I'm pretty sure a Check should switch in at least into one of the Pokemon's attack, but if you do that with Jirachi, you die then to two Hammer Arms, while MegaGross just gets 3HKO'd.Check
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 24 HP / 228 Atk / 16 Def / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Trick
Defensive Calcs
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 24 HP / 16 Def Jirachi: 147-173 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 24 HP / 16 Def Jirachi: 99-117 (28.5 - 33.7%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Ice Punch vs. 24 HP / 16 Def Jirachi: 55-65 (15.8 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 24 HP / 16 Def Jirachi: 43-51 (12.3 - 14.6%) -- possible 7HKO
Offensive Calc
228+ Atk Jirachi Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 104-124 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Jirachi beats Mega Meta 1v1 with this spread as the HP + Def EVs let it avoid any possible 2HKO from MegaGross (without SR or Spikes on the field) and Jirachi can hit MegaGross 3 times with Fire Punch before MegaGross hits Jirachi 3 times with Hammer Arm
A check is when something gets a free turn in, whether it's by double switching, slow voltturn etc and can beat the other pokemonI'm pretty sure a Check should switch in at least into one of the Pokemon's attack, but if you do that with Jirachi, you die then to two Hammer Arms, while MegaGross just gets 3HKO'd.
I don't know if you can fix this with a bulkier Wish set, but Scarf doesn't work.
Well that is not really true here. If the op would show it, (for some reason it's gone,) the definition for a check is this:A check is when something gets a free turn in, whether it's by double switching, slow voltturn etc and can beat the other pokemon
A counter is something that switches into any of it's moves and can still win, I think Band Jirachi could counter this specific Mega Metagross, but Scarf is a lot more viable.
That Jirachi set beats MegaGross 1v1 (assuming hazards aren't up) and isn't completely terrible in the meta and by definition checks it
It would be a weak check regardless, because rocks being down means Jirachi is at risk of being 2HKO'd by Hammer Arm even if it gets a free switch. At best it's a revenge killer, and even then Jirachi will be heavily damaged in the process barring a Fire Punch burn.Well that is not really true here. If the op would show it, (for some reason it's gone,) the definition for a check is this:
"Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if Pokémon A can win every time when switching into at least one of Pokemon B's attacks, without factoring in hax."
So no, Jirachi is not a Check.
"Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax."Well that is not really true here. If the op would show it, (for some reason it's gone,) the definition for a check is this:
"Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if Pokémon A can win every time when switching into at least one of Pokemon B's attacks, without factoring in hax."
So no, Jirachi is not a Check.
My understanding is that Victim of the Week uses a somewhat different definition of check, just because otherwise 90% of the victims would be checked by Greninja or Talonflame."Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax."
It may be a weak check, but Jirachi still fits the definition of one
But if it's a problem, I'll just find something else that checks it
Yeah, I suppose I'll change mine thenMy understanding is that Victim of the Week uses a somewhat different definition of check, just because otherwise 90% of the victims would be checked by Greninja or Talonflame.
That said, even with the above definition, Jirachi doesn't really check, because "even under the worst case scenario" means it should be able to check even if there are some entry hazards down.
Scald dosen't pan out well, even though you aren't invested in attack at all, as is crunch, whose neutral coverage is unimportant for a defensive gyarados.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 172 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald / Waterfall
- Crunch / Dragon Tail
With Gyarados getting Crunch, we now have a more reliable way of dealing with Mega Gross. SpDef Gyara has always been shunned upon compared to it's mega since MegaDos gets MB Taunt. But that doesn't mean normal Gyara doesn't stand a chance. Scald allows you to fish for burns in a 1v1 and crunch gives you reliability. It is also a very useful switch-in for Zard Y, Greninja, and Keldeo. Generally, mons that are able to apply a ton of pressure to balanced teams can be dealt with by Gyara 1v1-ing them.
