Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[Gloating]

Nominating Mega Medicham to A+ rank I'd say S-rank but I'm not too sure about that yet but yeah not much can wall this and it's the reason things like Mew, Cresselia and Slowbro are seeing more usage. Notice how they are all weak to Pursuit so it can easily be paired with a Pursuit trapper like Bisharp or Tyranitar so only Mew and Sableye are good at taking it on. Offensive teams and stall both struggle with Mega Medicham and it causes a lot of switches giving it free opportunities to set up a sub. Like for example you're facing an offensive team and since nothing on their team can wall it they have to play around with switches and they switch to Dragonite on the predicted High Jump Kick then hopefully finish it off with E-Speed you can just use Substitute to kill it with Ice Punch and avoid E-Speed damage.

Nominating Gliscor for A+, SpDef Gliscor is amazing I use 252/252 SpD for maximum bulk and it can even stay in on standard Rotom-W, hit it with a Toxic and stall out it's Hydro Pumps with Roost. It can also stall out Slowbro's Ice Beam, stay in on LO Latios Draco Meteor and stall it out with Roost or Toxic it, it also walls threats like Tyranitar even Ice Beam variants, Alomomola, Quagsire, Chansey. It can also stall out Suicune with Taunt, Toxic and Roost. Other things it walls are the extremely common Landorus-T, Heatran, Terrakion, Mandibuzz, Landorus-I and more. Did I mention it's also an amazing stall breaker? It doesn't give a shit about status or Knock Off if Toxic Orb has already been activated. Taunt, Toxic + Roost is a nightmare for stall to face.

 

[AM]

Entei B- is still really bugging me, yeah you can burn things with sacred fire, but this thing is just terrible imo lol. Good stats, weird movepool, uni-typing is pretty bad, and i don't see any reason to play it when heatran has SR / a better typing and Victini is a better defensive mon. Even Darmanitan is a better all-around-hits-like-a-truck-monofire-type

Kind of agree or don't really mind about everything else you said except for this. Entei is far from terrible. It's not just Sacred Fire that is a selling point, it's Extremespeed that gives it the advantage against offense and things that would normally beat it from speed. Heatran and Entei play completely differently outside of being Fire types and the Scarf Heatran set, so not really sure of the comparison between the two. The rocks weakness is something but it's so minor when the teams that Entei resides on provide support to handle issues such as this.

Also going to nominate Entei to move up to B while I'm at. I find it silly that it's amongst things like Chesnaught when it's way more effective than what people are making it out to be. Granted it isn't some crazy great mon but B- is too low for it. A solid B makes much more sense.

I'm on the fence for M-Cham moving up. On one hand I've been demolishing teams left and right with it being paired about with other offensive threats to compliment it. This is even without a pursuit user which is kind of nuts as well. On the other hand it has a kind of shitty match up against forms of offense that annoys me a bit. I guess the only solid reason I could see M-Cham moving up is that it's pretty easy to fit on a team and only needs a couple of things out of the way and minimal support to do its job more effectively than it already does.

Greninja can stay in A+. The reasons have already been stated so won't bother repeating the same old.

Azelf can rise for the fact that its lead sets give HO the edge it needs or in the case of the screens set with Taunt + Stealth Rock, allows offensive and balanced threats to consistently do their job more efficiently. Taunt helps stall break better as well and allows HO to maintain its hazards in a similar way to Deo-D without access to recover and bulk, which is compensated by screens anyways. Azelf can move up to B-.

Going to agree with Gliscor moving up to A+. It's kind of stupid how effective a well played Gliscor can be and access to a variety of options makes it even that much better. Gliscor can move up to A+.

 

[Rosen]

Mega Cham is fine in A, it's stupidly strong yet pitifully frail, has meh speed tier with no good boosting moves, and the only usable priority move it has is non-STAB Bullet Punch, which is piss weak and does pathetic damage to all neutral hits. It's incredibly difficult to wall, but also extremely easy to kill. Mega Medicham should go no higher.

