Walls are overrated. (Gen 4 OU Offensive team)

[Adamant Zoroark]

Hey Smogon! Lately I've been taking a break from 5th Generation battles, so I decided to build a 4th Gen team. Ever since I entered the competitive battling scene, I've always followed a philosophy of "Screw walls. Why wall stuff when you can kill stuff?". I've never liked the thought of using a Pokemon that just sits around and takes hits and heals off the damage, especially since said Pokemon generally tend to be either set-up bait or Skarmory (neither of which I like). I thought of a pretty random team expecting it to not work at all (especially due to the fact that it has little team synergy), but when I actually tested it, to my surprise, it was actually super effective! (pun intended)

So, without further ado, here's the team!

Azelf @ Colbur Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 8 HP / 140 Atk / 144 SDef / 216 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- U-turn
- Taunt

After forever of testing, I have decided that lead Celebi is rather mediocre overall. I have tried out a lead Colbur Berry Azelf I was recommended to use earlier, and I love it. I still have the ability to U-turn out to beat lead Aerodactyl with Weavile, without taking over 9000 damage from U-turns like Celebi was. The ability to Taunt, which I couldn't do with Celebi, is a godsend. If I come across a lead Aerodactyl, I simply U-turn to Weavile to Ice Shard it to death. Dealing with Machamp is easier than before; I can take a Payback easily thanks to Colbur Berry, set up SR, then explode in Machamp's face.

Frygon (Flygon) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 80 Atk / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast

After some testing, I have replaced my old Flygon with Mixed Flygon. I especially love this set's Draco Meteors, and they do A LOT of damage. I'm sorry, Intimidate? DRACO METEOR TO THE FACE! As for Mixed Flygon vs Mixed Dragonite, I prefer mixed Flygon since Flygon resists SR and is also immune to Spikes/Toxic Spikes, so it can switch in a LOT more. Fire Blast mostly takes care of Scizor switch-ins, although with this EV spread + nature, I don't think Flygon can live a Choice Banded Bullet Punch. I still want to avoid Choice sets, but I've decided that I needed to stop whining about Outrage and use it, to handle the Specially bulky mons immune to Earthquake, such as Togekiss.

Spd demon (Weavile) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
- Low Kick
- Night Slash

This is probably my favorite Pokemon on the entire team. I have always preferred to use Weavile over Mamoswine, especially since Weavile destroys Dragonite and Flygon well enough and doesn't completely suck outside of its priority move. Obviously the two moves I use the most on this Weavile are Ice Shard and Pursuit, Ice Shard being used to take down Pokemon like Dragonite and Flygon, and Pursuit anything that won't wanna stay in on Weavile (hi Starmie) or weakened Pokemon that probably don't wanna stay in, such as a weakened Flygon. Low Kick is there because without it Tyranitar would completely wall me and possibly destroy me with a Rock Slide or Stone Edge. Low Kick is also a great move to use against any Heatran that isn't carrying a Choice Scarf.

Night Slash replaces Ice Punch since I've needed a move to deal with Dark-weak mons that attempt to stay in, such as Rotom-A. Ice Shard handles just about any Dragonite/Flygon well enough anyway.

Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Bounce

I've said before that I've believed Suicune to be the weak link of my team. Suicune almost always ended up being dead weight in most of my battles, and if you got me down to just Suicune, you were probably going to win. I've decided that I was lacking something: A Dragon Dancer. Dragonite wouldn't fit in since I don't need 2 Pokemon that are 4x weak to Ice, so Gyarados was the natural choice. It might be weak to Porygon2, but that should really be non-issue since Lucario fucks it up.

Anyway, Waterfall is the obvious STAB move of choice to handle.... Well, everything weak to it. Intimidate makes setting up easier, as it lets me weaken physical sweepers. Intimidate has also helped me set up with Lucario. Stone Edge lets me hit the Flying-types that might try to ruin my sweeps, and then Bounce is for those Grass-types that might try to come in.

Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Overheat


Rotom-H takes over Heatran's spot after Heatran had been on the team for a mere 2 hours. There's a good reason for this, as Rotom-H destroys Skarmory, just about any Scizor, and I can Trick my Choice Scarf onto Blissey to cripple the pink bitch, so I can crush Blissey without having to rely on Explosion. I chose to use Rotom-H as an overall better way of dealing with Steel-types like Metagross and Scizor, and I can still zap Skarmory to death with Thunderbolt. Shadow Ball lets me deal with Gengar (I haven't seen any scarf Gengar, have you?) and at least do something to Psychics like Gallade. It's also a lot easier to handle Gyarados, and makes sweeping with Lucario a lot easier.

