I personally feel it's somewhat symbolic of the whole 'bond' thing - the trainer recognizes that Absol isn't a prophet of doom and their friendship or whatever gets through and allows Absol to become pure or whatever. I dunno, something like that. I always put the trainer and Pokémon's bond into consideration when thinking of designs and other attributes of Mega Evolution.A design I'm really not happy with is Mega Absol. We all knew Absol as a sharp, sleek killing beast; it's a prophet of doom, which its design complements. However, I really don't think Mega Absol conveys the same message, instead sharply catering to the fanbase and making it look like a sparklething rather than keep the elements of it being a prophet of disaster. Instead of looking sharp and sleek, it suddenly looks round, fluffy and benign. Its signature element, its scythe, is actually smaller and the goddamn wing-like fur was WAY too much for me to take it seriously. Yes, sure, fallen angels, but I feel like it seriously clashes with Absol's mythos. Worst Mega Evolution design by far, IMO.
You've brought up a good point, but there were so many other ways to expand on Absol's concept for Mega Absol. I just really feel like the design caters a bit too much to the fanbase. What I'd personally have done was give it long fur on its back that droops down that makes it look more mysterious. That's just me.I personally feel it's somewhat symbolic of the whole 'bond' thing - the trainer recognizes that Absol isn't a prophet of doom and their friendship or whatever gets through and allows Absol to become pure or whatever. I dunno, something like that. I always put the trainer and Pokémon's bond into consideration when thinking of designs and other attributes of Mega Evolution.
I think you can compare this one with a witty pun in some sort of way. The first time, it's absolutely hilarious, but if you repeat it a couple of days later to the same audience, nobody will like it as much as the first time. This is the exact same thing. Create a mechanics-related evolutionary line where the second stage is multiple specimens of the first stage fused together? Clever. Repeat the EXACT SAME PRINCIPLE a couple of generations later? Awfully uninspired.Time for another comparison: I really can't see how people would bash Klang and love Magneton at the same time. Magneton is literally three Magnemite stuck together. At least Klang gives the impression of it building up from Klink. Sure, it gets more gears, but I find that to be more original than tacking three individuals of one Pokémon species together and call that a Pokémon. That's not to say I dislike either: both are pretty cool and Magneton's dancing motion in Gens I-IV with the screws just cracks me up every single time.
Except Klang isn't multiple Klink fused together. It's basically a structure-in-progress that is built up more and more as it evolves, so it's a different concept. Besides, the Beldum line did a far better job combining units to form a stronger entity than Magnemite and Magneton could ever hope to do.I think you can compare this one with a witty pun in some sort of way. The first time, it's absolutely hilarious, but if you repeat it a couple of days later to the same audience, nobody will like it as much as the first time. This is the exact same thing. Create a mechanics-related evolutionary line where the second stage is multiple specimens of the first stage fused together? Clever. Repeat the EXACT SAME PRINCIPLE a couple of generations later? Awfully uninspired.
(At least, that's how I see it, ofc you're completely entitled to your own opinion :) )
I didn't notice that at first glance, but I can see what you mean. Guess that's something that could be said in Klang's favour then.Except Klang isn't multiple Klink fused together. It's basically a structure-in-progress that is built up more and more as it evolves, so it's a different concept. Besides, the Beldum line did a far better job combining units to form a stronger entity than Magnemite and Magneton could ever hope to do.
Conkeldurr is an homage to Machamp, actually; it's far from a ripoff. Garbodor's not a Muk ripoff, it complements Weezing and Muk as I've illustrated before. Ferrothorn and Forretress? That's a bit of a stretch, if I have to be honest, considering Forretress is a bagworm and Ferrothorn a cross between a durian and a brier plant. They're far from unimaginative.I didn't notice that at first glance, but I can see what you mean. Guess that's something that could be said in Klang's favour then.
(I wouldn't call it a different concept though, more like an improvement of the same concept: it's still combining individual units, now they're just completing a better thought out structure, rather than being jammed together).
