Ladder ORAS 1v1 [3v3 Team Preview]

[jrm115]

"Yo"
Anyway, I am one of those people who are using scarf Victini, and I see the problem as much as anyone else. Even against the Aegislashes (or whatever that plural is) I am occasionally able to OHKO with an uninvested V-Create, so pretty much the only things that can beat it are fat pink blobs, bulk Aegi's, and Dusclops, as well as sets that can counter it like Whimsicott, or if people start to use substitute on their CounterCoat users. Heck, even level 1 Aron beats it. If something is beaten by level 1 Aron but is still common, it must be horribly overpowered. This is so unbalanced I nearly feel guilty using it, and I'm sure people with souls do. This totally needs to be fixed.

 

[goodknife]

I really don't like the unbanning of Final Gambit and Explosion in the meta. They are overpowered, hard to counter, and a cheap set. As Yozora was saying, it's very overcentralizing and making the meta not fun anymore. Also, Perish Song could potentially be very threatening but I haven't seen any uses of it yet.

goodknife
I don't see how HP Steel is an instant win vs Dragonite.

252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Steel vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 60-71 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possible 5HKO

Also, Shadow Sneak can't hit Slaking at all because Slaking is normal type, and Shadow Sneak is ghost.

This set seems to lose to a lot of things in the current metagame and I don't see what it beats that, say, CB Dragonite doesn't.

252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 354-421 (91.7 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

but if i use hp steel before to break multiscale (15.5 - 18.3%) and dragonite hit me with outrage (normally (106.9 - 125.8%) with my steel type, i can survived it) then hit back with Ice beam, i won.

 

[Yozora]

252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 354-421 (91.7 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

but if i use hp steel before to break multiscale (15.5 - 18.3%) and dragonite hit me with outrage (normally (106.9 - 125.8%) with my steel type, i can survived it) then hit back with Ice beam, i won.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 328-385 (101.2 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
=> Most Dragonites (well, the good ones at least) run 252 Def EV to survive opposing Outrage, and Specs Greninja can OHKO regardless of the spread (unless it's 252 SpDef, which is stupid on Dragonite).

Your set is original and viable, but your moves can be outpredicted and abuse. I think I had several Victini vs Greninja matches with you yesterday, and all I had to do was to spam V-Create when you go for Shadow Sneak, and Final Gambit otherwise.
Against Dragonite, the problem is Earthquake : if you lack Ice Beam, you won't avoid the 2HKO (OHKO if HP Steel)... Well, there is Air Balloon Greninja I guess, but...

Victini must be banned, or at least Final Gambit : FEAR, Dusclops and Blissey all lose to Trick (Blissey can predict and start using attacking moves, but Victini usually KOs first - Psyshock does enough damage and can't be Countered), Mawile can be OHKO with Blue Flare (V-Create has to deal with Intimidate and Def EVs). Really, it must go as soon as possible.

EDIT : I saw some Scarf Greninja, as well as people running Protean Shadow Sneak. Seriously, guys, Scarf Greninja is to Victini as Haze Quagsire is to OU BP...

 

[The Immortal]

Apparently Final Gambit actually causes the user to lose. This will be implemented on the next server restart.

 

[Olaph Olaffsson]

Inspired by two people who won Ubers battles with one-Shuckle teams:

Shuckle @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Def, 252 Sp. Def, 4HP
Bold nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Moves:
Shell Smash
Rest
Infestation
Toxic

Contrary Shell Smash boosts defense and special defense, Rest is for healing and Toxic and Infestation are for indirect damage. The Chesto Berry is so that it wakes up the first time it uses rest, but is not wasted when it is poisoned or burned (which can be cured by Rest)

Despite forgetting to EV the Shuckle for this battle:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-129780108

Stall vs Stall makes the one with better recovery and more damage sources win.

 

[Eminegg]

Apparently Final Gambit actually causes the user to lose. This will be implemented on the next server restart.

Wait, you mean the mechanics were supposed to make the user fainting FIRST win and not the one fainting SECOND?

Or is it so that you are banning Final Gambit for it's only one counter, ghost types?

 

[pj]

Why in the world is genesect not banned
its overpowered and have only one weakness fire it can learn almost every type moves so please Ban it

 

[Yozora]

Why in the world is genesect not banned
its overpowered and have only one weakness fire it can learn almost every type moves so please Ban it

There are two problems with Genesect :

- Its speed tier. 99 Base Speed is an horrible tier, since it forces you to run a Scarf because of the Base 100 mons (hi Charizard). And even then, scarf base 100 aren't that uncommon *cough*Victini*cough*, and you have to run max Speed because of Scarf Cube.

