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Project Victim Of The Week [VoTW #27 - Zygarde / Zygarde-Complete]

Discussion in 'Battle Spot Singles' started by dogknees, Jan 26, 2017.

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  1. ThickFatAzumarill

    ThickFatAzumarill

    Joined:
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    Voting for Feesh Squad's Mega Scizor

    I used M-Scizor for a while during earlier seasons and it's great at walling Megagross + Lele while getting momentum with U-turn on a predicted switch to a check. Overall solid mon, but it loses against common threats such as Celesteela, Fire Blast Mega Mence, Nasty Plot Z-Move Thundy, Volc and the Zards.
    Feesh Squad and dogknees like this.
  2. Vif-Argent

    Vif-Argent

    Joined:
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    Squad's Mega Scizor

    And nothing else matters... *singing*
    Feesh Squad and dogknees like this.
  3. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Battle Spot Leader

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    I don't get the Mega Scizor hype. In my opinion, Scizor isn't a good pokemon to start with as there are better U-turners to choose from, and Bullet Punch (aka its main stab) got nerfed by Lele's existence and so it suffers a similar fate to Azumarill. SD + Roost + STABs gets walled by so many things in the meta, and 3 attacks + Roost is weak and an overall worse set than SD. Thief is also a bad move, yeah the Technician boost is cute, but I firmly believe that you should only use Knock Off unless you're restricted to breeding in SM and can't use tutors. I mean maybe if you could steal items like Bug Bite does and consume berries when using Thief it would be usable, but it's literally just a 90 bp dark move.

    Looking at Feesh Squad's set he's slashed SD and Thief. This means you have to either SD and break through with Bullet Punch, or U-turn on them until they die, or you just Thief them but end up with a weak Scizor to use in general. I honestly just don't see the appeal in this. Every time you SD is a chance for them to boost with Meteor Mash or flinch / freeze / paralyze you with other moves, and they could even be a Sub Hone Claws set and set up alongside you.

    That being said, if it was SD with Knock Off instead of U-turn then I'd be more tempted to vote for it, but I have to go with something else.

    Aegislash can switch in on any move from Metagross exept Earthquake and simply bop it. It also threatens all of Metagross's common partners except Poygon2 with Z Shadow Ball. Weakness Policy and SubToxic are also really good, but Ghostium is fine so I'm voting for The Squash
  4. Moose And Goose

    Moose And Goose

    Joined:
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    I'm going to vote for Lionyx's zard-X. Zard seems to work pretty well against metagross, and unlike scizor metagross might stay in long enough to get crippled by willow wisp due to the mind games that zard puts on the table.
    cant say and dogknees like this.
  5. dogknees

    dogknees

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
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    340
    Voting for ThickFatAzumarill's Porygon2: I can't not pick the digital duck. Checks every variant of metagross, counter every variant that doesn't carry hammer arm. Really solid providing a 2hok with foul play and simply recovering on anything else. Also does well vs a lot of other physical threats like mimikyu, zard-x, excadrill and lando. Trick room is also really cool here if you want a semi tr team or just want it there to set and screw over faster offensive mons

    I'm going to try and do this every week if possible starting now, but here's why I didn't pick any of the other options. Keep in mind that I'm also voting based of metagame performance, since that's just as important as combating the current victim of the week! (I promise these will eventually get better)

    Feesh Squad's Mega-Scizor: Yeah, It's a hard metagross counter. Outside of that though, It's really just underwhelming in the current meta. cant say pretty much summed up the bulk of what I was going to mention, but in addition to that there really are a whole lot of better megas out there to pick from. Even on a double mega team, sciz is just really not that great. On paper it's cool, not so much in reality

    Chemcoop's Dugtrio: Cool meme dude, ngl. I love this thing in ou, but not so much bss. Takes a z move, hard to get in (pretty much needs some godly plays or 1-2 slow pivots to back it up, or sacking something else) and just kinda sucks. But nonetheless, everyone loves a good meme, so you win the meme submission if there were one :P