 

[Prinz]

Im fine with Hawlucha rising to C+. It needs lot of support because of priority moves but with Aegislash not anymore in the OU tier it can actually sweep some teams with the right support. TBH it has few usable moves too and it's quite predictable but its way better than things like Exploud and Seismitoad which are C as well, so it definitely deserves to go up to C+

Im also fine about Starmie going up to B+, with the ban of Aegislash it can actually acts like a good Rapid Spin mon and Analytic is a good trait to hit hard on opponent's switch, and Starmie forces lot of switches thanks to its good coverage. if you need a Rapid Spin as a support for things like Talon, Pinsir etc, Starmie can act rly well. In my eyes it isnt a worse Greninja because of Rapid Spin which is a rly good support move. Now it can also find some place in stall teams as well, it checks things like Keldeo and Heatran + providing Rapid Spin support which is huge. Also I found out that Reflect Type is incredibily underrated nowadays, being able to avoid Tyranitar's Pursuit (Superpower isnt much used on TTar anymore since moves like Fire Blast, Ice Beam, EQ and Stone Edge are often prefered so it can't OHKO you the turn later and you can process to try to scald burn something) and it beats mons like Ferrothorn and Scizor as well. Definitely it deserves to be B+, pokèmons like regular Scizor arent rly better than it in the current metagame so Starmie fits perfectly the B+ rank

Posting my thoughts about the other mons later I guess

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Yeah Medi is not A+, let alone S. As opposed to Hera and Garde, it has more reliable counters in bulky Psychics and Sableye (which, like Medi, are much better with Aegis gone,) HJK gets screwed by Protect and is risky to use with the presence of any ghost on the opposing team (not to mention just flat out RNG) and Drain Punch is just not powerful enough (it can still wall break with coverage, e.g. Thunder Punch for Skarmory [and Slowbro] but HJK really punishes offensive pokemon trying to switch in on a resist cause it's still going to do like 80% or something silly to 0/0 pokes. Like I remember a WCoP replay where Medi just flat out OHKOed a healthy Latios switch in with resisted HJK, though it was a crit, and OHKOed Deo-S and Thundurus with non-crit resisted HJK.)

Garde on the other hand has shaky counters in Mega Scizor, Jirachi (still pretty niche but it might get better as time goes on,) and I guess Bronzong (who is super niche) and that's basically it, and it can still dick all of them with Wisp and they're all susceptible to getting trapped by Zone if they don't have U-Turn (same with Ferrothorn, so Garde can just run HP Ground instead of Focus Blast and then all of its moves are 100% acc.) Hyper Voice is also super spammable cause it's 100% accurate and doesn't have any detrimental effects, like lowering stats. It also has really nice 68/135 special bulk which allows it to comfortably tank at least one hit from Greninja, Keldeo, Thundurus, etc. without any investment. Trace is also clutch.

Mega Heracorss has even less good switch ins. Like Aerial Ace Gliscor and that's it? Nothing else has recovery unless you want to count Rest. And it's bulky as sin, it has a good chance to survive LO Latias Psyshock without any investment. 80/115/105 bulk, for comparison, is actually quite close to Mandi's 110/105/95 bulk (you're not investing in it but still.) It's slow tho.

So at the very least I would not put Medi above the other two. And for future reference I would not support bumping any of them a third time, I feel they're being a little hyped up. Yeah they're much better with Aegis gone, yeah they hit like a truck made out of melted-down bombs but their match-up against offensive teams is not that great, at least compared to the DDancers and Venu and while they tear apart defensive teams, it's not like it's particularly hard to account for them.

 

[0besity]

I'm going to nominate Excadrill for A. I don't believe it should be ranked higher than some of the A ranked Pokemon, such as the Mega Wallbreakers, Tyranitar, Mega Venusaur and Mamoswine to name a few. It now faces competition for its role as a spinner with the likes of Starmie; a pokemon with superior coverage against both SR setters and Defoggers, whilst also being able to utilize a defensive set. Excadrill's main advantages are its abilites, one allows Excadrill to beat some of its counters and prevent Gengar from spinblocking, whilst the other allows it to sweep late game with the aid of sand support. I'm not denying that Excadrill greatly assists teams, I believe its role either requires some support, or faces competition with other Pokemon. I think Excadrill should reside in the same rank as Pokemon like Bisharp, who has some unique roles, but other Pokemon compete for the spot with it. (Thundurus abuses Defog whilst Tyranitar Pursuit-Traps whilst having superior bulk)

 

[Prinz]