The same thing I mentioned earlier applies to a lot of 5th gen btw, and I think that's why that gen gets so much hate. Garbodor is a Muk ripoff, Conkeldurr is a Machamp ripoff, Ferrothorn is a Forretress ripoff, and so on. Of course all of them differentiate themselves from their earlier counterparts in some way, like (apparently) Klang does, and I've also seen some arguments in Garbodor's favour in this thread. I just think it's better to come up with something completely original (yay Chandelure) than to improve something already in existance in a way you have to actively search for in order to appreciate it. (guess you can appreciate some of these mons if you get those subtleties, but I don't like how they look like completely unimaginative ripoffs if you don't manage to see those).
Don't we just mean the same thing by homage and ripoff? Ripoff might've sounded a bit harsher than I intended, and I can't find any source that Conk would be a Machamp homage. If you mean by 'homage' that Conk is Machamp 'revisited' as it were, we're on the same page actually. Garbodor isn't a Muk ripoff in the literal sense, but it is Muk 'revisited', as in being a garbageous pollution mon. (As I stated, I read your explanation regarding Garbodor). As for Ferrothorn and Forretress, that might be a bit of a stretch, but in any case they're both fat, defensive utility pods, and after finding so many parallel mons I don't really mind if it's a 'stretch'. (And I like Ferro :( ) I think it's pretty generally accepted that a lot of old mons have been revisited in 5th gen (other pretty obvious examples are Gigalith for Golem, Munna for Drowzee, and Throh/Sawk for Hitmonlee/chan) so if that's what you mean by 'homage' and what I (overly) harshly referred to as 'ripoffs', we're pretty much on the same page. Apparently you can appreciate that more than I can (and that's totally fine, but I think we should stop now before we're gonna derail the thread)Conkeldurr is an homage to Machamp, actually; it's far from a ripoff. Garbodor's not a Muk ripoff, it complements Weezing and Muk as I've illustrated before. Ferrothorn and Forretress? That's a bit of a stretch, if I have to be honest, considering Forretress is a bagworm and Ferrothorn a cross between a durian and a brier plant. They're far from unimaginative.
Aren't all MEvos fanservice anyways?You've brought up a good point, but there were so many other ways to expand on Absol's concept for Mega Absol. I just really feel like the design caters a bit too much to the fanbase. What I'd personally have done was give it long fur on its back that droops down that makes it look more mysterious. That's just me.
Yeah, I know, I get where you're coming from and I like Absol's mysterious motif in base form myself; I was just throwing in my two cents.You've brought up a good point, but there were so many other ways to expand on Absol's concept for Mega Absol. I just really feel like the design caters a bit too much to the fanbase. What I'd personally have done was give it long fur on its back that droops down that makes it look more mysterious. That's just me.
Mega Manectric and Mega Tyranitar certainly weren't. Manectric is rather unpopular to begin with and its Mega Evolution isn't liked all that much, either. Mega Pinsir and Heracross aren't particularly liked, either, despite Mega Heracross very well expanding on the concept of a physically strong bug that can lift many many times its own weight, being closer to its namesake, the Hercules beetle.Aren't all MEvos fanservice anyways?
Actually, looking at the Pokédex, it seems like roughly half of Gen. V are "revisits" of older Pokémon concepts. The entire first half of the Unova dex consists of (more or less) emulated older gen Pokémon (you've provided plenty of examples already, but there are many more), whereas the second half is actually pretty original and creative. It almost looks like GameFreak had designed the Pokémon lineup for the "introductory" half of the story with old Pokémon in mind, then decided to make new ones instead, but keeping the same concepts. "Here we planned for players to meet Sandshrew, but we had to replace it, so we made Drilbur." or "In this pond, you can fish and findDon't we just mean the same thing by homage and ripoff? Ripoff might've sounded a bit harsher than I intended, and I can't find any source that Conk would be a Machamp homage. If you mean by 'homage' that Conk is Machamp 'revisited' as it were, we're on the same page actually. Garbodor isn't a Muk ripoff in the literal sense, but it is Muk 'revisited', as in being a garbageous pollution mon. (As I stated, I read your explanation regarding Garbodor). As for Ferrothorn and Forretress, that might be a bit of a stretch, but in any case they're both fat, defensive utility pods, and after finding so many parallel mons I don't really mind if it's a 'stretch'. (And I like Ferro :( ) I think it's pretty generally accepted that a lot of old mons have been revisited in 5th gen (other pretty obvious examples are Gigalith for Golem, Munna for Drowzee, and Throh/Sawk for Hitmonlee/chan) so if that's what you mean by 'homage' and what I (overly) harshly referred to as 'ripoffs', we're pretty much on the same page. Apparently you can appreciate that more than I can (and that's totally fine, but I think we should stop now before we're gonna derail the thread)
I don't see what's amazing about a Pokemon that's blacklisted from the viability thread because it literally has no niche (Sylveon > Florges in pretty much every respect).I vote for florges for simply the typing how are you going to have a Pokemon that blooms like a flower when it comes out the pokeball and evolves from smaller flowers and carries different colors to resemble different flowers make it a fairy type. In what way does florges look like a fairy. In my honest opinion it should have been grass type enough said haha. It is amazing competitively though I have to give it that.
