Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

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I believe that Mega- Medicham should be bumped up to A+ or even S rank. It is too powerful to go unnoticed. HJK does significant damage to just about every phys wall in the tier. It can 2HKO Skarmory(probably the best pphys wall in OU) and even a burned HJK OHKOs Rotom-W. On top of that, running the dual priority set, with psycho cut, it seems to have a significant dominance over most of its counters. Please let me know what you think.
Burned HJK doesn't OHKO Rotom, and Skarmory being the /best/ wall is just wrong, and it has its fair share of checks that are very easy to throw on teams (for reference, Flying is the most common type in OU)

It's comparable to Mega Gardevoir, but Gardevoir actually adds synergy to a team, among other things Medicham lacks. It's great, but not as meta defining as say, Charizard X
 
252+ Atk Pure Power burned Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 183-216 (75.9 - 89.6%)

Even if Rotom-W doesn't run any defensive EVs, you can't OHKO.

[EDIT]: Ninja'd
 

Clone

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I believe that Mega- Medicham should be bumped up to A+ or even S rank. It is too powerful to go unnoticed. HJK does significant damage to just about every phys wall in the tier. It can 2HKO Skarmory(probably the best pphys wall in OU) and even a burned HJK OHKOs Rotom-W. On top of that, running the dual priority set, with psycho cut, it seems to have a significant dominance over most of its counters. Please let me know what you think.
I think that Medi shouldn't be any higher than A- and here's why

First of all, he's a great wallbreaker and shits on stall, which is what earns him the A- ranking. However, he's frail af and sits in an overcrowded speed tier which severely limits his performance vs offense. Unlike Megachomp, Hera, and Garde (specially at least), Medi has no bulk, which limits switch in opportunities to practically zero. He's also weak to bird spam and is shut down by genie spam, two major threats in OU rn. On top of all this, medis HJK, while the most powerful move in the game (idk, maybe adamant victinis banded v create is more powerful), also cut his hp in half if it misses or if someone protects. This makes him a liability vs Chansey and Ferrothorn, who can simply protect on the HJK and strip Medi of half his health. Not gonna touch on how a 2 rank jump to mons that run the tier like chomp and megados seems kinda absurd.

Medi is definitely good, but he isn't great. A- is fine for him.
 
For the flaming donkeys why did Hawlucha did not even get listed pokemon to discuss area, mega medicham and heracross both got higher ranked because of aegi loss and hawlucha has no more worries about aegislash now.

Other than it still gets hurted by powerful common pokemon like, thundurus, zapdos, talonflame and mega pinsir, including it can't take on stall well due to slowbro and skarmory, hawlucha should be in a team with pokemon like magneszone, lando-t, stallbreakers, stealth rock user and electric types so that hawlucha can reach its full potential including that hawlucha dose need to switch into the right pokemon and have to activate unburden and sword dance

However once u sort all of hawlucha's problems, its can become a real good sweeper with menacing 118 speed and having the Hi Jump Kick and Acrobatics stabs which can be very good coverage to handle rock types, grass types, dark types, bug types, fighting types and steel types

Also Here are some cool calcs to help this nomination
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 340-402 (106.2 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 310-366 (96.8 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 283-334 (82.2 - 97%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 312-367 (90.6 - 106.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 261-307 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 375-442 (92.8 - 109.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

I think C+ is good enough for hawlucha, i can see Hawlucha getting C rank or B- but I Think C+ fits Hawlucha well
 

Karxrida

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You've forgotten Mega Gardevoir, as several people have suggested it to move up to A, myself included. As Smog Frog before me has stated, you've missed Staraptor as well. Can't blame you at all, since it was indeed a fuckton to go through. Anyway, I'll be reposting my nominations for Staraptor and Mega Gardevoir in a spoiler tag.