It is able to switch in on a hammer arm. However hammer arm isn't that common on Mega-Metagross since that drops its imperative 110 speed tier. Even if Landorus-T manages to switch-in on a full-health Mega-Metagross, (252 Atk Jolly Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) it fails to OHKO with Earthquake. Metagross can hit back with Ice Punch (-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 340-400 (106.5 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO) guaranteeing OHKO. "Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax." Thus Landorus-T does not qualify as a check.Lanorus-Therian
Check
Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
Lando-t is a check because it is able to switch in on hammer arm. Standard moveset.
Calcs:
-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 56-66 (17.5 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Your analysis did not address Mega-Metagross carrying Grass Knot.Apologies for the double post, I'm way too forgetful. :$
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
Quagsire is a Counter. Zen Headbutt is a 3HKO at best, meaning Quag can come in and proceed to kill (albeit slowly). Metagross by alternating between Recover and Earthquake. If he's feeling lucky, he can also spam scald to burn Metagross, which only makes his job easier. The only way Metagross wins is if he flinches, but that's hax and hax doesn't count.
This Metagross doesnt have Grass Knot, so its irrelevant to my post.Your analysis did not address Mega-Metagross carrying Grass Knot.
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/metagross
Although not too commonly seen, Grass Knot on Mega-Metagross is recommended by the dex to take down Slowbro and Quagsire: 0 SpA Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 340-400 (86.2 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Grass Knot is not affected by the potential burn brought by Quagsire's Scald. Thus Quagsire is only a counter to non-Grass Knot Mega-Metagross, but cannot even be considered a check against Grass Knot Metagross.
Like clone said above this metagross doesn't have it, so this calc is irrelevantIt's a hard check at best. Some Metagross use Grass Knot.
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 182-216 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
EDIT : Hey, 900 messages :o
Sorry my bad, I didn't take the time to read the OP.This Metagross doesnt have Grass Knot, so its irrelevant to my post.
Sorry, I made that post late at night. Feel free to ignore it, I probably wasn't thinking clearly lol.It is able to switch in on a hammer arm. However hammer arm isn't that common on Mega-Metagross since that drops its imperative 110 speed tier. Even if Landorus-T manages to switch-in on a full-health Mega-Metagross, (252 Atk Jolly Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) it fails to OHKO with Earthquake. Metagross can hit back with Ice Punch (-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 340-400 (106.5 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO) guaranteeing OHKO. "Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax." Thus Landorus-T does not qualify as a check.
All calcs done with 145 ATK, 150 DEF, and Tough Claws on Metagross.
EDIT: This Metagross does not carry Grass Knot, please ignore this post.
Agility+Earthquake and it's gone...Reserving Victini as a counter
Name: Victini
Status: Counter
Victini @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Final Gambit
Victini resists all of Mega Metagross's moves and can outspeed and OHKO Mega Metagross with STAB V-Create. Bolt Strike is an option for Victini to catch bulky waters that try to switch-in on V-Create while U-Turn generates momentum for the team. Final Gambit can be used in the last slot to wear down a specific wall faster so that a teammate can sweep.
Calculations:
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 105-125 (30.7 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 378-446 (125.5 - 148.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's a counter based on the posted set, which is one of it's more effective ones. EQ+Agility is not that good either because you are hard checked by a bunch of different things depending on what you drop for coverage.Agility+Earthquake and it's gone...
Reserving Victini as a counter
Name: Victini
Status: Counter
Victini @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Final Gambit
Victini resists all of Mega Metagross's moves and can outspeed and OHKO Mega Metagross with STAB V-Create. Bolt Strike is an option for Victini to catch bulky waters that try to switch-in on V-Create while U-Turn generates momentum for the team. Final Gambit can be used in the last slot to wear down a specific wall faster so that a teammate can sweep.
Calculations:
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 105-125 (30.7 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 378-446 (125.5 - 148.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
edit: nvm i'll jus use different setReserving Chandelure
Just realized how shaky Chandelure is, reserving Victini instead
Messed up with the calc lol what I saw was v-create against metagarossNot only that but victini survives earthquake, it does like 82 % max
It even survives adamant
252+ Atk Mega Metagross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 260-306 (76.2 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO