Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Alfalfa]

I support keeping Stoutland unranked. It is a waste of a team slot, and using it with Excadrill just wastes your sand turns.

While we are at it, can we unrank Jellicent, if we are going to unrank Blissey and keep Soutland unrnaked? It only really checks Keldeo, and fails at everything else. It has to rely on Starmie's moveset if it wants to beat it, meaning it is not even a reliable check. I like Jellicent, but all it does is hard wall Keldeo but nothing else. Immunity to Scald is nice, but Jellicent is too niche to even warrant a ranking. Just use all of the other Keldeo checks that are viable. If you are worried about burns, then pack a Cleric, because Cleric support can be fit onto the teams that Jellicent would normally fit on. Therefore, I nominate Jellicent for unranked.

 

[Alfalfa]

I agree with AM about the shitty discussion lets realize it, Stoutland will not be ranked.

also lets face it: Blissey will stay D it have been there for ages, and that won't change. lets spark discussion on other pokemon, i nominate landorus-I for A+ *grabs popcorn* <-- that was a joke, get over it.

If enough people nominate to unrank Blissey, then chances are, alexwolf will probably unrank it.

EDIT: I accidentally double posted. Sorry about that.

 

[AM]

(as long as you aren't hinting at removing the d rank) i agree with you. It should be reserved for mons that have a tiny niche and are sometimes worth using (see: tentacruel, granbull, whimsicott), but aren't hugely influential or unique. I'm not gonna comment on Blissey or Stoutland any more, but I will say they are kinda swaying us from talking about what we should be. Discussion should be open to every mon, but mons in the higher ranks need more attention that mons in D.

In addition to my Ferro/Zone/Zor/MZor arguments, I'd like to bring back my Toge post. It kinda got lost awhile ago, and I don't remember anyone other than vertex mentioning it (I think he said it could/should move up)

Argument

I know this might will be totally hated on, but I think Togekiss should rise to B-. It's commonly thought of a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none Pokemon, but so is Garchomp, and that's A. Togekiss and Garchomp both share a) an incapability of mastering anything and b) extreme versatility. I'll stop comparing Kiss to Chomp here, because I'm arguing for B-, not A. Basically, while Togekiss has two huge issues (the SR weakness and the Electric-weakness) and one smaller one (competition with fable), it's able to secure some interesting niches. My favorite set of Toge's is the NastyPass set. The set works because of Togekiss's massive bulk, and while its typing isn't the best, it still provides excellent synergy with Electric-types. Thundurus-I already has nasty plot and is immune to ground, so toge is a bit useless for it. However, the other three big offensive electrics (Mega Ampharos, Mega Manectric, and Raikou), all greatly appreciate the sweeping ability and the ground immunity that only Togekiss can provide. Masterclass made an excellent team using Togekiss + Ampharos, and I definitely implore you to check it out. Togekiss's second best set, in my opinion, is its Life Orb set, which is really cool. It again offers defensive synergy, but instead of using Nasty Plot to make its teammates threatening, it uses it with a Life Orb to destroy things. This sets only huge problem is the choice between Fire Blast, Aura Sphere, and Roost (you can only pick two). Otherwise, even with only 80 base speed, LO toge is a really cool set. Then there's the bread and butter specially defensive set, which has a few perks. Fire and foremost, it beats non-Sludge Wave Landorus, which basically should be all Landorus at this point. Other than Landorus, it's also able to serve as an emergency check to Landorus-T, Garchomp, Keldeo, and Mega Gardevoir, while being able to provide hazard removal support, paralysis support for slower teams, offensive presence, and Heal Bell. It can't run all at once, but it's still an interesting defogger capable of beating grounds + less reliably keldeo and gardevoir. It also flinches everything, which allows it to, especially with twave, limit what can beat it.

Electric types are the bane of Togekiss' existence, but it's still able to cope, providing sufficient team support. I think Togekiss' access to Nasty Plot, which is either able to make any special attacker, but specifically Electric types, or itself, extremely dangerous, plus its defensive utility (ground check, garde check, keld check, defog, heal bell, twave) warrants a move up to B-. It's commonly hated on, like Empoleon, but it's not all that different from other B- mons. Ampharos takes the mega slot, needs either togekiss or rain if it's offensive, has to deal with its non mega form (ie it can't switch in on chary if it hasn't evolved yet), and has an absence of reliable recovery. Nevertheless, its unique defensive typing, good coverage, and access to Agility let it carve itself two niches in OU. Togekiss has reliable recovery, the ability to remove rocks, and doesn't cost a mega slot. However it lacks Ampharos' excellent defensive typing and sr neutrality, so I'd say defensively they're about on par. Offensively, Ampharos really needs support to shine (nasty pass or rain), while togekiss doesn't. However, Togekiss is slower, so it's somewhat harder to use v. offense. It also doesn't cause any strain on teambuilding, other than needing a defogger. Again, I'd say their about on par. Then, Toge also has its best set imo, a slow baton passing set capable of making so many pokemon, specifically ampharos, absolutely terrifying. Admittedly it has its flaws, but its not different from Ampharos, Cress, or Chesnaught. All have certain exploitable weaknesses, but have either versatility or extreme proficiency at what they do to make up for it. Togekiss is ridiculously similar to these three; it's versatile as hell, has exploitable weaknesses, and is very good at at least one of its roles, NastyPassing. It's really easy to hate on, since it was so hyped earlier, but I think now it's under hyped.