Staraptor (B-) -> B+ | Speaking of actually underrated Pokémon, Staraptor is another fantastic wallbreaker to add the repertoire of rising stars in OU ever since Aegislash packed its stuff and left for the gods. Seriously, this thing can hit brutally hard when Banded, which is easily its best use. As people before me have pointed out (and I'm also saying this out of personal experience), Adamant Band Raptor just hits brutally hard with STAB Brave Bird and Double-Edge, shredding everything that doesn't resist it. Here's a small example:
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 252-297 (82.8 - 97.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
This right here is why Staraptor runs Adamant; that extremely high power output makes a huge difference between 2HKOs and OHKOs and all you need is to set up your Rocks and have Staraptor maul everything. It pairs excellently with Talonflame and Mega Pinsir to form a Flying Spam core, Staraptor crushing all the walls that need to be broken down to allow Talonflame or Mega Pinsir to sweep safely. As a last positive note, Staraptor attains perfect coverage between Normal/Flying/Fighting and in conjunction with its insane power, it's extremely difficult to switch in on. What keeps bomb burd down from being a total annihilator are its weakness to SR, its above-average Speed stat of 100, its relative frailty (85/70/60) and its common weaknesses to Electric-, Rock- and Ice-type moves. With Aegislash out of the picture, though, Staraptor has become a whole ton more impressive in OU. Staraptor for B+. Kacaw.

Mega Gardevoir (A-) -> A | You thought Mega Heracross was a nightmare to Stall? If that's what you thought, then Mega Gardevoir would be the poltergeist haunting it! Seriously, this Pokémon has become even more amazing than it already was. 165 Special Attack is absolutely fantastic and Mega Gardevoir has just the right movepool to maliciously abuse the living fuck out of it. Its signature Pixilate Hyper Voice has 175 power counting STAB and Pixilate, but its Fairy-type and ability to bypass Substitutes is just mind-blowing. This move alone makes Mega Gardevoir ridiculously hard to switch in on, but this dancer has access to STAB Psyshock to hit physically weak Pokémon and provide additional coverage. The third main move on Mega Gardevoir is Focus Blast, which, while inaccurate, allows it to slay most of the Steel-types that tend to annoy it, including Heatran, Skarmory and Mega Mawile. Since Aegislash has left, these three moves provide perfect coverage in OU and leave room for another useful move to add: Calm Mind allows Gardevoir to raise its Special Attack to insane levels, while giving it notable Special Defense to take hits on the special spectrum; Taunt gives Mega Gardevoir the ability to completely lay waste to Stall teams; and Will-O-Wisp lets it cripple physical attackers for a teammate to set up on or catch said attackers by surprise on the switch to live a physical hit. Additionally, stat-wise, Mega Gardevoir has a wonderful Special Defense stat of 135, giving it notable special bulk that can be augmented by Calm Mind, as mentioned before. 100 Speed is a good Speed tier in OU and since several other base 100s often don't go max Speed, Mega Gardevoir can easily run a Modest nature to make its power simply absurd.
With all these fantastic advantages, Mega Gardevoir does have some notable flaws. Firstly, its measly base 65 Defense gives it no physical bulk if not using Will-O-Wisp and leaves it prone to being revenge killed; Talonflame is the worst offender, as it's immune to burn courtesy of its own Fire-type. Additionally, 100 Speed is good, but not fantastic and leaves Mega Gardevoir outsped by key OU threats, such as the Eons, Thundurus-I and Landorus-I. This issue can be fixed by using Sticky Web, however, and Mega Gardevoir is easily one of its best abusers in the OU tier. To summarize, Mega Gardevoir is a massive threat due to its general unpredictability, jaw-breaking special power and being extremely difficult to directly switch in on. Mega Gardevoir for A.
Mega Gardy's fine in A-. It still has a really bad matchup against offense, really bad physical bulk, and has like 1 set. Mega Cham has priority (really shit priority but it's better than nothing), is far more versatile, and hits harder. Mega Cross is a bulky mofo who can survive shit like LO Latios' Psyshock.
 
Mega Houndoom rising to C+
Yes. The speed makes him worthwhile over Gardevoir if you really need a special attacking mega, and he can still break walls with taunt.

