The Great Regional FRIENDLY Debate: Sinnoh vs. Hisui
| « Previous Article | Next Article » |
Lumari
With a new generation of Pokémon games, we're all caught up again in the eternal debate of which one of all of these regions was truly the best. And while, for legal reasons, we should of course add that this is one of those questions that don't have a singular correct answer, it does make for a great occasion to look back on what we've all enjoyed about these regions.
We've done series similar to this one last generation and the generation before as well, and to keep things fresh, we'll be changing things up a bit, where we're no longer reviewing every single region out there but also will be including a few regions from outside the mainline games. As a result, today we'll be comparing Sinnoh to past Sinnoh, better known as Legends: Arceus's Hisui!
| Daylight | heritage | Ivy | Lumari |
| Click on the images to read their thoughts! | |||
Who had the most interesting... plot and why?
Ivy
Diamond & Pearl, and especially Platinum, had a pretty fantastical plot for the time. Previously, legendary Pokémon weren't much more than local myths and legends, with the biggest in scope being local to the planet: continent-shaping Groudon/Kyogre and shy progenitor Mew. Suddenly, DP bring forth the most influential deities, controlling the very fabric of spacetime (sorry, Celebi). Cyrus's outlandish intent to forge a new universe is somehow a feasible goal with the power of these Pokémon. Team Galactic even commit acts of domestic terrorism with the bombing of Lake Valor, a radical feat not seen again in the Pokémon canon. Ultimately, though, the fate of the universe is restored with ease by the protagonist and the freed Lake Spirits. So, while some new precedents were established, the story is relatively cut and dry, compared to Legends: Arceus...
In Legends, Pokémon continues the recent trend of going ham on lore. Much of this is in the characters, and writing Arceus in as a key focus of the story furthers this with the protagonist being isekaied into the game from the modern day. Some familiar concepts from DPPt reappear, like the Red Chain controlling box legends—which now have new origin formes, much like Giratina. Seeing how this all ties in to the new story of your character's role in the survey corps is quite unique. There are not one but two fake out villains and a myriad of side characters who both interfere and help with your adventures. Why the Diamond and Pearl clans don't leave a more lasting legacy in-universe is anyone's guess. Thinking back on this a year later, the story is complex enough that I'm having a hard time keeping the details straight. This could be indicative of a bloated or poorly written game, but I'd say it's quite the opposite, with it being the more enticing narrative for today's gamers (especially compared side by side to the rerelease of DP in BDSP).
Who had the most interesting... characters and why?
Ivy
Gen 4 has some of the most memorable characters for sure, with Cynthia remaining prominent in the nightmares of many young Pokémon gamers—more on that later! She is one of the first to demonstrate a life outside of Championing; it's a welcome change that she introduces herself humbly as a standard Pokémon Trainer, makes herself involved in the mythos of the region, aids you in curing some paralyzed Psyduck, and even helps you through the closest thing to Hell in the Pokémon universe. Barry is the second of many happy-go-lucky rivals to come, but he carves a niche for himself with many ridiculous distorted-text THUD! impacts with the player. The player even harasses a random Grunt, chasing him halfway across the map. Somewhat impressive on its own, the same Grunt is then stationed at Mt. Coronet, expressing distress at having been obliterated by you twice. In general, many of the characters are given a good chance to make their impact in the region known. The player's mom even works at the contest hall as a judge!
Legends: Arceus seems to almost shuffle everyone's DNA around randomly into progenitors who seem all too similar to their descendants of a supposed 200 year future. Some characters have a direct lineage, with Cyllene as Cyrus, Kamado to Rowan, etc. Others are a strange chimera of continuum chicanery, with both Volo and Cogita having distinct Cynthia characteristics and Charm seemingly being comparable to both Agatha and Bertha. Again, it's rather tricky to keep them all in my head after so long. There aren't really any bad eggs that leave a negative impression other than perhaps exorbitantly rude Melli. I must admit that Legends has more characters who simply, on average, do more things than the more static DPPt games could afford, many quite literally following you through the five maps for various plot interactions. While it sounded like I had more glowing praise for DPPt characters, and my bias surely shows that I wanted them to win, I objectively can't place them over Legends; I suppose I'll leave it at a draw!