Yeah I'm not suggesting removal of the D rank, I don't like it but I sort of understand the purpose. I rather not get into discussion that makes OU have an E rank or lower lol.

 

[Aragorn the King]

I support keeping Stoutland unranked. It is a waste of a team slot, and using it with Excadrill just wastes your sand turns.

While we are at it, can we unrank Jellicent, if we are going to unrank Blissey and keep Soutland unrnaked? It only really checks Keldeo, and fails at everything else. It has to rely on Starmie's moveset if it wants to beat it, meaning it is not even a reliable check. I like Jellicent, but all it does is hard wall Keldeo but nothing else. Immunity to Scald is nice, but Jellicent is too niche to even warrant a ranking. Just use all of the other Keldeo checks that are viable. If you are worried about burns, then pack a Cleric, because Cleric support can be fit onto the teams that Jellicent would normally fit on. Therefore, I nominate Jellicent for unranked.

Jellicent was only put in D a week ago, so I doubt anything has changed that warrants its removal.
The explanation was, btw

Jellicent was added to D rank because it has a niche as a spinblocker on Spikes stacking defensive teams and a reliable counter to Keldeo. However, it has a ton of flaws, such as huge Pursuit weakness, mediocre bulk, weakness to many common threats, and competition with other bulky Water-types, which is why it didn't go any higher.

I think its ability to stallbreak decently, counter keldeo, spinblock, burn sweepers, and access to recover lets it stand out. However, like I said, the difference between unranked in D is too small to really focus on. Most people wouldn't care if Jellicent were removed, but I think it's best if it stays, since it can actually do something major + isn't outclassed by anything as a spinblocking stallbreaking keldeo counter.

I agree with AM about the shitty discussion lets realize it, Stoutland will not be ranked.

also lets face it: Blissey will stay D it have been there for ages, and that won't change. lets spark discussion on other pokemon, i nominate landorus-I for A+ *grabs popcorn* <-- that was a joke, get over it.

Dangerous words in Pokemon (and irl)...

It's always been like this and so won't change

If an argument is presented intelligently, and there is enough support, chances are trc, alexwolf, cbb, and nog will agree to make a change in the list.

Also, Landorus-I is considered conclusion reached, and since nothing has changed since last week (ie it's still as effective as it was last week), it, by definition, won't move.

edit:

but no intelligent argument have been made TBH.

Didn't say anything about that. I just said if good arguments are made, then changes will likely follow.

 

[WideTomato]

If enough people nominate to unrank Blissey, then chances are, alexwolf will probably unrank it.

EDIT: I accidentally double posted. Sorry about that.

It still sparks shitty discussion, and honestly, we haven't had many valid reasons to remove it other than ''omg it's so outclassed by chansey, realize it u noobs blissey so bad, just use chansey''

Let's get enough people to nominate slaking for S and itll get s-rank? slaking (unranked) -> S

If an argument is presented intelligently, and there is enough support, chances are trc, alexwolf, cbb, and nog will make the desired changes.

Also, Landorus-I is considered conclusion reached, and since nothing has changed since last week (ie it's still as effective as it was last week), it, by definition, won't move.

but no intelligent argument have been made TBH.

that was a joke, get over it.

 

[Alfalfa]

It still sparks shitty discussion, and honestly, we haven't had many valid reasons to remove it other than ''omg it's so outclassed by chansey, realize it u noobs blissey so bad, just use chansey''

Let's get enough people to nominate slaking for S and itll get s-rank? slaking (unranked) -> S

Actually, we have. If you look back in my posts, you will see that someone stated that Blissey's lack of bulk compared to Eviolite Chansey leaves it steamrolled by threats that Chansey could normally handle, Latios in particular. That statement never directly says the Blissey is outclassed. At least look at what people have read to make sure they have not made an argument that does not contradict your claim.

but with her lesser bulk she will fare less well against many Pokemon Chansey would normally be fine against.

Getting more.

