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Weatherless Hyper Offense

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by emerus, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. emerus


    Jan 29, 2013
    Hello Smogon, I'm new to Pokemon altogether and am very interested in becoming one of the best trainers. I wanted to try a team that tends to be a tier below the standard Rain/Sand/Sun/dragon offensive teams and try to compete against them.



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    Knowing that I wanted to go Hyper Offensive, I started with three main options:

    The former two for Light Screen support and the latter for reliable entry hazards. The light screen style appears to me to be more about brute force and nothing more, whereas with entry hazards, I can be more flexible in my strategy.

    Next, I really wanted a way to keep the common spinners in check. So I narrowed it down to three more Pokemon.

    Here, my noobiness started to creep into the forefront of my decision making. I simply chose the most commonly partnered Ghost; Gengar. I experimented with a Specs Jellicent and it remains a powerful alternative. However, it is a much less reliable spin-blocker.

    Knowing that I was headed into an offensive team, I chose my next two Pokemon to compliment my core. Lucario/Gengar is the offensive core, hoping to force a lot of switches and poke holes into the opponents defense. Conkeldurr is there to absorb status' aimed at Lucario and makes a fine switch-in for some of Gengar's checks while also providing a second much-needed priority move.

    With this core, I am completely pleased. I see no glaring weaknesses that my supporting cast shouldn't be able to handle, the trouble is finding the right pokes. My list began huge and after nearly 100 games using the aforementioned core, it's been narrowed slightly. I found myself left with a list looking exactly like this:


    Scarf Users:


    At this point, I've been overwhelmed and have decided "less theory-pooping, more GG"

    Based on usage stats and typing, I soon decided on Breloom/Heatran.

    Without further ado, here is the team:

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    Deoxys-D @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Magic Coat
    - Night Shade

    Almost every OU team requires a Stealth Rock user. The most offensive and most defensive of which benefit even more. Deoxys-D is one of the easiest to setup with and fills the lead role nicely. As a spiker, I've sacrificed some reliability (with Taunt/Mental Herb) for some extra up-front damage in Night Shade and Rocky Helmet. I suicide lead with Deoxys-D about 75% of the time. While Deoxys does well as a lead, Espeon poses a big threat, as does a 'Banded Scizor.

    Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Disable
    - Substitute

    I use Gengar primarily as a stall-breaker while also acting as a great scouting set and spin-blocker. Nothing special in the moveset. Hidden Power: Fire seems like a viable option instead of Disable, giving me an answer to Skarmory/Bronzong/Forretress, however, I keep Disable to handle the increasingly less-popular Gliscor. As explained above, there are few powerful alternatives to a Gengar in an offensive team. Life Orb/Pain Split is the original moveset that I tried, however, the tried-and-true SubDisable seems to be proper in this lineup.

    Conkeldurr (M) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Facade
    - Payback

    A main switch-in after Spiking and/or showing Gengar. This bulkyFighting type is a class above the rest. The priority moves on this team are life-savers, helping me deal with Dragonite and many hazard-weakened ScarfUsers. I went with Flame Orb/Guts to soak status effects and for additional power. With Drain Punch and some bulk, this guy doesn't have any problems poking holes in the opposing teams.

    Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance
    - Ice Punch

    Without a doubt, the Kobe Bryant of this team. Swords Dance Luke reliably scores kills with his great coverage and out-of-this-world attack stat. The sweep hinges on removing the oppositions revenge-killers and physical walls. Hence the support from Gengar/Breloom/Heatran. I can't imagine a HyperOffensive team without this pokemon, he is a core part of my team.

    Breloom (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Facade

    With his speed and ability to take some hits due to excellent typing, Breloom makes a reliable scout and offensive pivot. Because I'm often using him to force switches early on, I decided on a set with Poison Heal and Substitute. Invaluable against rain teams. A Technician based set would provide me with even more priority moves, but, the wall-breaking power of SubPunch can't be passed on. This choice compounds my weakness to Espeon and other Deoxys-D.

    Heatran (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Overheat
    - Flamethrower
    - Earth Power
    - Dragon Pulse

    Primarily a wallbreaker and revenge-killer, Heatran was the last Pokemon I decided on. Because the core Pokemon of this team suffer terrible weaknesses to Sun teams, Scizor, Latios, and Latias, I was in need of a reliable counter. Heatran is able to force switches and easily score kills even on neutral hitting moves with his STAB Overheat. He's on the path to prove himself as more than a simple band-aid.

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    To be added:


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    My first first team and first post, I hope of many. I'm dedicated to making this core(Lucario/Gengar/Conkeldurr) work and want to further explore my options - with your help. I admire many of the posters on RMT and can't wait to learn from you!
  2. Reymedy

    Reymedy Colt Python 357 Magnum.
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Oct 17, 2012
    Okay, nice team, I'm happy to rate a HO weatherless, that's what I love to play.
    So, checking your team building, the start seems pretty classic in Deoxys-D and Gengar. You wanna play Luke which is cool and Conkeldurr aswell, I like that.
    So for my rate, I'll try to keep intact those 4 pokemons (not change them I mean).

