Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[RufflesPro]

Let's compare Darmanitan to the wallbreakers of the A and S ranks.

1. Mixed Aegislash

Much higher bulk, much better typing, higher base Attack and Special attack, has priority, less speed but the difference is negligible because in this meta it's practically >100 or gfto

2. Mixed MegaChomp

Much better bulk, much better mixed attacking stats, practically identical speed, takes up mega slot

3. CB Azumarill

Much better bulk, much better typing, hits like a train wreck, has priority, neglibigle speed difference for the same reason as Aegislash

4. ZardY

much better nuke in general but has a bad SR weakness and takes up the mega slot

5. Mega Mawile

better bulk, highest base attack in the game after factoring in Huge Power, one of the best typings, has strong priority, takes up mega slot, slower but that still doesn't matter for wallbreakers

6. Kyurem-B

Higher base attack stat, higher special attack, much better bulk, same speed, SR weakness, poor physical movepool

7. Mega Medicham

100% better than darmanitan except it takes up the mega slot

8. Conkeldurr

same attack stat and also has sheer force, much better bulk, one of the best AV users, does everything darmanitan can but with even more viable options except it is a lot slower but, finally, that doesn't matter too much for wallbreakers

As you can see, it is completely eclipsed by pokemon in the higher ranks. If all those pokemon had much less reasons why it's overall better than darmanitan, then it could be a B but it when compared to the pokemon of the higer ranks it only has one maybe two slight advantages over them, while they completely outclass it at everything else. That is why Darmanitan is a C. Plz dude, this argument should not have lasted this long. Can we please argue about something else like maybe a ranking for Mega Abomasnow?

And please don't bring up goddamn scarf Darmanitan because I really don't want to make all of the comparisons to show you why you're wrong again.

Alright man you are contradicting yourself now, first you say Darmanitan is C b/c he has way too low speed, and now you are saying 50 speed is enough to wallbreak, PLS restrain to one reason at the very least, I have argued that 95 speed is enough to wallbreak and you said "wtf no it is not" and then "Mega mawile has enough speed to wallbreak" and you don't stop there, you also say "Conkeldurr has enough speed to wallbreak" ok, you are making 0 sense now.

Ok that's one, and now two: The pokemons you mentioned DO outclass Darmanitan, but you have provided no true evidence, you lacked legit reasoning, and sometimes your reasoning was wrong.

First, Mega Medicham does outclass Darmanitan, but just saying that is not evidence.
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 1718-2022 (609.2 - 717%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 1736-2046 (615.6 - 725.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Life Orb Jolly Darmanitan is doing a bit less, FB has less recoil than HJK, but Mega Medicham has more speed, coverage, etc. so Mega medicham does outclass, but not just flat out "outclass 100%"

and Mega Char Y isn't a "Much better nuke"

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow (I made Abomsnow have Equal SpD to Def) in Sun: 1596-1876 (415.6 - 488.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 1778-2095 (463 - 545.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Char Y outclasses it b/c it has MUCH better coverage and better speed.

And I could go on forever, but I want to point out my third thing: You compared it to rank A & S, exactly why I'm putting it on B-

 

[Josh Morales]

Alright man you are contradicting yourself now, first you say Darmanitan is C b/c he has way too low speed,

mother of god...

You said 95 speed was good and I said it wasn't.

And I could go on forever, but I want to point out my third thing: You compared it to rank A & S, exactly why I'm putting it on B-

You compare it to A & S for both B and C rank qualifications.

B is partially eclipsed by A & S rank mons

C is completely eclipsed by A & S rank mons, not by B rank mons.

Well I've had enough of this thread, I'm just gonna go write up the OU analyses I've been needing to do for a while.

 

[RufflesPro]

mother of god...

You said 95 speed was good and I said it wasn't.



You compare it to A & S for both B and C rank qualifications.

B is partially eclipsed by A & S rank mons

C is completely eclipsed by A & S rank mons, not by B rank mons.

Well I've had enough of this thread, I'm just gonna go write up the OU analyses I've been needing to do for a while.