 

[Celticpride]

The main problem with Mega Aggron is that it has no recovery. If it had Recover it would be 10x better, the mega slot argument is really overused lately when it applies to all of them

You know, that might be true, but I feel like it really does apply here. While opportunity cost isn't the main argument against it by far, it is an argument here. I mean Mega Aggron is clearly above the Abomasnow Banette tier of Mega, and it has redeeming qualities that lack of reliable recovery shouldn't hold back. Rhyperior is a very similar mon; slow, good defense, decent attack, Rocks, same type of ability, similar moveset most of the time. Yet Rhyperior is sitting at B-rank and M-Aggron is C+ and maybe dropping.

Also, "it's been there for ages, and that won't change" is a terrible argument for anything. By that logic, the tiers would be locked and the viability rankings would never change. That's also ignoring the fact that the meta has become very offensive in the last few months, and a more offensive meta is not kind to Blissey. It deserves to be at least talked about.

 

[WideTomato]

Actually, we have. If you look back in my posts, you will see that I stated that Blissey's lack of bulk compared to Eviolite Chansey leaves it steamrolled by threats that Chansey could normally handle, Latios in particular. That statement never directly says the Blissey is outclassed. At least look at what I read to make sure I actually made an argument that does not contradict your claim.

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 308-364 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

it have less bulk, but lefties and existing special attack.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Stop the stout land and Blissey talk or they will both be blacklisted cause of them being outclassed by much more viable Pokemon.
Anyways, Can we get a Jirachi talk going? I'm not gonna say much because I'm gonna ruin the fuck outta the thread, but I'm tilting for Rachi to go to A- or stay at B+.

 

[WideTomato]

Alright, I'll make a nominations about something else than the D-ranks.

I nominate mega tyranitar for A-
It just face a lot of competition in the mega slot, also with aegi gone the so-called wall breaking megas just all seem to be raising, and TTar is harder to justify. It also have a rough time against sand, as exca can r-kill it even at +2. It is also heavily depending on dragon dance to boost its speed.

Mega tyranitar is also kept in check by a lot of mons, such as scarf lando, azumarill, breloom, keldeo, ferrothorn, scizor etc. it also faces competition by regular TTar, which can be used alongside other megas and can run multiple sets a lot better.

In most scenarios you're just better off using another mega or even another TTar set.

Let me hear opinions, what do you guys think ^^

EDIT: I don't know if this is a valid agument, but when I teambuild I tend to avoid m-TTar simply because of TTar and azu n_n

 

[Alfalfa]

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 308-364 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

it have less bulk, but lefties and existing special attack.

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 308-364 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Slightly over half the time, you are 2HKOd anyways after Stealth Rock. Would you rather be forced into a 50/50, or avoid the 50-50 altogether? And don't say Stealth Rock is situational, because Stealth Rock is everywhere.

 

[Ender Wiggin]

On a serious note, the only good discussion here is about MAggron. Blissey is Unranked material. I don't care if you run offensive or stall set, Chansey is just better.

Now, on a serious note, I would like to talk about a Pokemon that has a hidden niche.
Don't laugh; but it's Golurk. It has Iron Fist, making punch moves do extra damage and allowing it to OHKO Lando I,T, and possibly Garchomp. It can also run Fire Punch to do major damage to Ferrothorn and Scizor. Now, the special thing about this set is that NO ONE expects it. Run a scarf and Eq mega Char X, OHKO's 80% of the time. It also forces Chansey to switch out with Superpower and whatnot. Sadly I know why it is Unranked, it's because of its horrible defenses and it's mediocre attack, but it's more of a surprise set.
Now, a good thing about golurk is that it checks 2 S rank Pokemon and a ton of A ranks.
I don't think this deserves D rank, but possibly it could? I just wanted to throw this out there. There is just too many sweepers out there I guess.
Calcs:
252 Atk Iron Fist Golurk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 412-488 (129.1 - 152.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Iron Fist Golurk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 400-472 (112 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Iron Fist Golurk Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 254-300 (84.9 - 100.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Iron Fist Golurk Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 110-130 (32.9 - 38.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
252 Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 288-342 (96.9 - 115.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Obviously outclassed, but cool.

If it had recovery it would be A rank or higher.
Not only does it wall every physical sweeper without boosts, it now can recover at it's will?

Stop the stout land and Blissey talk or they will both be blacklisted cause of them being outclassed by much more viable Pokemon.
Anyways, Can we get a Jirachi talk going? I'm not gonna say much because I'm gonna ruin the fuck outta the thread, but I'm tilting for Rachi to go to A- or stay at B+.

You say blatantly trolley garbage like that than complain about a discussion that's not totally useless and then say you're not gonna ruin the thread...

 

[WideTomato]

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 308-364 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Slightly over half the time, you are 2HKOd anyways after Stealth Rock. Would you rather be forced into a 50/50, or avoid the 50-50 altogether? And don't say Stealth Rock is situational, because Stealth Rock is everywhere.