I don't agree about Excadrill going down in A rank. It needs just the support of sandstorm (and remember that sand offense teams are one of the best playstyles of xy ou) to be one of the best revenge-kill available being able to outspeed the whole metagame when sandstorm is up. Also HO rly struggles when they meet an Excadrill because of the speed it has under sand and because of its coverage moves. EQ + Iron Head + Rock Slide is pretty good, and HO teams have usually to make pillaring when they face it, in order that sandstorm ends but its not easy because the Excadrill user can predict, and if Stealth Rock are up, he won't even need it to do ton of damages on the opponent's team. Plus, don't forget that Excadrill has Sword Dance as well, so it isnt pointless against Stall teams as well if the team where it's as already a Defog user and so it can use Sword Dance in place of Rapid Spin. I would say that Excadrill is extremely good against HO teams and quite good against balanced and stall teams if its carring the right move. It has also a very good support move in Rapid Spin, and threats like Talonflame, Dragonite and Pinsir really appreciate its job at doing that. Even if Starmie isnt a bad Rapid Spin user, I still believe that Excadrill remains the best Rapid Spin user in the tier, being faster in sand, being much more threating and having some useful resistances (given to the steel-type it has) that Starmie dreams to have. I wouldnt compare Bisharp to Excadrill as well, they have different mons for sure, and while Bisharp relies on its priority move to be threatening (its otherwise too slow to sweep teams or to do big damages), Excadrill just needs sandstorm. In summary I think that Excadrill should remain in A+ rank, its a very good pokèmon overall that just needs sand to be up (tyranitar isnt a bad pokèmon either way, so it isnt a big deal), to threating lot of teams, while providing support to the team where it belongs, for these reasons I believe that Excadrill deserves the place where it already is.

 

[dadoux]

TtarExca offense are really scary, Excadrill is a great spinner (the best actually) / revenge killer, being able to revenge kill diggersby / thundurus / talonflame / pinsir while being hard to switch into. I don't see why it should be ranked down.

 

[0besity]

TtarExca offense are really scary, Excadrill is a great spinner (the best actually) / revenge killer, being able to revenge kill diggersby / thundurus / talonflame / pinsir while being hard to switch into. I don't see why it should be ranked down.

Makes sense. My only other argument is that Mew is also an effective hazard remover down in A with almost unmatched stallbreaking potential. Although, I suppose Excadrill's ability to scare hyper-offense is more relevant than Mew's stallbreaking abilities, especially since the metagame is shifting towards offense.

 

[dajachiz]

I am all for Starmie rising to B+. Aegislash leaving was the trick. The support it provides alongside stellar coverage just makes it a crazy mom to put onto a team.

In terms of positives, Starmie out speeds almost all of the in boosted meta, besides Ninja, Tflame, and mega mane, aero, and zam. Rapid Spin gives it a huge niche over greninja, and is also a huge plus for teams that want to lose the pressure of hazards, without getting rid of their own, as they would with Defog. Analytic and Natural Cure are both great abilities for an offensive Pokemon. Analytic makes it a force to be reckoned with, and with great coverage, and high speed forcing out much of the metagame, it works extremely well. Natural Cure, while still good, is often not used, in favor of the extra power, but could still be used to wash away Prankster T-Wave from Thundy, or a random Lava Plume or Scald burn. It threatens lots of the stuff Greninja already does, but that Rapid Spin support is so good right now, and doesn't need a scarf or sand support like Exca to get the spin off most of the time.

Negatively though, it's coverage only takes it so far. Base 100 is good, but not great when you are working off of coverage, usually meaning you are gonna run a Life Orb, which makes Starmie really worn down fast. It also has a mild case of 4MSS. It loves Psyshock for MegaVenu, and Chansey, but it also wants thunderbolt for Gyara and non AV'd Azumarills.

Bottom line is though, that Starmie kicks some butt as a Rapid Spinner, and should definitely be B+.

Hiya!!!

 

[0besity]

honestly conkeldurr should be at least B.

Why?

 

[INDOVINDO]

Hes a check to bisharp and deals with many other threats such as tyranitar and terrakion not only that he has an amazing ability to switch in the sub gengar same with rotom then ohko them. although lacking the sp def he pair him up with an assault vest making him take the sp attacks. He does many counters he can be hit with a psyshock or psychic then retaliate back with nice and powerful knock off

 

[Prinz]

Also my thoughts on the other mons that alexwolf mentioned:

Victini: Its a rly cool mon that has some interesting niches as well. it has lot of viable options, scarf set, band one, special attacker ones and it has lot of cool moves as well, some that can bypass some of its check as well (like glaciate for landorus-t and gliscor). it has also an all around base statistics of 100 which is nice, providing a nice bulk alongside a good statistics of attack as well. also its bulky set with will-o-wisp its something that deserves a mention, being able to be a good move in some stall teams since it can check mawile with the wisp (although it rly needs wisp support). in summary I believe that it's an interesting pokèmon overall, with lot of nice options as well. definitely worthy for B+ rank

