Wondering about your thoughts on transgenderism.

[poke-chan]

I was thinking that I really don't know how most of Smogon feels about issues that are important to me.


If you didn't know, I am a transsexual- an MtF, to be exact (male to female). This means I am the classic "woman trapped in a man's body" (although I would probably slap you if you brought up that cliche; and my body isn't all that manly, either), who will go through hormonal therapy among many other (expensive) treatments to change their body, ultimately culminating in sex reassignment surgery. While transsexuals have been covered more in recent media sources including a Newsweek article, the CBS special about transgendered children, Transamerica, etc., there still exist many preconceived notions that are simply not true; such as that transsexuals are perverts (I can get kinky, but I don't quite understand that one), that they get sexual pleasure from dressing in women's clothes (that would be a crossdresser) and an incredible amount of other things. There are also people who still consider it a mental illness and, sadly, being transsexual is indeed still classified as a disorder (Gender Identity Disorder, to be exact).

There is no credence to it being a disorder.

Every single transsexual I have ever known has reported that they have known that they did not belong as a member of their sex (there is a difference between sex and gender- sex is physical, gender is mental) since they were very young. This is no different from myself- I have known since I was 3 years old and dressing myself in skirts (hopefully that didn't get a laugh out of you) that I was not really male, and that I definitely did not want to be one.

There is a certain depressing quality to not feeling right in your body, and it is one that causes those in my position a great deal of pain. In fact, the suicide rate among untreated transsexuals is around 70%, I believe. In short, it isn't a nice thing to have to deal with; and nothing can help more than knowing you have people by your side. For instance, I have a wonderful group of friends that supports me, I have an amazing girlfriend that has commited herself to me, and my parents (while shaky about it) have said that they, at the very least, accept it and will help me with it. I'm getting a new therapist that will help me even more (he's an FtM; female to male), and the help, support, and understanding of the people around me is such a boost to my happiness. And this is something I want to help with- getting more support, and helping people understand that what I and people like me go through is not unnatural, and it certainly is something that needs to be dealt with and given help.

So. What do you think?

EDIT: from now on, I'm going to ask that if you want to post, you either have some knowledge of transsexuality and/or you read the Wikipedia article on it, because I'm tired of people telling me things that simply aren't true.

 

[Mastadi]

I don't care. What counts is the inside, not the outside.

 

[poke-chan]

I don't care. What counts is the inside, not the outside.

I love people with this attitude. If only the whole world were like this, my work would be done :p

 

[mirza]

To be honest with you, I'm against people getting surgery just to change their gender. But then again, if you're not happy with the way you look/feel then go for it. Who am I to judge you on your decisions? :D

Also, I noticed that you said you have a girlfriend. Does that make you a lesbian or are you still counted as a male? Sorry if that sounds idiotic.

 

[poke-chan]

To be honest with you, I'm against people getting surgery just to change their gender. But then again, if you're not happy with the way you look/feel then go for it. Who am I to judge you on your decisions? :D

Also, I noticed that you said you have a girlfriend. Does that make you a lesbian or are you still counted as a male? Sorry if that sounds idiotic.

Well, I don't self-identify as lesbian; more like bisexual. But yes, it would be considered a lesbian relationship. :3

Out of curiosity, why are you against it? I'm not trying to provoke an argument at all; people feel differently and I understand that- I'm just interested in why you feel that way.

 

[Biolizard28]

Doesn't matter to me. If you feel that your were born the wrong sex, and you don't feel like you're supposed to be that way, why should I tell you to stay in a position where you're uncomfortable?

 

[Vyacheslav]

I just think it is wrong and more often than not an attention grabbing device.

Say what you will but I don't think having breasts or a vagina is going to make you much happier than you were before.

 

[poke-chan]

I just think it is wrong and more often than not an attention grabbing device.

Say what you will but I don't think having breasts or a vagina is going to make you much happier than you were before.

But why do you think that it's wrong?

And no, you're right; those simple things alone won't make a whole lot of difference (they'll definitely help, though). But the difference in societal perception certainly will.

 

[Sleep]

[snip]

...there still exist many preconceived notions that are simply not true; such as that transsexuals are perverts (I can get kinky, but I don't quite understand that one), that they get sexual pleasure from dressing in women's clothes (that would be a crossdresser) and an incredible amount of other things. There are also people who still consider it a mental illness and, sadly, being transsexual is indeed still classified as a disorder (Gender Identity Disorder, to be exact).

There is no credence to it being a disorder.

agree. I'm (it seems) in the same boat as you (or a similar one); over about the last year and a half or so, I simply don't feel "at home" in my body (physically male, mentally and emotionally not so). I'm surprised to hear that this is still considered a mental disorder when "states of mind" such as homosexuality were striked from the list decades ago. Such is life, I guess.

