XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[DiscoDucky]

Sigilyph... Eh. I have not seen it in a really long time (well except on the lower ladder where people still don't use it correctly...) but I still believe it has some utilities on certain teams due to its own versatility. If I had to make an educated guess here based on my own theorymon-ing here, which admittedly is shaky af due to my lack of knowledge on it, I'd say it belongs in B- rank.

Now I'm not sure exactly what its best set is, but I know it's pretty tough to put a stop to its Cosmic Power set (or even its CM set) once it accumulates several boosts (presumably 2/3+ CPs), and quite frankly, it has tons of opportunities to set up its boosts. However, with swift action, Sigilyph can be easily dispatched using a very strong attacker like LO/Specs Hydreigon or CB Victini (two common 'mons; mega Houndoom also completely fucks it over if no coverage outside of Stored Power), as with zero/one boosts, its defenses still aren't that great enough to withstand powerful SE hits.

Sigilyph also has the moveset to pull off a LO offensive set, but it faces a lot of competition from Specially based Victini in that compartment. Victini has the coverage to match/beat that of Sigilyph's and not to mention, the slight speed difference in this case is pretty fucking important. However, its ability to avoid recoil damage from LO as well as avoiding the 25% from rocks due to Magic Guard is enough to give its niche as an attacker, although its offensive sets are not really what I'd base its ranking off of.

Overall, I believe its boosting sets is enough to warrant a B- rank due to the great potential it has, but I'm not completely sure about it.

Oh, and I'll be on Showdown in like 18 hours. See you guys then.

Well to be frank, Blissey and some other choice Defensive Pokemon can't do anything back to it at all because of Magic Guard. Also, it has a pseudo-WoW with Flame Orb + Psycho Shift, which deters Physical attackers from switching in. I'd honestly say B is perfectly fine for it.

Although CM/CP + Stored + Roost is fairly standard, the last slot allows for a bit of variation. It does have a large enough Special movepool to nail some of its checks. Ice Beam and Dazzling Gleam fucks up Hydreigon and the latter does the same to Houndoom. Air Slash is just good to hit stuff neutrally. Also, regarding Victini:
+3 4 SpA Sigilyph Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 192-227 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 4 SpA Sigilyph Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 166-196 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

Though Speed tiers is a completely different issue (thus Victini and a bunch of other Scarfers that run Knock Off). He's easily RKed by said threats without the Cosmic Power set. It's a strong sweeper/stallbreaker, but it's easily revenge killed. B is best for it.

 

[Limitless]

Master of Slowking, Meru. I need your input.

 

[Meru]

lol I'd hardly call myself master of Slowking, but it does make a cool choice over Slowbro sometimes, as Assault Vest can actually take on NP Ape, Nidos, and a few others while still holding up against some Fire-types. However, the loss of physical bulk is kinda noticable. It's 2HKO'd by Bandtini's V-create after SR, and almost straight up OHKO'd by Bolt Strike. It doesn't survive against +2 Lucario's Crunch, it has to switch out after taking a Knock Off from LO Mienshao, so a lot of those things really put a damper in its viability.

I have seen some people use Trick Room with it to an okay success too. I think it'd be cool in B-

 

[Limitless]

Sigilyph is moving down to C rank, while Slowking is moving down to B- rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Swampert and Tornadus.

 

[canasian]

Swampert seems like a B+ 'mon to me. Bulky offense and balance are among the best team archetypes in UU right now and it's a natural fit for both, with enough bulk to check some attackers (though it lacks the recovery to do so repeatedly) and just enough attacking power to threaten them back. And while it's special attack isn't exactly great, it can still run Scald to deter physical attackers from trying to set up on it.

I have no experience with Tornadus in UU; from playing with Whimsicott for the past couple days I can say that priority Tailwind is a really cool niche and it has nice coverage but special/mixed sets lack a decent STAB. An itemless Acrobatics set akin to his Therian forme's could be interesting with Defiant to discourage Defog, but it loses out on that set's two biggest selling points, with a much less stellar speed tier and lacking Regenerator to let it switch in and out repeatedly. Interested to hear from people who have more experience with this guy.

 

[Sage]

I'd say Tornadus has a niche in that he is one of the best rain setters and he can abuse Hurricane then, while also being a strong Defog blocker and can run some nasty Bulk Up sets. That seems like enough for B or B-. Also he still is pretty fast outspeeding all the Fighting Types in the tier making him a good check. Lack of a STAB outside of losing his item or being in Rain hurts him a lot.