+Edit 11/12/2011: I'd like to add a note that I AM NOT replacing Lucario with ANYTHING. Thank you.

Broom (Lucario) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- ExtremeSpeed

My favorite set-up sweeper in 4th gen, with a slight change: Bullet Punch. Weavile isn't luring any Scarf T-tars anytime soon, while Lucario does that like crazy and kills it with a +2 Bullet Punch. Close Combat is the obvious STAB move of choice, as it has a high chance of OHKOing Skarmory at +2 after Stealth Rock damage. ExtremeSpeed helps me get past faster Pokemon that I don't need to rely on Bullet Punch to kill, and Mach Punch is fairly uncommon on Infernape from what I've seen.

Well, hope you enjoyed this RMT! Rate, hate, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Bump.

 

[Lazyboy]

Seems like a good team, one quick point I'd like to make is that seeing as this team wants to sweep with Lucario, I would suggest running a mixed set with Flygon. This allows Flygon to act as a lure to physical walls that give Lucario trouble, such as Gliscor, Hippowdon and Skarmory.

Flygon @ Life Orb
80 Atk/252 Sp.atk/176 Spe
Mild/Hasty Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
-Roost

Mild or hasty nature is whether you want to outspeed neutral natured base 90s or positive natured base 90s, but the only notable difference is Adamant or Jolly Lucario, who has extremespeed anyway, so the boost in power will probably be more useful.

As for the move change for Weavile, I was thinking either SD or taunt. SD would put additional pressure on physical walls, meaning if they come in on Lucario at low health, it's an easy sweep from there. Taunt on the other hand means that although he can be walled by pokes such as Skarmory or Forretress, you can stop them from setting up spikes or toxic spikes, which hinder 4/6 pokes on your team.

As far as team weaknesses go, there really aren't that many obvious ones. LO starmie can be somewhat problematic, both weavile and lucario and aero (if its still alive) can revenge it, but you don't really have anything that can switch into it safely, then again very few teams can. Also, you lack a fighting resist, and whilst this isn't too problematic as they don't really have too many opportunities to switch in, Leadchamp seems to cause a lot of problems, especially as none of your pokes can OHKO it at full health if you choose to SR with Aero first turn. Persnally I would consider using Colbur Berry Azelf as a lead, it may lose to other Aero leads (although they can be beaten by u-turning to weavile as they taunt, then ice sharding to death) it allows you to deal with machamp leads and still keep offensive momentum.

Azelf @ Colbur Berry
8 HP/140 Atk/144 Sp.Def/216 Spd
Jolly Nature
-Explosion
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-U-turn

This allows you to set up or beat the majority of leads at the start of the game, the only common leads it loses to are Aero, scarf Jirachi and LO/Specs Heatran, though they can be beaten by other members of your team.

Hope this has been helpful, good luck with the team in the future.

 

[kkoala]

Agreeing with the change of Flygon moveset, since this team has no real way of breaking rest talk gyara... (outside of suicune, which it will switch out of most of the time) Also, Skarmory doesn't wall Lucario, even 252hp/252Def Impish Skarmory is ohko'd by a +2 Close Combat after SR.

 

[Lazyboy]

Ah, well thanks for clarifying that, but regardless taunt would be useful especially with pokes like weavile/infernape who take additional damage from life orb and possibly sandstorm

 

[les gets]

As for the move change for Weavile, I was thinking either SD or taunt. SD would put additional pressure on physical walls, meaning if they come in on Lucario at low health, it's an easy sweep from there. Taunt on the other hand means that although he can be walled by pokes such as Skarmory or Forretress, you can stop them from setting up spikes or toxic spikes, which hinder 4/6 pokes on your team.

SD is not needed on weavile, and taunt is definitely not needed. LO weaviles need night slash over ice punch because starmies/rotoms/etc. almost always stay in, and the crit rate with night slash is very helpful. Also, use a spread of 32 HP / 252 Atk / 40 SDef / 184 Spe; the speed evs are enough to beat scartftar and that's all that you need. Max speed is just for other weaviles and alakazam/sceptile, who I bet you've never even seen (and you have ice shard anyways). The 32 HP is for a good LO number and the rest goes to SDef to help take hits from the mons you are pursuiting.