Both games are known for memorable boss battles; which game imagined them better? Which one was more imposing?
Ivy
To be frank, I'm not sure how many fights in DPPt could be considered bosses. This wasn't an explicit gameplay feature at the time, so it's pretty subjective of a definition; many tend to remember Cynthia for her piano-backed difficulty and (in Platinum) the distortion world Cyrus encounter. In some ways, Cynthia remains a more imposing figure due to the combination of nostalgia and her jumpscare reappearance in Unova. Her intrigue is enhanced due to her battle being the only place one will typically see a Spiritomb—with its Pokédex entry later being a requirement for entering the postgame in original DPPt.
However, this round belongs pretty soundly to Legends Arceus in my opinion. Being partially an action game, the player themself is involved in the battle against the ignoble noble boss Pokémon. This is not much more than a novelty for most of the game, with plenty of checkpoints facilitating accessibility for gamers who are used to Pokémon being slow in pace. However, the climax is a bit of a difficulty spike, and the postgame Arceus battle is essentially Pokémon's take on the Sans Undertale experience. Indeed, while Pokémon has many battles that can be considered difficulty spikes or otherwise challenging, proper boss fights are new to the last few generations, with Legends being among the first to put forth good effort in the concept.
Many locations in Hisui can be mapped to Sinnoh locations one-on-one; this makes for a dynamic where simultaneously Sinnoh is "future Hisui" and conversely Hisui is a reinterpretation of Sinnoh. How does this affect the experience of both games?
Ivy
Interestingly, I didn't find a lot of direct comparisons with-present day Sinnoh in Hisui. Even Celestic Town, a place described as having existed for centuries, is hardly established in PLA, and the Solaceon Ruins are naught but a hollow cube (likely due to how complicated it is to make cohesive cave networks in a proper 3D game). I would argue that Legends is perhaps depicting a separate timeline and subsequent alternate universe, which makes sense with Arceus having disrupted causality by yoinking the protagonist back in time. Instead, some literature in Scarlet & Violet heavily implies that the occurrences in Legends were pivotal in all of society learning to accept Pokémon as partners instead of fearsome beasts, and some Pokédex entries even mention how certain Pokémon like Stantler were able to evolve further in the past.
Nevertheless, it's still cool to see the cinematic parallels that do exist. Most of these are in the characters, as discussed earlier. Additionally, general physical geography is similar: the expansiveness of Mt. Coronet, the marshy mire of Pastoria, and especially the north area that would become Snowpoint—shoutout to the Snowpoint Temple remaining a key landmark across both games. Even the plot of the games is intended to be comparable: Volo vowed to make a new world with the power of the space-time trio, even if it would take "centuries" to accomplish, and his grudge seemingly manifested in Cyrus's ambitions.
Who had the most interesting... plot and why?
Daylight
Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum definitely come from an old era of Pokémon games where a “plot” was a minor concern. Sure, there're some bad guys with bad haircuts and a big bad guy that's super depressed and decided ending the world was better than therapy, but I think calling their saga in Sinnoh a “plot” is pretty generous. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I don't think the intention behind Sinnoh was to have a serious or engaging plot. Legends Arceus, on the other hand, makes noticeably more effort at a plot, between the Noble Pokémon mysteriously rampaging, the mysterious space time rift, and so on. Hisui wins.
Who had the most interesting... characters and why?
Daylight
This question is a little hard to answer because I undoubtedly enjoyed the characters of Legends Arceus more, but a part of what makes those characters so fun is that they reference back to characters from previous games—including, of course, Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum. When it comes down to it though, the only character from Sinnoh that left a lasting impression on me was Cynthia. In contrast, Hisui's cast was much more memorable. Palina, Iscan, Cyllene, Adaman, Professor Laventon, Beni, Cogita, Volo, and so many others left lasting impressions. I particularly enjoyed Palina and Iscan's secret romance as well as Palina's relationship with Lord Arcanine. Volo's mysterious maybe-immortality-slash-maybe-time-travel as well as his epic boss fight are on par with Cynthia's iconic Champion fight. Hisui is the clear winner.
Both games are known for memorable boss battles; which game imagined them better? Which one was more imposing?