    Lionyx's Mega-Charizard-X: I really like this as well, though my biggest problem with it would be getting a safe mega evolution. The only two moves you can safely come in on are bullet punch and earthquake. Mash surprisingly does a fair chunk and has the possible +1 attack behind it, so not the safest choice. For me, p2 does a very similar job and is a lot safer, so zard-x barely misses out unfortunately

    The Squash's Aegislash: Was tempted to vote for this as well. Comes in on anything that isn't earthquake and gets an easy ohko. Also a perfect check. Only reason I didn't pick this is simply that I like to use p2 more. Nothing at all wrong with the submission, just not my cup of tea. I would have personally done a weakness policy set which is a super nice lure and still destroys majority of the meta lol

    Vif-Argent's Volcarona: MAN I WAS SO EXCITED WHEN YOU RESERVED THIS, but you lowkey blew it :x There was so much potential for a bulky flame body set which takes complete advantage of metagross and easily sets up (let's be real, setting up on metagross is no easy feat). Unfortunately you went with the standard offensive, which is why I didn't vote for this. I would have voted for a bulky set in a heartbeat. Bulky is just so much better for metagross, man I wish you posted that instead lmao

    BlizzardHero's Bronzong: Okay yeah, another hard metagros counter. Convert my scizor statement over to bronzong (minus the mega stuff) and you have my reasoning. Cool mon, does the job, but not that great in the current meta unfortunately

    Solerme's Gastrodon: I like it. Nice anti-meta mon, can be placed into some really good matchups, and also some really horrible ones at that. Does the job perfectly with metagross, though it's a little too inconsistent for my liking

    Kanono90's Mega-Steelix: I mean... well yeah, it destroys it. I would have put rocks on this set, given how easily you force out metagross and set up rocks. Unfortunately, viability is what holds this mon back for me

    3heartschall's Mega-Gengar: Well, we've got no viability problems here of course. What I really don't get is that defensive investment. I get that it lives a burnt metagross zen headbutt followed by bullet punch, but in the meantime you're putting yourself at 193 speed, which makes you no longer tie with koko and other mega-gengar, while making you slower than +1 adamant blaziken, +1 adamant gyarados-mega, and also scarf chandelure (though not as relevant). I'm assuming your nature is timid, since that wasn't specified :x But yeah, a standard bulky set would have drawn me much closer to voting for this. An offensive set as a check would have been cool too. Either way, nice submission, but not quite the kind of mega-gengar I'd be using

    GateCreeper's Mega-Salamence: Gotta admit that it does the job, but not really all too great at all outside of stall so not really much else for me to say here

    Fire Fist Ace's Hippowdon: Now this is the kind of creativity I could get around. Even without curse, It makes for a really great counter which doesn't struggle much either with other physical threats. Same deal with aegislash, only reason I didn't pick this is because p2 is GOAT
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
    ThickFatAzumarill and RNGIsFatal like this.
  6. GateCreeper

    GateCreeper

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2014
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    202
    Voting for Lionyx's Mega Charizard X. Mindgames are a very notable thing to mention here, as the player may assume that Mega Metagross can just outspeed you and KO with Zen Headbutt/Thunder Punch/Rock Slide if you're Zard Y, only for Zard-X to tank a hit and cripple it for the rest of the match with a burn. Even if the player suspects you're Zard X, Metagross will likely still have a hard time dealing with it.

    Was hoping to see something cool like Scarf Volcarona from the person who nominated it which would definitely get my vote, but they went with Quiver Dance instead :/
    dogknees likes this.
  7. dogknees

    dogknees

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    Congratulations to Feesh Squad for winning VoTW 23 (Mega-Metagross) with your submissions of Mega-Scizor! Your post will be logged into the archive.
    Victim of the week #24 - Gliscor

    [​IMG]

    For me, Gliscor is just one of those mons. Generally my teams are naturally ready for it, but can still cause some major problems depending on the set. While it only ranks in at #42 on the usage, statistics from an only 2000+ friendly comp had Gliscor at #6 in usage, which definitely says something. Let's have a look at Gliscor as a mon. Typing gives you both a solid Ground and Electric switch, though does harness a 4x Ice weakness with it. Poison Heal is obviously what makes Gliscor shine, granting a technical immunity to any other status once set, whilst also holding an item which nothing else really wants so there's a lot more room to play around with what items your other mons hold. Bulk of 75 / 125 / 75 lets gliscor sponge physical hits pretty easily and a good majority of special hits as well. Base 95 speed is great, allowing Gliscor to outspeed pretty much any other defensive threat and pressure them heavily with Guillotine, Toxic, and possibly even Taunt. Can also very easily sub on anything that can't break it and roost up. While mostly common on stall teams, Gliscor does also fit in on variants of fat Balance. So, how do you deal with Gliscor?

    Submissions are open and will be closed in four days from now. Best of luck everyone!
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  8. Jhon

    Jhon Someday in the Rain
    is a Pre-Contributor
    BSS Tour Champion

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    [​IMG]
    Cloyster @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Skill Link
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Ice Shard
    - Shell Smash

    Icicle Spear will KO it regardless of sub.
    Shell Smash is there if you want to setup on the predicted switch out.
    Sash will stop a Guillotine from wiping you before anything happens.
  9. ThickFatAzumarill

    ThickFatAzumarill

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    168
    [​IMG]
    Primarina @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Torrent
    Level: 50
    EVs: 156 HP / 100 Def / 252 SpA
    Modest Nature
    - Sparkling Aria
    - Moonblast
    - Perish Song
    - Aqua Jet

    Sparkling Aria isn't useful only for Oceanic Operetta, it also bypasses sub. It's a guaranteed OHKO on the flying scorpion-bat, and the Focus Sash is there just in case Gliscor hits a Guillotine against our singing seal friend.
    dogknees and 3heartschall like this.
  10. Steel With It

    Steel With It

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2014
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    [​IMG]

    Aegislash @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Atk
    Quiet Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Flash Cannon
    - Shadow Sneak
    - King's Shield

    Immune to Guillotine, Toxic and Earthquake (as long as its Balloon is intact) - most Gliscor variants flat-out can't touch Aegislash. Even the occasional Knock Off doesn't help it much, since you can simply neuter its Attack with King's Shield. In return, either Shadow Ball or Flash Cannon safely 2HKOs it.

    252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 106-126 (58.5 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
    The Squash and dogknees like this.
  11. Fire Fist Ace

    Fire Fist Ace

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2014
    Messages:
    137
    [​IMG]
    Avalugg @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature
    - Avalanche
    - Recover
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    The phat wall of ice that needs no introduction. It completely hard counters any and all Guillotine variants. Swords Dance variants just aren't gonna break the ice here pun totally not intended due to that thicc physically defensive booty, and Toxic versions will fold to Avalanche before it can live for a second turn.

    Even if it luckily managed to do like a +6 crit SE Z-move onto Avalugg, it prolly wouldn't even matter due to Sturdy

    Also blah blah blah, checks other common physical attackers like Lando-T, Garchomp, Tapu Bulu, MegaMence, Mega Kang and whatnot, etc etc.

    0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 196-232 (107.6 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    dogknees likes this.
  12. cant say

    cant say Banned juicer.
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Battle Spot Leader

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    The thing with Gliscor is that it's more often than not used on Stall teams, so having something that can put in work against things like Toxapex, Chansey, Mega Gengar, and even Porygon2 is really good. So i'm nominating:

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 44 HP / 212 Atk / 252 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Icicle Spear
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Fissure

    Anything with Icicle Spear scares most Gliscor out at team preview, but if they bring it you just click spear and win. The rest of the set doesn't help against Gliscor in any way, but does against common Gliscor cores (ie: all the thing I listed above). Only thing this doesn't like is Skarmory.
  13. Vif-Argent

