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Wargle (Skeleton) (QC Approved 0/2)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by bugmaniacbob, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Was fun while it lasted
    is an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 19, 2008


    • Meet Wargle, the yankee bird. An interesting Pokemon that sadly pretty much failed to live up to the speculation surrounding it.
    • A very good 123 base Attack stat and defences of 100/75/75 make it a potent offensive threat.
    • Sadly, a low base Speed stat, mediocre movepool, and two nigh-on useless abilities means that it is pretty much outclassed by Staraptor, who has Close Combat, Double-Edge, higher Speed, and Intimidate.
    • However, higher Attack + overall defensive stats + a slightly bigger movepool makes Wargle worth using.
    name: Life Orb
    move1: Return / Crush Claw
    move2: Brave Bird
    move3: Superpower
    move4: U-turn
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    ability: Keen Eye / Encourage
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Set Comments:
    • Return is a nice, reliable STAB attack that gets plenty of neutral coverage.
    • Brave Bird is a more powerful but more dangerous STAB attack with enormous power behind it - for reference, Adamant Life Orb Wargle can 2HKO physically defensive Forretress with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage.
    • Superpower is a necessary coverage move to defeat Rock- and Steel-types that you cannot touch with your STAB moves, such as Tyranitar and Doryuuzu.
    • Lastly, U-turn can be used to scout a switch-in, but is essentially filler.
    Additional Comments:
    • Classic sweeper build - maximum Attack and Speed, remaining EVs in HP, and Life Orb for power.
    • Jolly nets you the Speed to outrun Timid Life Orb Heatran, though Adamant can also be used for the extra power.
    • Although it seems a travesty to use a rubbish ability like Keen Eye over a great ability like Encourage, Wargle has almost zero moves that can take advantage of it. It's a real waste, but the fact of the matter is, Keen Eye actually has more use competitively.
    • Shadow Claw and Rock Slide for other options - Shadow Claw hits Rotom, which Staraptor cannot do, and Rock Slide hits Zapdos, and is also boosted by Encourage, making it a better Stone Edge.
    • An interesting combination comes from the combination of Crush Claw and Encourage - even with the Encourage boost, Crush Claw turns into a slightly less powerful and slightly less accurate version of Return. However, when Crush Claw is used alongside Encourage, the Life Orb recoil does not occur, and the boost is still given. This can greatly improve Wargle's survivability, but the loss of the more reliable Return can be annoying at times, especially if Crush Claw misses at a crucial moment. This effect also does not apply to any of Wargle's other moves.
    Teammates & Counters:
    • Stealth Rock and other entry hazard support is useful to weaken the opposing team.
    • Principally, Wargle's biggest failing is its Speed, as it can 1-2HKO nigh on everything in the game with its coverage. Hence, you have to watch out for faster revenge killers such as Infernape, Garchomp, Randorosu...
    • Magnezone support can be helpful to get rid of Skarmory, Bronzong, and Doryuuzu, who can all be troublesome.
    • Wargle can break apart Fire/Water/Grass cores with the power of its STAB moves, as well as breaking down other generic stall cores, so having a setup sweeper to take advantage of this can be rewarding. Swords Dance Garchomp and Tail Glow Manaphy are both useful in this regard, especially as neither is concerned with the Steel- and Rock-types that plague Wargle.
    • Warubiaru is worth mentioning for its offensive synergy with Wargle; specifically, its ability to take out Ghost-, Rock-, and Steel-types, all of whom plague Wargle.
    name: Choice
    move1: Return
    move2: Brave Bird
    move3: Superpower
    move4: U-turn
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Band
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    ability: Keen Eye
    evs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe

    Set Comments:
    • Choice sets either boost Wargle's ailing Speed or its impressive Attack stat to act in two different scouting roles.
    • Same moves as Life Orb for same reasons.
    • Choice Band functions more as a bulky wallbreaker, while Choice Scarf is more of a revenge killer and offensive pivot.
    Additional Comments:
    • With these EVs, Jolly Choice Scarf Wargle reaches 418 Speed, sufficient to outrun Naive Choice Scarf Heatran.
    • However, if you don't care about Heatran and base 130+, Adamant should be used with Choice Scarf for the additional power. Adamant Choice Scarf Wargle reaches 388 Speed, sufficient to tie with Timid Shaymin-S.
    • Heatran is also an ideal benchmark to aim for for the Choice Band set as well.
    • Again, Rock Slide and Shadow Claw are viable alternative options.
    Teammates & Counters:
    • Rapid Spin support is essential in order to stop Wargle taking heavy damage every time it switches in. Good candidates for this are Forretress and Donphan, the former of whom resists Ice and the latter of whom resists Electric, and both can take Rock-type attacks. Starmie is another good choice as it is more offensive than the other two, enabling it to support Wargle on the attack and also take out spinblockers with its powerful STAB moves.
    • Again, Choice Band is a useful wallbreaker that can heavily damage switch-ins, so you should bring in powerful lategame sweepers to take full advantage. Manaphy and Garchomp are excellent thanks to their offensive synergy.
    • Choice Scarf as a pivot can lure in and U-turn away from switch-ins that resist its STAB moves, mainly Steel- and Rock-types such as Tyranitar and Doryuuzu, enabling you to switch in a counter or trapper such as Magnezone or Dugtrio.
    • Removing these Pokemon in this way is very beneficial to Pokemon who have trouble with them, such as Drapion and Borutorosu, both of whom also benefit from Wargle breaking down the opponent's team.
    [Team Options]
    • Support: Rapid Spin is essential to make the most of Wargle's increased bulk, and can be used effectively by such Pokemon as Donphan and Forretress. Both of these Pokemon are also useful for Stealth Rock or entry hazard support. Starmie is another effective spinner that also provides offensive support. Paralysis support could be useful from something like Celebi.
    • Offensive Complements: Wargle can lure in and break down or weaken bulky Steel- and Rock-types - Latios, Latias, and Alakazam among others value the weakening of Tyranitar, Scizor, and Metagross greatly. Also great value as a wallbreaker - Fire/Water/Grass and other common stall cores can be worn down with reasonable ease, meaning that Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar and Gyarados can have an easier time against the opponent. Lastly, Pokemon such as Groudon and Machamp who are strong against Rock- and Steel-types are helpful.
    • Defensive complements: Wargle's three weaknesses are Electric, Rock, and Ice. Pokemon who can usually take all three of these include Nattorei, Swampert, and Magnezone, the latter of whom can also trap and OHKO Steel-types. It resists Bug and Grass and is immune to Earthquake, so can make a good partner to those likely to draw in these attacks, such as Celebi, Swampert, and Heatran respectively.
    [Optional Changes]
    • A number of useful setup moves - Bulk Up, Claw Sharpen, Cheer Up (the former is almost always the best choice).
    • Shadow Claw for Rotom and other nasty Ghost-types.
    • Rock Slide for Zapdos and an Encourage boost.
    • Tailwind for team support.
    • Thrash/Vengeance if you don't like Return.
    • Rotom.
    • Skarmory, Metagross, Bronzong, Steelix.
    • Rhyperior, Regirock.
    • Hippowdon, Donphan, Gliscor.
    • Revenge killers: Aakeosu, Weavile, Jolteon, Starmie... pretty much everything with a super effective move really.
    [Dream World]
    • Wargle actually gets an ability of any use from the Dream World: Competitive Spirit, which raises its Attack when its stats are lowered.
    • Unfortunately, yet again we are let down by empty promises from the ability description - the boost applies only to external stat-lowering, and not self-inflicted stat lowering, so the use of Superpower does not activate the boost.
    • However, this does mean that Wargle is not only effectively immune to Intimidate, which is very useful by itself, it in fact benefits from it enormously. Firstly its Attack drops to -1 from Intimidate, but is then boosted two stages to +1 by Competitive Spirit, making it all the more powerful. If nothing else, this is a much more useful ability than Keen Eye at least.
  2. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Was fun while it lasted
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    Sep 19, 2008
    Done (I think)
  3. mtr


    Jan 31, 2009
    I think Nintendo needs to completely can the idea of a Normal/Flying type. We have too many. At least this guy gets Bulk Up, which is enough reason to consider it over Staraptor, depending on the checks people employ against this guy.

    Mention Starmie as a useful spinner where you have Forretress and Donphan.

    I'm confused as to why you would consider Encourage useless. I don't know much about the mechanics, but it seems that having more attack power would never hurt, since Wargle doesn't care about the secondary effects.
  4. Stellar

    is a Live Chat Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Jan 3, 2007
    Encourage boosts the power of moves with a secondary effect. None of the moves on any of the sets are boosted by Encourage, making it useless.
  5. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Was fun while it lasted
    is an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 19, 2008
    I didn't really think Bulk Up was that good since really, the best way to get rid of Wargle would seem to be to outspeed and OHKO him, which between Stealth Rock and his own poor Speed is not a difficult feat at all. After Stealth Rock, everything faster with a super effective move can essentially OHKO, and investing heavily in defensive stats comes at the expense of offensive stats.

    Will do.

    According to the BW research thread, Encourage only has any effect whatsoever on moves with secondary effects on the opponent - which means it doesn't affect Return, Brave Bird, Superpower, or U-turn in any way at all. Rock Slide is pretty much the only useful move in its entire movepool that is affected, so yeah, it's pretty useless.
    EDIT: yeah too late
  6. Colonel M

    Colonel M Top of my game!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Aug 5, 2007
    The only ones are pretty much down to:

    - Rock Slide
    - Rock Tomb
    - Rock Smash

    Pretty pathetic.
  7. Rising_Dusk

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    Dec 27, 2009
    Fixed spacing, marked as done.
  8. Colon Three :3

    Colon Three :3

    Sep 29, 2010
    Wargle benefits a lot from receiving Baton Pass boosts to speed and attack. At +2 speed, Max-Speed Wargle will have 568 speed which allows it to outrun many sweepers (those that can actually outrun it, weather sweepers, tend to not have their speed maxed out, and the only ones who have a higher base speed are Doryuuzu and Kingdra, both will be outrun if they don't have a positive nature and a significant EV investment). At +2 attack, absolutely nothing can safely switch in to Wargle, since his type coverage and sheer power will allow for most pokemon to be KO'd either from taking an attack when switching in or by the attack right after. Swords dance Blaziken or Ninjask can set Wargle up to sweep a large portion of people's team's. After receiving boosts to attack and speed, the best thing people can do is to have Wargle KO itself by sacrificing pokemon to take hits from Brave Bird until Wargle is taken out which will take a while due to Wargle's amazing HP.
  9. JSND


    Jun 28, 2010
    All weather sweeper now usualy run full sped but ot for the + nature.
    Dory for example has max of 606 and 564 min IIRC with max speed.
    And for that role it is utterly outclassed by Staraptor IMO

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