Daylight
Volo's epic boss battle owes a LOT to Cynthia's Champion fight. It directly references her with an almost identical team composition and a battle theme that's a remix of Cynthia's encounter theme. One of my favorite details of Volo's fight is that his ace—the Fairy / Flying Togekiss, bringer of joy and peace—is basically the complete inverse of Cynthia's ace—the Dragon / Ground Garchomp, bringer of rage and ruin. His mysterious origins, knowledge of the ancient people of Sinnoh, his special in-battle guest star Giratina, and ominous parting words, do a lot to build up and make his boss battle grand and memorable. That being said, in the context of the late 2000s, Cynthia was probably the hardest in-game main story boss battle every created at the time, and her legacy rightfully remains in the hearts and minds of Pokémon fans. So while Volo's battle certainly has more modern gravitas, I think the only answer I feel good about giving here is to call it a tie.
Many locations in Hisui can be mapped to Sinnoh locations one-on-one; this makes for a dynamic where simultaneously Sinnoh is "future Hisui" and conversely Hisui is a reinterpretation of Sinnoh. How does this affect the experience of both games?
Daylight
Hisui benefits disproportionately here, as it gets to reap the benefits of both nostalgia and new updated formats and mechanics. It also is like… actually fun. My unpopular Pokémon opinion is that Sinnoh as it is in Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum is a bit of a slog and not actually that fun. In fact, I've replayed Platinum multiple times trying to enjoy the journey but it's never able to hold my interest. I'm pretty sure I've only ever battled Cynthia in Sinnoh one single time. In contrast, Hisui has super fun and engaging catching and crafting mechanics as well as easier but not uninteresting methods of travel, making it infinitely more enjoyable to traverse and explore. Hisui is the clear winner for me.
Who had the most interesting... plot and why?
Lumari
Oh dear, we're gonna have to talk about the plot to an open world game aren't we. Since an extensive plot is at some level incompatible with an open world (after all, how do you properly go from A to B to C when you keep those points intentionally jumbled up) I'm going to approach this one more from a "solving a static mission" angle. I will state upfront that I was really nervous going into this one because my main experience with open world games going into this one was Breath of the Wild, and somehow I am a huge Zelda fan who actually does not have a click with that game at all (and feels like she's a fake fan for it... but let's not go down that road here). However, while most of the plot here too is summarized by "explore, catch Pokémon, and work on your Dex", this game actually managed to establish a flow of play where I did feel like I was making actual progress by gradually completing areas and giving me characters to meet and bosses to beat so that I had stuff to do beyond the collectathon. And of course, when the game does end up reaching its climax there is room for some more conventional plot here; leaving aside my thoughts on the actual Volo battle for now, this very much was handled properly by more thoroughly exploring the one character you did meet rather often along the way but remained shrouded in mystery. This is certainly not a plot-heavy game but I would not remotely have expected that anyways going in, and I genuinely did enjoy the mission that it gave me. Nothing more that I can ask for really.
As far as Sinnoh goes, I've written about Cyrus before, so I'll keep this concise, but his arc is actually a big reason why Sinnoh is tied for my favorite region overall. I am once absolutely again not here to defend his depth as a character, which I agree would be a losing battle, but thankfully that's not what this question is about anyways; the extremely extended plotline that starts off with Barry's rescue mission after Canalave Library, takes you through blizzards while reducing an entire Gym to little more than a mandatory hiccup to get to rescuing your friend, and ends all the way up to mythical center of the region right into one of the best and most surreal locations the franchise has ever seen is what will always define this region to me. Everything before this point does a fine enough job leading into this by Pokémon game standards, and it's an incredible climax.
Who had the most interesting... characters and why?
Lumari
As we all know, Unova was when Pokémon games started to try giving real depth to their characters, and unfortunately even I can't deny that Sinnoh had missed that cut just yet. Despite how well the story fits Cyrus as a boss battle, people have said enough about his (lack of) depth as a character, and there's not really anyone to make up for that. The Gym Leaders, Galactic Admins, and everyone else are genuinely well designed, but other than Cynthia popping up repeatedly, the only character that actually matters for the progression of the game is the player.