This team is extremely similar to mine. I would make more suggestions, but your team would turn into the one I have currently, and I plan on making a RMT on it very soon. And lazyboy, if you're suggesting that lead because you saw it used on the ladder, that was mostly likely me.

 

[pie cream]

Hey LucaraorkZ,

Maybe try stone edge on areodactyl to get the KO on lead dragonite since rock slide deosn't(I think so)?

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Seems like a good team, one quick point I'd like to make is that seeing as this team wants to sweep with Lucario, I would suggest running a mixed set with Flygon. This allows Flygon to act as a lure to physical walls that give Lucario trouble, such as Gliscor, Hippowdon and Skarmory.

Flygon @ Life Orb
80 Atk/252 Sp.atk/176 Spe
Mild/Hasty Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
-Roost

Mild or hasty nature is whether you want to outspeed neutral natured base 90s or positive natured base 90s, but the only notable difference is Adamant or Jolly Lucario, who has extremespeed anyway, so the boost in power will probably be more useful.

As for the move change for Weavile, I was thinking either SD or taunt. SD would put additional pressure on physical walls, meaning if they come in on Lucario at low health, it's an easy sweep from there. Taunt on the other hand means that although he can be walled by pokes such as Skarmory or Forretress, you can stop them from setting up spikes or toxic spikes, which hinder 4/6 pokes on your team.

As far as team weaknesses go, there really aren't that many obvious ones. LO starmie can be somewhat problematic, both weavile and lucario and aero (if its still alive) can revenge it, but you don't really have anything that can switch into it safely, then again very few teams can. Also, you lack a fighting resist, and whilst this isn't too problematic as they don't really have too many opportunities to switch in, Leadchamp seems to cause a lot of problems, especially as none of your pokes can OHKO it at full health if you choose to SR with Aero first turn. Persnally I would consider using Colbur Berry Azelf as a lead, it may lose to other Aero leads (although they can be beaten by u-turning to weavile as they taunt, then ice sharding to death) it allows you to deal with machamp leads and still keep offensive momentum.

Azelf @ Colbur Berry
8 HP/140 Atk/144 Sp.Def/216 Spd
Jolly Nature
-Explosion
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-U-turn

This allows you to set up or beat the majority of leads at the start of the game, the only common leads it loses to are Aero, scarf Jirachi and LO/Specs Heatran, though they can be beaten by other members of your team.

Hope this has been helpful, good luck with the team in the future.

I can see how the mixed Flygon would help (and I'll start testing it), but I don't see how Swords Dance/Taunt would help out Weavile. Pursuit is a terrible move to use on any Swords Dance booster, and Pursuit is the main reason any offensive team would want to use Weavile, plus I already have Lucario as a Swords Dance sweeper anyway. I'll probably consider Cost's suggestion of Night Slash over Ice Punch, as well as the EV spread. Thanks for the rate.

Hey LucaraorkZ,

Maybe try stone edge on areodactyl to get the KO on lead dragonite since rock slide deosn't(I think so)?

I'll think about SE on Aero, although the main thing that keeps me from using Stone Edge (unless there's no other choice) on stuff is its 80% accuracy. Too many times have Stone Edges/Focus Blasts missing cost me matches. I already have Weavile to kill Dragonite anyway, which Weavile can do effectively even if D-nite has used Dragon Dance thanks to Ice Shard. Also, I ran a calc, and Stone Edge still only has a 20% chance to KO Dragonite, whereas Weavile's Ice Shard has a 100% chance to KO Offensive DD Dragonite, even without Stealth Rock.

 

[Smith]

Hey good team! I sort of have a soft spot for Weavile for some reason (and mixed Flygon) so I like this team a good deal (speaking of, I agree that you ought to use Mixed Flygon instead). Really the only reason that opposing Luke doesn't sweep you is that you don't give them the opportunity- the same can be said of almost all fighting types, actually. Something that will trouble you, however, are powerful electrics such as Jolteon or Raikou. Flygon is a pretty shaky resist (and one that's quad weak to HP Ice!) so you have nothing to switch into powerful Thunderbolts. Suicune is set up fodder for both of the above, or potentially even Electivire if he can get in on an Hp Electric (which is pretty easy with GyaraVire).