On the other hand

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 217-256 (30.3 - 35.8%) -- 44.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Blissey Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 248-296 (72 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Blissey Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 192-228 (54.5 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Alfalfa]

How about we all shut up about Blissey, because now the "shitty arugments" are starting to coming up more and more. Blissey doesn't want Fire Blast because the low PP really hurts on the playstyle Blissey would theoretically fit on if you were ever to use it (stall). The same applied last gen; Fire Blast 2HKOd Skarmory and Ferrothorn, but the lack of PP hurt. Let's all call it a day and wait for Alexwolf and wait for his decision.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

My thing with magnezone is its pretty meh vs teams without certain steels a lot like gothitelle, which traps all those steels also + more. Granted its not complete dead weight, but another poke would usually be prefered.

Also I find switching in on scizor sort of dangerous with superpower lurking.
Also scarf fails to ko scizor which can return ko.
Also mispredicts lead to becoming set up bait.

Think B+ is fine for it.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

Ok, lets get some good discussion going.

->A-

Victini is really good right now. It has CB, SubPup, Stalltini, and even mixed if you really want to. SubPup in particular is the reason I want it to rise, considering that it has frightening offensive presence while being able to set up on mega garde and mega medi. It has great coverage and power between V-Create and Bolt Strike. Sure, SR+Pursuit weaknesses might hinder it, but when you think about it, neither of the things that want to pursuit trap it want to switch in, and even then, it can just use sub to negate the pursuit. Its unique combo of offensive and defensive presence can allow it to set up a sub, and proceed to wreak havoc. Of course, stalltini is still good, but subpup takes the cake as its best set. And I believe it to be A- worthy, especially considering that its easily better than stuff like chansey and skarm.

-> A-

 

[Synchronation]

Who has ever thought that Blissey and Stoutland would cause so much discussion xD

Anyways, back to more important discussions:

Zapdos stay in B-:
Some people suggested to drop it in C+ a few pages ago. I heavily disagree with that. The problem with Zapdos was that it can't stop Birdspam and looses to Sand-offense. While this is true, I think dropping it to B- is more than enough. Sand-offense being a very popular playstyle Zapdos just is not as good as it was before, even if Toxic over Heatwave gives it some opportunities to weaken Tyranitar and Landorus. I hope we can all agree with that.
Many claim that Zapdos is not a good Birdspam-check. Well, yes, because he can not switch into CB-Flareblitz anyways. He is more of a Pinsir-check than a general Birdspam-check and I think this is enough to warrant its rank. Whenever I used Zapdos, I never thought "now I don't have to worry about Birdspam anymore!", I used it because it is a reliable Defogger (despite being SR-weak) and can check Pinsir if he managed to get a SD up. Zapdos has nice bulk and can go physical or special defensive (or both) to deal with certain threats. It has gotten worse because of the metagame-change, but not THAT bad that it should drop to C+. It has a nice niche, good recovery and utility to run Heatwave, HP Ice or Toxic whatever your team needs more. Keep it at B-.

Magnezone to A-:
I don't have much to add here. It is definitely meta-defining and it is actually a shame that such a influencing Pokemon is not there. It's scarf-set is pretty amazing, even if many people keep forgetting that it can run a hard hitting specs-set too, which allows it to OHKO more threats and invest in bulk at the cost of speed (I still think Magneton is the better scarfer...).

Ferrothorn to A:
Nothing more to add here. Very good Pokemon, but the rise of Magnezone and Magneton hurts its viability. I think a drop is necessary for this simple reason.

The 2 Pokemon that filled the last pages:
I don't want to talk too much about them since its pretty obvious, but here is my opinion about them:
Blissey can run offensively. Who cares? Aromatisse is a Cleric that cannot be taunted. Who cares? Nobody. As long as the niche is not even useful on certain teams that really NEED that niche it shouldn't be ranked.
About Stoutland: If Seismitoad is in D-Rank I don't see why this Pokemon shouldn't be. It can be used alongside with Excadrill to be effective, so it has a good defining niche.

And because I am at this point so I will nominate it:

Seismitoad should be unranked:
Too much competition with other Sift Swim users. I never really saw this thing being useful in any rain-teams. Kabutops, Omastar and Kingdra are 3 really great rain-sweeper, there is really no need for Seismitoad.

And last but not least, a maybe very crazy nomination...

Mega-Aggron should be unranked:
I really (and I mean REALLY) never saw this thing being used effectively in OU. It is just outclassed in everything it does. Ferrothorn is a better hazard-setter and has with Leftovers and Leech Seed better recovery, Bisharp and Excadrill are better offensive Steel-types and both of them can support the team even further (Rapid Spin or Pursuit) and even Bronzong has better utility as suicide-lead, Screener or Trick-Room-setter. The thing is, Mega-Aggron is actually not that bad, it has great defense and an amazing ability. But it is what it is: A Mega-Pokemon. It is not only outclassed by many other Pokemon, it ALSO costs you the mega-slot! Even as a defensive Mega it is STILL outclassed by Venusaur who has a actual recovery. Right now I am REALLY curious what this Pokemon really does in the OU-metagame. I know some people already suggested to move it down, but I feel that even C-Rank is way too good for him. I just don't see the point in using a Mega-Pokemon who is outclassed by non-megas at everything it tries to do. Therefore, I nominate Mega-Aggron from C+ to unranked (a very high downfall, I know).