Exactly, I said 95 speed was good enough to wallbreak, and you said it wasn't, then, you go and say Mega Mawile's base speed (50) is good to wallbreak, THAT's what I meant by you contradicting yourself.

And have you not read the OP? It literally said that pokemons that are partially overpowered may exist there, the key word is may, that's why Darmanitan is not B+ or B, but B- fits him. Because he is not partially overpowered, but he is also not completely eclipsed.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the C rank are also for pokemons that completely eclipsed by pokemons "in the above rank" so again correct me if I'm wrong, but that also includes B tier.

 

[Hidious]

The OP said that he isn't going to rank anything that doesn't have an OU preview because it is pointless right now. Darmanitan doesn't even get a ranking, like Jolteon, Florges, Pikachu, and Sunkern. This Darmanitan discussion has gone too far now.

 

[MikeDawg]

Let's compare Darmanitan to the wallbreakers of the A and S ranks.

1. Mixed Aegislash

Much higher bulk, much better typing, higher base Attack and Special attack, has priority, less speed but the difference is negligible because in this meta it's practically >100 or gfto

2. Mixed MegaChomp

Much better bulk, much better mixed attacking stats, practically identical speed, takes up mega slot

3. CB Azumarill

Much better bulk, much better typing, hits like a train wreck, has priority, neglibigle speed difference for the same reason as Aegislash

4. ZardY

much better nuke in general but has a bad SR weakness and takes up the mega slot

5. Mega Mawile

better bulk, highest base attack in the game after factoring in Huge Power, one of the best typings, has strong priority, takes up mega slot, slower but that still doesn't matter for wallbreakers

6. Kyurem-B

Higher base attack stat, higher special attack, much better bulk, same speed, SR weakness, poor physical movepool

7. Mega Medicham

100% better than darmanitan except it takes up the mega slot

8. Conkeldurr

same attack stat and also has sheer force, much better bulk, one of the best AV users, does everything darmanitan can but with even more viable options except it is a lot slower but, finally, that doesn't matter too much for wallbreakers

As you can see, it is completely eclipsed by pokemon in the higher ranks. If all those pokemon had much less reasons why it's overall better than darmanitan, then it could be a B but it when compared to the pokemon of the higer ranks it only has one maybe two slight advantages over them, while they completely outclass it at everything else. That is why Darmanitan is a C. Plz dude, this argument should not have lasted this long. Can we please argue about something else like maybe a ranking for Mega Abomasnow?

And please don't bring up goddamn scarf Darmanitan because I really don't want to make all of the comparisons to show you why you're wrong again.

This is such an arguing-for-the-sake-of-arguing post. Like forreal, where even is the logic here?

It doesn't matter how much higher their attacking stats are. Darmanitan is out damaging just about all of them regardless because sheer force and high bp.

>100 or gtfo? Where's the justification for that, exactly? Especially given the somewhat slower meta that is forming.

Darmanitan has excellent coverage, very nice speed, absurd power that can be boosted further rather easily by sun, and even gets a free Life Orb that is beneficial in more ways than one.

It also has some nice resistances, namely steel and fairy.

It's only real competitors out of that list are medicham, who is vulnerable to all priority and relies on the unfortunate hjk while still only mildly outdamaging darm only outside the sun, and kyu-b who's coverage does not fare as well this gen and also does not outpower darm.

Darm thrives much better in this meta than it did the last, what with rain not existing and it gaining a new resistance and the like

Both C+ or B- would be swell rankings for Darm. Though if it is C+, the reasons that you proposed would hardly suffice.

Regardless, I think manaphy should drop to A/tentative A-.

It can sweep like a mofo, but only in very opprotune situations against rather unprepared teams. It wishes it had more bulk or more speed but at this point, it requires effectively impossible support to get the job done well every time. I love the thing to death but it is not A+

 

[RufflesPro]

The OP said that he isn't going to rank anything that doesn't have an OU preview because it is pointless right now. Darmanitan doesn't even get a ranking, like Jolteon, Florges, Pikachu, and Sunkern. This Darmanitan discussion has gone too far now.

Alright, sorry for that, but I think it is fair enough to say that I saw Florges there not too long ago.

 

[Hidious]

Alright, sorry for that, but I think it is fair enough to say that I saw Florges there not too long ago.

