Project Victim of the Week

[Sidnv]

But a counter can heal and come in multiple times during a game, which is the definiton of a counter :)

I went with the definition of a counter given in the OP, which didn't require the counter to be able to heal or come in multiple times. In any case, such a counter would be difficult, though not impossible, to fit into an offensive team and Thundurus is still a great weapon against Landorus that also has great utility in most offensive teams. I'm going to leave it as it is because I'm too lazy to make changes and I don't know what I would change anyways.

 

[alexwolf]

Okay alexwolf, I updated steps three and four of the rules with information pertaining to revenge killers.

Also, just a question about one of your other comments: why should Garchomp be removed from Kyu-B's checks? Yes, it hates Substitute and Ice Beam, but it can switch in easily on Fusion Bolt and Earth Power, so shouldn't it be considered a check, which should be able to

Of course, most of the time Kyu-B will be Substituting or Ice Beaming. But, against something that baits a Fusion Bolt, like Azumarill, that can OHKO back, it isn't worth not using Fusion Bolt, thus allowing Garchomp to be a somewhat risky check to Kyu-B. I'll gladly remove it, but I am a tad confused.

Also, thank you for all of the entries! The participation has been great, and there've been a lot of great checks/counters so far. Keep it up!

The problem is that the moves that Kyu-B almost always spams are Sub and Ice Beam. Chomp can serve as an emergency check i guess, but only if you have other teammates to lure the Fusion Bolt so that Garchomp can come in safely, and bringing in Chomp against Kyu-B should only be a measure for desperate situations. You can keep it i guess, but i wouldn't, or at least i would explain how bad of a check it is.

 

[Aragorn the King]

The problem is that the moves that Kyu-B almost always spams are Sub and Ice Beam. Chomp can serve as an emergency check i guess, but only if you have other teammates to lure the Fusion Bolt so that Garchomp can come in safely, and bringing in Chomp against Kyu-B should only be a measure for desperate situations. You can keep it i guess, but i wouldn't, or at least i would explain how bad of a check it is.

Okay. I just included it because it was the only check given that week. I'll just start the policy of only including quality checks/counters instead of just putting them all in if there's a shortage.

 

[Aragorn the King]

Double Posting because it's been three days, and editing my post wouldn't alert anyone.

I updated the OP with the new rules, the updated archive, and the new victim, and I think I should post here as well for the best clarity.

Week 2:
First, I chose my favorites from last week. Congrats to everyone who entered and made it in the Archive. We got a check and a counter to fill all three slots, so great gob. Now, to continue, with a vote of 38-27-7-3, this week's victim is Mega Charizard X! By the way, after realizing I can't change polls, and some insight from some members, I've decided to do away with the poll. I new Charizard X would win, simply because it's a) S rank, and b) usually thought of as the most terrifying of the four to face. Now, I'll just pick a Pokemon without a vote. Please, still PM/VM/comment here with your ideas, but I won't necessarily do a majority rules. I'll admit, it was cool to have 75 votes this week, but I don't think it's worth bugging a mod every week for such expected results. :)

Also guys, feel free to talk to me if I didn't choose your check/counter. There were more than enough entries, so unfortunately I had to go away with some quality entries!

With that said, here's the Mega Charizard-X set you guys are trying to Check/Counter.

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Dragon Claw

Charizard-X is a monster to handle. Every team needs at least one good check or counter to it, or it will fail miserably. Charizard-X has many different sets, all with different Pokemon to handle it. Some run this set with Fire Punch instead of Flare Blitz, some run it with Outrage instead of Dragon Claw, some run it with Earthquake over Roost, and some run a Bulky Will-o-Wisp set. But, I decided to go with this set because it is the best one you will see, and therefore the one you must be the most prepared for. So...

What checks Charizard-X? What counters Charizard-X?

GO!​

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

I'll say this is is a shaky counter/good check. Honestly there are no perferct zardX counters, and it should prob be banned, but anyways:

Rhyperior Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch/Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock

This things is bulky and with Solid Rock it won't be taking much from EQ leaving zard to dragon claw.
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 153-180 (35.2 - 41.4%)
It can switch into a dragon claw then later in match switch into a +1 dragon claw most of the time because of leftovers.
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 228-268 (52.5 - 61.7%)
In return:
252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 348-410 (116.7 - 137.5%)

Edgerock coverage. I perfer Ice punch for garchomp, landoT, Gliscor, then Stealth Rock dragon tail can be used here if you don't need a stealth rocker.
In addition to stopping ZardX, it can beat Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, and check almost all other physical attackers.

It does hate will-o-wisp sets.
It has no reliable recovery and loves wish support from something like Vaporeon, Alomamola, and Chansey

 

[Mowtom]

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic

Quagsire is a counter to all non-Outrage variants of Charizard X. It avoids the 2HKO from anything other than Outrage and is capable of 2HKOing with Earthquake. It can ignore DD boosts with Unaware, and Recovers off any damage done. Since most Charizards don't run Outrage, I think Quagsire is a counter rather than a check. Quagsire deals very well with most physical boosters, ignoring the boosts and threatening to burn, so it is far from useless if there is no Char-X on the opposing team. If facing the bulky Wisp Zard X, it can Recover off the burn damage, and it will be able to get off a Toxic because it takes significantly less dmamge from a non-max Attack Zard.