Of course, I don't want to replace Flygon since he's your favorite Pokemon so I think that maybe you could change Aerodactyl. I will outright tell you that I think he's the worst lead in gen 4, because all he does is set up SR and die. How about something that sets up SR, and then serves a purpose? Great! Standard Lead Celebi seems to me a good fit for the team. With U-turn, you maintain your offensive pressure; with Leaf Storm, you don't hit like a pussy; and with Grass/ Psychic typing and Earth Power, you cover your slight fighting and electric weakness in one fell swoop! It also gives you another water resist so that Suicune isn't your sole Vaporeon stop, for example. FWG is just icing on the cake. I hope this helps!

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Hey good team! I sort of have a soft spot for Weavile for some reason (and mixed Flygon) so I like this team a good deal (speaking of, I agree that you ought to use Mixed Flygon instead). Really the only reason that opposing Luke doesn't sweep you is that you don't give them the opportunity- the same can be said of almost all fighting types, actually. Something that will trouble you, however, are powerful electrics such as Jolteon or Raikou. Flygon is a pretty shaky resist (and one that's quad weak to HP Ice!) so you have nothing to switch into powerful Thunderbolts. Suicune is set up fodder for both of the above, or potentially even Electivire if he can get in on an Hp Electric (which is pretty easy with GyaraVire).

Of course, I don't want to replace Flygon since he's your favorite Pokemon so I think that maybe you could change Aerodactyl. I will outright tell you that I think he's the worst lead in gen 4, because all he does is set up SR and die. How about something that sets up SR, and then serves a purpose? Great! Standard Lead Celebi seems to me a good fit for the team. With U-turn, you maintain your offensive pressure; with Leaf Storm, you don't hit like a pussy; and with Grass/ Psychic typing and Earth Power, you cover your slight fighting and electric weakness in one fell swoop! It also gives you another water resist so that Suicune isn't your sole Vaporeon stop, for example. FWG is just icing on the cake. I hope this helps!

Hey, thanks for the rate! I've noticed how weak Aerodactyl is as a lead (especially when matched up against Machamp/Metagross), so I'll definitely try out lead Celebi.

 

[Shame That]

Hi there!

This is an excellent team, I can see some great momentum here. I don't see many noticable weaknesses, but I DO see some pokes dying very quickly. Aero, of course, is only there to die. But the longer Weavile is alive, the stronger this team is. Because of this, I would reccomend changing Weaviles item to a Choice Band. With a Choice Band, Weavile not only has slightly better longevity, but he hits even stronger with his great attack stat. I would normally suggest Swords Dance, but since you are aversed to it..

Not much else to say really, nice team man!

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

Weavile shouldn't be killing Flygons locked on Outrage Luke should set up on it (assuming Scarf). Replacing it with Scarf Rotom-A could work. It attracts pursuit (good for Luke) users, gives another Gyara and Scizor seeing as these two have an easier time sweeping once Suicune is at half health, and you can still u-turn out to it to kill off a lead Aero.

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Timid
252 HP / 216 Speed / 40 Sp. Atk

-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Trick
-Will-o-Wisp / Shadow Ball

The set and Ev's look funny, but I swear they work. This set has enough speed to outpace dangerous threats such as +1 Gyara, while keeping bulk so it doesn't fall over and die if you switch it into Waterfall or Bullet Punch. T-bolt and Hydro Pump form nice coverage together, and the things that can take those two moves usually dont like being tricked a scarf. The last move is Will-o-Wisp which imo is a great move to spam early in the match, but seeing as Gengar can be a pain Shadow Ball can work too.

Hope this helped, and good luck.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Weavile shouldn't be killing Flygons locked on Outrage Luke should set up on it (assuming Scarf). Replacing it with Scarf Rotom-A could work. It attracts pursuit (good for Luke) users, gives another Gyara and Scizor seeing as these two have an easier time sweeping once Suicune is at half health, and you can still u-turn out to it to kill off a lead Aero.

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Timid
252 HP / 216 Speed / 40 Sp. Atk

-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Trick
-Will-o-Wisp / Shadow Ball

The set and Ev's look funny, but I swear they work. This set has enough speed to outpace dangerous threats such as +1 Gyara, while keeping bulk so it doesn't fall over and die if you switch it into Waterfall or Bullet Punch. T-bolt and Hydro Pump form nice coverage together, and the things that can take those two moves usually dont like being tricked a scarf. The last move is Will-o-Wisp which imo is a great move to spam early in the match, but seeing as Gengar can be a pain Shadow Ball can work too.