It was taken down because Florges is completely outclassed by sylveon once it could transfer heal bell. I asked to change it down from a B to a C+/B- but it was decided it has absolutely no worth in OU so it won't get ranked. Same with Jolteon.

 

[Numera]

Ditto in C? Ditto isnt completly eclpised by pokemon in above ranks, ditto does its own unique job. I als dont see any crippling flaws either. It pretty much gains the flaws of the pokemon its copying, so I am abit confused on its placement. However, being locked into 1 move and having 5 pp could be considerd a flaw.

I'm happy about the rest apart from Talonflame in A+. Make it A. It can sweep fairly large portions, but unlike other A+'s, (tell me if i missed one) it is walled by a single type (rock) and the most commly used pokemon (rotom W) walls it to the end of the earth.
I know you could argue Lati@s are walld by steels, but they get an actully viable HP fire to use

 

[farranpoison]

Ditto in C? Ditto isnt completly eclpised by pokemon in above ranks, ditto does its own unique job. I als dont see any crippling flaws either. It pretty much gains the flaws of the pokemon its copying, so I am abit confused on its placement. However, being locked into 1 move and having 5 pp could be considerd a flaw.

I'm happy about the rest apart from Talonflame in A+. Make it A. It can sweep fairly large portions, but unlike other A+'s, (tell me if i missed one) it is walled by a single type (rock) and the most commly used pokemon (rotom W) walls it to the end of the earth.
I know you could argue Lati@s are walld by steels, but they get an actully viable HP fire to use

Ditto is in C because it pretty much is only useful against offensive teams. Against defensive teams or stall, it doesn't do anything. Also, it's pretty much required to run Choice Scarf, so it's very predictable. Low HP doesn't help its survive long either.

 

[Numera]

Ditto is in C because it pretty much is only useful against offensive teams. Against defensive teams or stall, it doesn't do anything. Also, it's pretty much required to run Choice Scarf, so it's very predictable. Low HP doesn't help its survive long either.

I can see that now. thats a fair point and it makes plenty of sense now i think about it.

i really dont have anything else to say about this as im pretty happy with it. Ill probably say more when other things are placed into the viability rankings.

 

[SansNickel]

Ditto is in C because it pretty much is only useful against offensive teams. Against defensive teams or stall, it doesn't do anything. Also, it's pretty much required to run Choice Scarf, so it's very predictable. Low HP doesn't help its survive long either.

I agree with everything you said, but I think it should maybe be bumped up to B-.
It may be predictable, but it does a great job at three things:
1. Discourage the opponent from setting up. This is actually great for defensive teams, as it means they can't set up to get through your walls, or they risk being reverse swept.
2. Stop a sweep, sometimes even reverse it (a +6 dragonite is never gg!)
3. Copy a mega.
It is required to run a choice scarf, though sometimes I think bluffing one would be cool. The natural tendency when I switch in ditto to something is for the opponent to switch out anyway.
Although (extremely) risky, sometimes you can switch into things like lando-t, jolteon, jellicent, gliscor, heatran, etc. and regain momentum. I'm not saying this is a good idea, but with right prediction it can be rewarding (as is everything).
It is indeed the most deadweight against stall, but it's not always the worst, I usually switch into their defensive pokemon (ditto has lowish HP but it's not being hit by anything hard) then can heal my team or clear hazards with their own move. Of course, it still doesn't do as much as a normal pokemon would.
However, in this meta there are so many pokemon trying to set up, like garchomp and mega lucario. Scarfing them after they get a boost is no joke (especially when it's mega luke or mega mawile or +6 azumarill and the rest of their team has no resistances it's so pretty). I believe simply the amount of offensive teams (almost all of which have a mega) make ditto quite viable.
The other B- pokemon are galvantula and klefki. The only crap galvantula can do is set up sticky web then die. People are arguing Klefki for at least A- / B+ anyway. I believe ditto is way more useful and versatile than galvantula, and so it at least deserves that rank.

 

[Bent1ey]

If you ask me, discussing about the difference between C and B- or A and A+ is entirely pointless right now. Let's populate the C rank properly and give it an identity before trying to rescue barely usable Pokemon from it by long arguments.