    Vif-Argent

    Joined:
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    [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet / Leftlovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - Stealth Rock / Toxic
    - Whirlwind
    - Drill Peck / Iron Head / Taunt

    Skarmory doesn't care about EQ and Toxic by its typing and Guillotine by its ability. Set up Rocks and spamming Whirlwind is the way to go for one of the best PhDef mon. Roost for recovery and reactivate Sturdy. Losing Flying-type with Roost makes it weak to EQ but it loses less than 50% of its health :
    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 62-74 (36 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    Don't use Skarmory STABs (0 Atk Skarmory Drill Peck / Iron Head vs. 228 HP / 68+ Def Gliscor: 27-33 (15 - 18.4%)). Taunt is the best alternative here.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
    dogknees likes this.
  14. Nelson Tangela

    Nelson Tangela

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,937
    Mega Sableye

    [​IMG]
    Sableye @ Sablenite
    Ability: Prankster
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Snarl / Dark Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
    - Recover

    Snarl hits through Substitute which stops opponents from annoying you to death by spamming SubProtect.
    Dark Pulse is a more powerful and reliable option in combination with Taunt, because you don't need a sound-based move against SubProtect when you can just stop it completely.
    Will-O-Wisp provides greater utility when setting up against offensive teams but most likely won't help you against Gliscor.
    Taunt beats Stall harder and makes setting up on a Haze Toxapex that is waiting behind Gliscor much easier.
    The Mega Evolution provides Magic Bounce which is essential against Toxic, Taunt, phazing and entry hazards when facing Gliscor and Stall cores in general.
    Since Sableye is a Ghost-type Pokémon, it cannot be trapped by Mega Gengar, one of Gliscor's most common teammates.


    Gliscor moves that have a usage of at least 1% on cart:

    #01 | Earthquake | 97.2%
    #02 | Protect | 84.7%
    #03 | Substitute | 63.7%
    #04 | Toxic | 53.6%
    #05 | Guillotine | 39.3%
    #06 | Roost | 20.0%
    #07 | Rock Tomb | 11.9%
    #08 | Taunt | 9.7%
    #09 | Stealth Rock | 6.0%
    #10 | U-turn | 4.5%
    #11 | Ice Fang | 2.4%
    #12 | Knock Off | 1.8%
    #13 | Aerial Ace | 1.1%

    Nothing on this list accomplishes anything against Mega Sableye.
    Just avoid Toxic on the first switch and Gliscor will lose.


    Damage Calcs:

    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 48-57 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 42.1% chance to 3HKO
    Relevant calc if you have to switch an unevolved Sableye into an Earthquake.

    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 34-42 (21.6 - 26.7%) -- 12.8% chance to 4HKO

    252+ Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 48-57 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 42.1% chance to 3HKO
    Worst case scenario but nobody runs this much offensive investment on Gliscor anyway.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  15. Psychobuzz

    Psychobuzz

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    Messages:
    75
    Here's a Pokemon that can catch Gliscor by surprise.

    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar @ Icium Z
    Ability: Sand Stream
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 76 Def
    Relaxed/Impish Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Ice Beam
    - Stealth Rock

    EVs and nature are optimised so min attack neutral natured Gliscor can't OHKO tar with Swords Dance Earthquake. Tar can respond with a Z-Ice Beam that hits Gliscor's weaker Special Defense to wipe it out instantly.

    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Tyranitar: 84-102 (40.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Tyranitar Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 244 HP / 116 SpD Gliscor: 276-328 (152.4 - 181.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    3heartschall and dogknees like this.
  16. The Squash

    The Squash

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2016
    Messages:
    173
    [​IMG]
    Moody Teen (Glalie) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Moody
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Freeze-Dry / Frost Breath / Earthquake
    - Sheer Cold / Earthquake
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    Who needs real plays when you can just cheese with Glalie? Just click Protect and Substitute until you get the boosts you want and then use either Freeze-Dry or Frost breath to break Gliscor's sub and proceed to get the KO.

