It should be noted that Toxic Gliscor is a complete chump into Taunt Moon. The standard EQ + Toxic cannot touch Taunt Tera Flying Moon, which affords multiple free DDances for Moon and will probably cause you to lose the game. As it is quite difficult to discern the Moon set on preview, I would not recommend switching Gliscor into Moon unless you are something like Physdef Poison Jab or U-turn with Bolt Thunderclap in the back.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
It should be noted that Toxic Gliscor is a complete chump into Taunt Moon. The standard EQ + Toxic cannot touch Taunt Tera Flying Moon, which affords multiple free DDances for Moon and will probably cause you to lose the game. As it is quite difficult to discern the Moon set on preview, I would not recommend switching Gliscor into Moon unless you are something like Physdef Poison Jab or U-turn with Bolt Thunderclap in the back.
regarding roaring moon, if the supposed countermeasures to a pokémon are the likes of:
kinda pleased that this discussion has, seemingly, come from nowhere. maybe this is a sign that people are realising that the current power level is problematic? ah, one can but hope!!!
roaring moon, as a pokemon that breaks for itself, has perfect coverage, a billion attack & enough speed to outspeed everything relevant, good bulk, & easy-to-slot roundabouts to common answers, is emblematic of one of the most egregious issues with this generation.
- being forced to trade
- fishing for burns
- running unsets/unmons
- being forced to tera (which is still unreliable)
- hoping it isn’t running a specific set that bypasses your counterplay
- praying it doesn’t tera away its weaknesses to boost further
kinda pleased that this discussion has, seemingly, come from nowhere. maybe this is a sign that people are realising that the current power level is problematic? ah, one can but hope!!!
roaring moon, as a pokemon that breaks for itself, has perfect coverage, a billion attack & enough speed to outspeed everything relevant, good bulk, & easy-to-slot roundabouts to common answers, is emblematic of one of the most egregious issues with this generation.
Well, you see, sometimes you can click a singular Ice move and pray to god you kill it. Better hope all those phasing abilities weren't wasted on other set upsweepers!!!
Roaring gooner
Roaring Moon is not broken, in my opinion. The metagame has an assortment of new counterplay to it, specifically things we didn’t see back during DLC1.
Sticky Barb Clefable is able to stop it at either no kills or one kill at the absolute most, and the latter is assuming it uses up Tera (which would make a standalone trade a net negative). This is easily the best Clefable set right now and it’s been only getting better on balance.
Avalanche Dondozo has been niche for the first year of SV OU, but has picked up a great deal recently, swinging that matchup and potentially wasting Tera as many people want to bolster Acro damage and resist Body Press.
BB Skarmory has been way better than prior and when combined with RH, it’s always beating non-Taunt sets and at the very worst it’s forcing a Tera to account for Body Press and putting it into Body Press range even if you get turns wrong (and there’s a likely chance you win outright).
Ice Shard Weavile, ESpeed Dragonite, and Scarf Meowscarada remain constants on the revenge killing front while Kingambit’s Sucker Punch and Raging Bolt’s Thunderclap do very well post-Tera, too. Every form of “fringe” offense like weather or Terrain has easy ways to RK Roaring Moon as well. The first few of these revenge killers aren’t “new” methods of checking Roaring Moon, but everything else is, which makes the dynamic surrounding it a lot cloudier than DLC1.
Overall, I find Roaring Moon to be very good at forcing progress and I can totally see why people would label it as broken, but I find it more balanced than it previously was. Wouldn’t ever stand in the way of a suspect if the community wanted one (and I am sure we will have a check-in during WCOP), so everyone should absolutely speak their mind. But imo things are still settling post-Volc, things like Wellspring pose a bigger threat to the tier’s balance, and there are some things the arguments across the last page miss.
Sticky Barb Clefable is able to stop it at either no kills or one kill at the absolute most, and the latter is assuming it uses up Tera (which would make a standalone trade a net negative). This is easily the best Clefable set right now and it’s been only getting better on balance.