EDIT: forgot about mixed set is go B+

 

[Meru]

Tornadus is seriously underrated right now. Prankster Tailwind ensures a speed boost to the rest of the team, which got a lot better with slower stallbreakers like SD Haxorus. The mix set is able to cleanly 2HKO Aromatisse with Hurricane while Blissey can't switch into Superpower. Florges can stand up to it but it has been on the decline lately. I think its great Speed tier, unique typing, and ability to abuse Prankster put it smack dab at A-

Swampert should also be B+ at the very least, and probably A-, as it's fitting well on a lot of balance cores lately, and provides a nice SR setter and Aero check in one.

 

[godsagirl]

Nominating Trevenant for B rank if not B+
Used as a tank with Harvest ability and lum berry, it can rest all hp back and make status moves useless, with no downside, can give it will-o-wisp and leech seed and stall for a long time....

 

[allij021]

Nominating Sheddy for C-. Wonder Guard + Endure + Weakness Policy is a combo that, when used right, is fairly useful.

 

[Schpoonman]

Has anyone been running the itemless Tornadus set? He hits harder, though he is slower and doesn't have Regenerator or Tornadus-T's bulk. He's also got the benefit of Prankster and a decent support movepool, the two standout options being Taunt and Tailwind.

 

[Jacks0n]

As said by Meru i would put torn in A-. I used it on an offensive team as a mixed attacker w/ tailwind and I was really impressed. I had hurricane and superpower for stabs and then tailwind, then u-turn to catch switch ins. It's got good speed, good power and it's ability lets it clutch a tone of wins with prankster tailwind.

Edit: I also tried a sub BU set and I really liked it, it could set up on things like mew so easily.

 

[Empress]

I don't use itemless Tornadus, but it turns out that Sitrus Berry does essentially the same thing. He is seriously underrated and unpredictable- he can be physical or special depending on your team's needs, he discourages Defog (even though it's less common than Rapid Spin in UU) with Defiant, or he can be a supporter with Prankster. Most importantly he learns Knock Off as well. Granted, his frailty and a bad defensive typing hold him back quite a bit, as does his lack of reliable STAB. And just barely under speeding Raikou is never good either. But Tornadus' versatility should merit him a spot in at least B+.

 

[KM]

sitrus berry doesn't do essentially the same thing, it requires that you get hit first before you attack (which given that you're frail and 111 speed can hardly be seen as a given).

But tornadus has been underrated for a long time, and i honestly feel as though i was one of the only people who even used him. the defiant set is really cool on HO teams, and the prankster set is like offensive whimsicott, but with much better offensive presence. There are a lot of good and underused sets for tornadus (restochesto bulk up is fun, rain dance tailwind double boost + mega-blastoise water spout is the stupidest thing ever), and he's just an awesome all-around poke.

that said I'd put him at B+ instead of A- because he really isn't _that_ easy to fit into teams. he doesn't offer a whole ton defensively (although his typing is quite nice), so he mainly finds a team on offensive hazard-based teams that need a way to punish defog (or as a set-up mon on HO teams). Tornadus is still incredible, it's just not versatile enough to be in the A ranks.



Swampert, on the other hand.... should easily be A-. Swampert is the hardest counter to Mega-Aerodactyl, which instantly makes it extraordinarily viable. it also fares very well against a slew of other massive threats in the tier, and its good mixed bulk and high HP and Attack allow it to take on virtually anything 1v1 that doesn't have a grass move. having a SR setter that is part water type is pretty insane as he has a great matchup against almost every other SR setter (think Donphan, Krook, Forry (sorta), Hippo, Rachi...). being a mixed attacker is awesome too - and Swampert does have viable offensive options (Band, mostly) that are quite surprising and effective.

Swampert is invaluable to bulky offensive teams due to his incredible typing and impressive stats. he manages to become the perfect "balanced" Pokemon - great stats all around the board (even Spe isn't that bad for a fully defensive poke), incredible typing, mixed attacking, and access to a support movepool that features Stealth Rock and Roar. so easy to fit on any team, and is probably one of the most reliable pokes in the tier. B is far too low.