Suicune: It has basically one viable set (the Calm Mind / Rest / Sleep Talk / Scald one) so its predictable as fuck, and while it can be somewhat threating for stall teams, it can't do much against HO because of Thundurus and the other hard hitters. Also, now that Medicham, Gardevoir and Heracross are also buffed by the ban of Aegislash, stall teams will have their bad days I guess so Suicune loses an huge niche. Because of these reasons, I think that B+ rank is already fine for it.

Azelf: With the ban of the Deos, it actually has some reasons to be used in the OU tier as Stealth Rock and screens setter. Also, it has some good coverage moves in Fire Blast and Knock Off and cool support options like Taunt and Explosion. Its not a super mon, but its way better than things like Blastoise Mega, Smeargle and Omastar that are C+ as well, so I think it needs to move to B-

Magnezone: As i already said some pages ago, I think it deserves the B+ rank. Its a cool support move for things like Pinsir, Diggersby and Azumarill and for some fairy-type mons like Clefable too, which doesnt rly like Steel types. Its Choice Scarf set is also an okay revenge-killer for threats like Pinsir, Adamant Talon and Mega Gardevoir.

 

[FlareBlitz3000]

Hes a check to bisharp and deals with many other threats such as tyranitar and terrakion not only that he has an amazing ability to switch in the sub gengar same with rotom then ohko them. although lacking the sp def he pair him up with an assault vest making him take the sp attacks. He does many counters he can be hit with a psyshock or psychic then retaliate back with nice and powerful knock off

Conkeldurr's cons outweigh its pros. Sure it can take hits from both sides with an Assault Vest coupled with 105/95/55 bulk but it is setup fodder for Pokèmon such as Mega Pinsir, Mega Heracross, Clefable, Mega Charizard X, etc. 140 attack looks stronger on paper than in practice. I think it's fine where it is at C+

 

[trc]

i can easily see starmie rising to b+, it's just a fantastic option at the moment for an offensive spinner which i really underrated after the aegislash ban. it hits damn hard with specs analytic smashing every ghost-type and has nice coverage and recover. bulky reflect type sets are where it's at though. with recover, natural cure, scald, and of course reflect type, you can actually trouble quite a bit of teams. reflect type has so many applications, resisting pursuit from bisharp, being immune to ferrothorn's leech seed, avoiding amoonguss's and breloom's spore, beating mega charizard y 1v1, and it's even bulky enough to wall some things on its own like keldeo and non-hp grass greninja. pair this with ferrothorn and you're golden.

victini is amazing in this meta and i'd also like to see it moved up to b+. it walls two of the most prominent mega pokemon (mega gardevoir and mega medicham), while outspeeding and ohkoing the third (mega heracross). it can do a ton of things really well but something so great for a defensive pokemon is that it has an obnoxiously powerful v-create that doesn't like being switched into at all. it has a ton of options to take on many things and i am intrigued by that sub power up punch set that was mentioned above.

magnezone is an amazing pokemon in the meta as well, yet another solid b+ worthy candidate. not only does it support the amazing mega pokemon at the moment by trapping almost the only obstacle but it also hits like a truck with base 125 spa and specs or even with scarf which revenges pinsir and takes shit all from its prio. it revenges so much shit too, most waters in the tier like azu, keld, gets free momentum from slowbro, suicune, takes on thund.

hawlucha can move up imo since it's almost impossible to outspeed after unburder, unlike tailwind boosts lasts until it's switched out, with sub it can even beat bb talon and other prio users that should beat it, has great coverage in its stabs which includes a potentially sd boosted stab hjk and a base 110 power acro, it also has a ton of different items that it can use but the main set i see is subsd.

i don't have much opinion on suicune, it's a good finisher for stall that can take on other stalls but its role has been diminished with the presence of other amazingly powerful stallbreakers, even if they don't entirely fit on stalls themselves. crocune can trouble teams, im not saying it can't, it just doesn't seem that much different in the meta than it was before to warrant a raise.

azelf is pretty nice actually, it's your standard sr lead / dual screens lead / rain lead that you slap on these teams and it doesn't really do much in the meta specifically but that is only because it is intended to die. i think a raise to b- is appropriate.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

what's the verdict on staraptor?

anyways, staraptor needs to move up, as does entei. they simply don't belong in the same rank as pokemon like sableye and mega ampharos. they are both hard as shit to switch into, both have great offensive STABs, just enough coverage, and require some of the same support. if we look at B rank, we have alakazam and kingdra, who require a similar amount of support, have good offensive STABs(in the case of kingdra) great coverage(in the case of zam) and are hard to switch into.