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Sorry for double post...
I have decided to suggest a rank up for Rachi.

Jirachi B+ ------> A-

I think this is the best para flinch user in the meta. Togekiss bows down to Rachi. I'm gonna focus mostly on Rachis para flinch set, as it is the best. It can choose to run Body Slam for Ground Types or TWave to get a 100% para chance on all but Electric and Ground types. Now it can cripple the fuck out of the Pokemon by using STAB Iron Head or coverage moves like Ice Punch or Fire Punch for other pokemons. And if a threat is out that is slower than it (Rachi has a few amount of checks that have the balls to switch in) you can U turn it. Even with the Steel nerf, it still has a great defensive typing and great bulk. It also has a good amount of sets for Ubers and OU. In my opinion, it should not stay in a rank where things like Kabutops, Politoed, Mandibuzz, and Torn T stay. Just noticed this was quite weak. I would also like to add in how it checks non EQ MPinsir and MHera with Zen Headbutt (as mentioned) and can wall a great amount of the meta with Mew like defenses.

Magnezone to A-

It traps viable Steel types, all it's sets are pretty viable, it kicks fucking ass, and it fucks over Trus p well.

 

[Jaroda]

I'll just get rid of this shitty Blissey talk.
Rachi is the best para flinch user in OU right now. It has a solid 100/100/100 bulk and can outspeed many threats like non scarfed Lando and MHeracross. It can run Body Slam to paralyze Ground and Electric types and can easily iron head them to death. Obviously, ground types will check/counter it, so you should switch out, also. Things like Landorus T or I would be a great team partner, while they can take out threats to Rachi and then cause Rachi to sweep. Rachi can also run Ice/Fire punch and Wish, if nessesary. You would be surprised how many things Rachi can take out with little skill. If it sees a slower threat it can U turn and ditch to a counter. Overall, this thing fits OK into the meta and gives a middle finger to a decent amount of OU threats.

You can't paralyze Electric types, just like you can't poison Poison types or burn Fire types. Also you're still talking far too generally, and you didn't even say what you're nominating Jirachi for.

Magnezone for A-: As was said, it is the definitive Steel killer and just pairs so well with so many things. It is really good at doing its job with the only Steel it has trouble killing is Heatran since it can't run HP Fire and HP Ground at once. It pairs well it so many Dragons and Fairy types and pretty much single handedly paves the way for those kinds of sweeps. The scarf set is also a great check to Flyspam as well, thanks to 4x resisting Flying.

Ferrothorn for A: There's no denying that Ferrothorn has a phenomenal typing, stats, movepool and ability, but A+ it is not. While it is a good switch into many things, it is absurdly predictable and very susceptible to double switches and set up sweepers. While it is an annoyance, it is really easy to play around. While its presence isn't passive by any means, Grass/Steel is very poor offensively, and Power Whip has horrible accuracy on top of Gyro Ball having variable power. Not to mention HP Fire is so common merely for this thing, it really isn't hard to prepare for. The fact that it is so easily taken out by HP Fire means that it is brutally easy to lure. And as was mentioned, Magnezone rising itself is a very huge reason Ferrothorn can fall as well, resisting both STABs and being immune to Thunder Wave too.

 

[RotomPoison]

Thread has been kind of bad so...

Ferrothorn could possibly go to A. Based on the moves it runs it can be setup bait for Charizard X, Clefable, nearly anything is possible because it has pretty bad 4MSS. The only problem with it dropping is that it handles sand and rain offense really well outside of some rarer Pokemon, walling Kingdra, Low Kick-less Kabutops, any form of Politoed, Excadrill, among others. The only real flaws are 4MSS, that Fire weakness which leaves it as Clef and Zard bait, and it being prone to being worn down thanks to no recovery. I think its 4MSS, problems with common Pokemon like Clef, Zard and Taunt Thundurus don't really outweigh handling top threats like Azu, Drill, HP Fire-less Latis. Also, it isn't immediately OHKOd by a weak HP Fire. Some even fail to 2HKO, especially after Leech Seed and Protect. It's also immune to Toxic and if running Gyro Ball doesn't mind paralysis and is immune to Spore/Sleep Powder. I think its access to hazards is also being underestimated too, this is what sets it apart from walls like Slowbro more than anything, along with its great typing. Keep it A+ or put it in A, either is fine, but just wanted to bring that up.

