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[WIP] Empoleon

Discussion in 'Global Battle Union' started by ~Golden Emp, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. ~Golden Emp

    ~Golden Emp

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    Far from Finished. Little by little....
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Empoleon might be called un-useful, and obsolete. I agree in some way, because its "best" set, the sub-petaya late-game sweeper, isn't as threatening in 5th gen as it was in 4th. It even fell from his OU position to UU this generation. In the long run, it might just not be as effective as before in Standard, because it won't be able to endure the battle's pace and duration...

    Except this is not standard.

    Sporting 11 resistances, 1 inmunity and only 3 weaknesses; Very good defenses at 84/88/101, and an almost excellent Sp. Attack of Base 111; some support moves and many offensive moves, Empoleon is a very unexpected threat to consider.
    Because GBU Battles are really fast-paced, and Empoleon is not the most used Pokémon in the format, it has a unique element of surprise. That would be one of the main points to use the Metallic Penguin.

    Summary:

    Water/Steel

    Abilities:
    Torrent: When HP is below 1/3, Water moves get a 1.5x power boost.
    DW Ability: Defiant: When stats are lowered, the Pokémon gets a +2 in Atk.

    Base Stats:
    HP: 84
    Atk: 86
    Def: 88
    Sp. Atk: 111
    Sp. Def: 101
    Spe: 60

    "Usable" Support Moves:
    Feather-Dance
    Icy Wind
    Knock Off
    Roar
    Stealth Rock*
    Swagger
    Toxic
    Yawn

    *=SR might prove not to be useful in GBU battles because of their fast-paced nature.

    "Usable" Offensive Moves:
    Aqua Jet
    Blizzard
    Drill Peck*
    Earthquake*
    Grass Knot
    Hidden Power
    Hydro Pump
    Ice Beam
    Rock Slide*
    Surf

    *=Physical sets might prove not to be useful, because there is hardly any good moment to be setting SD, as you'll be wanting him mostly for taking hits.

    Sets:

    Singles:

    Anti-Lead
    Empoleon @Focus Sash
    Mild or Rash Nature
    [Torrent]
    EV's: 148 Atk, 252 Sp. Atk, 108 Speed
    -Hydro Pump/Surf
    -Aqua Jet
    -Ice Beam/Hidden Power Electric/Hidden Power Fire
    -Grass Knot/Hidden Power Electric/Hidden Power Fire

    Had you ever seen this set in a GBU Single battle? Probably no, because of the low usage Empoleon gets.
    Despite being the Tank it is, this set focuses on a fast offense, not on taking hits.
    The choice between Hydro Pump and Surf is the classic argument between Accuracy and Power. Surf is 100% accurate, but Hydro Pump is 25 points stronger, but with 20% less Acc.
    Aqua Jet is needed for taking out weakened and Activated-Sash ones.
    The last two moves are for rounding coverage. HP Elec hits Gyarados and Vaporeon harder than Grass Knot. HP Fire hits Ferrothorn. Ice Beam hits Dragons, and Grass Knot hits Bulky Waters.

    Mild/Rash Nature helps with Sash activation, which in turn will activate Torrent, allowing for overpowered water moves.
    108 Speed EV's outspeed Min. Speed Base 70's, like Metagross and Politoed. 252 in Sp. Atk is to hit the hardest possible, and the rest goes in Atk to power Aqua Jet up.
  2. ~Golden Emp

    ~Golden Emp

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    Oh, and I'm taking suggestions.
  3. Joel

    Joel

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    (bump)

    How about these for doubles/triples...(currently untested)

    Tickle Me Empoleon (Physical)
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Defiant
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
    Moveset:
    -Agility
    -Waterfall
    -Earthquake
    -Aqua Jet

    Tickle Empoleon to achieve -1/-1 Atk/Def, while gaining +2 attack.

    This is maybe more suited for Triples with one Tickle team mate, and one Follow Me/Rage Powder team mate if you want to get the Agility off.

    Tickle Me Empoleon (Mixed)
    Nature: Mild
    Ability: Defiant
    EVs: 252 SpAtk/252 Speed/4 Atk
    Moveset:
    -Hydro Pump
    -Ice Beam
    -Aqua Jet/Hidden Power Electric
    -Earthquake/Waterfall

    I'm drawing a blank on the fourth move slot honestly. Same premise as Physical set. No need to boost anything yourself in this set though, since SpAtk is not lowered. Virtually free +2 Speed can't be a bad thing.

    Impish nature could be used, as well if you find the Defense drop unfavourable.
  4. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Boosting is very difficult to use in doubles and triples play due to the speed at which the games move, and to be honest, if I was using a boosting attacker, why wouldn't I just use Weavile or something that can already outspeed about everything as well as boost?

    In addition, Defiant raises Attack two stages, not Speed =\
  5. Joel

    Joel

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    >_< My bad (will edit). Agility then in the obvious spot, and remove special set in favor of mixed.

    Either way, physical boost w/ priority and lots of resists is still decent.
  6. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
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    Defiant does not boost attack from teammate induced drops
  7. Joel

    Joel

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    >_< Damn, I thought I was on to something decent for a minute.
  8. ~Golden Emp

    ~Golden Emp

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    I've been using a Doubles Utility set lately:

    Empoleon @Air Balloon
    Sassy
    [Torrent]
    EV's: 252 hp, 200 spdef, 56 atk
    Icy Wind
    Roar
    Aqua Jet
    Protect

    I would like someone to try it out, please. And give possible improvements for Doubles Empoleon.
  9. DreamTalon

    DreamTalon

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    I'll edit this post in with a simple/standard doubles Empoleon set.

