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Victreebel set "All-out-mixed sweeper" revised

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Frisodium, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. Frisodium


    Nov 20, 2012
    Hello community. Today I'd like to talk you about one of the most underrated sun sweepers in existence: Victreebel.

    "Plants get chewed on by lizards; it's a sad but true fact of nature. Similarly, Victreebel gets eaten alive by a fat green dinosaur named Venusaur in the OU environment, and often gets a bad rap for being outclassed. The thing is, Victreebel isn't even outclassed by Venusaur! While it is true that they have a similar typing, ability, and movepool, Victreebel possesses many qualities that justify its use over Venusaur. Being outsped by a 220-pound quadruped is indeed embarrassing, but Victreebel's base 105 Attack and 100 Special Attack stats make it a superior mixed sweeper. Furthermore, the pitcher plant has access to powerful moves, such as Power Whip and Weather Ball, that Venusaur would stink up a garden to get. It is difficult for Victreebel to set up due to its unimpressive defensive stats, but if you let it come in safely, it will eat your team alive and leave nothing but a pool of nectar."

    When it comes to sun sweep, Victreebel doesn't come in mind very often. People thinks it is completely outclassed by Venusaur, and since he shares the same type combination, he never gets a spot for a second sun abuser. Sawsbuck, Shiftry, Lilligant or even Exeggutor are different enough to get a place in sun teams, and our little Sarracenia has to live in the shadow of his toad-like archenemy.

    But, is that true? Actually, I think the answer is NO. And I'll say what is wrong with how people use Victreebel: Since he shares the type and many moves with Venusaur, they think he can abuse growth just like him. But this is a huge mistake. A mistake that the strategy dex points out but doesn't actually explain it properly.

    In my oppinion, the best way to use Victreebel is as an all out mixed or special sweeper with 3 attacks and sleep powder. The dex entry has already a set like that, but I think it completely fails with the moveset.

    This is the set the entry already has:

    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 148 Atk / 112 SAtk / 248 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Power whip
    - Hidden power [Fire]
    - Sludge bomb
    - Sleep Powder

    This set is totally wrong because it's obsessed with having power whip. You sacrifice weather ball to have it, and hidden power to have a substitute for weather ball. If you look at this I can completely see why Venusaur is better. Saur has growth to make that HPFire a deadly menace, and he uses giga drain to mantain alive thanks to its bulk. This Victreebel set pretends to be an instant sun sweeper, but our little pear just doesn't hit hard enough with this set to make it a choice over saur.

    So, lets think, what makes Victreebel and Venusaur different?
    • Weather ball: Under the sun Weather ball is an incredible move to have. Victreebel is the only pokèmon in the entire game the combination of Chlorophyll ans WB. And, since Victribel is almost useless outside the sun, there should never be a reason to not having it.

    • Higher attack and special attack makes him a great mixed sweeper even without growth. Growth is a great tentation in order to obtain an absurd firepower, but Venusaur is infinitely better in that role.

    • Power whip sure sounds great, but think it twice: It has the same base power than solar beam, but with fewer accuracy. Don't forget that the crucial weather ball is illegal in combination with power whip. Stop for a moment and look closer in Victreebel's movepool. Victreebel has Leaf blade! Leaf blade is a physical 90-base, 100% accurate power grass attack with high critical ratio, and you don't need to forget WB!. It's powerful enough to 0-kill many treats like Starmie, Rotom-W, Mamoswine or Terrakion, and is still better than anything Venusaur may have in the phisycal side!

    • While it's true that Venusaur has more base speed than Victreebel, he can't use it to full potential since he need to invest in bulkiness in order to get growth boosts. 248spe naïve Victreebel will outspeed any venusaur you may find and destroy it with his insanely powerful weather ball.

    In order to reflect that facts, I suggest to make some changes to the current all-out mixed attacker set:

    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 112 Atk / 148 SAtk / 248 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Leaf Blade/Giga drain/Solar beam
    - Weather Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]/Sludge bomb
    - Sleep Powder

    Now this is a real alternative over Venusar. It sure is frailer than the big toad, but he also hits much harder and faster than him. Victreebel can 0KO a big portion of the offensive metagame with this combination. The current set suggest using Sludge bomb for coverage against dragon types, but you'll hit garchomp, dragonite, haxorus and salamence much harder with HP Ice. HP Ice serves well against Landorus and Gliscor. Leaf blade is a great physical move that allows you to hit hard water types and specially deffensive walls, but you may want to make your Victreebel completely special and use giga drain (for counter the LO life lost) or solar beam (Risky, but powerful), but in this case you'll have troble against the blobs. Weather ball is the main reason to use and abuse Victreebel, as its as powerful as leaf blade under the sun. With sun, this little pear will destroy Skarmory, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Metagross, Jirachi, Scizor, Genesect, Bronzong, Breelom, Tangrowth, Heracross... and many others! This set focuses in total offensive, and you should be sure you'll kill your target, because Victreebel cannot take many hits. That's why you have sleep powder. If the enemy cannot be 1KO, put it to sleeps and 2KO it or switch, and is the only thing you have against Heatran. Personally I prefer this IV spread because it impairs his atack and special attack and makes deadlier his main trick, weather ball, ahile mantaining a reasonable power with his STAB leaf blade.

    Since he need so badly to get 0KOs, hazards support is highly desirable in order to break sashes, sturdies and multiscale Dragonite (Who probably won't expect HP Ice). Note that after SR damage volcarona is 1KOed by one single weather ball. You must be careful against bullet punch, extremespeed, sucker punch and ice shard, but at least thanks to his poison type he can handle a mach punch if needed. Fire types can be hard to counter, specially Ninetales, Infernape and Heatran, and because of that flash fire partners like heatran himself, houndoom, arcanine or chandelure are a great idea. However you must notice that Victreebel job is been a kamikaze, and that's what makes a difference between him and Venusaur. While the toad can take some hits and boost, our pear-shaped man-eater plant will kill everything he could, while he burns himself screaming "Banzai!"
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja It's all coming back to me now
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Apr 13, 2009
    Leaf Blade + Weather Ball is already mentioned in AC of the set. It was originally denied a main slash because of how weak it is, failing to OHKO Politoed and Tyranitar without a boost.

    HP Ice is also listed, by Sludge Bomb still gets pretty decent coverage, doing about the same as HP Ice on targets such as Haxorus, Latias, and Latios, while doing more to Kyurem-B.

    Worth noting that Genesect is now uber so you would want to remove that

    Worth noting that Solarbeam and Giga Drain should be removed as a slash to begin with since it pretty much makes it similar to the special attacker Bel set in the analysis (which you linked to) and doesn't make it Mixed.
  3. Oglemi

    Oglemi oh my gosh you found me
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Secret Boss Mod

    Oct 13, 2009
    Take a look at the formatting guide and the other threads in this forum to get an idea of what we want posted.

    Right now I have no idea what you're trying to do, are you rewriting the whole analysis, just a set or two? Also as ginganinja pointed out, your sets aren't even very good.

    Take some time to lurk around a bit more and play the game some more before submitting anything else to the forum, thanks!

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