    Offensive Calcs:
    4 SpA Glalie Frost Breath vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor on a critical hit: 228-268 (127.3 - 149.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    4 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 168-204 (93.8 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

    Defensive Calcs:
    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Glalie: 66-78 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- 76.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    ThickFatAzumarill likes this.
  17. 3heartschall

    3heartschall

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    [​IMG]

    Greninja @ Life orb
    Naive/Timid Nature
    4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Water shuriken
    - Ice Beam
    - filler
    - filler

    Water shuriken breaks gliscor's subs and also do some damage. Proceed with a Ice Beam after breaking it. The other moves are filler depending on your needs/strategy.

    The calcs below are the worst scenarios you could face: a 2-hit water shuriken and a 2-hit water shuriken + Max SpD Gliscor.

    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 78-94 (42.8 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal (worst water shuriken scenario)
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 52-68 (28.5 - 37.3%) -- approx. 59.1% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal (worst water shuriken + Max SpD Gliscor scenario)
  18. Kanon90

    Kanon90

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2016
    Messages:
    245
    [​IMG]
    Donphan(Lum Berry)
    Ability : Sturdy
    EVs : 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def
    Adamant Nature

    Earthquake
    Ice Shard
    Counter
    Stealth Rock

    The combination of Sturdy , Ice Shard and Counter give Donphan all the tools to threaten both defensive and offensive sets of Gliscor while also being a solid lead/SR setter. Emphasizing Ice Shard whom allows it to bypass its slow speed and hit hard Gliscor not allowing to sub/protect that easily. Lum Berry helps against the potential Toxic. With Counter Donphan does well against the offensive SD sets of Gliscor.

    Beside Gliscor Donphan has a good match-up against dragons in BSS like Mega-Mence or Garchomp, the ever popular Landorus-T etc.
  19. PPB

    PPB

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Messages:
    106
    [​IMG]
    Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
    Ability: Aerilate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 52 HP / 248 Atk / 208 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Double-Edge / Return
    - Roost
    - Substitute

    Salamence is a terrifying Pokemon, and it can check Gliscor with Substitute, as Guillotine will (eventually) miss allowing Mence to keep its sub up and set up a Dragon Dance and become quite the threat. Salamence will only not beat the rare Ice Fang Gliscor (0.5961844197138315%) or the rare offensive Gliscor, but an offensive Gliscor should be easier for your teammates to pick up.

    4 Atk (not Intimidated) Gliscor Rock Tomb vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega: 36-44 (20.3 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO. Kek.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  20. dogknees

    dogknees

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    340
    Submissions are now closed! There are to be no edits of your own Pokemon, nor are there to be any new submissions. A few quick things to note;
    • Voting will close on the 22/7 at 12:30pm GMT+11 (8:30pm EST 21/7), where the next Vitim Of The Week will also be announced
    • You can't vote for your own submission
    • You can only change your vote once, so think carefully before doing so
    • You can vote even if you haven't made a submission. It is expected that you vote if you did submit yourself, but not compulsory
    Jhon's Cloyster (open)
    [​IMG]
    Cloyster @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Skill Link
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Ice Shard
    - Shell Smash

    Icicle Spear will KO it regardless of sub.
    Shell Smash is there if you want to setup on the predicted switch out.
    Sash will stop a Guillotine from wiping you before anything happens.
    ThickFatAzumarill's Primarina (open)

    [​IMG]
    Primarina @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Torrent
    Level: 50
    EVs: 156 HP / 100 Def / 252 SpA
    Modest Nature
    - Sparkling Aria
    - Moonblast
    - Perish Song
    - Aqua Jet

    Sparkling Aria isn't useful only for Oceanic Operetta, it also bypasses sub. It's a guaranteed OHKO on the flying scorpion-bat, and the Focus Sash is there just in case Gliscor hits a Guillotine against our singing seal friend.
    Steel With It's Aegislash (open)
    [​IMG]
    Aegislash @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Atk
    Quiet Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Flash Cannon
    - Shadow Sneak
    - King's Shield

    Immune to Guillotine, Toxic and Earthquake (as long as its Balloon is intact) - most Gliscor variants flat-out can't touch Aegislash. Even the occasional Knock Off doesn't help it much, since you can simply neuter its Attack with King's Shield. In return, either Shadow Ball or Flash Cannon safely 2HKOs it.