    Here I go for the weaknesses that I can see :

    - Your scarfer is slow, yes it is terribly slow. Heatran got a nice surprise value etc but in HO when you can't switch so much because it's risky as hell considering how frail the pokemons are, you need to have the fastest scarfers, to revenge kill stuff. Because the games will be really fast paced, you can't afford having all your team outsped, even with priorities.
    For instance, you're really weak to a Scarf Keldeo. Like REALLY weak. And this was just an example. In fact, the worst thing would be some kind of CM+3atk Keldeo because at +1 he could probably just kill everybody under Rain.
    Another example, Lati@s are really threatening for your team. Scarfer or not, they kill a large part of your team and you have almost no chance of beating them.
    Sadly you're also weak to Terrakion Scarf who gets a kill each time he comes in. Well, many offenses are weak to these threats but you must focus on two things :
    => What can I do to NOT let them come in
    => What can I do once they are here (meaning that you should be able to set-up/trap etc when they are on the field)
    That's why a scarf (which is a role usually leaving many possibilities to set-up after a kill for the opponent) must be oriented for the late game in a HO.

    - Another weakness, could be your total lack of possibilities to revenge kill dragons. To me, in like every HO, you need something like ScarfTios or Ice Shard to deal with those. Else you'll end up being forced to sacrifice 3 members each time a Dragonite or an Haxorus Dragon Dances.

    - Sun teams will probably crush you. One thing is hard for the HO, it's to deal with Venusaur. Because this thing outspeeds every classic scarf, it is really hard to deal for the HO lacking some specific answer. Here you have Heatran, however, given that it's your "revenge killer" you can be sure 100% that after you do a kill with him, Dugtrio will come and kill you.
    And well, let's assume that you can kill the Duggy, who knows if the Venusaur got Earthquake.

    So, I really believe that Heatran is a bad choice (even if he adds a good defensive value, I can clearly understand why you chose him), let's fix that !

    The changes :

    - Change this Scarf. You don't really need one, but getting a late game cleaner would be cool.
    So, since you want to keep your core, I propose you to try Scarf Gengar. Gengar is a really versatile pokemon with an amazing movepool. ShadowB/FocusB got perfect coverage and if you add Thunder to the mix, you have a really potent antispinner able to score a surprise kill on those pesky Rain Dish Tentacruel.
    As last slot, Destiny Bond, while really hard to master on a scarf set, can save your life.
    Imagine, an unbroken Multiscale Dragonite at +1 against you, you don't want to risk anyswitch, so you go to Gengar and just DBond him peacefully. You can also surprise kill Starmie for instance.
    His base speed of 110 is just what you need to outspeed Keldeo/Terrak.

    - Now, I don't really like your Breloom at all. It's pretty easy to wall, slowing down the tempo of your team and forcing your to switch to another sweeper eventually. You must focus on having nearly unwallable sweepers.
    For that, I propose you Mamoswine instead of Breloom.
    You get a LIFE SAVING priority to revenge kill Dragons and break through usual physical walls such as Landorus-T/Gliscor as well as a ridiculous coverage to put the pressure on the enemy's team.

    - Since Skarmory will be a pain, I propose you a versatile monster. MixMence.
    Indeed, when looking at your team, people will assume that Mence is the Scarfer, it's all good for your Gengar.
    Moreover, Mence is an incredible lure if people can't guess the set.
    I've been wondering on the item you could use, I think you should try a Draco Gem. You could also give a shot to a Sash set. Keep in mind that you have to hide the item, so people assume that you're choiced.
    Moreover, Mence/Luke is an amazing combo since they set-up on each other's weaknesses.

    - I'd change some sets. Give a try to Bullet Punch over Ice Punch on Lucario. Mence and Mamoswine already take care of Gliscor/Landorus-T (indeed, Draco Meteor just destroys them). And Bullet Punch will help you to kill Terrakion.

    - Put Taunt over Magic Coat or Night Shade on Deoxys-D.
    Especially if you try Focus Sash Mence, try a MagicCoat+Taunt Deoxys-D. Anyway, a fast Deoxys-D unable to taunt is pretty much a waste to be honest.
    It's also annoying when they guy against you is spamming SR or something like that while you're spamming Magic Coat. Same goes for people who want to set-up on you at start.

    The Sets :

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    Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunder
    - Destiny Bond

    Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    Thick Fat
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Icycle Crash
    - SuperPower

    Salamence @ Draco Gem / Focus Sash
    130 Atk / 126 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake

    This set is just incredible, seriously.

    I hope I helped, good luck with your HO team !

