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Zangoose (Revamp) [QC 2/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Pkn range6, May 30, 2013.

  1. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

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    Code:
    [LIST]
    [*]Finalize skeleton [x]
    [*]Get 2 QC check [x]
    [*]Write up analysis [x]
    [*]Get 3rd QC check []
    [*]Proofread again before giving to GP []
    [*]Get 2 GP check then get ready for uploading []
    [/LIST]
    
    [pimg]335[/pimg]
    Looks bad ass

    [Overview]

    <p>Zangoose has always been mediocre compared to other Normal-types such as Tauros, Swellow, and Kangaskhan prior to gaining its Dream World ability, Toxic Boost. With this ability, Zangoose becomes a fearsome wall breaker and is blessed with perfect coverage. Furthermore, Zangoose has access to Swords Dance and known for being able to almost OHKO the entire tier after a boost. Zangoose misses out on the base 95 Speed, but fortunately Zangoose's Quick Attack can take out Jynx after Stealth Rock and come close to -1 Primeape. Unfortunately, Zangoose is quite the frail Pokemon and does not like to take a neutral hit even making Toxic Orb difficult to activate sometimes. Zangoose is hindered even more by being on a timer because of Toxic Orb and a tier full of priority for example, Gurdurr and Skuntank. There is competition from the fellow status abusers, Swellow and Ursaring, the former being faster, but less coverage and the latter can be fast or strong, but Zangoose possesses both traits. Nonetheless, never belittle Zangoose as it can sweep entire teams with the right support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Facade
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Night Slash
    move 4: Quick Attack
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Toxic Boost
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set acts as a wall breaker since it's able to break down NU's sturdiest walls. Facade becomes insanely powerful move after Toxic Orb is activated, reaching 210 BP factoring in STAB. Close Combat adds into Zangoose's coverage hitting the Rock- and Steel-types such as Golem, Regirock, and Probopass that all resist Facade. Night Slash completes Zangoose's coverage, as it is able to hit the common Ghost-types, Golurk and Misdreavus, who would otherwise be able to switch freely into Zangoose's Close Combat or Fa├žade. Finally, Zangoose has access to Quick Attack and allows him to pick off weakened, faster opponents such as Jynx and Primeape.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>An Adamant nature on the other hand, allows Zangoose to OHKO max HP Miltank and Shell Smash Carracosta with Stealth Rock support and 2HKO Alomomola, Tangela, and offensive Regirock. However, a Jolly nature is preferred because it allows Zangoose to speed tie with Kangaskhan and outspeed positived nature 80's such as Gardevoir. With that said, entry hazard support from Pokemon such as Dwebble, Golem, and Garbodor are recommended to get the crucial OHKOs and 2HKOs mentioned above.</p>