- It's somewhat underwhelming without the Download boost (base 120 is good, but low for 1v1 standard). It can't really afford to go mixed because it hates splitting its EVs. In fact, physical Genesect lacks 90+ BP moves (It does get Blaze Kick, but it's outclassed by Flamethrower). It cannot get past fire types, and while it gets fantastic coverage, a neutral, unSTAB attack from base 120 isn't KOing anything... Ah, and it straight lose to FEAR and Blissey

Please ban Final Gambit. It cannot be stressed enough.

 

[Pikachuun]

Wait, you mean the mechanics were supposed to make the user fainting FIRST win and not the one fainting SECOND?

Or is it so that you are banning Final Gambit for it's only one counter, ghost types?

Self-KO clause: The player automatically loses if his last Pokémon uses Selfdestruct or Explosion. Destiny Bond and Perish Song also fail when used by the last Pokémon.

The clause works with all self-ko moves and not just the above

 

[Mulan15262]

Inspired by two people who won Ubers battles with one-Shuckle teams:

Shuckle @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Def, 252 Sp. Def, 4HP
Bold nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Moves:
Shell Smash
Rest
Infestation
Toxic

Contrary Shell Smash boosts defense and special defense, Rest is for healing and Toxic and Infestation are for indirect damage. The Chesto Berry is so that it wakes up the first time it uses rest, but is not wasted when it is poisoned or burned (which can be cured by Rest)

Despite forgetting to EV the Shuckle for this battle:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-129780108

Stall vs Stall makes the one with better recovery and more damage sources win.

Why not use Power Split instead of Shell Smash for the first move? This way, you can almost half the damage you take from anything (and this isn't ignored by critical hits) while increasing the damage dealt by Infestation?

 

[Doug Funnie]

Every time I use something that's not a Ghost, or Base 100 HP or lower, I automatically lose to one of those fucking Choice Scarf Final Gambit Victinis. I don't know why it got unbanned, or why you win when you Self-Destruct, but this garbage needs to stop.

I'm done with 1v1 until this Final Gambit/Explosion/Killing Yourself to get a Cheap Win shit stops. Bye.

 

[Yozora]

Too bad that Destiny Bond makes the user lose, Destiny Bond + Taunt Banette would have been even more broken than Victini...
When will the Self-Ko Clause be added for Final Gambit and Explosion ?
If you really hate Victini, its best counters are Extreme Speed Dragonite and Cube with HP EVs.

 

[Olaph Olaffsson]

Whimsicott is a pretty good way to beat Victini, because it has Prankster Substitute. Sturdy, >100 base HP with 252 EVs, Ghost types and Whimsicott are the only things that can beat Victini.

 

[Yozora]

Whimsicott is a pretty good way to beat Victini, because it has Prankster Substitute. Sturdy, >100 base HP with 252 EVs, Ghost types and Whimsicott are the only things that can beat Victini.

The problem is that any smart Victini player will predict the sub and start spamming Fire moves. Sturdy is in the same boat (Sawk cannot OHKO and is 2HKO by uninvested Blue Flare/Psyshock), FEAR has to do with Trick, and Ghost types not named Cofragrigus lose to either Trick or Blue Flare/V-Create. On top of that, very few mons invest in HP because Def or Speed Evs are usually better.

I've reached 1764 using only Victini for a reason... I think I've lost only 6 battles with it : one against Scarfed Greninja, one against Dusclops (now I have Trick for it), one against Banded Sawk (which is really rare since Scarf is simply better), two against Scarf Cube (I win if I can burn it with Blue Flare), and one against Life Orb Greninja (I predicted Shadow Sneak but it used Hydro Canon instead)

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

Whimsicott is a good counter to these Victinis as it can set up a sub, use Protect and regain health using Leftovers, use Sub again, etc. V-Create gets quickly stalled out, and then Victini struggles to death. Another pretty good counter I've found is Sucker Punch Mawile-Mega. Sucker Punch doesn't quite KO (252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) but it makes Final Gambit useless. And if the Victini is smart and uses V-Create, it still loses.