Terrakion rising to A+

Yes. The rocks lead is fantastic. Keldeo outclasses somewhat as a band/specs user, but Terrakion is better as a set up sweeper because swords dance > calm mind and he can actually use those justified boosts.

Staraptor rising to B

Yes.

Lucario rising to B+

I'm neutral on this. I haven't seen Lucario used very well (or very poorly for that matter).

Conkeldurr falling to B-

No. Conkeldurr is still very annoying for most teams if he gets in safely. His best buddy Rotom-W isn't as popular anymore, but burns are still everywhere in general and it's easy for him to get a Guts boost.

Jirachi getting ranked to C- / C

Yes. I'd start him off with C. He's a good rocks setter and the scarf set with healing wish from last gen is still usable.

Slowbro rising to A-

Yes. Slowbro is awesome, why isn't he already A?

Cresselia rising to C+

No. Mew outclasses Cress.
 
Not really. Cresselia has significantly more bulk and access to Lunar Dance, which are huge differences if you ask me.
The extra bulk doesn't mean much when you can't do anything in return. Mew gets knock off and WoW to make him a pain in the ass for everything in the game not named mega CharX/Y or Houndoom.

The best use Cress has is to set screens and use lunar dance... which is not that great.
 

Karxrida

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Physically defensive Cress can counter Zard X and checks Zard Y if she has T-Wave. Can't post the calcs atm but it's something to note.
 

Jukain

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jirachi is something i've been testing in the non-maw meta, particularly variants of the shuca/ebelt set and the scarf set from last gen. it's pretty fucking good. one of the few remaining lati checks for offense, decent switch into gard (though watch out for wisp which is annoying af), and really customizable with a lot of utility.

shuca/ebelt sets have excellent coverage. you can rock; have iron head for stab/flinch/fairies; icy wind for grounds espec w. that shuca lure plus thund and dragons; and then a filler like gk/energy ball for different bulky waters/grounds or hp ground for tran or hp fire for ferro/skarm or tbolt for skarm/gyara/assorted others.

scarf set is cool as a fast latis check, and you can cripple a wall with trick or hw to something, and you have u-turn utility + iron head coverage/flinches.

defensive set looks nice to pass wishes, also it can rock and like hw for more offensive teams, plus be a cunt with paraflinch :]. haven't rly tried it tho. finally theres the option for a mexican sub paraflinch set,,,, (not advocating).

overall a pretty useful mon that can check different things and be customized to provide enormous utility and luring capability for whatever its teammates need. i'd say at least throw it in c, rachi is cool.

---

terrak is godly in this metagame. nothing wants to take a hit at all. sr, subsd salac, and subsd lo have been my favorite sets. lo subsd gets a kill every time it comes in. the opponent just basically has to make sacs unless they have a landt which only has one switch-in anyways. with taunt and sash terrak is an incredibly reliable srer, still hits hard as all hell anyways. aegi's ban has let it shine and become top-tier. a+ is good imo.

i think moving bro up is reasonable. it's good, handling medi and terrak which have increased popularity among all the stuff it did before (gyara, mttar, zard x, mamo, drill, av azu [though not as your sole response] all that). basically, it can go toe-to-toe with a lot of highly relevant threats and spread status espec with scald burns, while easily staying healthy with slack off + regen. that's enough to warrant a-.

i've underrated raptor, but it's actually pretty good. nothing appreciates a hit besides a select few things (skarm, zong, rachi). i've been liking final gambit to lure and cripple the fuck out of skarm in a bird spam core with pinsir or with some other sweeper walled by skarm (think gyara). anyways incredible nuke, fits nice with voltturn, stacks well with certain things to pressure and overwhelm their checks/counters. it also pairs well with zone which is only getting better in this meta. b is fair.

conk is fine. it can still harass a lot of offensive teams which don't really have good switch-ins besides azu and venu. azu dislikes knock and even just taking the almost 25ish it has to lose to take a hit. av can check things and beat a lot 1v1 while not being hard to keep healthy with drain punch. b is fine.

luc is good where it is. i dunno, i just don't think it's improved that much w. aegi gone. yea it can be kinda hard to deal but is it really as good or consistently useful as suicune, for example? in a lot of matchups it finds it hard to set up, and is limited by fairies and really anything faster that can take an espeed. i think luc is cool, but it's not worthy of moving up.

neutral on doom and cress.
 