Anyways, I'd like to know your opinion about the ranks for the other Weather Starters. Poliwrath is still a A-rank support Pokemon in my book, decent support options, valid bulk, bulky Swift Swim abusers that resist the priority of your choice depending in how you build your team.

 

[Liquidocelot]

I would like to nominate Crawdaunt for B-
Pros
Because although it might not be "ou" this gen it is very viable. What changes it from last gen is the fact that it now got 3 very important things this gen 1. Priority in the form of aqua jet which allows it to tie for most powerful water priority with azu and allows it to revenge a lot of things while also patching up its biggest problem last gen its speed. 2. The steel nerd which allows it to not be walled by a bunch of steel types this gen (such as ferrothorn) and gives him much broader type coverage type coverage options. This also made ghost types more viable which he resits and can often come in and set up on. 3. The knock off buff which gives him a very good strong stab dark type move which is also arguably the hardest move to switch into in the game. Further more this move allows him to cripple a lot of his would be counters and hit harder then most pokemon in the entire game (including ubers)
Cons
Some of crawdaunts flaws are its very low speed even after a boost and with priority and speaking of priority he is weak to many common priority attacks such as mach punch and vacuum wave and gen be checked by most fighting types and he is on the rather frail side too.

Overall while crawdaunt is not a perfect i think he is solid enough for B- and can work really well with some support.

Edit: he is also resistant to common priority such as bullet punch and sucker punch.

 

[November Blue]

I'd like to nominate Mega Venusaur for S+++ Rank.

I've been using this guy on my team, and...

Dear god, this thing is incredible. Just incredible!

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 54.9 - 64.8%

Look at this calc. Look at it! MegaZardY is no threat to MegaSaur at all. It can't even switch in:

4 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 34.2 - 40.6%

If Charizard tries to switch into MegaSaur (and believe me, a few have tried), Sludge Bomb 2HKOs with Leech Seed damage.

The thing I love most is the immunity to Trick. Aside from a burn, Rotom-W is hard countered. Genesect struggles to deal any significant damage, and really, unless you have a Psychic or Flying-type move you're not getting past MegaSaur.

I team mine up with a Sylveon for Heal Bell support and Slowbro for physical hits. It's just such a solid choice that you're at a disadvantage if you're NOT using one. I have to wonder how this will affect all of the other megas, especially as the word spreads and MegaSaur gains popularity. Notably, special Lucario actually struggles to damage it, and the physical sets aren't much better.

In regards to Genesect, I do think that it's fallen from grace somewhat. I've been using the Scarf set, and it's actually kinda difficult to pose the huge offensive threat that Genesect is known for. There are so many types running around, and a surprising increase in the number of Pokes that can wall it that it's become harder to use.

Genesect now wants to be both physical and special simultaneously. A powerful U-turn, Iron Head, and Extremespeed are good, but it still needs power behind its Ice Beams and Flamethrowers - special Genesect isn't getting the Download boost as much, and the Base Power nerf of said coverage moves hurts too.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

I'd like to nominate Mega Venusaur for S+++ Rank.

I've been using this guy on my team, and...

Dear god, this thing is incredible. Just incredible!

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 54.9 - 64.8%

Look at this calc. Look at it! MegaZardY is no threat to MegaSaur at all. It can't even switch in:

4 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 34.2 - 40.6%

If Charizard tries to switch into MegaSaur (and believe me, a few have tried), Sludge Bomb 2HKOs with Leech Seed damage.

The thing I love most is the immunity to Trick. Aside from a burn, Rotom-W is hard countered. Genesect struggles to deal any significant damage, and really, unless you have a Psychic or Flying-type move you're not getting past MegaSaur.

I team mine up with a Sylveon for Heal Bell support and Slowbro for physical hits. It's just such a solid choice that you're at a disadvantage if you're NOT using one. I have to wonder how this will affect all of the other megas, especially as the word spreads and MegaSaur gains popularity. Notably, special Lucario actually struggles to damage it, and the physical sets aren't much better.