Hope this helped, and good luck.

I'd like to avoid choice items at all costs. I hate using choice items in Gen 4, especially due to the lack of team preview.

Also, by replacing Weavile, my team has no real way of dealing with Dragonite. Suicune is way too slow to get off an Ice Beam on a +1/+1 Dragonite.

Lucario can set up only on Scarf Flygon locked into Outrage, and I hate taking the chances that I'm going up against a banded Flygon. I know banded Flygon is not as common, but if you go to http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/flygon, you'll see that a Choice Band set is listed, so someone certainly uses it.

TL;DR: Replace Weavile = All non-scarf Flygon screw me over and Dragonite 6-0's me.

I haven't even gone to attempt to test Rotom-W yet, but I can identify that I'd have a massive Gengar weakness by using it, and anyone with even a slight understanding of the metagame knows that Gengar gives Lucario a lot of trouble.

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

I'd like to avoid choice items at all costs. I hate using choice items in Gen 4, especially due to the lack of team preview.

Also, by replacing Weavile, my team has no real way of dealing with Dragonite. Suicune is way too slow to get off an Ice Beam on a +1/+1 Dragonite.

Lucario can set up only on Scarf Flygon locked into Outrage, and I hate taking the chances that I'm going up against a banded Flygon. I know banded Flygon is not as common, but if you go to http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/flygon, you'll see that a Choice Band set is listed, so someone certainly uses it.

TL;DR: Replace Weavile = All non-scarf Flygon screw me over and Dragonite 6-0's me.

I haven't even gone to attempt to test Rotom-W yet, but I can identify that I'd have a massive Gengar weakness by using it, and anyone with even a slight understanding of the metagame knows that Gengar gives Lucario a lot of trouble.

If it's not ScarfGon Ape is faster and kills it. Anyway where does Lucario usually set up on this team, dark attacks aimed at Celebi?

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

If it's not ScarfGon Ape is faster and kills it. Anyway where does Lucario usually set up on this team, dark attacks aimed at Celebi?

Normally it's after a Dark or Bug type attack aimed at Celebi, and when I can confirm that the opponent doesn't have any Gengars or Magnezones that could ruin Lucario's sweep, so it's usually pretty late in the game.

Also, Weavile is my only way of killing Dragonite locked into Outrage (which is why I specifically stated that Dragonite would 6-0 me if I didn't have Weavile), and I NEED to be able to pursuit Gengar, since Gengar gives Lucario (and a lot of my other team members as well) loads of trouble.

Don't forget to consider that Lucario is OHKOed by Offensive DD Dragonite's +1 LO Outrage (Adamant nature).

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

Normally it's after a Dark or Bug type attack aimed at Celebi, and when I can confirm that the opponent doesn't have any Gengars or Magnezones that could ruin Lucario's sweep, so it's usually pretty late in the game.

Also, Weavile is my only way of killing Dragonite locked into Outrage (which is why I specifically stated that Dragonite would 6-0 me if I didn't have Weavile), and I NEED to be able to pursuit Gengar, since Gengar gives Lucario (and a lot of my other team members as well) loads of trouble.

Don't forget to consider that Lucario is OHKOed by Offensive DD Dragonite's +1 LO Outrage (Adamant nature).

Makes sense, only thing here is that the most common (choiced) dark attack in ou would be from Tyranitar, and if it's Scarfed it'll come in and kill Luke later anyway, and bug moves aren't seen in OU outside of U-Turn. What I've been trying to get at is that you say Cune is the weak link on the team, but I think it might be Lucario (no synergy to set up, no Spikes support). I just don't know what could take it's place. There is nothing like it.

Fun Fact: If you don't care about Rotom-A (kill it with Weavile), Bullet Punch is a OHKO on ScarfTar + Gengar after Stealth Rock damage.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Makes sense, only thing here is that the most common (choiced) dark attack in ou would be from Tyranitar, and if it's Scarfed it'll come in and kill Luke later anyway, and bug moves aren't seen in OU outside of U-Turn. What I've been trying to get at is that you say Cune is the weak link on the team, but I think it might be Lucario (no synergy to set up, no Spikes support).

