Weezing (GP 2/2)

Woodchuck

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QC: 3/3
writeup is done
GP: 2/2
finished!

Weezing

[Overview]
<p>Save for a few brief stints in OU, Weezing has been a defensive behemoth in the UU tier throughout its existence. With the release of Black and White, Weezing has returned to its original role as the best Fighting-type counter in UU. Weezing's Poison typing, along with its ability, Levitate, gives it the lone weakness to Psychic-type attacks, an immunity to Ground-type moves, and, more importantly, a useful Fighting-type resistance. This, coupled with Weezing's excellent Defense and access to useful moves such as Haze, Pain Split, and Will-O-Wisp, makes it the ideal addition to any team plagued by Fighting-type threats such as Hitmontop.</p>

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Flamethrower / Haze
move 2: Thunderbolt / Haze
move 3: Pain Split
move 4: Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers
ability: Levitate
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Weezing can take advantage of its high Defense, typing, access to coverage options such as Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, and usable base 85 Special Attack to serve as a utility counter to many physical attackers in UU. Flamethrower and Thunderbolt enable Weezing to effectively counter physical attackers such as Heracross and Swellow. However, either can be replaced by Haze, which allows Weezing to stop most setup sweepers in their tracks, even those which pack Substitute. Pain Split turns Weezing's low base 65 HP into an asset, giving it a form of recovery, while Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers, also chipping away at their HP. The combination of Pain Split and Will-O-Wisp also allows Weezing to actually outstall Chansey; Pain Split has 32 PP, while Softboiled has merely 16.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EVs maximize Weezing's physical bulk; investing in its weaker Special Defense will be a futile endeavor, as Weezing dies to special attacks in any case. Fire Blast is a viable option to run over Flamethrower, as it allows Weezing to 2HKO offensive Torterra; however, Fire Blast is generally inferior due to its lower PP and lower accuracy. Hidden Power Grass hits Rhyperior and Water-types, but lacks coverage otherwise. Sludge Bomb can be used for a STAB move, but it has poor coverage and can end up poisoning a foe that Weezing would have rather burned with Will-O-Wisp.</p>

<p>Weezing has issues with strong special attackers thanks to its low Special Defense. Psychic-types in particular can easily dispatch Weezing with their super effective attacks. Thus, Weezing appreciates the support of specially defensive Pokemon that can take Psychic-type attacks, such as Empoleon or Chansey. Will-O-Wisp must also not be thrown about recklessly, as Weezing could end up burning Guts abusers such as Heracross; however, Heracross is put in its place easily with Flamethrower.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Explosion can put a dent in Pokemon such as Chansey that Weezing can do little to, but it won't be hitting very hard as Explosion no longer halves Defense. Weezing also has the movepool to run a special attacking set, but it doesn't hit nearly hard enough to be anything more than a surprise gimmick. Weezing can run Taunt to prevent things from setting up on it, but it won't work as well without reliable recovery, and Weezing already has Haze to eliminate stat boosts. Weezing also gets Rest and Sleep Talk; however, with the Sleep counter resetting on every switch out, it's not as effective as it has been in previous generations.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>Psychic-type special attackers such as Alakazam are Weezing's prime checks, as they will destroy it with their STAB attacks. Weezing also despises faster special attackers with access to Substitute, such as Mismagius, as it has no way of damaging them. Strong special attacks in general are sufficient to break through Weezing's low Special Defense. Pokemon that don't fear burns or can get rid of the status, such as Roserade, can just switch in and set up Toxic Spikes, though Roserade must be wary of Flamethrower. While Weezing has Haze to deter stat boosters, it can't do anything to prevent hazards or other supporting moves from being used if it doesn't opt for Taunt. Fire-types such as Victini, Arcanine, and Houndoom can easily beat Weezing, as they are immune to burns and aren't hit for super effective damage by any of Weezing's attacks; Houndoom even receives a Flash Fire boost when it switches in on Will-O-Wisp or Flamethrower.</p>
 
I don't think Sludge Bomb deserves a slash. Poison is a bad offensive type yadayada, and it could also be annoying if you accidentally poisoned something that you wanted to burn. Maybe mention it in Other Options since it's its only decently powered STAB move.