Pinsir (Mega) This thing is not going to S. Everything that outspends it in OU can do a ton of damage, and that Rocks weakness. It relies on Quick Attack a lot if it wants to sweep, and if it wants to come in often it needs Defog. It has decent synergy with the Latis, but Defog isn't exactly mandatory on Latios. Keep A+

Venusaur (Mega) Sand is getting better, and while its offensive set is good, it loses out on coverage or Sleep Powder, and since sand really i that good it often ends up with only 19% recovery. Toxic immunity is nice but I don't think it's that good, but I know others disagree, I personally don't like it that much. Consider dropping it to A but I doubt it will happen

Gardevoir (Mega) I think this is possible to join A+. It's just so strong. The Speed more than makes up for the power difference with Specs Sylveon. It doesn't have much sweeping potential and it's outclassed there by Clefable, but its movepool sets it over the edge. Hyper Voice is the only truly mandatory move. Psyshock, Focus Blast, Will-O, Taunt, HP Ground, Shadow Ball, even Destiny Bond all work in the other slots.

Not nomming it at all, but give Mega Tyranitar some more credit. If you find it walled by Ferro, be smart and run Fire Punch over EQ.

Hippowdon should stay A-. It's a great wall with good typing, and is often seen as a more passive TTar when it has an entirely different role.

Jirachi This needs to join A- for reasons mentioned (though not really well) It has lost a lot in the ten shift, but its typing is still good. It handles Mega Gardevoir, checks Heracross if it runs Zen Headbutt, and is just in general a great mon that even gets Rocks, Wish, Healing Wish, a great SubToxic set, possible SubCM sets, Scarf, mixed, physical and others. It's better than Mandibuzz for sure, don't even compare it to that

Magnezone A-, for reasons already said

Starmie A- should be reconsidered, it's just such a great offensive mon in general thanks to Analytic and is the best dedicated spinner in OU, and it can work on offense with a LO set, and has a decent defensive spin set too. I can't believe both this and Rachi were once unranked.

Victini I'm not entirely sure it deserves A-, it has a lot of significant flaws such as being Pursuit or trapping bait after a V-create, I say keep B+

Celebi B+ is perfectly reasonable for a mon with recovery, Heal Bell, U-turn/BP to escape Pursuit, Nasty Plot, a great SpDef set, making it a Keldeo counter, and of course PerishTrap :]

Staraptor I've gone over this twice so look at older posts of mine, but bump Raptor to B+

Quagsire It's not that good anymore, B-

Weavile Already said why but B

Zapdos I disagree with it dropping because you're all using it as a Birdspam counter when it's not. It's a Defogger that check Pinsir and can pivot with Volt Switch

Aggron (Mega) It has the most physical defense in the tier and an amazing typing. If you hate its lack of recovery hat much, Fairy-type Wish passers have good synergy with it. Keep it in C+, it's not Bronzong level garbage

Crawdaunt It should go up not down... this thing has no realistic switch ins and has priority to fix its Speed, and it isn't ridiculously frail

Espeon Why is this C+ ???

Klefki I said why before but B-

Gastrodon Drop to C please, it's not good.

Porygon2 Once again, C+

Tornadus I made a post about Tornadus a while back but never officially nonmed it. Find that post for reasoning, C.

Blissey Get out and blacklist please

Zygarde C- for Zygarde and Mence while I'm at it for reasons mentioned by a ton of people...

Ferro: Possibly A
Pinsir: Stay A+
Venusaur: Possibly A
Gardevoir: Possibly A+
Run Fire Punch Mega TTar people
Hippowdon: Stay A-
Jirachi: A-
Magnezone: A-
Starmie: A-
Victini: Stay B+
Celebi: B+
Staraptor: B+
Quagsire: B-
Weavile: B
Zapdos: Stay B-
Aggron: Stay C+
Crawdaunt: B-
Espeon: C
Klefki: B-
Gastrodon: C
Porygon2: C+
Tornadus: C
Blissey: Remove and blacklist
Zygarde: C-
Salamence: C-

 

[Stef0w]

TY so much rotom poison.

Mag needs to move up, in this dragon/fairy metagame, taking out an opponents steel is super vital, and if scarfed, it can somwhat handle birdspam.

I really like Starmie, Lets get it back into OU please, gengar feels lonely. also has a cool bulky set, and can pivot into wisp's and toxics.

I can been advocating Klefki since I joined, Please let it move up. it misses SR tho, but thunder wave and spikes are still awesome.

Pinsir and venusaur can both stay, sand is good, but tbh it's just this god everyone is hyping it to be.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Since RotomPoison is doing this, I might as well.

Blissey & Stoutland: Blacklist and Derank

Did you see the shit it spawned? I don't want that to happen again. Outclassed by A rank Pokemon.