    <p>Protect could be used to guarantee Toxic Orb activation and if chosen use it over Quick Attack so Zangoose still has perfect coverage. Zangoose enjoys slow Volt Switch from users such as Eelektross, so it can activate its Toxic Orb without having to take a hit or relying to take down the opponent. Eelektross also can take care of Alomomola and Tangela, the former being able to Toxic stall Zangoose and the latter can deal heavy damage with Giga Drain to it. Dark-types such as Skuntank can remove Ghost-types, as it allows Zangoose to freely spam Close Combat and Facade. Common Fighting-types such as Primeape and Gurdurr counter Zangoose cold; a Psychic-type such as Musharna makes a good teammate to take hits and can set up with Calm Mind against them. Late game sweepers such as Swords Dance Scolipede and Shell Smash Carracosta enjoy Zangoose's role as a wall breaker taking down their counters, which allows the two to successfully sweep.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Sword Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Quick Attack / Night Slash
    item: Toxic Orb
    abilty: Toxic Boost
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Zangoose's most threatening set as it can almost OHKO the entire tier after a boost. Factoring in Swords Dance, Zangoose hits 658 Attack with just a Jolly nature and 722 Attack with Adamant. A +2 Toxic Boosted Facade will OHKO the premier wall Alomomola and have a chance to OHKO Tangela, which is quite impressive. Close Combat will demolish any Rock- and Steel-types such as Bastiodon, Carracosta, and Gigalith. The fourth move decides on what Pokemon checks Zangoose. Quick Attack allows you to bypass faster Pokemon that try to revenge kill you, but then you're walled by Ghost-types. Night Slash permits you to hit Ghost-types, but then you're checked by faster Pokemon such as Primeape, Jynx, and Scolipede.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>To show you how fearsome Zangoose is after a Swords Dance with just a Jolly nature.
    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+2 Facade vs. 252/252+ Alomomola:97.8% - 115.2%</li>
    <li>+2 Facade vs. 240/252+ Musharna: 115.9% - 136.7%</li>
    <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 0/0 Primeape: 100% - 117.7%</li>
    <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 4/0 Gardevoir: 91.7 - 108.3%</li>
    </ul>
    Adamant nature and Swords Dance boost allows Zangoose to OHKO defensive Midreavus, Sawk, and Tangela with the appropriate move and Stealth Rock support. Again, Jolly nature allows you to speed tie with Kangaskhan and other Pokemon around this benchmark. If you opt to run Quick Attack on Zangoose, a Pursuit trapper such as Skuntank is recommended, so Ghost-types won't get in your way of sweeping. If you chose to run Nigh Slash you're vulnerable to faster Pokemon. Sawk, Charizard, and Gardevoir who all commonly carry scarf can check you. Tanks or walls such as Alomomola, Lickilicky, Golem, and Metang make good teammates as they can either counter those Pokemon or take a hit and strike back. Hazard support from Pokemon such as Scolipede, Piloswine, Roselia, and Golem are recommended. With just Stealth Rocks, Zangooses's +2 Quick Attack can have a chance to OHKO threats such as Scolipede, Sawsbuck, and Pinsir. Kangaskhan shares the common Fighting-type weakness, but has good synergy with Zangoose since Zangoose can remove all of Kangaskhan's counters and allows Kangaskhan to clean up late game.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Zangoose has a few other options, but you should generally be running the standard moveset. Pursuit allows you to trap fleeing Ghost- and Psychic-types, although it's ideally better to just run Night Slash. Double Kick allows you to break some Substitute, but the power drop is very noticeable from Close Combat. Zangoose has access to all of the elemental punches, except they don't add extra coverage. The only notable one is Ice Punch which allows you to OHKO Altaria and Torterra. Zangoose has access to a wonderful special movepool with powerful moves such as Fire Blast, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt, but they're unusable because of Zangoose's low base 65 Special Attack. Final Gambit with max HP will generally allow you to take down one Pokemon, but that wastes Zangoose's potential. Taunt is interesting because it'll stop walls such as Alomomla and Musharna from recovering health. Finally, other items such as Choice Band, Life Orb, Choice Scarf, and Silk Scarf can replace Toxic Orb if you can predicate a Toxic.

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Not many Pokemon can straight up counter Zangoose, but Metang is a perfect counter since it isn't weak to Close Combat and can take down Zangoose with Meteor Mash. Any bulky Pokemon such as Gurdurr, Golurk, and Piloswine all can take a unboosted hit then strike back with their STABs. Furthermore, faster Pokemon that can take a Quick Attack can check Zangoose, for example Tauros, Scolipede, and Haunter. Priority users such as Carracosta, Kangaskhan, Swellow, and Golem can take down a weakened Zangoose. Walls such as Tangela and Alomomola can take on Zangoose one-on-one, the former being able to take any hits and striking back with a Giga Drain and the latter has the ability to Toxic stall Zangoose, but must be wary of Swords Dance.</p>

    Show Hide

    [Overview]
    • Mediocre before gaining its DW ability Toxic Boost
    • Excellent wall breaker plus with its Perfect coverage and it almost 2HKOs the entire tier after SR.
    • Access to SD making it fearsome sweeper.
    • Frail Pokemon, generally does not like taking a neutral hit and priority moves do a lot to Zangoose. Also its sometime hard to activate Toxic Orb because of its frail defences.
    • Slight competition from Swellow and Ursaring, the former being faster, but less coverage and the latter more stronger, but less Speed.