 

[Prinz]

Im honestly not sure about where staraptor and entei should stay, they are both mons that have some niches but they are useful just in certain situations. also, they have some general problems that don't allow them to be good mons in ou. with the aegislash ban staraptor is better but its sr weak and it needs a choice item to be useful and because of that many mons can setup on it. entei has also the sr problem and it has a rly poor moverpool. TBH I think that Kingdra and M Alakazam are better than both of them, Kingdra doesnt rly need much support, it just needs Politoed, while M Alakazam while it needs some support it has better statistics overall, better moverpool and a better ability in Trace. I would see what the other people think about that, but imo they should both remain in B- rank.

 

[Zebstrika]

I saw a couple posts above that say Suicune is less viable because there are wall breakers making stall less viable...I actually believe it is the other way around. Suicune gives these teams offensive presence, which is the only practical way to deal with all the wall breakers, outside of the like 3 hard counters they each have (and then you'll have other problems...) And Suicune fits right in on a stall team, serving as a generic (but effective) bulky water before it sweeps.

I don't know many other offensive win cons on stall to give it competition. There's Clefable, maybe the Zards, maybe Mega Scizor and then...?

It's an effective sweeper, to the point where you can easily build an otherwise good team that Suicune can demolish. I've been on both ends of that many times. How many other pokemon in the B ranks can force so many teams to consciously prepare for them? Most of the others with that trait have significant support/opportunity costs (ex. weather reliance) to hold them in B ranks which Suicune doesn't have.

I made a more full post on my thoughts about Suicune couple of days ago here , in case I need to bring it up again since the rank update.

 

[Celticpride]

I support Starmie moving to B+ (or even A-). While slightly weaker and slower then Greninja, who seems to outclass it, Starmie has the all valuable Rapid Spin. Spinning is going to make a huge comeback with Aegi gone, and is more valuable then Defogging because it preserves your own hazards. Scald/Hydro Pump and Ice Beam is good two move coverage, with the third move being Thunderbolt or Psyshock based on what you want to get past more. Base 115 speed also allows it to handle a lot of threats against offensive teams. Analytic can f*** a bunch of things on the switch, or you could use Natural Cure if you need a status absorber and can't fit one anywhere else. Overall, it kills two birds with one stone by giving you hazards control that can contribute offensively.

I also support Staraptor moving up to B rank. Aegi held down his otherwise perfect three move coverage (Normal, Flying, Fighting) and Staraptor couldn't even run a suboptimal move to get by him. Reckless boosts both his STABs further, and Intimidate is always helpful. Raptor also get U-Turn, allowing him to create momentum. He can run a Band for absurd power, or a Scarf, which pairs well with his decent speed tier. Normally I am not a huge fan of things that rely on Choice Items, but things with access to U-Turn and Volt Switch seem less restricted by those items.

 

[BurningFury101]

Supporting Starmie and Victini moving up to B+. Starmie is probably the one of best spinners as of now, and is my favourite spinner. Water/Psychic STABs as of now aren't exactly the best, but top it off with a coverage move and Starmie is a monster. Specially offensively it's decent at best, however it tends to have 2-3 slots open for any offensive move from Scald, Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, Psyshock, and Ice Beam, so you can choose coverage moves depending on what your team wants most. Probably it's biggest merit (imo) is it's fantastic speed tier of 115, beating Gengar, Lati@s, Thundurus, Garchomp, thanks to that speed it can catch usually catch a KO or get a spin off. Tbh the biggest problem is that Starmie faces a problem of being a good Pokemon in general. Other than being a spinner you have no reason to use it over Greninja (Remember those rumours about RP Ninja?). Not sure what else you could do with it, but it's probably outclassed by other mons in those categories too. But because hazards are so annoying and really hurt a team, it being a spinner merits a B+.

