Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[alexwolf]

Metagross = A+

Metagross, in my opinion, has no business in S-rank. While it is a lovely mon, its good traits are far overstated.

1. Bulk.
Metagross does have stellar defensive stats, but in actual play, they are underwhelming. Metagross forced to both run uninvested (with the exception of agility sets) and live with Steel/Psychic typing. This gives Metagross four very common weaknesses in Fire, Ground, Dark, and Ghost. Gross is blessed with a number of resistances, but many of these resistances (normal, poison, steel) are rarely used offensive types, and are easily covered by other mons. On top of that, its very nice resistances to Dragon, Flying, Rock and Ice are somewhat futile given that they are almost always paired with moves that give Metagross hell. Examples include Landorus-T (EdgeQuake, though scarf lando does not possess the ability to use both), Talonflame (Fire/Flying), Weavile (Ice, Dark), any physical dragon, since fire/ground coverage is standard. Even a switch into Latios will result in losing about 50%. Combine this with a lack of recovery, and Metagross is not taking nearly as many hits as one would desire. On the special spectrum, it is taking at least 50% from nearly any non-resisted special attack, and things like Keldeo's hydro pump can straight-up KO it with a bit of prior damage. While its bulk does give it a decent amount of staying power while it is on the field, its switchin opportunities are limited, and this is a huge problem given that a large selling point is ease of coming in as a result of its bulk. The fact that Gross needs to spend a turn Megavolving before it has that outstanding bulk/speed only adds to the issue.

You do realize we are talking about an offensive Pokemon here right? Not a tank, not a wall, but a bulky, fast, and very hard to wall offensive Pokemon. M-Metagross's bulk is nothing sort of amazing, being able to tank even Earthquake from Scarf Lando-T from full health and OHKO back. You say that it loses 50% from Latios's Draco Meteor like it's too much, when in reality it's too little. Offensive teams use Pokemon that can only check dangerous threats once all the time. For example, Mega Gardevoir is a common check to Lati@s in offense, even though it can only switch into them once. Same goes for stuff such as Azumarill and Keldeo, which can check a wide array of threats once or at best twice, but not more. The same is true with Mega Metagross, except it has more Speed and power than both of those Pokemon. Mega Metagross's main role is to nuke the hell out of everything, using its good typing and bulk to switch in easier and check many Pokemon, not to check threats for an extended period of time. You didn't see people saying that Keldeo should drop from S rank in XY because it could only check Mega Gyarados, Greninja without Grass moves, and Mega Tyranitar once did you?

2. Coverage
Metagross has great coverage, but heavy 4MSS. Typically the 4mss argument is complete bs, because it is used on mons like Greninja where it is simply blessed with a large movepool. Metagross, on the other hand, is a huge victim as a result of its typing. Its two stabs, steel and psychic, provide poor coverage. Running stabs is close to mandatory on 'gross, though, due to their boost in power, but this leaves metagross with only two slots to fulfill the rest of its needs. This could mean Ice Punch for Lando/Dragons, Earthquake for Heatran/Metagross, hammer arm for Ferrothorn/Heatran, Bullet punch for lots of stuff, Agility for sweeping potential, Grass knot for Slowbro/Hippo, Pursuit for trapping. Hammer arm fails to nab some ko's such as on Heatran and ferro, and ferro can even leech seed stall if given the opportunity. It also drops metagross' speed, which is hugely problematic in terms of being revenged or even outsped and ko'd by the opposing mon. Metagross' lackluster stab coverage means that it will have quite a bit of redundancy with its coverage moves, limiting further how many mons it can handle. Without specific preparation, almost all teams will have at least a few checks to metagross, simply because of its heavy need to pick and choose coverage moves.

It's complete bs in this case too, as Mega Metagross has plenty of room for everything it needs on a single set. Good luck switching into a set of dual STABs / Hammer Arm / Grass Knot, which outside of physically defensive Landorus-T and bulky Mega Scizor is unwallable. Just because Mega Metagross has a ton of viable options and is versatile doesn't mean that you can't fit everything you need on a single set, while the few Pokemon that stop Mega Metagross can be dealt by teammates. Bullet Punch, Pursuit, HP Fire, and other similar useful but niche moves don't make Mega Metagross strapped for moveslots, they make it able to fit on tons of teams and take tons of different roles and niches, while Agility gives Mega Metagross legit versatility outside of niche moves used solely for the sake of dealing with few and very specific threats. Some of your examples of why certain moves are needed are also very bad, such as Hammer Arm being unable to KO Heatran and Ferrothorn, when Heatran is 2HKOed by MM + Hammer Arm with SR up and Ferrothorn loses 60% minimum from Hammer Arm and the best it can do back is use Leech Seed. This is like saying that Greninja has troubles against Heatran because it can't OHKO it and Heatran can Toxic it and then use Protect, or that Terrakion has troubles with Ferrothorn because it can't OHKO it and Ferrothorn OHKOes back with Gyro Ball.

3. Mega Probs
Now more than ever, the competition for a mega slot is cut-throat. Using metagross is, of course, giving up the ability to use other megas. The power creep among megas has also gone through the roof, to the point where even Charizard-X no longer seems so incredibly strong. Metagross has a difficult time dealing with the turn of Megavolving. Its switchin prospects are made even slimmer as a result of its slow, less-bulky normal form. Add the fact that so many mons in this meta can do major damage to 'gross, and it has a harder time megavolving than one would initially think. Clear body gives it a bit of a buffer as far as Lando is concerned, but this is nothing compared to Prankster or Intimidate held by sableye and salamence respectively.

This is another statement often thrown in arguments just to give them more legitimacy, but is mostly irrelevant for a MEvo that needs zero support, is so unique in what it does, and is so dominant in the metagame.