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Facade
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Night Slash
    move 4: Quick Attack
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Toxic Boost
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • After Toxic Orb activates Facade hits 210 BP after STAB and can 2HKO many walls such as Alomola, Tangela and Misdreavus after SR
    • Close Combat smashes Steel- and Rock-types such as Golem, Regiock, and Probopass.
    • Night Slash hits any Ghost-types that try to switch in on CC or Facade such as Golurk, Misdreavus, and Driftblim.
    • Quick Attack allows you to pick off frail and faster Pokemon such as Primape, Jynx, and Kadabra. It also bypass slower priority user such as Skunktank.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Jolly nature allows you to speed tie with Kangaskhan and Pokemon around the same benchmark such as Gardevoir.
    • With an Adamant nature and SR gives you a chance to OHKO max HP Milktank, SS Carracosta, SS Torkal, Tangela while 2HKOing Alomomola and offensive Regirock without SR. (was having troubles finding convincing calcs. Tell me if i need to change them)
    • Enjoys hazard support from Pokemon such as Dwebble, Golem, and Garbodor to get those crucial 2HKOs and OHKOs mentioned above.
    • Protect could be used to guarantee to activate Toxic Orb, if chosen use it over QA.
    • Enjoys slow Volt Switch from users such as Eelektross, so it can activate its Toxic Orb without having to take a hit. Eelektross can also take care of Alomomola and Tangela who can potentially Toxic stall Zangoose.
    • Dark-types such as Skunktank can remove Ghost-types, as it allows Zangoose to freely spam CC and Facade.
    • Since common Fighting-types such as Primape and Gurdurr counter Zangoose, Musharna makes a good teammate since it can take hits and set up with Calm Mind.
    • Late game sweepers such as SD Scolipede and SS Carracosta enjoy Zangoose's role as a wall breaker.

    [SET]
    name: Sword Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Quick Attack / Night Slash
    item: Toxic Orb
    abilty: Toxic Boost
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • After SD boost it allows you to virtually almost OHKO any Pokemon after SR bar Ghost-types.
    • With SD factored in Zangoose hits 658 Attack with Jolly nature and with a Toxic Boosted Facade only few Pokemon can survive a hit.
    • CC dents any Rock- and Steel-types that resist Facade. Examples such as Carracosta, Gigalith, and Mawile.
    • The fourth move slots decides on which Pokemon can check you.
    • QA allows you to bypass some faster Pokemon, but then you're walled by Ghost-types
    • NS allows you to hit Ghost-types but then you're checked by faster Pokemon such as Scarf Sawk, Jynx, and Scolipede.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • To show you how fearsome Zangoose is after a SD boost with just a Jolly nature
      <ul class="damage_calculation">
      <li>+2 Facade vs. 252/252+ Alomomola:97.8% - 115.2%</li>
      <li>+2 Facade vs. 240/252+ Musharna: 115.9% - 136.7%</li>
      <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 0/0 Primeape: 100% - 117.7%</li>
      <li>+2 Quick Attack vs. 4/0 Gardevoir: 91.7 - 108.3%</li>
      </ul>
    • Again, Jolly nature can speed tie with Kangaskhan and other Pokemon around this benchmark.
    • Adamant and +2 allows Zangoose to OHKO defensive Misdreavus, Sawk, and Tangela with the appropriate move after SR.
    • Pursuit trappers such as Skunktank recommended if you opt to use QA.
    • If you choose to run NS you're vulnerable to faster Pokemon. Sawk, Charizard, and Gardevoir who all commonly carry scarf can check you. Tanks or walls such as Lickilicky, Alomomola, Golem, and Metang make good teammates as they can counter those Pokemon or take a hit and strike back.
    • Hazards from Pokemon such as Scolipede, Piloswine, Roselia, and Metang are recommended. With just Stealth Rocks, Zangoose's +2 QA can have a chance to OHKO threats such as Scolipede, Sawsbuck, and Pinsir to name a few.
    • Kangaskhan has good synergy with Zangoose since it removes all of its counters and allows Kangaskhan to clean up late game.