For all its strenghts, its characters are not the main thing I'll end up remembering Hisui for. I can't exactly put negatives into words more clearly than "other things left more of an impression", though, since they were overall serviceable for sure, and similarly to Sinnoh, the professor and Wardens (those without a five-letter name starting in M, that is) had pleasant enough personalities to be around. The one area Hisui stands out in is that it does lets its characters actually advance the plot in ways other than "evil team leader does evil team things", with Volo and Kamado's bait and switches not being the kind of thing I would've seen in an early Pokémon game, and so on. It's not too much, because the plot here isn't too extensive in the first place, but at the very least Hisui went out of its way to make its NPCs more than just one-off encounters and helpdesks.
Both games are known for memorable boss battles; which game imagined them better? Which one was more imposing?
Lumari
Just to get him out of the way right away: for Hisui's strengths Volo is a negative if anything. "Hardest boss of the franchise" might technically be accurate, but to me he mostly represents the franchise's current penchant for resorting to cheap tricks in lieu of genuine difficulty. Like, I can't bring myself to be impressed by most of Alola's boss battles with their difficulty stemming from "let's give these Pokémon a free omniboost or two because reasons", and needless to say I have similar feelings on what's pretty much literally an 8v6 battle in a very heavily trades-focused battle system. To stay one step ahead of any accusations of salt though: I did beat him, no worries.
Thankfully the boss battles Hisui is mostly known for are of a different nature of course, and unlike conventional Pokémon "boss battles", they require actual motor skills! Which was interesting for me as someone who is absolutely not outright helpless in this area but does tend to require some practice to actually get things down and get in the proper groove. While Kleavor was low paced enough that I doubt many people would have had serious problems with it, I've lost track of how often Dialga and Arceus blasted me off the screen within the first five seconds of the battle; but there absolutely was a pattern in their attacks and a groove in my dodges to figure out, which made the battles a pretty rewarding experience. They certainly got brutal, but they also certainly were learnable, and by extension fair. And not to mention intense; say what you will, but one way or another these did get my heart beating pretty fast lol.
For Sinnoh I can keep this a bit shorter, since there is actually no way to separate the boss battles from the characters providing them, which I've of course just finished writing about. I genuinely do believe Cyrus is comparatively one of the more challenging boss battles of the series, but either way the impression it leaves is of course shaped by how my brain processes it in the context of a playthrough. And I've written a lot of words already about how this is excellently done. Of course Sinnoh does not rely solely on Cyrus and Giratina either here; I bet my fellow panelists will have plenty of words to say on Cynthia regardless, all Gym Leaders have cool personalities, and surely I am not the only one who still kind of dreads Mars's Purugly on every new playthrough? I have a million reasons to love Sinnoh, and its cast of bosses ranks pretty high on the list.
Realistically I should be calling this a tie; I absolutely do prefer Sinnoh's boss battles personally and they're the ones that will never be leaving my mind, but my not-so-inner raging Sinnoh fangirl has to acknowledge her obvious bias and respect the inventive spin Hisui took. It would have been very easy to mess up a more real-time Pokémon boss battle style, but I did enjoy these and can't find any real mechanical flaws with them. Or, well, mostly, but as far as I was told I was just unlucky with how Arcanine cornered me and systematically beat me up without allowing me to move to a different area.
Many locations in Hisui can be mapped to Sinnoh locations one-on-one; this makes for a dynamic where simultaneously Sinnoh is "future Hisui" and conversely Hisui is a reinterpretation of Sinnoh. How does this affect the experience of both games?
Lumari
The cynical answer here of course would be to dismiss this as a marketing ploy and leave Hisui's status as "past Sinnoh" as a simple branding tool. While that's probably not untrue, the positive angle here is of course that the Sinnoh parallels, for better or worse, really did fuel this Sinnoh fangirl's enjoyment of the game; just wanting to see what treatment other present-day Sinnoh locations would have gotten was one more reason to keep playing, and the fact that for the most part it was gonna come down to finding abandoned structures in the wilderness really hasn't been bothering me, as someone who really enjoys nature and old buildings. And of course we got more tangible stuff too; I was so happy that Snowpoint Temple was fleshed out so much after the skimpy treatment it had gotten in present-day Sinnoh.
Several overt parallels exist in the characters as well, as I'm sure others will be pointing out, but the juxtaposition between good and evil characters actually ended up weirding me out. Volo's noticeably parallels to Cynthia are a big one of course, and the Survey Corps's uniforms and logo being a pretty overt precursor to... Team Galactic still honestly makes me a bit uncomfortable. I'm sure there's a lesson here, I'm less sure I want to hear it.