 

[Srn]

You do realize we are talking about an offensive Pokemon here right? Not a tank, not a wall, but a bulky, fast, and very hard to wall offensive Pokemon. M-Metagross's bulk is nothing sort of amazing, being able to tank even Earthquake from Scarf Lando-T from full health and OHKO back. You say that it loses 50% from Latios's Draco Meteor like it's too much, when in reality it's too little. Offensive teams use Pokemon that can only check dangerous threats once all the time. For example, Mega Gardevoir is a common check to Lati@s in offense, even though it can only switch into them once. Same goes for stuff such as Azumarill and Keldeo, which can check a wide array of threats once or at best twice, but not more. The same is true with Mega Metagross, except it has more Speed and power than both of those Pokemon. Mega Metagross's main role is to nuke the hell out of everything, using its good typing and bulk to switch in easier and check many Pokemon, not to check threats for an extended period of time. You didn't see people saying that Keldeo should drop from S rank in XY because it could only check Mega Gyarados, Greninja without Grass moves, and Mega Tyranitar once did you?
It's complete bs in this case too, as Mega Metagross has plenty of room for everything it needs on a single set. Good luck switching into a set of dual STABs / Hammer Arm / Grass Knot, which outside of physically defensive Landorus-T and bulky Mega Scizor is unwallable. Just because Mega Metagross has a ton of viable options and is versatile doesn't mean that you can't fit everything you need on a single set, while the few Pokemon that stop Mega Metagross can be dealt by teammates. Bullet Punch, Pursuit, HP Fire, and other similar useful but niche moves don't make Mega Metagross strapped for moveslots, they make it able to fit on tons of teams and take tons of different roles and niches, while Agility gives Mega Metagrss legit versatility outside of niche moves used solely for the sake of dealing with few and very specific threats. Some of your examples of why certain moves are needed are also very bad, such as Hammer Arm being unable to KO Heatran and Ferrothorn, when Heatran is 2HKOed by MM + Hammer Arm with SR up and Ferrothorn loses 60% minimum from Hammer Arm and the best it can do back is use Leech Seed. This is like saying that Greninja has troubles against Heatran because it can't OHKO it and Heatran can Toxic it and then use Protect.

This is another statement often thrown in arguments just to give them more legitimacy, but is mostly irrelevant for a MEvo that needs zero support, is so unique in what it does, and is so dominant in the metagame.

Uhm mega metagross with stabs hammer arm and gknot is FAR from unwallable, lol. Aside from lando-t and mzor which you admitted, there are quite a few other pokemon that can handle it easily, like mandibuzz, skarm, mega sableye, gyarados, mega manectric, char-x, stallbreaker talon, defensive gliscor, and many more.
Yeah, i get that it has access to a lot of moves, but you're wrong when you say it can cover all it needs to in 4 moves. Mega metagross seriously suffers from 4mss It needs eq for some of the mons above, tpunch for skarm and gyara, hp fire for skarm and ferro, ice punch for gliscor and lando-t, gknot for practically any and every water(+hippo) and even with it it can't break CM megabro. Honestly if you don't get a meteor mash attack boost stall really isn't threatened by you. You literally cannot even 2hko chansey without hammer arm...
It's not even as if it has no true counters and just shifts them around by which move you choose to run! It has hard counters no matter what it runs, so the argument that 4mss actually makes it more threatening doesn't apply here either.
You're also losing out on a ton of other cool niche moves like you mentioned, not being able to run bullet punch or pursuit kinda sucks because mega metagross is such a good user of both.
This also isn't even taking into consideration that whenever you run a special move aka shit u need to actually threaten stuff you have to choose to drop your defense aka hasty or naive, and you really don't want to drop either :[
Also, your comparison of ninja vs tran to ferro vs mega metagross is horrible. Ferrothorn takes like 70% max from hammer, fine, but you're suffering leech seed+iron barbs residual damage (and you need to be in tip top shape to check shit, unlike ninja), and with protect and leftovers ferrothorn is basically able to take another low-mid (after the first one being max) roll hit, which forces even MORE passive damage onto you. you've dedicated a moveslot to handling this spiky piece of crap and you STILL lose half of your health dealing with it. Hammer Arm is a shitty way of dealing with ferro unless u nail it on the switch.

Ultimately, mega metagross is terrifying for offense but its really a breeze for stall to handle. It deserves to be at A+

EDIT: 777 post :O shoutouts to OU room ppl yay

 

[Schizzors]

Going with the superior opinion (as everyone who is saying something ridiculous like MGallade to B+ is stupid. It deserves A+ or S by far) because its the obvious choice.

Mega "Meta"Gross A+>S

Its got the damn thing in its name. It IS the meta. It is probably the only mon i can think of on the top of my head that has amazing balanced stats but isn't over centralizing (besides the base 100s) With availability to many STAB moves and its somewhat unique Meteor Mash move, it packs a punch into the meta. The best thing about this mon is not him itself, its that he is the perfect S rank mon too. Common mons check it, like ScarfTran (or Air Balloon >.>) and others, and you don't have to run weird shit to counter it (MMence, I'm looking at you. People running fucking Scarfed Gren cause of you lmao.) I don't wanna go too in depth in it, but it

Mega Gallade A+>A+

I know this seems ridiculous, but let me voice my opinion. The main problem I have with this thing is its Mega stats not switching in when it Megas. I feel like i have to run Protect on it cause not only does it get its 110 speed, it doesn't get its 95 Defense either, which really cripples it. And, there isn't a lot of Special Sweepers anymore, i mean, we have Greninja, Heatran, some XY Megas, etc. but cmon, its SpDef just sits there, wanting to be loved. I have to admit its really fucking powerful, but you don't sell a product for one giant thing it does, you know? I just don't think it lives up to S rank right now, with the meta being unbalanced and shit. When ORAS comes out and pokemon get suspected and banned, then it could go to S.

I probably wasn't clear enough in my starting paragraph, so ill dumb it down. MGallade is fast, strong, kinda bulky, but it all comes to a price. Mega stats don't come in when you mega; you gotta wait a turn to get the good stuffs. with that shit 80 speed, its gonna have trouble attacking or placing down a Sub. Of course, when it gets those stats, its a fucking beast, attacking harder than MGarde ever will hit. With great options like Knock Off, Close Combat, etc. it can really shred. But, are you really gonna put it to S rank without even looking at the negatives? Its not gonna survive a hit thats SE against it, it has like the worst fucking ability out of all the megas we had, and it does not like switching into a lot of things. Its a revenge killer at most, and while it works well most of the time, it's actually hard to sweep with since it has 80 speed before it megas and most of the time you gotta run Sub for SD. Definitely one of the better megas, but as of now, I'm pretty undecided on it going to S.


Srn nice 777 posts

 

[Parker.]