 

[sparktrain]

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- U-turn

Scarf Lando-T checks +1 Zard-X (among other dragon dancers such as Mega Ttar and Gyarados) since it can outspeed and revenge kill with EQ. Defensive Landorus-T also does a good job checking zard with its great bulk coupled with intimidate, but I opted to show Scarf Lando instead for its more immediate revenge killing potential. Bulky Zard-X with WoW/Roost is bit of a problem for Lando-T, especially if it comes in on a WoW, but honestly it's a problem to many of Offensive Zard-X's traditonal "counters," since a burn severely limits their ability to threaten zard and their potential to check zard throughout the match.

 

[Gr3gory]

Here's my set:

Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisnite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Water Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere

I feel Blastoise-M is a solid COUNTER against Mega Charizard X. He can take a +1 Dragon Claw and 0HKO back with Dragon Pulse. I even run the calcs.

+1 152+ Attack Mega Charizard X Tough Claws Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mega Blastoise=guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Blastoise Mega Launcher Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X=Largley 0HKO

The Xzard calcs are assuming he got the boost already. If no boost, Dragon Claw would be a possible 3HKO

 

[Rostam]

Azumarill@Choice Band
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature
-Aqua Jet
-Waterfall
-Play Rough
-Superpower/Knock Off

Azumarill is one of the best switch ins to mega Charizard x on offensive teams. Being immune to one stab and resisting the other, Azumarill forces Zard to go for neutral earthquakes or resisted flare blitzes, neither of which can 2hko Azu. Azumarill can then retaliate with either of its powerful stabs, which each do at least 75 percent to zard and deter other pokemon from switching in.

Non choice band variants such as the belly drum and assault vest sets can also check azumarill, although they can't hit quite as hard. They can still, however, do enough to 2hko zard x with no HP investment.(Max speed azumarill, however, has to be more careful, as it can be 2hkod by flare blitz)

Calcs:

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 173-204 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 144-170 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 258-305 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 246-289 (82.5 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 163-193 (54.6 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Azumarill is incredibly easy to fit onto offensive teams due to its good bulk and insane attack. As such, it is often a good choice for a zard x check.

Edit: Yeah, this set is shut down by Will O Wisp Zard X unless it runs facade. (I think that's a thing) Zard X is just a monster though, and I don't think there is any one Mon that can effectively deal with all of it's sets. There's a reason this thing is S rank. (Not to mention the primary objective was to check dd zard, not tank zard)

 

[Salemance]

The only problem I find with the majority of these checks is that several of these are stopped cold by the Bulky Wisp variant, which I know doesn't mean much for this particular theorymoning but its important to not you may be able to counter this one set you will be unable to counter the other versions he possesses, which makes Char X such a dangerous threat.

 

[Sidnv]

Here's my set:

Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisnite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Bold Nature
- Water Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere

I feel Blastoise-M is a solid COUNTER against Mega Charizard X. He can take a +1 Dragon Claw and 0HKO back with Dragon Pulse. I even run the calcs.

+1 252+ Attack Mega Charizard X Tough Claws Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Mega Blastoise=guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Blastoise Mega Launcher Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X=guaranteed 0HKO

The Xzard calcs are assuming he got the boost already. If no boost, Dragon Claw would be a possible 3HKO

Mega-Blastoise is still only a check because if the Zard-X uses Dragon Claw on the switch in and again the next turn, it has a 25% chance of killing Blastoise. It's not the likeliest of scenarios (especially since a lot of people would just Dragon Dance on the switch) but it's still possible for Zard-X to 2HKO Blastoise.

 

[Gr3gory]

Mega-Blastoise is still only a check because if the Zard-X uses Dragon Claw on the switch in and again the next turn, it has a 25% chance of killing Blastoise. It's not the likeliest of scenarios (especially since a lot of people would just Dragon Dance on the switch) but it's still possible for Zard-X to 2HKO Blastoise.

I put in the calcs If you bothered to read it. There is a 2HKO scenario in there.

 

[Jukain]

I'm just gonna say to the Rhyperior guy please please go 212 HP / 252 def / 44 Atk, it's so much better.

Anyways, I feel like including EQ is wrong. EQ Char X is uncommon (that is, DD variants; bulky Wisp uses it very commonly), Roost is way more common and you're restricting typical Zard X counters/checks by including it.