I'm positive it's Suicune. Suicune has done absolutely nothing for this team but kill Heatrans, which, as I said in the original post, gives none of my other team members any serious issues, and Scarf Heatrans can be dealt with according to what move they lock themselves into. Lucario also has priority to deal with the majority of faster threats.

Also, why would I use Bullet Punch on Lucario? Weavile outspeeds Scarf Tyranitar and KOs with Low Kick anyway, and Pursuit KOs Gengar regardless of whether or not Gengar switches out after SR. Bullet Punch on Lucario is like using it as an inferior Scizor.

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

Forgive me if I am wrong. I don't use Weavile, but it doesn't live very long. Don't get me wrong you play to it;s strengths on this team, but having horrible defenses + being weak to all forms of entry hazards isn't the best formula for sticking around. I just think you put too much pressure on it to nab kills (btw no sane Tyranitar will stay in on Weavile).

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Hey everyone, I've made some changes to this team:
-Colbur Berry Azelf over Celebi
-Outrage over Roost on Flygon
-Night Slash over Ice Punch on Weavile, and a different EV spread
-Gyarados over Suicune
-Scarf Heatran over Infernape
-Bullet Punch over Crunch on Lucario

Any comments on these changes would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Lazyboy]

The only slight problem I can see is that jolly Gyara can give you troubles without Suicune to check it. It can come in on a number of pokes, (heatran locked into flamethrower/earth power, weavile after intimidate and flygon at -2 sp.atk) and set up, causing your team quite a bit of trouble as it outspeeds tran and the most you can do is intimidate it with gyara or use lucario's extremespeed to check it when it's sufficiently weakened.

To resolve this I really would consider using Scarf Rotom-A as Chris P. Bacon suggested. Not only does it patch your jolly gyara weakness, it provides lucario with a decent way to set up on dark attacks aimed at it. Judging from the description of heatran, the switch would be fairly simple, as both Rotom-A and scarftran check similar threats. The biggest loss would be the fire and dragon resist, but heatran isn't checking dragons and between flygon and gyara, fire types aren't too problematic. It also gives you access to trick, allowing you to cripple walls that give gyara/lucario problems.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

The only slight problem I can see is that jolly Gyara can give you troubles without Suicune to check it. It can come in on a number of pokes, (heatran locked into flamethrower/earth power, weavile after intimidate and flygon at -2 sp.atk) and set up, causing your team quite a bit of trouble as it outspeeds tran and the most you can do is intimidate it with gyara or use lucario's extremespeed to check it when it's sufficiently weakened.

To resolve this I really would consider using Scarf Rotom-A as Chris P. Bacon suggested. Not only does it patch your jolly gyara weakness, it provides lucario with a decent way to set up on dark attacks aimed at it. Judging from the description of heatran, the switch would be fairly simple, as both Rotom-A and scarftran check similar threats. The biggest loss would be the fire and dragon resist, but heatran isn't checking dragons and between flygon and gyara, fire types aren't too problematic. It also gives you access to trick, allowing you to cripple walls that give gyara/lucario problems.

I'm testing out Scarf Rotom-H right now, and so far it's helped my team out a lot. Thanks!

 

[Alice748]

Ah, well thanks for clarifying that, but regardless taunt would be useful especially with pokes like weavile/infernape who take additional damage from life orb and possibly sandstorm

 

[Bearofhonor1]

What's your counter for a swampert? Think about using a jolly breloom over lucario.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

What's your counter for a swampert? Think about using a jolly breloom over lucario.

I combat it with Azelf's Explosion. If that doesn't work out, then a +2 Close Combat from Lucario OHKOs anyway. I've also used Breloom before, and it has never ended well. A Swords Dance set is completely outclassed by Lucario, and I've never been able to use sub-punchers to great effect. I've been told Breloom is amazing, but I can't seem to use it properly.

I'm sorry, but I just can't see Breloom working on this team. Most people will not attempt to set up on Breloom, and virtually any powerful non-resisted attack aimed towards Breloom will kill it. Also, setting up with Lucario is ridiculously easy, thanks to Rotom-H's Trick. If I attempted this with Breloom, the opponent would be very likely to bring in a rest-talker such as Rotom-A or Suicune to take the Spore.

Also, if I get rid of Lucario, I won't have a Steel-type. All teams need Steel-types.

 

[GC7]

S