Fire Blast should probably be somewhere. Weezing could appreciate the power boost over Flamethrower.
 

prem

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i think haze should jsut be put in OO entirely, because the only steel types in the tier are empoleon, registeel, durant, and cobalion. the first 2 dont really set up (until petya comes out. agility doesnt matter tbh), durant is instantly killed with fire blast (im pretty sure it 2hkos with iron head at +1 so dont be retarded) and cobalion is horribly walled by weezing

edit: if it doesnt hit through subs then haze is better... (thanks for letting me know that chou)
 

Chou Toshio

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I disagree. In fact, I'd say Haze should be the primary option. Why? because Clear Smog doesn't affect opponents behind Substitutes. This is a BIG problem, because many setup sweepers love to use Substitute, and Baton Pass chains have the move on almost every teammate. So yeah, Haze > Clear smog frankly, since the damage Clear Smog deals is pretty trivial anyway.

Taunt is an issue, but Substitute is the far more common move. In fact, the only common setup sweeper I can think of that uses Taunt > Substitute is Cobalion... so, that's a moot point... Missy usually uses Taunt with W-o-W an Sub with CM unless I'm mistaken...
 

Chou Toshio

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I think this looks good. One thing I would mention when talking about W-o-W in Checks/Counters is that Weezing also despises faster Substitute users that have special attacks, ie. Pokemon like Mismagus.

Also, Taunt deserves a mention other options, giving Weezing a way to stop things from setting up on it (and combining it with W-o-W, though Weezing can't do it like Mew without a good recovery move...)

Put in those points and

QC APPROVED (1/3)
 

Chou Toshio

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oh, might also want to mention in checks/counters that thanks to its immunity to toxic, Pain Split/W-o-W Weezing actually beats Chansey, if you're willing to stall it out completely lol
 

PK Gaming

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Mention Fire types in the counters section (Victini, Arcanine and especially Houndoom, all of them destroy Weezing)

QC APPROVED (2/3)
 

Woodchuck

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oh, might also want to mention in checks/counters that thanks to its immunity to toxic, Pain Split/W-o-W Weezing actually beats Chansey, if you're willing to stall it out completely lol
Does it? Or does Weezing have to run Pain Split / Wow / Taunt ? idk could you please clarify
and i don't think that it goes in the Checks and Counters section, maybe additional comments? :confused:

Mention Fire types in the counters section (Victini, Arcanine and especially Houndoom, all of them destroy Weezing)

QC APPROVED (2/3)
alright, thanks!
changes made, Chou i'm not sure but I think I'll stick it in AC as I haven't mentioned Chansey as a check or counter.
 

Chou Toshio

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Ah yeah, it might not even be worth mentioning... I just mean that Weezing can PP Stall Chansey out with its 32 PP Pain Split, which far outclasses Chansey's mere 16 Softboils
 

Woodchuck

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Alright, thanks!
Chou, I'll leave it in AC, when I write it up I'll call it a "last-ditch scenario" :P
 

Lemonade

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unfish ch-ch-check
[Overview]
<p>Weezing has been a UU Defensive wall ever since its debut in RBY, except for only enjoying a brief stint in OU during the 4th generation. However, With the release of Black and White, Weezing has returned to its original role as the best Fighting-type counter in UU. Weezing's Poison typing, [comma] combined with its ability, Levitate, give it only one weakness, to Psychic-type attacks. This, coupled with Weezing's excellent Defense, Fighting resistance, and access to Will-o-Wisp, make Weezing an effective physical wall.</p>

[SET]
name: Utility
move 1: Haze / Clear Smog
move 2: Flamethrower / Thunderbolt
move 3: Pain Split
move 4: Will-O-Wisp
item: Leftovers
ability: Levitate
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Weezing can take advantage of its Defense and typing to serve as a utility counter to many physical attackers in UU. Haze allows Weezing to clear away stat boosts, even those of a Pokemon behind a Substitute. Clear Smog is an inferior option due to the inability to hit Steel-types or through Substitute, it not hitting through Substitutes or hitting Steel-types, but it does have the advantage of bypassing not being blocked by Taunt. In the second slot, Weezing carries an attacking move. Flamethrower assists Weezing in taking out Heracross and Grass-types such as Torterra, while Thunderbolt allows Weezing to hit Water-types like Kabutops hard. Pain Split allows Weezing to recover health, while and Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers. and also has a useful The 12.5% damage per turn is useful, as It is worth noting that with Pain Split and Will-O-Wisp, Weezing can actually outstall Chansey; Pain Split has 32 PP, while Softboiled has merely 16.</p>

<p>The EVs with this set are to hit the extra point only a single extra point....? in Defense, then cover Weezing's lower Special Defense to allow it to withstand weak special attacks.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Fire Blast is a viable option to run over Flamethrower, as it allows Weezing to 2HKO Offensive Torterra; however, Fire Blast is generally inferior thanks due to its lower PP and worse Accuracy. Hidden Power Grass hits Rhyperior and Water-types,[comma] but lacks coverage otherwise. Sludge Bomb can be used for an STAB move, but Poison is a poor offensive type and this may end up Poisoning a foe that Weezing would rather have Will-O-Wisped. </p>