 

[Limitless]

Swampert is moving up to A- rank, while Tornadus is moving up to B+ rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Virizion and Yanmega.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Virizion is a really cool Pokemon atm. The SD set is really nice, as Virizion gets pretty good coverage in its STAB moves, being able to spam CC to do nice damage, while it can break through Slowbro with Leaf Blade, which is awesome. This also allows it to hit Suicune and Alomomola hard, while hitting Aromatisse neutrally. Between STABs and Stone Edge, Virizion is quite capable of sweeping. I've heard about a Synthesis+3 Attacks set, which I have yet to use, but it looks pretty promising as a Hydreigon check. Speaking of which, Virizion's impressive special bulk is really nice too. This makes it a sweeper that can't be owned by Scarf Hydreigon, which is great. It's good at sweeping and also has nice utility mid-game too. Overall a pretty cool mon. B would be fine for it imo, and I wouldn't mind if it moved up to B+, it's pretty cool rn.

Yanmega I haven't used since the beginning of the generation, so I don't have much to say about it. It has cool things going for it with the Speed Boost cleaner set and the Specs set, although either way it is basically hard walled by Blissey, who is one of the most dominant threats in the tier. Speed Boost sets do nicely against offense imo, not many Pokemon on offense can really beat it, and Specs seems cool if you can remove Blissey from play. That said, I haven't used it much if at all, so I guess I really don't have a right to say much else lol.

Just my thoughts.

 

[President Shinra]

Yeah, I'd definitely move up Virizion, given it wrecks the two best walls in the tier, and can beat a lot of the drops. B+ seems good.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I think Virizion should be B or B+ because its typing destroys a few common wall cores, such as Slowbro + Blissey, Slowbro + Umbreon, and Cofag + Special Wall.

It's natural special defense lets it eat up hits like shadow ball and the works, while being able to benefit from a knock off from a weak mon. Virizion can also run mixed since it has a good special move pool, having moves such as giga drain, focus blast, and synthesis to heal up. It is forced out by flying types such as crobat, but overall, I think it can pull its own weight by being a special pivot while still being able to put offensive pressures on all the bulky waters in the tier.

 

[chimpact]

Ya virizion is a VERY solid pokemon. It in a great speed tier, has pretty good typing defensively, amazing offensive typing, but unfortunately the rest of its stats aren't in the right places. It has amazing special defense, but it can't really come in on any special attacker other than crocune [and thts if it has a lum berry]. Slowbro it risks having psyshock, roserade can sludge bomb, shaymin has airslash/gleam/psychic etc. It can take a hit when its up against them 1v1, but it cannot switch in.

Its ability to beat a lot of pokemon 1v1 is great though. Grass/Fighting coverage is nothing short of amazing, and the grass / poison types that resist can catch a zen headbutt. crobat is one of the best pokemon in the tier, but it has to play cautiously against virizion because of its coverage moves.

I think it's a solid B/B+ because it beats up on a lot of stall and all those common bulky waters. Unfortunately a lot of common pokemon like victini/crobat can beat it 1v1 :[

 

[Meru]

Virizion is one of the few set-up sweepers that isn't forced out by Scarf Hydreigon, while being able to break most defensive cores, and can even get past Aromatisse if weakened enough. Has problems being weak without a boost, and being hard forced out by the three fast flyers (Crobat, Aero, Noivern) but it's definitely way better in this meta than the last. B+ at the least.

252 SpA Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 188-222 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[dingbat]

Yay, I can use mini-sprites again :D

Virizion should stay in B rank right below its fellow muskateer Cobalion; it's pretty underrated in this meta atm yet it brings its unique set of characteristics to the table. Being able to check a wide range of threats ranging between defensive 'mons like Suicune/Swampert to Offensive 'mons like Hydra and (choiced) Krook is pretty cool, considering the fact that pretty much no other 'mon can check nearly the exact same threats that Virizion can to its extent. Although its [Physical] coverage can be shaky at times due to the lingering choice between Zen Headbutt (for psn types) and Stone Edge (for certain fire types), it is still able to pull its own weight a majority of the time, especially on Bulky Offense teams.

Ranking Virizion below Cobalion because Cobalion overall has a little more utility than Virizion has, but sharing the B+ rank isn't a reach either.