Uhm mega metagross with stabs hammer arm and gknot is FAR from unwallable, lol. Aside from lando-t and mzor which you admitted, there are quite a few other pokemon that can handle it easily, like mandibuzz, skarm, mega sableye, gyarados, mega manectric, char-x, stallbreaker talon, defensive gliscor, and many more.

Yeah all of those can take a hit, but they're all hit hard by one of Gross's STABs, and only half of them can do anything in return. Plus the sheer unpredictability of Gross's movepool means people aren't just gonna throw in stuff like Gyara and Char-X (stuff that's usually their wincon) for fear of taking a Tpunch or EQ to the face.

Mega Metagross for S

 

[Gloating]

Yeah all of those can take a hit, but they're all hit hard by one of Gross's STABs, and only half of them can do anything in return. Plus the sheer unpredictability of Gross's movepool means people aren't just gonna throw in stuff like Gyara and Char-X (stuff that's usually their wincon) for fear of taking a Tpunch or EQ to the face.

Mega Metagross for S

Yeah Mega Metagross has so many move options that people will probably end up getting screwed over because they thought it had Ice Punch, EQ or something like that. Unpredictability is what makes it so dangerous on top of everything that has already been said about it.

 

[Clone]

Another thing people seem to be forgetting about Megagross is that Magnezone pairs excellently with him. Not only does he trap Skarm ferro and sciz, but he's also able to beat bulky waters like Bro and Cune thanks to a very powerful TBolt / Volt Switch when backed by specs (which is much better than scarf when paired with grow btw). The fact that grow only needs one mon to remove half his checks / counters allows him to tailor his moves to suit his needs. In this case an agility set works well because he doesn't have to worry about being walled by bulky waters / steels, while the standard 4 attacks wallbreaker set doesn't have to use GK or hammer arm and instead use dual stabs + 2 coverage moves like Ice Punch and EQ.

The thing about Metagrosses movepool is that its large enough to bypass what it needs to and let's teammates handle what walls him. Aside from Magnezone, things like Keldeo, Greninja, and Talonflame pair well with him which allows him to use moves to get past certain mons while teammates handle the others. Yeah this is true for a lot of offensive mons but very few have his speed, bulk, typing AND power, which allows him to handle what he needs to and put in work for the match.

As for stall, he just needs to be paired with a few wall / stall breakers like Clef and the aforementioned mag. Stall really isn't a problem unless the entire team is weak to it, as gross has the power to clean up teams that have Been weakened.

Also, Metagross is blue. Every S rank is blue, so Metagross fits right in :D

Metagross for S.

 

[Schizzors]

I think we get that Megagross will be S rank, everyone who says not is a hater of the color blue. I don't think we need another person explaining what the other person just said again.

Hmm... Im really interested in Mega Slowbro. How about we talk about how MSlowbro should be A+ rank?

Also, another thing to note is that all of the people who think MSalamence should be banned right NOW is incorrect, as these pokemon are unreleased and this is just a sneak peek of the new meta. When ORAS comes out, MMence will surely be banned and most likely with Greninja.

 

[TaBuu]

supporting that mega metagross stay in a+ rank
​

nothing personal, but i don't see the justifications of using mega metagross over the current top ranking pokemon. quite frankly, from what i can see, mega metagross struggles against too many common threats in the oras ou metagame to validate a position in s-rank right now. bulky zard x, scarfed lando-t, bulk up talonflame , banded tyranitar and offensive greninja are some common offensive threats that mega metagross cannot consistently handle. mega metagross may have gotten some new toys from oras but it still possesses many of its fundamental weaknesses that prevent it from performing at its full capacity.
weakness to many common offensive typings such as dark, ground, fire and ghost is still a hindrance for mega metagross. 4mss leaves mega metagross heavily susceptible to various common threats. the new stat boosts are impressive but as previously stated, these new boosts may not be enough to overcome metagross's past weaknesses and stay ahead of all these new threats oras is bringing. lol, "unpredictable"? don't make it sound like something it really isn't. if mega metagross wants a fighting chance against top threats, it can't afford the luxury of packing obscure coverage moves. given the meta, mega metagross will be pressured to run certain moves regardless. it doesn't help that mega metagross really needs it two stabs which already limits the whole "unpreditable" factor.
i can see why people are so gung-ho to see mega-metagross but considering the whole "low risk, high reward" scenario for s-rank pokemon, mega metagross really can't boast to possess such a quality, imo.
but that's just me.

 

[Kurona]

To tell the truth I don't think the Dark weakness is much of a problem for Metagross anymore. I can't say it fears base 65 power Knock Offs with it's high defence no matter if it's weak to it or not, and beyond that it only fears Greninja's Dark Pulse (not aware of anything else that carries it), Crunch from Megados and t-tar, and Sucker Punch from Bisharp and... Dugtrio? Mega Absol? (while looking through the list I found Latias learns it. Weird.)
I dunno, I just don't feel the Dark weakness is too much of a bother for Metagross anymore due to not fearing Knock Off. Probably overstating this tho due to Greninja and Bisharp being common af and really good... but yeah.

 

[Wargreymon]

supporting that mega metagross stay in a+ rank
​

nothing personal, but i don't see the justifications of using mega metagross over the current top ranking pokemon. quite frankly, from what i can see, mega metagross struggles against too many common threats in the oras ou metagame to validate a position in s-rank right now. bulky zard x, scarfed lando-t, bulk up talonflame , banded tyranitar and offensive greninja are some common offensive threats that mega metagross cannot consistently handle. mega metagross may have gotten some new toys from oras but it still possesses many of its fundamental weaknesses that prevent it from performing at its full capacity.
weakness to many common offensive typings such as dark, ground, fire and ghost is still a hindrance for mega metagross. 4mss leaves mega metagross heavily susceptible to various common threats. the new stat boosts are impressive but as previously stated, these new boosts may not be enough to overcome metagross's past weaknesses and stay ahead of all these new threats oras is bringing. lol, "unpredictable"? don't make it sound like something it really isn't. if mega metagross wants a fighting chance against top threats, it can't afford the luxury of packing obscure coverage moves. given the meta, mega metagross will be pressured to run certain moves regardless. it doesn't help that mega metagross really needs it two stabs which already limits the whole "unpreditable" factor.
i can see why people are so gung-ho to see mega-metagross but considering the whole "low risk, high reward" scenario for s-rank pokemon, mega metagross really can't boast to possess such a quality, imo.
but that's just me.