In regards to Genesect, I do think that it's fallen from grace somewhat. I've been using the Scarf set, and it's actually kinda difficult to pose the huge offensive threat that Genesect is known for. There are so many types running around, and a surprising increase in the number of Pokes that can wall it that it's become harder to use.

Genesect now wants to be both physical and special simultaneously. A powerful U-turn, Iron Head, and Extremespeed are good, but it still needs power behind its Ice Beams and Flamethrowers - special Genesect isn't getting the Download boost as much, and the Base Power nerf of said coverage moves hurts too.

Yeah, anyone arguing for M-Venusaur anywhere below S-rank is out of their minds. There is no mon in the game at the moment that is more difficult to break through than M-Venusaur. Its bulk, typing, ability and recovery options are just stupid good and an immunity to Toxic just puts it way out in front of any other defensive threat in the meta right now. If you're not running flying/psychic coverage (which isn't uncommon to not run) or a mon with a base attack on M-Mawile's level or say, Kyurem-B, good luck getting past this thing without stalling out Synthesis' PP or a crit.

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

Yup, Mega Venusaur is definatley a iron wall, hands down the best defensive Mega out there. (Why doesn't Aggron get any Reliable recovery? :( ) But how does Zard X handle Green Bean here?

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 320-378 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

So after a Dragon Dance Zard X is gonna dent Mega Venusaur quite a bit, but that's still impressive on Venusaur's part given that this particular one doesn't have Defense Investment. Mega Pinsir absolutely wrecks Mega Venusaur however, but you win some you lose some I suppose, most Pokemon have a exploitable Achilles Heel, and Mega Venusaur's is Flying and Psychic. Overall it's the best Defensive Mega and with it's suprisingly good Bulk, Mega Venusaur deserves no less then A in my humble opinion.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Yup, Mega Venusaur is definatley a iron wall, hands down the best defensive Mega out there. (Why doesn't Aggron get any Reliable recovery? :( ) But how does Zard X handle Green Bean here?

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 320-378 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

So after a Dragon Dance Zard X is gonna dent Mega Venusaur quite a bit, but that's still impressive on Venusaur's part given that this particular one doesn't have Defense Investment. Mega Pinsir absolutely wrecks Mega Venusaur however, but you win some you lose some I suppose, most Pokemon have a exploitable Achilles Heel, and Mega Venusaur's is Flying and Psychic. Overall it's the best Defensive Mega and with it's suprisingly good Bulk, Mega Venusaur deserves no less then A in my humble opinion.

I'm confused to whether you're agreeing for S or disagreeing for A since your post is not that clear at all

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

I'm confused to whether you're agreeing for S or disagreeing for A since your post is not that clear at all

Sorry about that, I'm aggreeing for S Rank but if Mega Venusaur were to be dropped from S I'd say it'd be no lower then A. Anyway, what else is notable that hasn't been brought up much? I'd say Noivern maybe would qualify for B- or below, Draco Meteor that hits through Subs hurts, and can also get rid of it's item to screw with the opponent via Switcheroo. It's got access to some hard hitting moves like Hurricane, but it's mediocre stats in everything bar Speed is troubling, as even with Specs it's Damage Output can be somewhat underwhelming.

 

[November Blue]

Sorry about that, I'm aggreeing for S Rank but if Mega Venusaur were to be dropped from S I'd say it'd be no lower then A. Anyway, what else is notable that hasn't been brought up much? I'd say Noivern maybe would qualify for B- or below, Draco Meteor that hits through Subs hurts, and can also get rid of it's item to screw with the opponent via Switcheroo. It's got access to some hard hitting moves like Hurricane, but it's mediocre stats in everything bar Speed is troubling, as even with Specs it's Damage Output can be somewhat underwhelming.

85 / 80 / 80 bulk is not mediocre - especially on something as fast and powerful as Noivern. 97 base Attack might not be huge and overpowered, but it still hits hard. I'd actually rate Noivern a solid A rank. It's fast, powerful, extremely disruptive with U-turn, Frisk, and Switcheroo, has high Base Power STAB moves, great coverage, is a great scout, and can use resisted hits as switchin opportunities quite easily.