    EDIT:
    Empoleon @ Absorb Bulb/Shuca Berry
    Modest
    Torrent
    252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 Def
    Scald/Hydro Pump/Surf
    Ice Beam/Icy Wind
    Grass Knot
    Protect

    Empoleon is a very good pokemon to have on your team if you can't beat Rain teams. With the shallow selection of pokemon outside of Water types and pokemon to abuse Thunder, Empoleon has some useful resistances for any rain weak teams. The most common rain lead, Politoad Ludicolo, often times abuses Surf, Ice Beam, and Giga Drain. Empoleon resists the first two, and is neutral to the later. The new water move debate in Double Battles is also a debate for Empoleon. Scald can burn threatening physical attackers, as well as do decent damage, Hydro Pump can do immense damage, but misses 20% of the time used, and Surf hits all the pokemon on the field, but also hits your partner. Ice Beam and Icy Wind are two entirely different types of moves. Ice Beam does loads of damage to 4x weak Dragons, like Garchomp and Salamence, but Icy Wind lets Empoleon support its slower team members. Grass Knot rounds off coverage by hitting Water types like Politoad and Swampert super effective.

    The item choice on Empoleon depends on if you want to sweep rain teams or support your team. Absorb Bulb lets you shrug off resisted Water type moves from your opponent/partner and begin to deal massive damage. Shuca Berry lets Empoleon survive the common Earthquake either Icy Wind for a slower teammate to be set up to KO or just attack.
  10. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    All Metagross in doubles run Earthquake though, so Empoleon's going to die to it no matter what, unfortunately. That set is very good though, especially against rain teams, as Empoleon takes very little damage from almost every rain attacker. Since Empoleon is so useful against rain teams, Absorb Bulb can be useful to allow it to take opposing Surfs hitting Empoleon's partner, making Empoleon much more potent, 2HKOing Politoed with Grass Knot (Poli is normally 3HKOed) and doing much more damage overall. In addition, Shuca Berry is very usable due to the ubiquity of Earthquake and Empoleon's low Speed, allowing Empoleon to check many Pokemon which would otherwise beat it, such as Garchomp, Excadrill, or Mamoswine

    ~Golden Emp, while Icy Wind is useful to allow Empoleon to slow down the opponent, Roar is really almost useless in Doubles play except to stop Trick Room from going up. In addition, while Aqua Jet is nice priority, that set can't really do much damage outside of Pokemon weak to Icy Wind, and that has such low BP that it only 3HKOes Tornadus, which is even weak to it. While it's certainly original, it doesn't really fulfill a specific role, and I don't think it's very usable.
  11. DreamTalon

    DreamTalon

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    If you are going to use a mixed water attacker with the mixed being Aqua Jet, use Samurott. Its Aqua Jet will be doing a lot more. And I don't recomeend even using that, even though I love it in another-metagame-that-must-not-be-named (VGC 2011). But I second the Absorb Bulb, as the only reason to use Empoleon, which I forgot to mention in my quick analysis of Empoleon in Doubles, is it is 4x resistant to water types. Or 2x... Never really got down Steel type stuff... And I'll edit my Doubles set to be an adequite analysis. Anyone have some good EV spreads to use???

    EDIT:
    Done.
  12. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    It's a 2x resistance, but Empoleon's excellent Special Defense and the HP investment allows it to take Water-type attacks rather easily, even taking two of Kingdra's Modest Life Orb Hydro Pump. 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 whatever is the best spread unless you aim to outspeed or underspeed a certain opponent, allowing Empoleon to take advantage of its resistances by making it bulky on both side, as hitting as hard as possible.
  13. ~Golden Emp

    ~Golden Emp

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    Gonna breed, test, and add to the analysis when I can get some time. (Hopefully soon)
  14. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    You know, you can test out sets on Smogon's PO server, on the Nintendo doubles section, if you have other users online who are willing to test with you. The tier is 100% implemented, and it's quite a bit easier to test on PO where you don't have to breed than on the cartridge. Unforunately, the ladder is rather empty, and other servers might have more users, so you may also consider trying other PO servers if you don't have anyone else online to test with.

    EDIT: lol it was just a suggestion in case you didn't know
  15. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    sigh, fair enough

    emp does not seem awful in doubles. it doesn't seem great, but it has nice typing. I'd use something like this.


    Empoleon @ (filler item; Shuca/Wacan/Chople/Mystic Water all work here)
    252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Surf / Scald
    - Blizzard
    - Grass Knot
    - Icy Wind

    Empleon isn't the greatest, tbh. Being forced to use scald and not being politoed is not nice. Obviously, pair with abomasnow.
  16. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    although it is slower, it is bulkier (which is why I really don't like starmie), stronger, and has a nicer typing.

    other than that set, I can't really think of anything better. physical gimmicks I guess?
  17. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    accidentally deleted my post x.x

    The point I was trying to make is that I thought the set was similar to the one previously discussed, so I wanted to know if you meant it to be used in a particularly different way. The annoying part about Empoleon+Abomasnow is that it can't really effectively take out Steel-types; although Empoleon can certainly take on many Steel-types, its weakness to Earthquake and inability to OHKO them means it has poor synergy with Abomasnow in my opinion, since Steel-types are what a hail team needs to watch out for.

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