Physically defensive Cress can counter Zard X and checks Zard Y if she has T-Wave. Can't post the calcs atm but it's something to note.
It's not really a counter if you just paralyze them while taking massive damage.

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 183-216 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Any Zard with roost will survive longer than Cress does.
 

Valmanway

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The extra bulk doesn't mean much when you can't do anything in return. Mew gets knock off and WoW to make him a pain in the ass for everything in the game not named mega CharX/Y or Houndoom.

The best use Cress has is to set screens and use lunar dance... which is not that great.
Bear in mind that Cresselia is one of the few counters to the likes of Landorus, Keldeo, Mega Charizard Y, and Talonflame; threats that teams need an answer or two for. I'll admit that Mew can take them on with specific EV spreads, but Cresselia can take them all on simultaneously with just the Specially Defensive set. Cresselia is also one of the most reliable TR setters in OU, which is a set that Mew doesn't really want to run. So to say that Mew outclasses Cresselia doesn't seem like a correct statement to me.
 
Bear in mind that Cresselia is one of the few counters to the likes of Landorus, Keldeo, Mega Charizard Y, and Talonflame; threats that teams need an answer or two for. I'll admit that Mew can take them on with specific EV spreads, but Cresselia can take them all on simultaneously with just the Specially Defensive set. Cresselia is also one of the most reliable TR setters in OU, which is a set that Mew doesn't really want to run. So to say that Mew outclasses Cresselia doesn't seem like a correct statement to me.
TR and screens are play styles I'm not considering because they're so uncommon. I'm not saying leave Cress unranked, because those are play styles that are seen every once in a while and Cress absolutely fits those 2 roles better than Mew. But for the 99% of teams that don't use those strategies, Mew outclasses Cress.

I would also argue that specially defensive Mew is a better counter to Landorus and Keldeo. For Keldeo, Mew can use Keldeo's scald burns against him with synchronize to significantly shorten his life span, as well as knock off Keld's specs to remove his bite. Cress is in danger of being 2hko'd by Keldeo's hydro pump after a scald burn and doesn't do anything in return. Mew also counters Lando just as well as Cress and can knock off Lando's life orb to make him much easier to handle.

Choice Band Talonflame and CharY are generally not huge threats to stall (which is the only archetype you would be using Cress on), so I don't see the need to add yet another check for those mons.
 
I am not sure if I am missing something, but why is Diggersby ranked A-? While I understand the sashed set has some solid utility and that back in the Aegislash meta that it worked as a shaky check, to me it seems to have this ranked ABOVE rain offense (a solid playstyle in the metagame) is overvaluing it. There are better sweepers and sash'd priority mons in the meta than Diggersby (Breloom & Mamoswine come to mind) and with the rise of Lando-T as well as a meta full of priority, I just dont think Diggersby is an A ranked mon. Imo should be moved to B+.
 
effyouzion C+ in general is designed for Pokemon that provide really good niches but many of the times are indeed, outclassed. I think Cresselia manages to perform all the requirements needed for C+, as Cresselia is actually quite good of a Pokemon, but as you have said, many of the times you would rather use Mew.
The other C+ mons include Shuckle and Smeargle, who fit rare play styles as well, but still fit on way more teams than Cress.

I also said mega Houndoom should be C+ and mega Houndoom is 10x more usable than Cress... but that might just be because Houndoom needs to be B- or B, so I won't compare the 2.
 