On top of that, it gets Taunt, Roost, Super Fang, ect. Remember, it's a specially-oriented Dragon-type Crobat. Noivern's only problem is that it was dragged down with the rest of the "fast frail attackers" because of all the bulky offense and priority.

 

[Rotosect]

Yeah, anyone arguing for M-Venusaur anywhere below S-rank is out of their minds.

No we're not. M-Venusaur is extremely overhyped and requires a massive amount of support to be useful. It auto-loses against anything with Taunt, its offensive options are resisted by everything and their mother, it's extremely vulnerable to passive damage from hazards and burn, it's Talonflame/M-Pinsir/Kyurem-B bait and it's outright horrendous against Substitute users in general.
The Megasaur defense force needs to stop looking at it with rose-tinted lens because it's a seriously flawed pokemon and it's not even close to the other S-rank pokemon.
A rank is where it belongs, not any higher. Let's end this pointless circlejerk.

 

[Numera]

No we're not. M-Venusaur is extremely overhyped and requires a massive amount of support to be useful. It auto-loses against anything with Taunt, its offensive options are resisted by everything and their mother, it's extremely vulnerable to passive damage from hazards and burn, it's Talonflame/M-Pinsir/Kyurem-B bait and it's outright horrendous against Substitute users in general.
The Megasaur defense force needs to stop looking at it with rose-tinted lens because it's a seriously flawed pokemon and it's not even close to the other S-rank pokemon.
A rank is where it belongs, not any higher. Let's end this pointless circlejerk.

i couldnt read that.It doesnt require massive support at all. Sure, it likes support, as does every pokemon, but unlike some, it needs little-no support. Its also not very vunreble to passive damage either. It cant be toxiced and can heal of burn damage with sythesis and leech seed. it can also break subs pretty easily with sludge bomb/giga drain, unless said sub user is steel(little) or poison (little). There are bearly any flaws for mega saur and all of them are made up for by its pros. A rank says a pokemon may need free turns and isnt too consistant always. Mega Venu doesnt need free turns and is extreamly consistant and versitile and is easily S rank. It walls a huge portion of OU. Nearly all of it.

 

[Monte Cristo]

No we're not. M-Venusaur is extremely overhyped and requires a massive amount of support to be useful. It auto-loses against anything with Taunt, its offensive options are resisted by everything and their mother, it's extremely vulnerable to passive damage from hazards and burn, it's Talonflame/M-Pinsir/Kyurem-B bait and it's outright horrendous against Substitute users in general.
The Megasaur defense force needs to stop looking at it with rose-tinted lens because it's a seriously flawed pokemon and it's not even close to the other S-rank pokemon.
A rank is where it belongs, not any higher. Let's end this pointless circlejerk.

No just, no, just nope-ity nope nope nope. If you haven't seen Fuzznip 's amazing post on page 6, educate yourself :>>. On a more serious note, have people bashing this thing even tried it? It's one of the most versatile bulky offense/sdef wall/physical wall/tanks in the tier. It can even run a mildly rare offensive set like gen 5 celebi that abuses it's bulky offensive stats and sleeping abilities which make it a freakin threat to predict how to tank hits from *252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 255-301 (71.2 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, not saying top offensive threat in the most orthodox way, but something mildly bulky as garchomp taking ~80% from leaf storm is fucking amazing, and garchomp is a very nice representation of a mildy specially bulky typical offense mon, but for assurity, here are some other calcs using LeafStorm/Sleep/HPfire/SludgeBomb:
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 292-344 (103.1 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Scizor: 224-264 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 332-392 (96.5 - 113.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 154-183 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock *SR breaks multiscale
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-T: 169-199 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 184-218 (65.4 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 270-318 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 244-288 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
etc.
Not to mention "This isn't even my final form bro" aka, this isn't even it's best set, it still has 2 premiere defensive sets: physically defensive and specially defensive, and MULTIPLE variations of them too. Sure you can switchin ferro if you predict it to be special defensive and go for the leech seed or sleep.... and then you absorb the sleep, then get HP fired, and do nothing in return other than: 1)do ~20% with gyro 2)set up 1 hazard of your choice while you happen to have 20%-30% hp left left even if you switch out after the initial HP fire. You can also switchin, say, kazam, lati@s or espeon and get your item knocked off by the knock off variation of the defensive set. Overall mega venusaur forces you to play mind games, and if you don't play them, your team could pay the consequences, HEAVILY. And no, scarf/sub Kyurem B doesn't even force the fuckin bold set out!
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 165-195 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 37.1% chance to 2HKO
the only threatening set to mega venu is the mixed set with LO or the banded set, yes they do give it heavy pressure and damage, but only kyurem-b can switch in(with SR off the field) with little to no fear of any variation(252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 210-247 (70.4 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 210-247 (70.4 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 210-247 (70.4 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). In my opinion mega venu is as S as mega lucario (may be not as much but come on it deserves the S, it's working 18 hours a day 7 days a week trying to support it's little bulbasaurs at home so they can go to OU when they grow up :<, help a struggling mega venu out every day by donating to the 'mega venu for S' charity, thank you)