 

[Aragorn the King]

It's impossible to tell which is the most common on the ladder, but in tourney's I guess you're right; Roost is more popular. The reason I included EQ was a) to make it harder, and b) to make it more accurate. Heatran isn't exactly the most safe Charizard-X counter; you need to have something to take an EQ. I guess if keeping EQ is too limiting, I'll get rid of it. But keeping it seems like it's a more accurate representation of Charizard-X. Meh. Just to make it easier I'll change the moveset -_- Heatran fans/jukain go wild :P

 

[Inspirited]

Name: Gyarados

Check > Counter

fish coming through again :D

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail
- Waterfall

Rest Talk Gyarados is interesting to say the least, but it checks Bulky DDance Mega Charizard X. It is only a check, because if Charizard manages to get to +1 as Gyarados comes in on Stealth Rock, the fish will have to rely on a favorable Dragon Tail to Rest on in order to check Charizard again. Dragon Tail is the only reason Gyarados is a check at all. Without it, Charizard can easily set up on Gyara and eventually KO the fish with Dragon Claw. Dragon Tail is not only a super effective, it also takes advantage of Mega Charizard X's greatest weakness: Entry Hazards. Forcing Charizard to come in multiple times on Stealth Rock and not giving it the chance to Roost is one of the more efficient ways of handling it. That said, a reliable Stealth Rock user is mandatory when using this set as a DD Zard X check. Anti Defog and Rapid Spin measures are also important.

 

[Sidnv]

I put in the calcs If you bothered to read it. There is a 2HKO scenario in there.

I did read your post. I'm not talking about Charizard 2HKOing Blastoise after a Dragon Dance. Rather, there's a chance that it 2HKO's Blastoise on the switch with successive Dragon Claws at +0, in which case, Blastoise would not be able to counter Charizard.

 

[Mowtom]

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 163-193 (45 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Reasonably certain that this means that Blastoise is nowhere near a counter.

 

[linkinparkrules]

Name: Latios
Check

Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Levitate

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Draco Meteor

- Psyshock

- Trick

-Surf/Thunderbolt/Earthquake/Et Cetera...

Used to be one of the best Scarf Pokemon in gen V, Latios comes back in gen 6 with a different role mainly as an offensive Defogger. Although he's not the best Scarf Pokemon anymore (because Aegislash, Bisharp, old Tyranitar, Azumarill, Sylveon, etc...), blazing 110 speed and access to Trick makes the differences (Break Stall, Wall,...).I must say that Lati twin check all Charizard variant, both form. Ok stop making irrelevant reason. Why Scarf Latios over Scarf Terrakion or Scarf Garchomp? Simple, he is a special attacker. Rhyperior, Quagsire, Garchomp, Azumarill, Lando-t are all afraid of incoming Will-O-Wisp from Wisp Tank Zard X (maybe Quagsire not because Heal Bell support from other member) but Latios doesn't mind that because damage dealt by special moves will not be halved like physical ones. WispTank Char makes all the checks and counters said about become a complete trash for the rest of the match (again, except teammate has Heal Bell) Scarf Latios is also a surprise factor this gen, because of Defog-role thought. Ok Latios comes in and takes a WoW or watch CharX get a DD boost and then what will CharX do? Whatever. Latios outspeed. Draco Meteor OHKO (opponent: wait what he's not a defogger???). Done. However, he can't switch into a Dragon Claw or Outrage so be careful

 

[Salemance]

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 163-193 (45 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Reasonably certain that this means that Blastoise is nowhere near a counter.

I believe his Blast set ran a Defended Boosting nature (bold I believe)? It just makes it a bit easier to understand where he comes from the idea of counter.

 

[Mowtom]

I believe his Blast set ran a Defended Boosting nature (bold I believe)? It just makes it a bit easier to understand where he comes from the idea of counter.

His calcs seem to use bold, but the actual set says modest. Even so, having a nature boost on a stat with no investment is usually a bad idea.

 

[Salemance]

His calcs seem to use bold, but the actual set says modest. Even so, having a nature boost on a stat with no investment is usually a bad idea.

Hmm, that is more than a little weird as that was the basis of his earlier post (not saying it was good idea, but its what he was using so it was to be said. Didn't realize he changed it

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

I'm just gonna say to the Rhyperior guy please please go 212 HP / 252 def / 44 Atk, it's so much better.

Just wondering why? any particular ko it gets?

 

[linkinparkrules]

NO ONE cares about my CharX counter? :(

 

[alexwolf]

Here is THE Mega Char X counter:

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Slack Off

• +1 152+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 178-211 (45.2 - 53.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Slowbro can take one hit, use Toxic, and just keep spamming Slack Off until Mega Charizard X dies. If you fear the max Atk + 3 attacks set more, then Thunder Wave is the best option as this set can 2HKO Slowbro after a boost, so you use Thunder Wave to make sure that another teammate can revenge kill Mega Char X. Also, Slowbro dgaf about the SpD set, which is great. And Slowbro just never dies, so with it on your team you won't have any Mega Char X problems unless the opponent has Gothitelle.

 

[dwarfstar]

NO ONE cares about my CharX counter? :(

It's not a counter. A counter to a given set must be able to reliably switch in on all of that set's moves and avoid the 2HKO, and Latios can't do that. Latios is a check/revenge-killer in this case.