 

[Sage]

Yanmega for B. It has a really solid Choice Specs set, which with Tinted Lens has very limited switch ins. Spamming Bug Buzz is easy as all 4x Resists to Bug Buzz are hit at least neutrally by Air Slash. 95 speed isn't bad for a Specs user, and he beats Rose, Krook, Nidos, Heracross, tying Darmanitan. Speed Boost lets him do well against more offensive teams, though Sharpedo is arguably a slightly better pure cleaner since he can go mixed. Downsides to Yanmega are: he can't break dedicated Special Walls not weak to his STABs, IE Blissey, Florges, P2. Stealth Rocks fucking murder him, I would go B+ or A- w/o this, quite amazing he's still a good poke. Luckily UU has a plethora of Defoggers and Spinners, so that helps. Also U-turn can be run for momentum purposes on Specs set since he need coverage kek I suck the whole point of Specs I no coverage needed, getting in your stops to Special Walls. Good Poke, deserves B imo.

Also I wanna nom Shiftry for C+/B- since I saw him recently added to C-. me and Watfor (mahmudkipz on forums) built a team using him as a offensive defogger and it worked suprisingly well. Going mixed helps him a ton, and his Sucker Punch hurts with adamant max attack. STAB Knock Off rocks, and Leaf Storm does well against most physical walls. Downside is frail as shit and while his typing is awesome offensively, it's awful defensively. Swords Dance is OK too, so I think he has a niche in the meta.

 

[kokoloko]

i kinda feel like we should move blissey down to A+ or even A...

not only is it /the/ poster boy for free turns (which means by definition it shouldn't be S rank), but it kinda comes with a really bad small print that reads "if you use me, you can't use anything but stall/defensive balance" which is fucking terrible in this meta.


i also kinda think heracross should be S lol. i mean its /only/ flaw is its below average speed, which in all honestly isn't even that big a flaw. if it was like 95+ it'd probably be banned or OU lol. its one of the top 2-3 wallbreakers in the tier and it has pretty awesome typing, both defensively and offensively. heracross alone forces people into funky situations when teambuilding because you can't just slap a bulky psychic/ghost type on the team and call it a day while its around.

 

[President Shinra]

i kinda feel like we should move blissey down to A+ or even A...

not only is it /the/ poster boy for free turns (which means by definition it shouldn't be S rank), but it kinda comes with a really bad small print that reads "if you use me, you can't use anything but stall/defensive balance" which is fucking terrible in this meta.


i also kinda think heracross should be S lol. i mean its /only/ flaw is its below average speed, which in all honestly isn't even that big a flaw. if it was like 95+ it'd probably be banned or OU lol. its one of the top 2-3 wallbreakers in the tier and it has pretty awesome typing, both defensively and offensively. heracross alone forces people into funky situations when teambuilding because you can't just slap a bulky psychic/ghost type on the team and call it a day while its around.

I'd have to agree with most of this. I would still say A+ for Blissey, as even if it does force you into the stall playstyle it is really good at shutting down special attackers. Given, what kokoloko said about free turns is totally correct, and it is also easy setup fodder for things like SubCM Chandy. Despite this, I still think A+, as in expert hands it is still just as good at shutting down pure special attackers.

As for Heracross, I also agree with that. Having used both CB and SD Hera, I can say that they are truly fearsome wallbreakers, especially if you can get them in for a Guts boost. S sounds good to me.

 

[Limitless]

Heracross is moving up to S rank. I'm not moving Blissey down for now, as I really don't think it should. Just because more defensive teams are less viable doesn't really mean Blissey should move down. Fact is, Blissey is a staple on nearly every defensive team due to its ability to wall nearly every special attacker in the metagame. I'm also not interested in metagame shifts that are temporary. However, if this metagame shift becomes more permanent, then yes, I'll consider it.

I'm also considering putting Lucario in S rank.

Virizion is staying at B rank, while Yanmega is moving down to C rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Zoroark and Archeops.

 

[canasian]

I disagree with Lucario being S rank. He's obviously an amazing 'mon in the tier and arguably metagame-defining, but I don't feel like when I'm building teams I specifically say "okay, I need this specific Pokemon/move/item to make sure I'm not Lucario-weak" the way I do for Victini, Heracross, Hydreigon or even Blissey to a lesser extent.

Don't have much experience with either of Zoroark or Archeops. Zoroark seems neat but I'm not sure Archeops even has a real niche in the tier.