<p>Weezing has issues with strong Special Attackers thanks to its low Special Defense. Psychic-types in particular can easily dispatch Weezing with super effective attacks. Because of this, Weezing is best partnered with specially defensive Pokemon that can take Psychic-typed attacks, such as Empoleon or Chansey. Weezing also must be wary of accidentally Burning a Guts abuser such as Heracross; however, Flamethrower allows Weezing to defeat Heracross easily.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Explosion can be run to put a dent in things like Chansey that Weezing can do little to, but it won't be hitting very hard as Explosion no longer halves Defense. Weezing also has the movepool for a special attacking set, but it doesn't hit nearly hard enough to be anything more than a surprise gimmick. Weezing can also run Taunt to prevent things from setting up on it; however, it won't work as well without reliable recovery, and Weezing already has Haze to eliminate stat boosts.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>Any Psychic-typed special attacker will OHKO Weezing with Psychic. Weezing also despises faster Substitute users that have special attacks, such as Mismagius; Weezing has no way of damaging them. Strong special attacks in general are sufficient to break through Weezing. Pokemon that don't fear burns or can get rid of the status, such as Roserade, can just switch in and set up Toxic Spikes, though Roserade must be wary of Flamethrower. While Weezing has Haze to deter stat boosters, it can't do anything to prevent hazards or other supporting moves from being used if it doesn't opt for Taunt. Fire-types such as Victini, Arcanine, and Houndoom can easily beat Weezing,[comma] as they are immune to burns and aren't hit for super effective damage by any of Weezing's attacks; Houndoom gets a special mention for receiving a Flash Fire boost when it switches in on Will-O-Wisp.</p>
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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Before we go any further... Crossposted from another thread

I would like to bring up an issue with this analysis: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3452326

The problem is the EVs this guy has decided to give Weezing and that it has already reached the GP mark. He has given Weezing 160 SpDef EVs (sounds really random) without giving a valid description as to why. This was his explanation: "The EVs with this set are to hit the extra point in Defense, then cover Weezing's lower Special Defense to allow it to withstand weak special attacks."

Now if we look at the UU tier, we can easily observe the role of Weezing in it. Weezing is a great counter to the following common UU Pokemon: Donphan, Hitmontop, Heracross, physical attacker Arcanine, Rhyperior, Flygon, Mamoswine, physical attacker Cobalion, physical attacker DD Kingdra, Bisharp, Escavalier, Weavile, Ambipom, and the list goes on.

Lets compare the damages between the EVs he invested on Weezing over a max HP and Def Weezing.

A poisoned 252 Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Close Combat vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 50.3% - 59.28%
A poisoned 252 Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Close Combat vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 44.61% - 52.69%
- A scenario from a 2HKO to a 3HKO after SR damage.

252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 38.62% - 45.81% (3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Weezing: 34.13% - 40.42% (3-4 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Changes the scenario from a 3HKO to a possible 4HKO

252 +1 Atk Kingdra Outrage vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 55.69% - 65.87% (2 hits to KO with Leftovers)
252 +1 Atk Kingdra Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Weezing: 49.4% - 58.38% (2-3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Changes the scenario from a 2HKO to a possible 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Escavalier Iron Head vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 47.6% - 55.99% (2-3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
252 Atk Choice Band Escavalier Iron Head vs 252 HP/252 Def Weezing: 42.22% - 49.7% (3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Changes the scenario from a possible 2HKO to a 3HKO

Now what about the random 160 SpDef he has invested? What are those good for? Lets see...

0 SpAtk Milotic Scald vs 252 HP/160 SpDef Weezing: 28.14% - 33.53% (4-5 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Takes Scald better from Milotic, but what's it going to do to Milotic?

252 SpAtk Life Orb Nidoking Ice Beam vs 252 HP/160 SpDef Weezing: 47.31% - 55.39% (2-3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Gets a 3HKO opportunity from Nidoking, but what's it going to do to Nidoking?

Ugh... I really can't think of any reasons to give Weezing SpDef.
I have to agree with him. Unless you can give specific reasons Weezing should be running Special Defense, change the EVs to 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Special Defense.
 
I don't like the slashing of EITHER Thunderbolt or Flamethrower. I think both need to be on the same set to let Weezing do what it needs to do. Why Haze away boosts when you can just use Thunderbolt and Flamethrower in conjunction to beat what you need to.
 

Woodchuck

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Without Haze, Weezing can't prevent things like Mismagius from setting up on him. IMHO Weezing needs the capability of stopping setup more than having more coverage.
 

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