Jirachi: B+ ----> A-

Reasons I stated above.

Talonflame: A+ ----> A

Countered/Checked by a decent amount of the meta, with all of the Sand Teams and bird spam counters running wild, this thing has lost it's once amazing role in OU. It's still shines brightly, putting down offensive pressure and forcing switch outs, but we have Zapdos, Rhypherior, Rotom Wash, ScarfZone, Heatran, Lando T, Tyranitar, etc. and most of them are decently popular. Not to mention it's 4x weak to Rocks and extremely frail.

Mew: A ----> A

It's fine where it is. Nothing changed at all after the past few weeks with him.

Pinsir/MGarde/MHera: A+

All play different roles but are all great at what they do. MGarde spams Hyper Voice, runs a lot of movesets, and has an amazing SpA. Hera is POWER and breaks through subs with it's amazing ability. Pinsir has great versatility and has Flying Prio. Also Return is sooo Spammy.

Azumarill: S ----> S++++++++++++

Best poke in the meta. Please make an S+ rank for our god! Azu.

 

[Alfalfa]

Since RotomPoison is doing this, I might as well.

Blissey & Stoutland: Blacklist and Derank

Did you see the shit it spawned? I don't want that to happen again. Outclassed by A rank Pokemon.

Jirachi: B+ ----> A-

Reasons I stated above.

Talonflame: A+ ----> A

Countered/Checked by a decent amount of the meta, with all of the Sand Teams and bird spam counters running wild, this thing has lost it's once amazing role in OU. It's still shines brightly, putting down offensive pressure and forcing switch outs, but we have Zapdos, Rhypherior, Rotom Wash, ScarfZone, Heatran, Lando T, Tyranitar, etc. and most of them are decently popular. Not to mention it's 4x weak to Rocks and extremely frail.

Mew: A ----> A

It's fine where it is. Nothing changed at all after the past few weeks with him.

Pinsir/MGarde/MHera: A+

All play different roles but are all great at what they do. MGarde spams Hyper Voice, runs a lot of movesets, and has an amazing SpA. Hera is POWER and breaks through subs with it's amazing ability. Pinsir has great versatility and has Flying Prio. Also Return is sooo Spammy.

Azumarill: S ----> S++++++++++++

Best poke in the meta. Please make an S+ rank for our god! Azu.

I agree with everything, though I am a bit ehh on Gardevoir. My nomination for Wobbuffet to C+ Rank got ignored again. As I said before, it is not even bad, it was probably put that low during Aegislash days. It is not outclassed by Gothitelle because Wobb is much better versus offense, and Wobb can actually fit onto offensive teams itself, unlike Goth, who kills your momentum too easily.

Also, Celebi for B+ Rank. Celebi's flexibility makes it so easy to use on countless teams. It cannot wall everything it wants to wall (it wants physical investment for Landorus, but special investment for Keldeo and Latios), but it can pretty much be suited to whatever your team needs. Plus, it can just Baton Pass out of any Pursuit trapper, which is a pretty unique ability itself.


Also,

Thread has been kind of bad so...

Ferrothorn could possibly go to A. Based on the moves it runs it can be setup bait for Charizard X, Clefable, nearly anything is possible because it has pretty bad 4MSS. The only problem with it dropping is that it handles sand and rain offense really well outside of some rarer Pokemon, walling Kingdra, Low Kick-less Kabutops, any form of Politoed, Excadrill, among others. The only real flaws are 4MSS, that Fire weakness which leaves it as Clef and Zard bait, and it being prone to being worn down thanks to no recovery. I think its 4MSS, problems with common Pokemon like Clef, Zard and Taunt Thundurus don't really outweigh handling top threats like Azu, Drill, HP Fire-less Latis. Also, it isn't immediately OHKOd by a weak HP Fire. Some even fail to 2HKO, especially after Leech Seed and Protect. It's also immune to Toxic and if running Gyro Ball doesn't mind paralysis and is immune to Spore/Sleep Powder. I think its access to hazards is also being underestimated too, this is what sets it apart from walls like Slowbro more than anything, along with its great typing. Keep it A+ or put it in A, either is fine, but just wanted to bring that up.

Pinsir (Mega) This thing is not going to S. Everything that outspends it in OU can do a ton of damage, and that Rocks weakness. It relies on Quick Attack a lot if it wants to sweep, and if it wants to come in often it needs Defog. It has decent synergy with the Latis, but Defog isn't exactly mandatory on Latios. Keep A+

Venusaur (Mega) Sand is getting better, and while its offensive set is good, it loses out on coverage or Sleep Powder, and since sand really i that good it often ends up with only 19% recovery. Toxic immunity is nice but I don't think it's that good, but I know others disagree, I personally don't like it that much. Consider dropping it to A but I doubt it will happen

Gardevoir (Mega) I think this is possible to join A+. It's just so strong. The Speed more than makes up for the power difference with Specs Sylveon. It doesn't have much sweeping potential and it's outclassed there by Clefable, but its movepool sets it over the edge. Hyper Voice is the only truly mandatory move. Psyshock, Focus Blast, Will-O, Taunt, HP Ground, Shadow Ball, even Destiny Bond all work in the other slots.