If mega metagross isn't low risk high reward then nothing is. Mega metagross is actually the absolute prime example of a low risk high reward pokemon. It requires literally no support at all.
You talk about the new stats not helping to overcome its "past weaknesses". Regular metagross has bulk and power, all it was missing was speed. It's now a 110 base speed pokemon with more bulk and more power.

 

[jacksoras]

I don't know about this. DD has gotten worse, although Diancie (350 speed), Mega Metagross (base 350), and Mega Altaria (same base speed) don't outspeed after a DD, and Sceptile and Lopunny get outsped after a DD if Jolly (because no one runs max speed Sceptile really, all mixed sets). CB Dragonite is freaking amamzing at cleaning , however. Literally mows down Greninja, Talonflame, Weavile, Thundurus-I and all those other fast and frail mons without breaking a sweat. It's nice to have really strong priority that doesn't have to worrry about other priority or priority T-Waves at all. I've been using CB DNite a lot on the ladder and pretty much only use Extremespeed outside of the occasional Earthquake or Fire Punch on the painful obvious switch to Heatran or Ferrothorn. The Choice Band set may be enough to keep it where it is.

Im saying that mega lop and scept outspeed after dd, the rest check with resists and such.

 

[Schizzors]

supporting that mega metagross stay in a+ rank
​

nothing personal, but i don't see the justifications of using mega metagross over the current top ranking pokemon. quite frankly, from what i can see, mega metagross struggles against too many common threats in the oras ou metagame to validate a position in s-rank right now. bulky zard x, scarfed lando-t, bulk up talonflame , banded tyranitar and offensive greninja are some common offensive threats that mega metagross cannot consistently handle. mega metagross may have gotten some new toys from oras but it still possesses many of its fundamental weaknesses that prevent it from performing at its full capacity.
weakness to many common offensive typings such as dark, ground, fire and ghost is still a hindrance for mega metagross. 4mss leaves mega metagross heavily susceptible to various common threats. the new stat boosts are impressive but as previously stated, these new boosts may not be enough to overcome metagross's past weaknesses and stay ahead of all these new threats oras is bringing. lol, "unpredictable"? don't make it sound like something it really isn't. if mega metagross wants a fighting chance against top threats, it can't afford the luxury of packing obscure coverage moves. given the meta, mega metagross will be pressured to run certain moves regardless. it doesn't help that mega metagross really needs it two stabs which already limits the whole "unpreditable" factor.
i can see why people are so gung-ho to see mega-metagross but considering the whole "low risk, high reward" scenario for s-rank pokemon, mega metagross really can't boast to possess such a quality, imo.
but that's just me.

but y mang

Don't hurt Megagross's feelings like that.
I also don't see why you are pointing out its checks. Latios has like 5 checks, demote it to A, rite? The thing Megagross has as an advantage is that it can run moves to take out its threats. Also, id like to point out that half of the shit you mentioned are rare variations or are dying out (XY Megas aren't very used in the ORAS game, if you didn't know) and banded TTar is so fucking uncommon. I agree, it does lose out on common weaknesses, but I'm gonna pull the other pokemon tactic, as Lati@s has common weaknesses and that doesn't stop it. I also love how you didn't acknowledge its speed tier or its attack. 4mss? All it needs is Ice Punch, Meteor Mash, GK/EQ and Hone Claws/Zen Headbutt, varying on the set you want Megagross. He's really easy to play with; he switches in to threats quite easily (Something MGallade cannot) and he doesn't mind switching in a million times. Ofc he isn't unpredictable, thats like saying Balanced Hackmons is predictable, so what? Not a lot can switch into it, and when its threats are gone, it can fucking shred like crazy. Obscure? Coverage Moves? What does that even fucking mean? Coverage is to cover a few types, and to be obscure is to be rare, hard to find, etc. and Ice Punch, Meteor Mash, Zen Heatbutt, and EQ cover a lot of fucking shit.

I don't know why you are basing your whole argument against it being predictable as that has nothing to do with viability. People are gonna trash you just like the people who say Aegi is 50/50 prediction. It has nothing to do with viability, don't bring it here.

 

[yoloburn]

Going by the definition of what consists an S-rank, neither Metagross or Gallade fulfill it in my opinion.

Looking at examples from XY, Chard X has always been S-rank and for good reason. It fits perfectly in all teams, whether stall, HO, balance, bulky, etc. It was the best DDer too so it excelled excellently on its role. Azumarill was at one point the perfect glue pokemon. Bisharp was unstoppable with Deo at the beginning of the meta (I think it was S-rank at one point iirc). Keldeo was the best choice specs user, one of the best scarf users, amazing wallbreaker, great revenge killer, and its CM set was really good too. It also found its way into semi-stall teams, along with every variant of offensive teams. Greninja 2HKOs the entire meta, it has no switch ins.

With that said:

Metagross > A+ rank

Metagross is not really a wallbreaker. It hits hard, but 4MSS makes it easy to wall if it doesn't have the appropriate coverage. Not to repost everything others have mentioned, but there are a few very common pokemons that don't have trouble switching it and it just can't sweep until they're gone. It can't sweep without an agility set, the meta is too fast and 110 doesn't cut it. Most teams have at least 2 pokemons that could probably revenge kill it after damage. And the agility set needs to wait until the end of the game to set up and properly sweep, which is honestly a job a lot of pokemon can do as well. Metagross is really good, but not S-ranked. I think its main advantage right now is that it's so versatile so you never know what set its running.

Mega Gallade > A+ rank

Neither is Gallade. It's a really good wallbreaker and would have made S-rank immediately in XY, but between its low defenses and new fast threats, along with Sableye being a great gift for stall, it just doesn't cut it.

Mega Sableye > A+ rank

This thing really needs to go up some ranks. If unprepared, it's going to sweep your entire team. It really is so good, like if you don't have a fairy attack then you will be in big trouble. All it needs is one misplay for it to set up and sweep. I feel like this thing reminds me of CM Clefable in XY, but even better. It takes up a mega slot and doesn't have the huge utility Clefable provides, but it's still amazing for keeping stuff off your side of the field, burning physical attackers, and setting up for a sweep. Just a really great pokemon.