    [Other Options]
    • Pursuit to trap fleeing Ghost- and Psychic-types.
    • Double Kick to break subs, but power drop is very noticeable
    • Elemental punches. None provide any extra coverage, but Ice Punch allows you to deal more damage to Altaria and Torterra.
    • Wonderful special movepool with moves such as Fire Blast, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, but unusable because of its low base 65 Special Attack.
    • Final Gambit with max HP, but wastes Zangoose's potential.
    • Taunt stops walls such as Alomomola and Musharna from recovering health.
    • You could use Choice Band, Life Orb, Choice Scarf, and Silk Scarf if you can predicate a Toxic, but generally not worth it.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Metang can take any hit and strike back with a Meteor Mash
    • Choice Scarf Pokemon such as Primape, Sawk, and Rotom-S, but must be wary of QA
    • Bulky Pokemon such as Gurdurr, Golurk, and Piloswine all can take a hit and strike back with their STABs.
    • Basically anything that is faster than Zangoose and can take QA. Examples like Tauros, Scolipede, and Haunter.
    • Priority users such as Carracosta, Kangaskhan, Swellow, and Golem can take down weaken Zangooses.
  2. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
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    I'm not on QC, but having Swords Dance makes it a sweeper and having Night Slash makes it a wallbreaker. They play almost nothing alike tbh. Swords Dance also makes Zangoose a bit riskier to use in general, as opposed to not.

    Heck, Night Slash > Quick Attack is slightly viable on a Swords Dance set too, but overall IMO they play quite a bit differently, as that move choice can literally determine what walls it and what fails against it. I'd personally split it up but again it is up to QC.
  3. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

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    You made good points, but I'll let QC decide and now ready for checks!
  4. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87
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    I agree that night slash is more valuable on SD sets than quick attack, though you could just place a skuntank or any pursuit or ghost counter to get rid of ghosts. Though it usually does not work, a endure +salac berry + reversal deserves a comment, as it is stronger than close combat, only 10 BP weaker than toxic facade, and is faster.
  5. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    ya split it up for sure, full check will come when it is 2 different sets
  6. tennisace

    tennisace BAPBAPBAPBAPBAPBAP
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    So I was thinking about the nature of the first set for a bit, and it probably should be Adamant. Rotom-A /Pinsir is generally scarf, Sawk runs Scarf slightly more than Band but 50% are Adamant, and Gardevoir runs Scarf a lot too. If you're touting it as a wall breaker, it doesnt need to outspeed those middling threats since you can switch out and revenge with QA later.
  7. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

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    Alright should be ready for checks now. Split into two sets and personally I think the endure+salac berry with reversal too gimmicky.
  8. tennisace

    tennisace BAPBAPBAPBAPBAPBAP
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  9. Hollywood

    Hollywood sometimes I think I was born backwards
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    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (All Out Attacker)

    • Explain why you would use Jolly v. Adamant
    • When you talk about the possibility of using Protect, you would probably want to replace Quick Attack, so rather than saying you would have to replace "coverage moves," say you would miss out on priority
    • Entry hazard snippet, please do look for examples when you write it up

    [SET COMMENTS] (Swords Dance)

    • When you talk about Night Slash, Sawk doesn't outspeed it. Make sure you say Scarf Sawk here.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Swords Dance)

    • Once again, explain why you would use Adamant over Jolly
    • You can just use bulky walls for examples of things to check/counter faster Pokemon. Alomomola, Tangela, Lickilicky, etc. Tanks also work well here since they can actually fight back. Piloswine, Golem, etc. work for that.