    252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 106-126 (58.5 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
    Fire Fist Ace's Avalugg (open)
    [​IMG]
    Avalugg @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature
    - Avalanche
    - Recover
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    The phat wall of ice that needs no introduction. It completely hard counters any and all Guillotine variants. Swords Dance variants just aren't gonna break the ice here pun totally not intended due to that thicc physically defensive booty, and Toxic versions will fold to Avalanche before it can live for a second turn.

    Even if it luckily managed to do like a +6 crit SE Z-move onto Avalugg, it prolly wouldn't even matter due to Sturdy

    Also blah blah blah, checks other common physical attackers like Lando-T, Garchomp, Tapu Bulu, MegaMence, Mega Kang and whatnot, etc etc.

    0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 196-232 (107.6 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    cant say's Mamoswine (open)
    The thing with Gliscor is that it's more often than not used on Stall teams, so having something that can put in work against things like Toxapex, Chansey, Mega Gengar, and even Porygon2 is really good. So i'm nominating:

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 44 HP / 212 Atk / 252 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Icicle Spear
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Fissure

    Anything with Icicle Spear scares most Gliscor out at team preview, but if they bring it you just click spear and win. The rest of the set doesn't help against Gliscor in any way, but does against common Gliscor cores (ie: all the thing I listed above). Only thing this doesn't like is Skarmory.
    Vif-Argent's Skarmory (open)
    [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet / Leftlovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - Stealth Rock / Toxic
    - Whirlwind
    - Drill Peck / Iron Head / Taunt

    Skarmory doesn't care about EQ and Toxic by its typing and Guillotine by its ability. Set up Rocks and spamming Whirlwind is the way to go for one of the best PhDef mon. Roost for recovery and reactivate Sturdy. Losing Flying-type with Roost makes it weak to EQ but it loses less than 50% of its health :
    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 62-74 (36 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    Don't use Skarmory STABs (0 Atk Skarmory Drill Peck / Iron Head vs. 228 HP / 68+ Def Gliscor: 27-33 (15 - 18.4%)). Taunt is the best alternative here.
    Nelson Tangela's Mega-Sableye (open)

    Mega Sableye

    [​IMG]
    Sableye @ Sablenite
    Ability: Prankster
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Snarl / Dark Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
    - Recover

    Snarl hits through Substitute which stops opponents from annoying you to death by spamming SubProtect.
    Dark Pulse is a more powerful and reliable option in combination with Taunt, because you don't need a sound-based move against SubProtect when you can just stop it completely.
    Will-O-Wisp provides greater utility when setting up against offensive teams but most likely won't help you against Gliscor.
    Taunt beats Stall harder and makes setting up on a Haze Toxapex that is waiting behind Gliscor much easier.
    The Mega Evolution provides Magic Bounce which is essential against Toxic, Taunt, phazing and entry hazards when facing Gliscor and Stall cores in general.
    Since Sableye is a Ghost-type Pokémon, it cannot be trapped by Mega Gengar, one of Gliscor's most common teammates.

    Gliscor moves that have a usage of at least 1% on cart:

    #01 | Earthquake | 97.2%
    #02 | Protect | 84.7%
    #03 | Substitute | 63.7%
    #04 | Toxic | 53.6%
    #05 | Guillotine | 39.3%
    #06 | Roost | 20.0%
    #07 | Rock Tomb | 11.9%
    #08 | Taunt | 9.7%
    #09 | Stealth Rock | 6.0%
    #10 | U-turn | 4.5%
    #11 | Ice Fang | 2.4%
    #12 | Knock Off | 1.8%
    #13 | Aerial Ace | 1.1%

    Nothing on this list accomplishes anything against Mega Sableye.
    Just avoid Toxic on the first switch and Gliscor will lose.