Keldeo > A+ rank

I support this drop. Keldeo is still really good with a scarf, but it's not the dominant force it was in XY.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Mega Gallade seems too high. Admittedly haven't used it, but it doesn't really resist any priority, has poor Speed before Mega evolving, is walled completely by MegaBro, Sableye and others, is too slow by ORAS Mega standards. Decent, but not exceptional enough to be that high.

Rest of my post might get ignored for not being S/A+ but I'm not gonna be hanging around here for the next few weeks so yeah.

+2 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

Megabro is a ways away from 'completely walling' Megallade.

 

[Worthlessnoob]

I'd like to nominate Zapdos for B+. Currently, I think it's one of the best Salamence checks as well as a good defogger. Mence can't really do too much to Zapdos as it resists return. Zapdos can break Salamence's subs with Tbolt which makes it easy to Toxic it after you play a bit of mind games. Plus, you can run a phazing move if that doesn't work well. Zapdos also checks Slowbro, as it wins against CroBro (even if it's SpDef I believe with 68 SpAtk Evs) and regular Calm Mind gets worn down by Toxic. It does lose to some things like Mega-Diancie, and Mega Sableye which is bad, but that's why I'm not nominating it any higher.

I also think Rhyperior could rise to A-. It's really important to have a good Mence check in this meta, and Rhyperior does that just like Zapdos. It can break Mence's subs and set up rocks. Rock Blast can hit through subs and give you a chance to Toxic it. By the way, I think Toxic is better than Ice Punch currently, because of annoying Rotoms, but you can run Ice Punch too. Rhyperior also has a huge amount of physical bulk. Look:

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 199-235 (46.9 - 55.4%) -- 15.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

While it easily 2HKOs back:

44+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The fact that it can tank a hit from nearly all the physical attackers in the game and hit back hard for solid damage while supporting the team by keeping the biggest threat, Mence, in check is worth a lot in my opinion, making it worthy of a bump in rank.

 

[koista12]

+2 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

Megabro is a ways away from 'completely walling' Megallade.

Mega bro has reliable recovery and can burn gallade with scald. it most definitely walls mega gallade.

 

[TaBuu]

It requires literally no support at all.

mega metagross suffers from 4mss heavily and it cannot dream of functioning effectively with "no support at all".

Regular metagross has bulk and power, all it was missing was speed. It's now a 110 base speed pokemon with more bulk and more power.

base 110 speed and a bump in bulk and power still doesn't accomplish fighting against top threats. it still loses to bulk zard x, greninja, tyranitar, landorus-t, etc

Latios has like 5 checks, demote it to A, rite?

latios deserves s-ranking because not many other pokemon can claim its spot as a fantastic offensive defogger and potent choice scarf user.

Also, id like to point out that half of the shit you mentioned are rare variations or are dying out (XY Megas aren't very used in the ORAS game, if you didn't know)

every single threat that i mentioned is a relevant ou pokemon. 2 of the 4 mentioned threats are s-rank pokemon while the other 2 reside in a+.

4mss? All it needs is Ice Punch, Meteor Mash, GK/EQ and Hone Claws/Zen Headbutt, varying on the set you want Megagross.

if eq is chosen over grass knot, bulky water types have a field day. if grass knot is chosen over eq, heatran, mega zard x and bisharp comfortably can take on mega metagross. hone claws will provide mega metagross set-up but it misses out on stab zen headbutt which is needed to make sure keldeo doesn't shred mega metagross. zen headbutt will provide that coverage at the expense of metagross not bein able to break through pokemon such as skarmory and ferrothorn.

He's really easy to play with; he switches in to threats quite easily (Something MGallade cannot) and he doesn't mind switching in a million times.

i'm just going to quote what MikeDawg said about this
"Examples include Landorus-T (EdgeQuake, though scarf lando does not possess the ability to use both), Talonflame (Fire/Flying), Weavile (Ice, Dark), any physical dragon, since fire/ground coverage is standard. Even a switch into Latios will result in losing about 50%. Combine this with a lack of recovery, and Metagross is not taking nearly as many hits as one would desire. On the special spectrum, it is taking at least 50% from nearly any non-resisted special attack, and things like Keldeo's hydro pump can straight-up KO it with a bit of prior damage. While its bulk does give it a decent amount of staying power while it is on the field, its switchin opportunities are limited, and this is a huge problem given that a large selling point is ease of coming in as a result of its bulk. The fact that Gross needs to spend a turn Megavolving before it has that outstanding bulk/speed only adds to the issue."

I don't know why you are basing your whole argument against it being predictable as that has nothing to do with viability. People are gonna trash you just like the people who say Aegi is 50/50 prediction. It has nothing to do with viability, don't bring it here.

my main argument was this : "quite frankly, from what i can see, mega metagross struggles against too many common threats in the oras ou metagame to validate a position in s-rank right now."
i don't even state once during my entire post that mega metagross is predictable. i simply stated that mega metagross's unpredictable factor is limited in nature due to all the threats that it needs to cover.

 

[Kyuzeth]

I'd like to nominate Zapdos for B+. Currently, I think it's one of the best Salamence checks as well as a good defogger. Mence can't really do too much to Zapdos as it resists return. Zapdos can break Salamence's subs with Tbolt which makes it easy to Toxic it after you play a bit of mind games. Plus, you can run a phazing move if that doesn't work well. Zapdos also checks Slowbro, as it wins against CroBro (even if it's SpDef I believe with 68 SpAtk Evs) and regular Calm Mind gets worn down by Toxic. It does lose to some things like Mega-Diancie, and Mega Sableye which is bad, but that's why I'm not nominating it any higher.

I also think Rhyperior could rise to A-. It's really important to have a good Mence check in this meta, and Rhyperior does that just like Zapdos. It can break Mence's subs and set up rocks. Rock Blast can hit through subs and give you a chance to Toxic it. By the way, I think Toxic is better than Ice Punch currently, because of annoying Rotoms, but you can run Ice Punch too. Rhyperior also has a huge amount of physical bulk. Look:

252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 172-204 (40.5 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

While it easily 2HKOs back:

44+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The fact that it can tank a hit from nearly all the physical attackers in the game and hit back hard for solid damage while supporting the team by keeping the biggest threat, Mence, in check is worth a lot in my opinion, making it worthy of a bump in rank.