    Otherwise, looks good. Make these changes and I'll stamp.
  10. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    id like to see Kanga added to the partners for the SD set in particular. This set is even more of a wallbreaker than the all-out attacker (i would argue that it more of a sweeper / cleaner). Kanga appreciates all of those mons being gone and makes its life a lot easier.

    You also still have SD in the all out attacker set comments :>, make sure that leaves before the write up~
  11. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

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    This should be ready for 2nd check now implemented all of the above.
  12. Hollywood

    Hollywood sometimes I think I was born backwards
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    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  13. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

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    Thanks, I'll start writing this week and I just have one more exam to write tomorrow~
  14. Pkn range6

    Pkn range6

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    This is written and ready to be looked at.
    @Cherub Agent made most of the changes thanks
  15. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent ium's cute friend
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    - Adamant still needs to be slashed over Jolly
    - I don't think you need to mention how Zangoose was prior to Toxic Boost in the Overview
    - I'd put in how Zangoose misses out on the 95 Speed tier, BUT it's almost guaranteed to OHKO Jynx with quick attack after stealth rock with jolly, and always with Adamant. It can also a -1 def primeape, so its Speed actually isnt as bad as one might think
    - in the ac of the second set you say that kanga is a good partner because it removes all of zangoose's counters, but it's the other way around :P
  16. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    You changed the main nature to Adamant, but in the AC of All-Out Attacker you still talk as if Jolly is the preferred nature.

    [Overview]
    I really want your Overview to just be your skeleton in paragraph form. There is no need for your first sentence, Zangoose has had Toxic Boost for almost a year now. Analyses should be written with the present in mind, not the past. Rewrite the second sentence then to: Zangoose is a fearsome wallbreaker thanks to its perfect coverage and Toxic Boost ability. When talking about getting Toxic Orb activated being hard, add how is Swords Dance hard to set up here as well. When talking about priority add Kanskhan and Carracosta. Make sure Kangaskhan is listed first, as its he most relevant user of priority in NU.

    You also make Zangoose sound like it completely outclasses Ursaring, which is not true. Instead of saying that Ursaring can be strong or fast, say that it can be stronger or faster than Zangoose, but that Zangoose possesses a mix of both.

    [Additional Comments] (All-Out Attacker)
    Primeape and Gurdurr do not counter Zangoose whatsoever. Primeape is OHKOed by Facade and Gurdurr is 2HKOed. Change their mention to being checks; Gurdurr can Mach Punch or live a hit and Drain Punch while Primeape outspeeds and KOes with Close Combat.

    [Set Comments] (Swords Dance)
    I want heavy emphasis that it's extremely hard to get off a Swords Dance on Zangoose, and that for the most that it's not really worth trying to set up. I don't like that you call it the most threatening, as it kind of implies that this is the best set, which it is far from.

    [Additional Comments] (Swords Dance)
    Honestly if you don't have Night Slash on Zangoose, a Pursuit trapper is basically required or Zangoose won't do much in the game. I'd like that mention to be modified to say that it is required.

    [Other Options]
    Double Kick is pretty dumb even for Other Options, so I would remove that. When talking about Ice Punch, both Altaria(every set) and Torterra(CB and Rock Polish) are OHKOed. So I would remove their mentions to just Tank Torterra. Also at the end add why having anything other than Toxic Orb is a bad idea; relying on the opponent having Toxic and switching Goose into a predicted one is way too hard and unlikely to be pulled off succesfully and not even close to being worth using another item.

    Implement and I'll stamp afterwords.
  17. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    Pkn Range hasn't been on in over a month. If anyone wants to take this over please let me know.

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