does. This way you should be able to figure out what is working and what isn't for better feedback.
 
ElementOfSmash

ElementOfSmash

SnortopsYT said:
Alright, since I started quite a bit of controversy, I just want to state the following:

1. I didn't know that this team had already been popularized, it was suggested to me by a friend

2. The many flaws are due to my lack of experience with the current meta and competitive battling in general

3. I do plan on scraping the team and rebuilding it from the ground up, and researching a bit more. I will make a new thread when that occurs.

~Snortops
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say there was any controversy, per se. There's just...a lot of work to be done. Which isn't a bad thing. I think you'll learn more building and rebuilding teams than you would going into the ladder blind.
However, that's not to say field testing isn't good. Project_Mars's suggestion is absolutely on point.

Don't give up, dude! Just be willing to learn, put in a little time and a little effort, and a lot of thought.

Cheers!
 
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