I disagree on Zapdos rising. It really isn't that solid of a Mega Salamence check, as the dragon commonly carries Refresh to cure itself of status and can Roost off any move thrown at it. Due to its higher Speed, it'll Roost before Zapdos can fire its Thunderbolts. In conjunction with Substitute, bulky variants can PP stall Zapdos and then proceed to get DDs up and sweep your team. Before you comment on PP, Max HP Megamence can take two Thunderbolts and then Roost off the damage, resisting the following T-Bolt. It should stay in B.

Rhyperior, on the other hand, I can see rising to A-. It's one of the best checks to some major threats, such as physical (especially mono-attacker) Mega Salamence, Mega Metagross, Mega Aerodactyl and many others. With physical attackers being such major threats and Rhyperior having the capability of dealing with just about all of them, it deserves to rise.

 

[Worthlessnoob]

I just realized my post is going to be ignored in the next update, but I'll keep it there so I can quote it in the future.

About the A+ and S ranks, Mew, ZardY, and MegaVenu should all drop because they suck against Mence. They're still good, but giving Mence free switches is bad, and the meta is much more fast paced now making their jobs harder.

Keldeo should drop from S-rank I suppose, but I don't really like to see Keld drop too much, because checking Scizor, Bisharp, and Gren (without Grass Move) is huge. I tend to use it on a ton of my ORAS teams because Specs is a nice attacker that has utility in beating so many threats and Scarf is a really good revenge killer. It also beats the most common Scarfer in Landorus-T.

Mega-Metagross for S is something I'm not positive about. It is a good attacker, but stall got better with Mega-Slowbro so I'm unsure how MegaGross is going to fair in this meta if stall gets more popular. Then, again, MegaGross has a ton of coverage options, which allows you to tailor it for your teams need. It also has Agility and Hone Claws, so a rise doesn't seem bad to me.

Gallade should stay A+. It's pretty good, but I would not call it metagame defining. You need a check to it (like all threats), but all of its checks are good mons, like MegaBro and Mega Sableye so it's not a big deal.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

The thing with the mBro v MegaGross argument is that megagross can be changed with most of the megas that have been toyed around with recently. Which makes me wonder what mBro is doing not in A+, but I digress. Slowbro hard walls most megas, but that doesn't really mean much for megagross as much as it does mega bro. The thing about megagross is, you don't exactly know how to "wall" it until you know the full set. Yes, it does have 4MSS, but that's actually both a blessing and a curse. The curse is obvious, but the blessing is that the opponent doesn't always know what all 4 of those moveslots are until they've seen them all used, which often times, is too late. So what does that mean? It means MegaGross has very few things that deal with all the sets it runs. The opponent thus has to hope you don't have X move, switch in their would be check/counter, then get rocked by X move.

I don't believe anyone here is saying dealing with megagross is impossible, but I think we can all agree it is one of the most terrifying Pokemon to see on the other side of the field.

 

[Schizzors]

mega metagross suffers from 4mss heavily and it cannot dream of functioning effectively with "no support at all".

base 110 speed and a bump in bulk and power still doesn't accomplish fighting against top threats. it still loses to bulk zard x, greninja, tyranitar, landorus-t, etc

latios deserves s-ranking because not many other pokemon can claim its spot as a fantastic offensive defogger and potent choice scarf user.

every single threat that i mentioned is a relevant ou pokemon. 2 of the 4 mentioned threats are s-rank pokemon while the other 2 reside in a+.

if eq is chosen over grass knot, bulky water types have a field day. if grass knot is chosen over eq, heatran, mega zard x and bisharp comfortably can take on mega metagross. hone claws will provide mega metagross set-up but it misses out on stab zen headbutt which is needed to make sure keldeo doesn't shred mega metagross. zen headbutt will provide that coverage at the expense of metagross not bein able to break through pokemon such as skarmory and ferrothorn.

i'm just going to quote what MikeDawg said about this
"Examples include Landorus-T (EdgeQuake, though scarf lando does not possess the ability to use both), Talonflame (Fire/Flying), Weavile (Ice, Dark), any physical dragon, since fire/ground coverage is standard. Even a switch into Latios will result in losing about 50%. Combine this with a lack of recovery, and Metagross is not taking nearly as many hits as one would desire. On the special spectrum, it is taking at least 50% from nearly any non-resisted special attack, and things like Keldeo's hydro pump can straight-up KO it with a bit of prior damage. While its bulk does give it a decent amount of staying power while it is on the field, its switchin opportunities are limited, and this is a huge problem given that a large selling point is ease of coming in as a result of its bulk. The fact that Gross needs to spend a turn Megavolving before it has that outstanding bulk/speed only adds to the issue."

my main argument was this : "quite frankly, from what i can see, mega metagross struggles against too many common threats in the oras ou metagame to validate a position in s-rank right now."
i don't even state once during my entire post that mega metagross is predictable. i simply stated that mega metagross's unpredictable factor is limited in nature due to all the threats that it needs to cover.

sorry i was playing some ORAS OU.
Mega Meta struggles against a few amount of mons, and Greninja suffers against a wide variety of 4MSS, as most would rather run GK instead of Dark Pulse so they can stop Swampert. One thing to note is that Physical Dragons usually run Fire Blast, and frankly a Fire Blast won't take out MMeta. Im not saying it can switch into hard hitters like Latios easily, I'm saying it can switch into things like Clefable and others. Who would be the idiot to switch into Lando T?

You can't demote a mon for having checks and counters, though. You can if it is outclassed, or if it doesn't do its job well. And as we see, Mega "Meta"Gross is far from outclassed and doing a shit job. It does its job great as a fast bulky sweeper. He defines high reward, low risk p fucking well.

You say Latios is s rank cause it is a great defogger and choice scarf user. Well, Mega Metagross is a good sweeper, bulky, and stops most of the meta from shredding your teams asshole in two. Latios has as many checks as Mega Meta, and Metagross does an arguably more important job than Latios. So why not bump Mega Meta to S rank? the pokemon you showed are high ranked but rank doesn't necessary mean usage. Banded TTar is a decent set but isn't use that much at all, Charizard X is seeing less usage cause of ORAS megas getting more play, etc.
Why do you keep bringing up its checks? its speed is good, its bulk is good, everything is balanced and good on it! It gets pummeled by a few pokemon, so does every other pokemon in existence! you can't make that as your argument backup! Please!