Jukain

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I am not sure if I am missing something, but why is Diggersby ranked A-? While I understand the sashed set has some solid utility and that back in the Aegislash meta that it worked as a shaky check, to me it seems to have this ranked ABOVE rain offense (a solid playstyle in the metagame) is overvaluing it. There are better sweepers and sash'd priority mons in the meta than Diggersby (Breloom & Mamoswine come to mind) and with the rise of Lando-T as well as a meta full of priority, I just dont think Diggersby is an A ranked mon. Imo should be moved to B+.
diggersby is still incredible. i'm kinda biased because it's been one of my favorite ou mons this gen, but the sash set is still incredible. it will usually get at least one or two kills per match, and can punch enormous holes in opposing teams. nothing besides gengar and skarmory likes to take hits from it, and even then sd lo diggersby does so much to skarm. it's a solid hole puncher and puts in work basically every match, including being a nice offensive check to thundurus-i. diggersby is good, no hate.
 

Jacks0n

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-> A It was covered that mega gardevoir is actually a better wall breaker than mega medicham because it actually has really good special bulk as well as well as incredible power. It has resistances and immunities it can work with, giving it switch ins to the likes of Lati's ect. The fact that it can switch in and actually tank some hits unlike mega cham witch cant switch in even on resisted hits means mega voir is better, and defenitely deserving of A.
 
diggersby is still incredible. i'm kinda biased because it's been one of my favorite ou mons this gen, but the sash set is still incredible. it will usually get at least one or two kills per match, and can punch enormous holes in opposing teams. nothing besides gengar and skarmory likes to take hits from it, and even then sd lo diggersby does so much to skarm. it's a solid hole puncher and puts in work basically every match, including being a nice offensive check to thundurus-i. diggersby is good, no hate.
I never said Diggersby was bad, it is quite a good mon, just not A- rank imo. Gengar gives this thing the middle finger and tons of Gengar these days run Will-o-Wisp which Diggersby hates. Rocky Helmet Skarmory with Counter, a popular set, ruins sash SD diggersy by breaking the sash when it attacks and OHKO'ing it in return. Besides, for Diggersby to be an adequate check to Thundy-I, it NEEDS to preserve its sash, not an easy feat imo. Diggersby is good no doubt, but not what I would call an "A Ranked Pokemon" is all.

B Rank: "Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the OU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential." <-- That's Diggersby to a T.
 

Karxrida

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It's not really a counter if you just paralyze them while taking massive damage.

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 183-216 (41.2 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Any Zard with roost will survive longer than Cress does.
Bulky Zard X doesn't run max attack, and Cress is able to paralyze it without dying which is pretty cool. Psychic also does about 25% (give or take) to X so Cress can actually kill it herself.
 
Bulky Zard X doesn't run max attack, and Cress is able to paralyze it without dying which is pretty cool. Psychic also does about 25% (give or take) to X so Cress can actually kill it herself.
You're really stretching the term "counter" here. That 25% only can kill versions without roost since dragon claw deals more damage than Cress's psychic and roost has twice as much PP as moonlight. That's a check, and a shaky one at that.
 

Karxrida

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You're really stretching the term "counter" here. That 25% only can kill versions without roost since dragon claw deals more damage than Cress's psychic and roost has twice as much PP as moonlight. That's a check, and a shaky one at that.
The point is you can switch in, cripple it, and even beat it 1v1 since you're faster and heal before Zard does (and not all of them run Roost). You can even Lunar Dance something in like Garchomp and counter-sweep.
 
I'm nominating Tyranitar back to A+. Dropping Tyranitar to A was a mistake, alexwolf how the hell is it not a good SR setter? it can beat the common deffogers like Skarmory, Mandibuzz and the Lati twins with Stone Ege, Fire Blast and Crunch/Pursuit. Not only that but it has an amazing ability in Sandstream turning Excadrill into a huge threat and it also breaks sashes and does damage every turn to Pokemon that are not immune to sand damage. It provides nice resistances like flying and fire and it's Special Defense lets it even tank things like Greninja's LO Hydro Pump. It also has Pursuit to weaken stuff or killing stuff switching out. Tyranitar is so versatile, it has many effective sets ranging from Scarf, Band, Assault Vest, Stealth Rock setter and has the stats and movepool to threaten things. There's a reason Tyranitar is used so much because it's just that good. I'd even argue for S-rank because it's so easy to fit on a team and brings a lot to the table.
 
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