    *If some sets seem weird, or less efficient, remember that the surprise value and the ability to bluff the oponent is CRUCIAL in a HO. Lure, bait, and stab in the back your ennemy is something you should aim for !

    TL;DR :

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    Deoxys-D => Taunt over Magic Coat/Night SHade
    Lucario => Bullet Punch over Ice Punch
    Gengar => Scarf Gengar
    MixMence over Breloom
    Mamoswine over Heatran
  3. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    May 14, 2011
    Hi, there

    I noticed the various threats you listed, to solve those Pokemon to water, ie Gastrodon, Slowbro and Jellicent would give Seed Bomb> Facade Breloom, with which you can hit these three Pokemon, especially the first two, against Slowbro is however necessary be covered by the Substitute, as it may have Psyshock that kills you.

    While resolving other threats that remained Skamory, Espeon, Tentacruel and Sun Dragons team propose to enter Rock Polish Landorus> Conkeldurr which I think is the weakest member of the team and useless for many reasons, first is too slow to make big damage in the current metagame, especially against rain offensive team, his only move that can put pressure right is the priority, for the rest attack per second and it is not always a good thing, without that will count against the Sandstorm team will take very little damage from of Sand, Entry hazards and Flame Orb, also gets a major weakness to Psychic moves. While Rock Polish Landorus, in addition to solving many of the threats listed are in excellent synergy with Lucario as one hits from the physical side, the other by the special addition to this Landorus is immune to Ground moves that Lucario is weak, while Lucario resists to ice which Landorus is weak.

    Another Weak for your team is Keldeo, to solve this problem i would change the revenge-killer Heatran for Scarf Latios. Latios is able to kill Keldeo with Psyshock that is STAB, also just as Heatran Latios, can help against Sunny Day Team.

    Moving on to smaller changes would change the set of Deoxys-D to put Deoxys-D Red Card> Rocky Helmet and Taunt> Night Shade. These changes for some reason, Red Card is useful because it can send by setupper annoying for your team and that could make him very sick, Rocky Helmet more than cause some damage to Pokemon that does not use physical moves, best guard against any setupper to me, Taunt instead used to lock the setup of the main wall, and to make other Pokemon do not put your entry hazards on the ground, since the main purpose of Deoxys-D is to set everything up so soon sweep of your Pokemon.

    While Lucario would spend a Bullet Punch> Ice Punch, since it would be useful only against Gliscor or Landorus-T bulky, because after a Swords Dance Extremespeed with the dragons kill them easy with the support of Stealth Rock. Bullet Punch is useful against Gengar, Terrakion, Scarf Tyranitar, for example, that may keep the sweep easy after having danced.

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    Seed Bomb > Facade (for Breloom)

    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psychock
    - Trick

    Red Card > Rocky Helmet (for Deoxys-D)
    Taunt > Night Shade (for Deoxys-D)
    Bullet Punch > Ice Punch (for Lucario)
  4. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Oct 9, 2012
    Ok seriously i agree with what remedy and mr green suggested, mostly the gengar and landorus suggestions, however i think you can use some differents set if you dotn want to change your pokemon.
    If you are going to take Conkeldurr, please put Bulk up over facade. I know flame orb already give you a nice power up, but with bulk up you have more chances sweep teams, like some rain stall teams that relies on status to beat conkeldurr.
    If you are not going to change Breloom then, i think the classic sword dance set just works better. Sub punch breloom just doesnt work much for me, because its just a set that annoys the opponent without having any boost or moves that seriously dent everything. The standard set with Life orb, 252 Atk / 252 Spe, adamant nature and a set of Sword dance / Bullet seed / mach punch / Spore is what you should use. Technichan will let you power up your moves, so put it over poison heal. The point of this set is to spore something slower, setup a sword dance while they switch out, and then ko anything with the priority mach punch. Its an overall better set if you really want to use breloom.
    For the rest, read what green and remedy said, they both gave you nice suggestions. Gl!
  5. emerus


    Jan 29, 2013
    I've tested all of these changes and just find that it's not simple as moving/changing one pokemon - the chain reaction is so big. The Lucario/Deoxys/Gengar core seems wonderful on paper but making up for the major weaknesses to Lati@s, Mamoswine, Cloyster, Sun teams(!!!), and other dragons with the three remaining slots seems to be too much. I've since ran into some Luke/Deoxys HO teams that forego a Spinblocker for, I presume, this exact reason. The closest I came to being satisfied is this team:

    I thought with the offensive FWG, I could force and predict a lot of switches but the weaknesses to Mamoswine, Lati@s, Volcarona, and sun line-ups is still apparent. And of course, the team core has been derailed almost completely.

    Thank you guys. For my first RMT, it's no suprise that the end result was somewhat mediocre(keep walling on ladder at 1500). But I've learned a lot and have since made several teams that are a better fit for my style of play.

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