Not nomming it at all, but give Mega Tyranitar some more credit. If you find it walled by Ferro, be smart and run Fire Punch over EQ.

Hippowdon should stay A-. It's a great wall with good typing, and is often seen as a more passive TTar when it has an entirely different role.

Jirachi This needs to join A- for reasons mentioned (though not really well) It has lost a lot in the ten shift, but its typing is still good. It handles Mega Gardevoir, checks Heracross if it runs Zen Headbutt, and is just in general a great mon that even gets Rocks, Wish, Healing Wish, a great SubToxic set, possible SubCM sets, Scarf, mixed, physical and others. It's better than Mandibuzz for sure, don't even compare it to that

Magnezone A-, for reasons already said

Starmie A- should be reconsidered, it's just such a great offensive mon in general thanks to Analytic and is the best dedicated spinner in OU, and it can work on offense with a LO set, and has a decent defensive spin set too. I can't believe both this and Rachi were once unranked.

Victini I'm not entirely sure it deserves A-, it has a lot of significant flaws such as being Pursuit or trapping bait after a V-create, I say keep B+

Celebi B+ is perfectly reasonable for a mon with recovery, Heal Bell, U-turn/BP to escape Pursuit, Nasty Plot, a great SpDef set, making it a Keldeo counter, and of course PerishTrap :]

Staraptor I've gone over this twice so look at older posts of mine, but bump Raptor to B+

Quagsire It's not that good anymore, B-

Weavile Already said why but B

Zapdos I disagree with it dropping because you're all using it as a Birdspam counter when it's not. It's a Defogger that check Pinsir and can pivot with Volt Switch

Aggron (Mega) It has the most physical defense in the tier and an amazing typing. If you hate its lack of recovery hat much, Fairy-type Wish passers have good synergy with it. Keep it in C+, it's not Bronzong level garbage

Crawdaunt It should go up not down... this thing has no realistic switch ins and has priority to fix its Speed, and it isn't ridiculously frail

Espeon Why is this C+ ???

Klefki I said why before but B-

Gastrodon Drop to C please, it's not good.

Porygon2 Once again, C+

Tornadus I made a post about Tornadus a while back but never officially nonmed it. Find that post for reasoning, C.

Blissey Get out and blacklist please

Zygarde C- for Zygarde and Mence while I'm at it for reasons mentioned by a ton of people...

Ferro: Possibly A
Pinsir: Stay A+
Venusaur: Possibly A
Gardevoir: Possibly A+
Run Fire Punch Mega TTar people
Hippowdon: Stay A-
Jirachi: A-
Magnezone: A-
Starmie: A-
Victini: Stay B+
Celebi: B+
Staraptor: B+
Quagsire: B-
Weavile: B
Zapdos: Stay B-
Aggron: Stay C+
Crawdaunt: B-
Espeon: C
Klefki: B-
Gastrodon: C
Porygon2: C+
Tornadus: C
Blissey: Remove and blacklist
Zygarde: C-
Salamence: C-

Alexwolf is sold that GeoPass + Espeon is the second coming of Christ, even though Espeon requires significantly more support than just GeoPass Smeargle just to work. In my opinion, I would drop Espeon to C Rank, but if you think you can convince Alexwolf, go ahead.

 

[Vert]

Jirachi shouldn't move up anymore. sand Offense is everywhere and prevalence of threats like lando and chomp etc make it hard to use. Not to mention megas like mega Hera, zardxy, and mega tar can break past it easily and it is slow considering no speed investment. Thundy can run np to break past it. So many play styles have a way to easily threaten it and the lack of recovery if not using wish means that mega hard and Latios can break past it after multiple voices and meteors. still really good but not at the the level as many of the other a- mons

 

[Noveliss]

Just going to go ahead and drop a couple things here. Kthx

B+ ---> A-: Pretty much the best offensive spinner around due to its good coverage + Analytic allowing it to beat any spinblocker. Can also use Reflect type to fuck over pursuit trappers too. Just overall a great 'mon.

B+ ---> A-: Same as others above have stated.

B ---> B+: #1 suicide bird. If rocks aren't on the field, he can have a field day with walls and also can smack Skarm with Final Gambit to open up a sweep for M-Pinsir ( who should also move up too imo).

Unrank and Blacklist: Total garb. Really shouldn't even cause this much commotion either.

And put Azumarill in God Rank imo.

So there's my two cents.