As for Victini, honestly the V is more for Versatility than anything else. Victini has way too many sets, hell, if you read the RMT often you might have seen that someone made a stall team with Victini. Choice Band V-Create obliterates almost anything that doesn't resist it. Hell fully defensive Gliscor takes ~75% from it. Lure Victini can take apart a chunk of health from anything or bait in something like Mega Venusaur just to get slapped in the face by a Zen Headbutt. Choice Scarf Victini proves to be quite a viable cleaner, and although I never used this set in particular, Stall-Tini is apparently pretty good too. Oh yeah, 100 base stats all around aren't too shabby at all, either. Especially for a mon with that many sets. Overall, Victini is awesome, and I find that putting it alongside Pokemon like Alolololomola is the right choice.

 

[Nabilla Benattia]

I'd like to nominate raikou to move up to B+ or A- because of it's ability to beat many of the common threats in the tier, and it's great matchup against most of the common play styles in the tier. Raikou can chose to wear an assault vest or some glasses and use it's items to rip the tier to pieces. Electric types do extremely well in this meta, beating the two water types that are on almost every team, azumaril and keldeo, and also destroys almost every flying type, doing so with great speed, a move pool perfext for what it wants to do, and surprising special bulk with an assault best. The thing just generates momentum, and does so swhile checking Landorus and many other dangerous ground types with a fast hidden power. It's usefulness has already been discussed, and if like to see t move up.

 

[Srn]

I'd like to nominate raikou to move up to B+ or A- because of it's ability to beat many of the common threats in the tier, and it's great matchup against most of the common play styles in the tier. Raikou can chose to wear an assault vest or some glasses and use it's items to rip the tier to pieces. Electric types do extremely well in this meta, beating the two water types that are on almost every team, azumaril and keldeo, and also destroys almost every flying type, doing so with great speed, a move pool perfext for what it wants to do, and surprising special bulk with an assault best. The thing just generates momentum, and does so swhile checking Landorus and many other dangerous ground types with a fast hidden power. It's usefulness has already been discussed, and if like to see t move up.

As much of a fan of CM raikou that I used to be, I really can't support it nowadays. Sand rush exca is literally fucking everywhere and pal if you can exaggerate that azu and keldeo are on every team then I can sure as hell tell you that you will find exca on 80% of any offensive team you face on the ladder these days, paired with a ttar of course. Not to mention that AV azu actually beats AV raikou 1v1, so doesn't beat it as well as you say. (play rough+jet kills 100% of the time, tbolt does 63.8% max)

As far as generating momentum goes, its not too bad at that, but its momentum is stopped cold n clean by urs truly exca drill every damn time; even some less common grounds like hippo can easily stop it and nobody likes playing the guessing game between hp ice and volt switch when there's that pesky lando-t on the opposing side. It doesn't threaten that much out cuz its so weak (115 base sp. att isn't that impressive, especially when your strongest attack is 90 base power). And as if sand rush exca wasn't the least of it problems, you still have to deal with the ever so common scarf lando-t and the less common scarf chomp and diggersby ready to revenge you if you're trying to clean up or something.

I might've supported a raise to B+ at best back when double genies was super common because raikou just blows through that, but now that its a lot less common and that sand rush exca has taken a huge rise, I really feel like the meta has been unkind to raikou and it should just stay in B.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

so i would like my man megazam to go up to B+. it completely destroys ability based playstyles/mons(think sand offense, regen spam stall, greninja, landorus, gliscor) and it has good coverage options. pick from psychic, psyshock, focus blast, shadow ball, hp fire, and then a support move like taunt, encore, or a free turn generator, such as sub or protect, or maybe even pick up some even more sweeping potential with cm. you never know what it'll have, and thats one of the reasons it is so deadly. it has a great matchup against both offense and stall, and everything in between. all this thing needs to do is find itself a free turn(or make one itself w/ protect/sub)and its ready to fuck shit up.

 

[BlowingBubbles]

I've been using offensive Starmie after the Aegislash ban and I think it definitely deserves a B. Not sure about a B+ though, as Ferrothorn is still quite common. Offensive Starmie doesn't really have a way to get past it. It takes a lot of damage after every spin and Ferro can just set it back up. Not sure if running a reflect type defensive set is worth it for that one pokemon.

Edit: Also, it doesn't help that Starmie needs to survive both Iron Barbs and Life Orb recoil to get a spin off.

 

[Sucker Lunch]

I'm on my phone so I can't post what I want to. But what's the opinion on pinsir? Is he still deserving of A+ rank?