...There is a certain depressing quality to not feeling right in your body, and it is one that causes those in my position a great deal of pain. In fact, the suicide rate among untreated transsexuals is around 70%, I believe... and nothing can help more than knowing you have people by your side... [snip]

again, I agree. The best thing you can have in situations like these are people who support you. As for that suicide rate, O.O; is really all I have to say. I don't feel suicidal or even very depressed about it... but I can be pretty apathetic.

@Vyacheslav: it's not having breasts or a vagina that makes the idea of switching physical genders appealing, it's (at least to me) that your physical body more closely mirrors your self-image... being comfortable in your own body is a wanted, yet absent feeling, if I'm wording this correctly.

 

[Vyacheslav]

Overall, I'm a rather feminine male I suppose myself. I enjoy words more than numbers, reading more than working with my hands, and discussion rather than fighting. All supposed feminine areas of the world, but I realize that I am not a woman. I can express myself however I choose within the confines of this body. Having a less swollen chest or a penis doesn't exactly change who I am.

Self-image is what you make it to be. You can be perfectly happy regardless of what your body looks like, in my opinion, and I believe it is unnatural for any methods like the ones you folk are endorsing. I've always just seen it as an attention grab.

 

[poke-chan]

Overall, I'm a rather feminine male I suppose myself. I enjoy words more than numbers, reading more than working with my hands, and discussion rather than fighting. All supposed feminine areas of the world, but I realize that I am not a woman. I can express myself however I choose within the confines of this body. Having a less swollen chest or a penis doesn't exactly change who I am.

Self-image is what you make it to be. You can be perfectly happy regardless of what your body looks like, in my opinion, and I believe it is unnatural for any methods like the ones you folk are endorsing. I've always just seen it as an attention grab.

No, you're right. It doesn't change who we are, because we are female, on the inside rather than out. It's wonderful that you feel secure enough to express yourself within the confines of your body. Those in my situation do not. We feel that there is something inherently wrong; that our body is incorrect. For you, your body in its most basic sense (stronger than a woman's body, squarer, hairier, larger, more in the way of a penis) may match how you feel about yourself and how you see yourself.

That is the main difference between transsexuals and cisgender (those born with matching sex and gender) people.

Our bodies, in their basic senses, feel like prisons. They are incorrect to us. Self-image is not what we make of it because our self-image does not match our bodies. I see myself as female, but when I look in the mirror it is quite different. No matter what you tell me, I won't be able to see myself as a male- I tried that for twelve years, and I know for a fact that it just does not work. I ended up hating myself, falling into depression, lashing out at people, and worse. It wasn't until that I accepted myself as a transsexual that I started to feel more at peace with myself, little by little- and the thought that I will someday look more like my self-image helps what little confidence I have.


Sleep- indeed. :] It's good to meet someone like me on this board. Glad to hear that regarding your (lack of) depression- it's usually a major, major factor in trans people's lives, and I know it was for me.

 

[Warthog]

its hard for me to grasp this because I have never felt nor understand it. However lately Ive grown that people are people and if they feel like being a man or woman.. a homosexual... etc Im all good with it. Freewill right? Still freaks me out though as it does most people as it isnt normal.

 

[poke-chan]

its hard for me to grasp this because I have never felt nor understand it. However lately Ive grown that people are people and if they feel like being a man or woman.. a homosexual... etc Im all good with it. Freewill right? Still freaks me out though as it does most people as it isnt normal.

Well, no; you're right in thinking that what we do isn't the norm in the sense that there are far, far less transitioning (meaning in the process of becoming their target gender) transsexuals than there are non-transsexuals. But it is perfectly normal for someone to feel the way that transsexuals do, as there have been many in the past and there will be many in the future. We just want what gay rights activists have been fighting for for gays and lesbians for years (and are doing so more frequently now): equality, fair treatment, and if not understanding then at the very least toleration. I'm waiting for the day when a hate crime against a transsexual or homosexual is as looked down upon as hate crimes against african americans.

 

[.astrokid]

You should rather be grateful with yourself rather trying to change yourself.

But i know there are reasons behind everything... but the mind has most control over the body, depends who is in control of your mind.

 

[poke-chan]

You should rather be grateful with yourself rather trying to change yourself.

But i know there are reasons behind everything... but the mind has most control over the body, depends who is in control of your mind.

Well, I'm in control of my mind; and I know that my body is not a match for my real self.

Oh, I'm certainly grateful that I have a body- at least I'm not missing half of it. But all that means to me is that I have a whole body to work with when I'm changing myself into what I know I was truly meant to be.

 

[Vyacheslav]

I just have always seen it as an attention grabbing technique. You are what you make of yourself. You can either be happy for the gifts you were given, or you can go and unnaurally try and change them. Sure, there can be some excuses made along the way (Oh, I just do'nt feel right!) but when it boils down the the basic essence, there is nothing more than an innate feeling of trying to be unique, I believe.

I for one am happy with what I was given. Anyone can feel this way, if they learned to let go of their primal essence to set themselves apart from the rest.