    Damage Calcs:

    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 48-57 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 42.1% chance to 3HKO
    Relevant calc if you have to switch an unevolved Sableye into an Earthquake.

    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 34-42 (21.6 - 26.7%) -- 12.8% chance to 4HKO

    252+ Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye-Mega: 48-57 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 42.1% chance to 3HKO
    Worst case scenario but nobody runs this much offensive investment on Gliscor anyway.
    Psychobuzz's Tyranitar (open)
    Here's a Pokemon that can catch Gliscor by surprise.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Icium Z
    Ability: Sand Stream
    Level: 50
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 76 Def
    Relaxed/Impish Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Ice Beam
    - Stealth Rock

    EVs and nature are optimised so min attack neutral natured Gliscor can't OHKO tar with Swords Dance Earthquake. Tar can respond with a Z-Ice Beam that hits Gliscor's weaker Special Defense to wipe it out instantly.

    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Tyranitar: 84-102 (40.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    0 SpA Tyranitar Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 244 HP / 116 SpD Gliscor: 276-328 (152.4 - 181.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    The Squash's Glalie (open)

    [​IMG]
    Moody Teen (Glalie) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Moody
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Freeze-Dry / Frost Breath / Earthquake
    - Sheer Cold / Earthquake
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    Who needs real plays when you can just cheese with Glalie? Just click Protect and Substitute until you get the boosts you want and then use either Freeze-Dry or Frost breath to break Gliscor's sub and proceed to get the KO.
    Offensive Calcs:
    4 SpA Glalie Frost Breath vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor on a critical hit: 228-268 (127.3 - 149.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    4 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 168-204 (93.8 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

    Defensive Calcs:
    0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Glalie: 66-78 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- 76.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    3heartschall's Greninja (open)
    [​IMG]
    Greninja @ Life orb
    Naive/Timid Nature
    4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Water shuriken
    - Ice Beam
    - filler
    - filler

    Water shuriken breaks gliscor's subs and also do some damage. Proceed with a Ice Beam after breaking it. The other moves are filler depending on your needs/strategy.

    The calcs below are the worst scenarios you could face: a 2-hit water shuriken and a 2-hit water shuriken + Max SpD Gliscor.

    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 78-94 (42.8 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal (worst water shuriken scenario)
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 52-68 (28.5 - 37.3%) -- approx. 59.1% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal (worst water shuriken + Max SpD Gliscor scenario)
    Kanon90's Donphan (open)
    [​IMG]
    Donphan(Lum Berry)
    Ability : Sturdy
    EVs : 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Def
    Adamant Nature

    Earthquake
    Ice Shard
    Counter
    Stealth Rock

    The combination of Sturdy , Ice Shard and Counter give Donphan all the tools to threaten both defensive and offensive sets of Gliscor while also being a solid lead/SR setter. Emphasizing Ice Shard whom allows it to bypass its slow speed and hit hard Gliscor not allowing to sub/protect that easily. Lum Berry helps against the potential Toxic. With Counter Donphan does well against the offensive SD sets of Gliscor.

    Beside Gliscor Donphan has a good match-up against dragons in BSS like Mega-Mence or Garchomp, the ever popular Landorus-T etc.
    PPB's Mega-Salamence (open)

    [​IMG]
    Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
    Ability: Aerilate
    Level: 50
    EVs: 52 HP / 248 Atk / 208 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Double-Edge / Return
    - Roost
    - Substitute

    Salamence is a terrifying Pokemon, and it can check Gliscor with Substitute, as Guillotine will (eventually) miss allowing Mence to keep its sub up and set up a Dragon Dance and become quite the threat. Salamence will only not beat the rare Ice Fang Gliscor (0.5961844197138315%) or the rare offensive Gliscor, but an offensive Gliscor should be easier for your teammates to pick up.