Also, the main reason Mega Meta is going up is because of something called BLUE

 

[alexwolf]

Uhm mega metagross with stabs hammer arm and gknot is FAR from unwallable, lol. Aside from lando-t and mzor which you admitted, there are quite a few other pokemon that can handle it easily, like mandibuzz, skarm, mega sableye, gyarados, mega manectric, char-x, stallbreaker talon, defensive gliscor, and many more.
Yeah, i get that it has access to a lot of moves, but you're wrong when you say it can cover all it needs to in 4 moves. Mega metagross seriously suffers from 4mss It needs eq for some of the mons above, tpunch for skarm and gyara, hp fire for skarm and ferro, ice punch for gliscor and lando-t, gknot for practically any and every water(+hippo) and even with it it can't break CM megabro. Honestly if you don't get a meteor mash attack boost stall really isn't threatened by you. You literally cannot even 2hko chansey without hammer arm...
It's not even as if it has no true counters and just shifts them around by which move you choose to run! It has hard counters no matter what it runs, so the argument that 4mss actually makes it more threatening doesn't apply here either.
You're also losing out on a ton of other cool niche moves like you mentioned, not being able to run bullet punch or pursuit kinda sucks because mega metagross is such a good user of both.
This also isn't even taking into consideration that whenever you run a special move aka shit u need to actually threaten stuff you have to choose to drop your defense aka hasty or naive, and you really don't want to drop either :[
Also, your comparison of ninja vs tran to ferro vs mega metagross is horrible. Ferrothorn takes like 70% max from hammer, fine, but you're suffering leech seed+iron barbs residual damage (and you need to be in tip top shape to check shit, unlike ninja), and with protect and leftovers ferrothorn is basically able to take another low-mid (after the first one being max) roll hit, which forces even MORE passive damage onto you. you've dedicated a moveslot to handling this spiky piece of crap and you STILL lose half of your health dealing with it. Hammer Arm is a shitty way of dealing with ferro unless u nail it on the switch.

Ultimately, mega metagross is terrifying for offense but its really a breeze for stall to handle. It deserves to be at A+

EDIT: 777 post :O shoutouts to OU room ppl yay

• 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 163-193 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
• 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• -1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 153-180 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
• -1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 151-178 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Charizard: 231-273 (64.3 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 249-294 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

About Skarmory, it loses because Hammer Arm means Skarmory can't Roost when mega Metagross becomes slower, so it only wins if it has Counter, which admittedly i forgot as lately i have been using Brave Bird over it. Physically defensive Gliscor loses if Mega Metagross gets the Attack boost from Meteor Mash, which is not difficult at all to do with Mega Metagross's resilience and considering how Gliscor only 2HKOes with EQ, with each hit doing ~53%. And yeah i am assuming SR up, any offensive team worth a damn will have SR setters able to to beat Mega Sableye, such as Landorus, Clefable, SR Mold Breaker Excadrill, SD Lum Berry Garchomp, etc.

All those moves you claim that Metagross needs, it doesn't really. All you need is teammates to pressure the few Pokemon that counter Mega Metagross (Skarmory, Landorus-T, Gliscor, bulky Mega Scizor), and you have a Pokemon that is great against every single playstyle while being one of the most self sufficient Pokemon thanks to lack of obvious flaws. It has bulk, speed, power, and versatility, there is not a single aspect in which Mega Metagross is lacking.

Finally, are you really telling me that Mega Metagross beats Ferro only if Ferro switches into it? This is obvious, and i don't even know why we are talking about it, the point is that Ferrothorn is a nuisance at best to Hammer Arm Mega Metagross. And for the last time, Mega Metagross doesn't need to be healthy to do its job, it depends on what job it has on your team. You telling me that a fast and really powerful Pokemon is not useful when on low health? Why is that? Just because it can't check stuff anymore doesn't mean it can't break holes in the opponent's team or revenge kill stuff.

 

[TaBuu]

sorry i was playing some ORAS OU.
Mega Meta struggles against a few amount of mons, and Greninja suffers against a wide variety of 4MSS, as most would rather run GK instead of Dark Pulse so they can stop Swampert. One thing to note is that Physical Dragons usually run Fire Blast, and frankly a Fire Blast won't take out MMeta. Im not saying it can switch into hard hitters like Latios easily, I'm saying it can switch into things like Clefable and others. Who would be the idiot to switch into Lando T?

You can't demote a mon for having checks and counters, though. You can if it is outclassed, or if it doesn't do its job well. And as we see, Mega "Meta"Gross is far from outclassed and doing a shit job. It does its job great as a fast bulky sweeper. He defines high reward, low risk p fucking well.

You say Latios is s rank cause it is a great defogger and choice scarf user. Well, Mega Metagross is a good sweeper, bulky, and stops most of the meta from shredding your teams asshole in two. Latios has as many checks as Mega Meta, and Metagross does an arguably more important job than Latios. So why not bump Mega Meta to S rank? the pokemon you showed are high ranked but rank doesn't necessary mean usage. Banded TTar is a decent set but isn't use that much at all, Charizard X is seeing less usage cause of ORAS megas getting more play, etc.
Why do you keep bringing up its checks? its speed is good, its bulk is good, everything is balanced and good on it! It gets pummeled by a few pokemon, so does every other pokemon in existence! you can't make that as your argument backup! Please!

Also, the main reason Mega Meta is going up is because of something called BLUE

Why do you keep bringing up its checks?
When a pokemon's performance ability is hampered severely by common offensive threats, that should be an immediate eye-brow raiser for any s-rank nominated pokemon. how can you expect it to provide s-rank worthy performance when it can't stay out on the field consistently and put in the work that it needs to put in.

Well, Mega Metagross is a good sweeper, bulky, and stops most of the meta from shredding your teams asshole in two.
No offense but that was the most uninformed, childish sounding sentence I've heard come out of somebody's mouth on a viability thread. There are plenty of good sweepers out there, but not all are deserving of s rank. bulk is not a requirement for s-rank and that last part is just wrong. Considering the number of pokemon that can "shred" mega metagross, that last part isn't sounding all too realistic.