Florges is the best in UU that's why it's viable and slyveon is ou and it does it job well.I don't see what's amazing about a Pokemon that's blacklisted from the viability thread because it literally has no niche (Sylveon > Florges in pretty much every respect).
Just because something is good in UU doesn't mean it's good in OU, let alone viable. A ton of the things in BL don't do too well in OU (Staraptor is the only thing on that list with a relevant niche in OU).Florges is the best in UU that's why it's viable and slyveon is ou and it does it job well.
Um... what? Manectric was fairly popular, Tyranitar certainly was, and most people seem to like Mega-Pinsir/Heracross.Mega Manectric and Mega Tyranitar certainly weren't. Manectric is rather unpopular to begin with and its Mega Evolution isn't liked all that much, either. Mega Pinsir and Heracross aren't particularly liked, either, despite Mega Heracross very well expanding on the concept of a physically strong bug that can lift many many times its own weight, being closer to its namesake, the Hercules beetle.
To expand on this, Popularity was one if the requirements for a Mon to get a Mega (there are 2 others but I can't remember them). This is why Mons who didn't "deserve" a Mega have gotten them (even though like 75%+ of all Megas are for Pokemon that sucked competitively otherwise).Um... what? Manectric was fairly popular, Tyranitar certainly was, and most people seem to like Mega-Pinsir/Heracross.
You're not understanding myJust because something is good in UU doesn't mean it's good in OU, let alone viable. A ton of the things in BL don't do too well in OU (Staraptor is the only thing on that list with a relevant niche in OU).
When people say something is good in the context of competitive Pokemon, they are referring to OU (the "main" tier) or VGC unless they state otherwise. Your original post implied Florges is a good OU mon, which is not true in the slightest as it is completely eclipsed by Sylveon. I can't say for certain how good it is in VGC because I have little experience in the format, but its abilities are gimmicky border-lining on useless going by theory alone.You're not understanding my
Point I'm saying that florges is outclassed by slyveon that's why it's uu but for being uu florges does it job which is wish pass better than any other pokemon in the tier
Not every Pokemon in context is referenced to the OU tier that's why Smogon created different tiers so non viable pokemon in ou can be viable in lower tiers.When people say something is good in the context of competitive Pokemon, they are referring to OU (the "main" tier) or VGC unless they state otherwise. Your original post implied Florges is a good OU mon, which is not true in the slightest as it is completely eclipsed by Sylveon. I can't say for certain how good it is in VGC because I have little experience in the format, but its abilities are gimmicky border-lining on useless going by theory alone.
Um...every mon is referenced to the OU tier unless specified otherwise or is talked about in a UU/RU/NU subforum. Especially in OI.Not every Pokemon in context is referenced to the OU tier that's why Smogon created different tiers so non viable pokemon in ou can be viable in lower tiers.
...I used Sableye in my Emerald playthroughs... Granted, this was WAY before I even knew what competitive battling was or even cared about EV's, but it was fun even if it really wasn't that good despite having no weaknesses at the time. ...Don't kill me...And then there's Sableye. Not sure what that fucker is supposed to be. Pretty much useless competitively, even with Prankster (yeah I'll be that guy), no one really used him in-game (I never even knew he had "NO WEAK" until Gen V), and then gets a Mega Evo...with Magic Bounce. There's very few reasons to use him over Xatu/Espeon or even Mega Absol (who even tries to use non-attacking moves on Sableye in the first place). Oh, and he's going to break ASB in half. Fun, right?