    0 Atk (not Intimidated) Gliscor Rock Tomb vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega: 36-44 (20.3 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO. Kek.
    Jhon and ThickFatAzumarill like this.
  21. Jhon

    Jhon Someday in the Rain
    is a Pre-Contributor
    BSS Tour Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
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    The four immediate things that came to mind for this one were Cloyster, Mamo, Prima and Infiltrator Chandelure. Sadly no-one nom'd the cool one.
    So I'm going with one which didn't spring to mind, Nelson Tangela's Mega-Sableye. Not really seen outside of Shed-Stall but it is truely effective at sitting in front of Gliscor. I wouldn't go with those moves in general, but here they do what they need to.
    Nelson Tangela and dogknees like this.
  22. Hulavuta

    Hulavuta Oh Wow!!!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Battle Spot Leader

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,705
    I vote for Jhon's Cloyster. The Icicle Spear is invaluable in getting rid of that annoying Substitute. The fact that it will always OHKO is what sets it over the edge for me. Extremely reliable. It does have problems with Toxapex which makes me lean a bit to Mamoswine, but I'll still go Cloyster for now.
    dogknees likes this.
  23. PPB

    PPB

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Messages:
    106
    Voting for ThickFatAzumarill's Primarina. I personally like Z-move a little better than Focus Sash for the sheer power of the nuke, but even without it Prima can DESTROY Gliscor with Sparkling Aria, and Prima is a good mon in general.
    ThickFatAzumarill and dogknees like this.
  24. Nelson Tangela

    Nelson Tangela

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,937
    If it can lose to Guillotine or Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes + Guillotine or Guillotine on the switch followed by Earthquake without doing anything, I'm not really a fan. This leaves the ghosts and the Sturdy monsters.
    Aegislash, Avalugg, Skarmory, Sableye, Donphan

    Out of these, I just don't see Avalugg winning if it switches into a Substitute or a Toxic, because it will die to poison while the opponent alternates between Substitute and Protect.
    Aegislash, Avalugg, Skarmory, Sableye, Donphan

    Air Balloon Aegislash is pretty much immune to the most common Gliscor, but it is still stuck against SubProtect spam since Shadow Sneak doesn't even break subs.
    4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 27-33 (18 - 22%) -- possible 9HKO after Poison Heal
    If Aegislash loses the Air Balloon because of one suboptimal play or because Gliscor ran one of the less common moves, it just gets baited into blade form and dies to Earthquake.
    Aegislash, Avalugg, Skarmory, Sableye, Donphan

    This is hard since I have much more experience with Skarmory in general so I'd be inclined to vote for that, but I really like the Donphan idea.
    252+ Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 80-96 (43.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
    Pretty impressive for a 40 base power non-STAB move and it has STAB Earthquake to quickly end the lifes of Gliscor's most common partners, Toxapex and Gengar.

    Skarmory on the other hand walls Gliscor forever and doesn't need a berry to deal with Toxic. I do like the nomination of Taunt Skarmory to mess with Stall, but it's huge weakness would be getting trapped by Mega Gengar without being able to fight back. Shed Shell as an option would have been good here imo.
    Even though I don't have much experience with Donphan and it obviously could have problems with a Skarmory partner when facing Gliscor, it looks like the most fun and aggressive option to me.
    It can actually switch into Guillotine without relying on a Focus Sash and threaten Gliscor, though I would have liked a slashed Endeavor somewhere to break Stall cores even harder.

    Aegislash, Avalugg, Skarmory, Sableye, Donphan

    Kanon90's Donphan
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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  25. Fischgrat

    Fischgrat

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Going to vote for Jhon's Cloyster, I like the offensive answer better since subtoxic can be so annoying to slower mons, esp if it already has a sub up once you switched in. Donphan still is close second, cool nom
    dogknees likes this.
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