We're entitled to out opinions and I respect yours. In fact, there seems to be a majority in favor of Mega Metagross going to S-rank. I'm fine with that but I choose to stick with my A+ Rank argument. This constant back and forth is not really going anywhere and quite honestly your posts are giving me a headache, considering how many cusses i have to read through to understand what you're trying to say.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

I hate to be the double posting dick here, but Stop talking about MMence checks cause MMence will be banned when ORAS comes out. He is AIDS to the meta and needs to die in a fucking hole in Ubers.

Also, another thing to note is that all of the people who think MSalamence should be banned right NOW is incorrect, as these pokemon are unreleased and this is just a sneak peek of the new meta. When ORAS comes out, MMence will surely be banned and most likely with Greninja.

So, yeah, while it's here, Mega-Sal is a problem that has to be taken into account when teambuilding if you want to do well on the ORAS ladder and affects the viability of other mons. You can't ignore just because it may be removed in the future, especially if it gets suspected instead of quick-banned.

sorry i was playing some ORAS OU.
Mega Meta struggles against a few amount of mons, and Greninja suffers against a wide variety of 4MSS, as most would rather run GK instead of Dark Pulse so they can stop Swampert. One thing to note is that Physical Dragons usually run Fire Blast, and frankly a Fire Blast won't take out MMeta. Im not saying it can switch into hard hitters like Latios easily, I'm saying it can switch into things like Clefable and others. Who would be the idiot to switch into Lando T?

Greninja has 4MSS, but Mega-Gross doesn't? I think there are quite a few that would disagree. Also, surviving an uninvested special attack is not that great of an accomplishment; I'm sure that you can find plenty of megas that can brag about surviving uninvested hits.

You can't demote a mon for having checks and counters, though. You can if it is outclassed, or if it doesn't do its job well. And as we see, Mega "Meta"Gross is far from outclassed and doing a shit job. It does its job great as a fast bulky sweeper. He defines high reward, low risk p fucking well.

We can't demote for a mon having checks and counters, but if everyone is packing 1-2 of them because its checks and counters are plentiful and serve roles outside of checking M-Gross, then yes we can demote on the grounds of its checks being everywhere. I'm not saying that M-Gross HAS a lot of checks, but to assume that viability is separate from the quantity of checks it has and the usage of those checks is, in my mind, absurd.

You say Latios is s rank cause it is a great defogger and choice scarf user. Well, Mega Metagross is a good sweeper, bulky, and stops most of the meta from shredding your teams asshole in two. Latios has as many checks as Mega Meta, and Metagross does an arguably more important job than Latios. So why not bump Mega Meta to S rank? the pokemon you showed are high ranked but rank doesn't necessary mean usage. Banded TTar is a decent set but isn't use that much at all, Charizard X is seeing less usage cause of ORAS megas getting more play, etc.

You can't say that a wallbreaker is more important than a defogger / revenge killer. That's like saying apples are more important in fruit store than oranges and bananas. Also, usage =/= viability.

Why do you keep bringing up its checks? its speed is good, its bulk is good, everything is balanced and good on it! It gets pummeled by a few pokemon, so does every other pokemon in existence! you can't make that as your argument backup! Please!

Also, the main reason Mega Meta is going up is because of something called BLUE

We will continue to bring up checks because checks are relevant. If there are few good checks, an offensive mon is more viable. If there are a lot of relevant checks, an offensive mon is less viable. Checks cannot be ignored and will always be relevant to viability.

 

[Schizzors]

Why do you keep bringing up its checks?
When a pokemon's performance ability is hampered severely by common offensive threats, that should be an immediate eye-brow raiser for any s-rank nominated pokemon. how can you expect it to provide s-rank worthy performance when it can't stay out on the field consistently and put in the work that it needs to put in.

Well, Mega Metagross is a good sweeper, bulky, and stops most of the meta from shredding your teams asshole in two.
No offense but that was the most uninformed, childish sounding sentence I've heard come out of somebody's mouth on a viability thread. There are plenty of good sweepers out there, but not all are deserving of s rank. bulk is not a requirement for s-rank and that last part is just wrong. Considering the number of pokemon that can "shred" mega metagross, that last part isn't sounding all too realistic.

We're entitled to out opinions and I respect yours. In fact, there seems to be a majority in favor of Mega Metagross going to S-rank. I'm fine with that but I choose to stick with my A+ Rank argument. This constant back and forth is not really going anywhere and quite honestly your posts are giving me a headache, considering how many cusses i have to read through to understand what you're trying to say.

If you are gonna stick with your A+ argument (Which I in fact see as a decent argument as well) and i can't change your opinion, i might as well not bother. Im not trying to be the dick here, and i hope I'm not being the dick.

No offense but that was the most uninformed, childish sounding sentence I've heard come out of somebody's mouth on a viability thread.
:( that stung like beedrill. i was just trying to use good wordplay :(.
Abyways, Metagross does stop most fighting types that don't carry knock off, like Breloom, Breloom, and did i mention breloom?
It also cleans a lot of Fairy types, and it speed ties with Diancie. It basically clears every single one that isn't named Azumarill.
If it runs EQ it cleans most of the Steels and stuff, and so on. Mega Meta forces switch outs a lot of the time. Thats what i think, of course.

Sanger Zonvolt what i mean is that you don't base a whole argument against its checks. You gotta add more to it, like its coverage, support, SR weakness, ability (it has a darn good one)
And what i also meant by usage doesn't really mean ranking is that some sets are used more than others, Ex. AV/Sand setter TTar>Banded TTar LO Lati@s>Scarfed Lati@s and so forth.

The viability list should be reflecting how the metagame is currently, not how it will be in the future. If Mega Salamence is impacting a certain Pokemon's viability, then said Pokemon should be moved to the appropriate rank to reflect its viability in the metagame. Once Mega Salamence is banned, then the Pokemon's rank can be changed again to reflect its viability in the new metagame.
EDIT: Ninja'd

even then, everyone who posted stuff about MMence will be ignored after MMence is banned, so its a good future preference thing.
And when we bump things for MMence checks, Alexwolf has to do MORE and MORE work on the viability thread, and lets be honest, Alexwolf got better things to do than this every day.

Im not stopping people from doing it, but its not the best idea