-1 4 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 216-254 (71 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 because of Intimidate. Mawile loses guaranteed on a critical hit, but besides that, it's a pretty good check. Victini can't Trick its Scarf because of the Mega Stone, and Final Gambit after Sucker Punch is useless.

Victini would run 4 Attack because it needs 252 HP/252 Speed in order to be effective.

 

[Yozora]

Whimsicott is a good counter to these Victinis as it can set up a sub, use Protect and regain health using Leftovers, use Sub again, etc. V-Create gets quickly stalled out, and then Victini struggles to death. Another pretty good counter I've found is Sucker Punch Mawile-Mega. Sucker Punch doesn't quite KO (252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) but it makes Final Gambit useless. And if the Victini is smart and uses V-Create, it still loses.

-1 4 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 216-254 (71 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 because of Intimidate. Mawile loses guaranteed on a critical hit, but besides that, it's a pretty good check. Victini can't Trick its Scarf because of the Mega Stone, and Final Gambit after Sucker Punch is useless.

Victini would run 4 Attack because it needs 252 HP/252 Speed in order to be effective.

Yeah but Blue Flare with 40 SpeAttack EV OHKO Mawile. In fact, it doesn't need these 252 HP EVs, since the only mon base 100 that runs 252 HP is Victini itself : when you see one, you will still have 50% chance of moving first, thus preventing the opponent from KOing you with Final Gambit.
You can also run V Create + Attack EV but Blue Flare is more effective against Mawile and Aegislash.
Trust me, I've run 40 SpeAttack Victini to really great success !

But all of this is no longer relevant since Final Gambit (hopefully) makes the user lose.

 

[Piccolo Daimao]

To be honest, I can't wait for this to get updated. Final Gambit and Explosion are ruining the metagame and taking the fun out of it. I was doing this thing on an alt a few days ago where I tried to get to 1500 as fast as I could, and most of my normal sets weren't working because of all of the Victinis.

 

[Maxie3]

Final gambit is banned.
Finally, I can use more pokemons than Aggron or Golem. xD

 

[Olaph Olaffsson]

Some of my normal sets (Misdreavus, Aron, Magnezone, Kyurem-B with some EV changes to make it 405 HP) still worked, but now I can use my others without threat from Victini.

 

[Olaph Olaffsson]

Doubleposting, but a week later and completely unrelated.

I know everyone will hate me for posting this, but:


Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Substitute
- Dazzling Gleam
- Swagger
- Foul Play

It's pretty obvious what this one does. Subs first, then uses Swagger and Foul Play. If the attack broke the sub, you have to use Swagger anyway because your HP would be slowly whittled down if you used Sub again. Dazzling Gleam is the filler move for facing Chanseys or Pokémon that 4x resist Dark.

 

[The Immortal]

Banning Swagger because it is stupid as fuck.

 

[natnew]

the objective is simple: FEAR as many pokemon to death as possible! due to toxic, this CAN (not if they carry an offensive move, substitude, etc) beat stallers, and is not countered by fake out if it uses protect on turn 1. countered by knock off, though.

Aron @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 Atk
- Endeavor
- Hidden Power [Dark]
- Protect
- Toxic

 

[The Immortal]

The Swagger ban is now live. I've also updated the common sets in the first post.

 

[The Immortal]

A user has proposed that 1v1 should have team preview such that you bring three Pokemon and use one. Let me quote him:

In the current 1v1 meta the games are pretty much a rock-paper-scissors. It is possible to see the trends in the ladder at the current time and try to get yourself good match-ups but that dosent always work. That is the main reason some players dont enjoy 1v1, there is undeniably a large portion of luck involved. Now adding a 3v3 team preview should cut down on the luck. It now becomes a matter of mind games and probability. You have to send out whatever pokemon you think would fair the best against all three of your opponents pokemon. That should create a more competitive environment and hopefully bring more people to the meta while keeping the players who already enjoy 1v1 for what it is.

I feel this a good proposal because it improves 1v1 without any cons.

LIKE THIS IF YOU SUPPORT

 

[supercoven94]

A user has proposed that 1v1 should have team preview such that you bring three Pokemon and use one. Let me quote him:



I feel this a good proposal because it improves 1v1 without any cons.

LIKE THIS IF YOU SUPPORT

Personally i think ther's nothing wrong in this proposal. It will greatly improves the metagame and the competitiveness in it. This user says the truth, now 1v1 is just a game of ""see what the ladder use and counter it", thus decreasing the fun of playing.