Who had the most interesting... plot and why?
heritage
So yeah, Pokémon games are rarely known for their plots. Everyone has their reasons for liking or disliking them, but I really wasn't a fan of the main plot of generation 4. It's mainly the characters that bring them down for me, with a lot of their story being... offscreen or post game and very minimal. It's a perfectly serviceable plot but yeah, it just doesn't feel like the focus. That's fine, a lot of the love for DPP comes from the battles and Pokémon, and that's great. But through all of that, DPP are masters at background storytelling. Think of the house with the Rotom in it with the lost spirits who aimlessly wander around or the creepy church in Hearthome where no music plays and everyone acts... a bit off. So yeah, pretty bad main story but amazing environmental subtext.
Arceus has a lot of this "background story" too, with Ingo being implied as a failed attempt from Arceus to be the main protagonist (you guys did him so dirty i'm so sad bring him back to his brother wtf) and stuff like the Old Verses. The difference here is I wasn't mashing the A button to get through the plot anymore. Legit, one of the best moments in Pokémon for me is when you get kicked out of the village. The fact that you have control over your character really leads to a slow, impactful moment, and while you, the player, know it's wrong, the in-game characters don't. The whole plot is a little too on the nose with “humans bad!” at times but it's better than DPP in my eyes.
Who had the most interesting... characters and why?
heritage
I was really not a fan of the mindless robots that were Team Galactic. Blindly following Cyrus into their own deaths for... whatever reason that's not explained. And don't get me started on the commanders that speak with so much edgy 2000s chat and monologuing out their plans that they don't even have any dialogue left. Cyrus was... there was something there, but once again, I point to his lack of development. You have to go so far out of your way to learn anything about him, and the stuff that's there is pretty lack luster. I think I've said before that he's grown on me over the years, and he has, but not enough. Not even going into the rival (who you, from other opinions I've heard, either find harmless or DESPISE, guess which camp I'm in) or the Professor, who's just a plank of wood.
Arceus has a few downers too, but Volo (obviously) and Professor Laventon (who's just a wholesome dude) are cool characters. But then Arceus has Melli and it all falls apart lmao, and everyone else is just forgettable to me no matter how hard they try. So yeah, it's a tie. I hate everyone equally :)
Both games are known for memorable boss battles; which game imagined them better? Which one was more imposing?
heritage
Ugh. Okay. This one's tough. So everyone knows Cynthia is honestly one of the best fights in all of Pokémon. This is unavoidable knowledge. But the rest of the game has some really good fights too. In terms of aesthetic choice in battles, my favorite detail in Platnium is how Giratina doesn't actually stand on a platform like most Pokémon do, he's just floating on the battle screen. That's a cool detail. The only real negative battle I can think of is Elite Four Flint because... y'know, Fire types don't exist, I guess.
Arceus has great fights too, but some of them feel cheap, and I can't shake that feeling. Infinite stun-lock Origin Palkia and eight Pokémon Volo anyone? But then you get to the Alpha fights, which are super unique fights for Pokémon games, and later on the harder rechallenge fights at the dojo are actually pretty tough all things considered. If I REALLY had to pick one, I'd pick Hisui, but it's not trying to put down DPP, it was just that hard of a decision.
Many locations in Hisui can be mapped to Sinnoh locations one-on-one; this makes for a dynamic where simultaneously Sinnoh is "future Hisui" and conversely Hisui is a reinterpretation of Sinnoh. How does this affect the experience of both games?
heritage
So. I already explained how I think DPP are amazing at background storytelling. So what happens when you add even more background to the background? Going back to play DPP recently, it was just a breath of fresh air being able to see all the details they put into Arceus to make DPP feel more alive. Having canon knowledge on a lot of stuff (like how the Spear Pillar was torn apart) is neato. I am really disappointed they didn't have the Distortion World in Arceus because I really think it could have benefitted from a general speed-up, considering the rest of the generation got one with Arceus and it made the region a ton more fun to play through.
Lumari
Join us next time for a review of Unova and Orre!
| « Previous Article | Next Article » |