 

[acestriker19]

I would like to nominate Crawdaunt for B-
Pros
Because although it might not be "ou" this gen it is very viable. What changes it from last gen is the fact that it now got 3 very important things this gen 1. Priority in the form of aqua jet which allows it to tie for most powerful water priority with azu and allows it to revenge a lot of things while also patching up its biggest problem last gen its speed. 2. The steel nerd which allows it to not be walled by a bunch of steel types this gen (such as ferrothorn) and gives him much broader type coverage type coverage options. This also made ghost types more viable which he resits and can often come in and set up on. 3. The knock off buff which gives him a very good strong stab dark type move which is also arguably the hardest move to switch into in the game. Further more this move allows him to cripple a lot of his would be counters and hit harder then most pokemon in the entire game (including ubers)
Cons
Some of crawdaunts flaws are its very low speed even after a boost and with priority and speaking of priority he is weak to many common priority attacks such as mach punch and vacuum wave and gen be checked by most fighting types and he is on the rather frail side too.

Overall while crawdaunt is not a perfect i think he is solid enough for B- and can work really well with some support.

Edit: he is also resistant to common priority such as bullet punch and sucker punch.

Crawdaunt would be good enough for a B- but is simply outshined by azumarill who runs a band better with superior bulk and the potential of it being belly drum azu really changes the way in which you can deal with it without risking the rest of your team to a +4 Azumarill sweep. Crawdaunt is definately excellent this gen with a buffed knock off and a more powerful aqua jet but with worse typing and way less defensive ability Crawdaunt is simply outclassed by Azumarill and unfortunately imo does not have any niche that azu doesn't fill.

That probably the reason why he doesn't have a OU analysis and therefore will not be ranked. If I could find the post that said this I would but I'm not bothering sifting though this entire thread.

 

[Rechi]

No we're not. M-Venusaur is extremely overhyped and requires a massive amount of support to be useful. It auto-loses against anything with Taunt, its offensive options are resisted by everything and their mother, it's extremely vulnerable to passive damage from hazards and burn, it's Talonflame/M-Pinsir/Kyurem-B bait and it's outright horrendous against Substitute users in general.
The Megasaur defense force needs to stop looking at it with rose-tinted lens because it's a seriously flawed pokemon and it's not even close to the other S-rank pokemon.
A rank is where it belongs, not any higher. Let's end this pointless circlejerk.

I hope they make an S+ rank with Mega Venusaur being the only one in it just to piss you off.

*continues to yank on glorious based mod peen*

 

[RufflesPro]

Why would Mega Venosaur be A? That thing is a monster once paired with a physical or Special wall (Depending on what set you are using), I run HP Rock with 252 HP / 72+ Def / 84 SpA / 100 SpD, that way you are surviving CB BB from Talonflame and Fire Blast from Mega Char Y, and the SpA investment means that you are OHKO-ing Talonflame w/ HP Rock. 2HKO-s Char Y but regardless it's a OHKO after SR.

And if you want this thing to counter genesect, just give it HP Fire instead, and rely on Sludge Bomb for Talonflame (2HKO) & Char Y (3HKO)

The thing I like about Mega Venosaur is that, you can make it a counter to almost anything just by playing with the EVs and what HP you carry.