 

[poke-chan]

I just have always seen it as an attention grabbing technique. You are what you make of yourself. You can either be happy for the gifts you were given, or you can go and unnaurally try and change them. Sure, there can be some excuses made along the way (Oh, I just do'nt feel right!) but when it boils down the the basic essence, there is nothing more than an innate feeling of trying to be unique, I believe.

I for one am happy with what I was given. Anyone can feel this way, if they learned to let go of their primal essence to set themselves apart from the rest.

Well, I can't change how you feel. I know that I am and was meant to be female. I am not happy for the gifts I was given (even the body I have has diseases; and I'm not talking about a cold here) because I was not given any gifts. All I was given was a sense of loss and longing.

Of course I want to be unique. Everyone does. But don't you think that- were I really trying to be unique- I would choose something that wasn't quite as dangerous as being transsexual? :]

 

[Vyacheslav]

Well, I can't change how you feel. I know that I am and was meant to be female. I am not happy for the gifts I was given (even the body I have has diseases; and I'm not talking about a cold here) because I was not given any gifts. All I was given was a sense of loss and longing.

Of course I want to be unique. Everyone does. But don't you think that- were I really trying to be unique- I would choose something that wasn't quite as dangerous as being transsexual? :]

You were not meant to be female, or else you would have been. You are meant to be a male.

 

[toy]

If you have the money and the time, by all means.

 

[omnitarian]

Gender identity (and transgenderism by extension) are pretty well understood; whether you identify yourself as male/female is a fundamental part of your biology. It's absurd to think that somebody can choose to ignore or change their gender identity.

There are also people who still consider it a mental illness and, sadly, being transsexual is indeed still classified as a disorder (Gender Identity Disorder, to be exact).

There is no credence to it being a disorder.

I'm surprised to hear that this is still considered a mental disorder when "states of mind" such as homosexuality were striked from the list decades ago. Such is life, I guess.

Homosexuality was delisted because it didn't cause the person any emotional/mental harm, other than the result of senseless social prejudices. Transgenderism/GID is different in that it causes direct emotional discomfort. Bah, classifying things as disorders is so thorny. The real problem is that the very term and concept (of 'mental disorder') has become so loaded and stigmatized.

 

[obi]

You were not meant to be female, or else you would have been. You are meant to be a male.

If someone is born with a life threatening disease, should they just live with it or seek to change it? They were "meant" to have this disease, by that logic.

Also, the fact that you receive emotional harm because of this condition would, I believe, lend credence to the fact that it is a "disorder". When you are finally happy with who you are, then you would cease to have the "disorder", because it ceases to be emotionally disturbing.

 

[Vyacheslav]

If someone is born with a life threatening disease, should they just live with it or seek to change it? They were "meant" to have this disease, by that logic.

Also, the fact that you receive emotional harm because of this condition would, I believe, lend credence to the fact that it is a "disorder". When you are finally happy with who you are, then you would cease to have the "disorder", because it ceases to be emotionally disturbing.

That's rather different. The disease is, as you said, life threatening. Being a man or a woman is not.

You may look in the mirror and dislike what you see - but hell so do many people that have their 'correct gender'. You deal with it. Like I said before, you can be as feminine as you want and keep your man body, who's to stop you? I don't understand why anyone would rather defy nature, in essence, just to feel a bit better about themselves.

 

[obi]

That's rather different. The disease is, as you said, life threatening. Being a man or a woman is not.

You may look in the mirror and dislike what you see - but hell so do many people that have their 'correct gender'. You deal with it. Like I said before, you can be as feminine as you want and keep your man body, who's to stop you? I don't understand why anyone would rather defy nature, in essence, just to feel a bit better about themselves.

And what's wrong with feeling better about yourself? Schizophrenia is estimated to be about 50% heritable. Should people with it go untreated, potentially endangering their own lives and the lives of others? Should people with a predisposition for heart disease not watch their diet more carefully than others? You are trying to anthropomorphize nature as having an indomitable will, which really makes no sense.

If I look in the mirror, realize I am incredibly overweight, and dislike this, I do something about it.

 

[PM]

Uhh what's wrong with defying nature? If it gives you happiness, defy all the nature you want. Did Nature tell you its pissing him off because you're defying him? No. Then why should it matter?

 

[Vyacheslav]

Uhh what's wrong with defying nature? If it gives you happiness, defy all the nature you want. Did Nature tell you its pissing him off because you're defying him? No. Then why should it matter

That which is unnatural will go punished in some way. Be it public disdain or supernatural effects, I don't know, it just seems to always work out that way.

If I look in the mirror, realize I am incredibly overweight, and dislike this, I do something about it.

Again I think the situation is different. More often than not, its the persons fault for getting overweight, and really there isn't anything inheritenly wrong with it.

I suppose my reasons for disliking the wole idea are not terribly well-formed, but I've always thought there was something 'not right' with transgenderism. I guess I don't think the entire 'self esteem' argument for it is true, and it should be called what it really is - a desire to be unique and to draw attention.