Avalanche Dondozo has been niche for the first year of SV OU, but has picked up a great deal recently, swinging that matchup and potentially wasting Tera as many people want to bolster Acro damage and resist Body Press.
BB Skarmory has been way better than prior and when combined with RH, it’s always beating non-Taunt sets and at the very worst it’s forcing a Tera to account for Body Press and putting it into Body Press range even if you get turns wrong (and there’s a likely chance you win outright).
Ice Shard Weavile, ESpeed Dragonite, and Scarf Meowscarada remain constants on the revenge killing front while Kingambit’s Sucker Punch and Raging Bolt’s Thunderclap do very well post-Tera, too. Every form of “fringe” offense like weather or Terrain has easy ways to RK Roaring Moon as well. The first few of these revenge killers aren’t “new” methods of checking Roaring Moon, but everything else is, which makes the dynamic surrounding it a lot cloudier than DLC1.
Overall, I find Roaring Moon to be very good at forcing progress and I can totally see why people would label it as broken, but I find it more balanced than it previously was. Wouldn’t ever stand in the way of a suspect if the community wanted one (and I am sure we will have a check-in during WCOP), so everyone should absolutely speak their mind. But imo things are still settling post-Volc, things like Wellspring pose a bigger threat to the tier’s balance, and there are some things the arguments across the last page miss.
To add further into the discussion, I have a couple tour replays that demonstrate the difficulties Roaring Moon has with actually setting up. While scavenging through recent tournament replays, there’s been surprisingly few teams loading up with Roaring Moon, instead they opt Dragonite who imo is the best DD sweeper in the tier. Even when it does show up, it doesn’t make a notable impact, mostly winning games vs opponents whose teams are completely crippled beyond repair which says nothing about Roaring Moon’s alleged brokeness.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2115933352-sd15bu4lz486i6ry5axnmtytbea1bztpw
(Lando trades HP with Moon and U-Turns into Gambit to remove it)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-764807?p2
(Chaitanya is perfectly suited to checking Roaring Moon with Wisp Cinder, Whirlwind Skarm, and Mola)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-759306
(A seemingly free setup for Roaring Moon via Heatran is thwarted by the reveal of Will-O-Wisp)
To secret to dealing with Moon is good positioning. Even with Moon’s decent natural bulk, Moon is at risk of being burnt, para’d or put on a timer with Toxic. As shown in the first replay, what I said about Lando being able to U-Turn into a rkiller is valid, especially since Lando commonly pairs with Gambit/Raging Bolt. Even after taking chip, Lando is still able to Intimidate the Dragonite.
Like Finch said, Moon can force progress with Knock and raw attack power, with or without Dragon Dance, but it doesn’t have the potential to 6-0 well-built teams like Volc did with the correct Tera. Moon most of the time is running Tera Flying. While it can branch into other Teras (Ghost, Steel, Fairy), the reason you run Flying is to not lose to the bulky Ground types in the tier, especially Tusk who can potentially eat a +1 Acro.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 388-458 (89.6 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2115933352-sd15bu4lz486i6ry5axnmtytbea1bztpw
(Lando trades HP with Moon and U-Turns into Gambit to remove it)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-764807?p2
(Chaitanya is perfectly suited to checking Roaring Moon with Wisp Cinder, Whirlwind Skarm, and Mola)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-759306
(A seemingly free setup for Roaring Moon via Heatran is thwarted by the reveal of Will-O-Wisp)
To secret to dealing with Moon is good positioning. Even with Moon’s decent natural bulk, Moon is at risk of being burnt, para’d or put on a timer with Toxic. As shown in the first replay, what I said about Lando being able to U-Turn into a rkiller is valid, especially since Lando commonly pairs with Gambit/Raging Bolt. Even after taking chip, Lando is still able to Intimidate the Dragonite.
Like Finch said, Moon can force progress with Knock and raw attack power, with or without Dragon Dance, but it doesn’t have the potential to 6-0 well-built teams like Volc did with the correct Tera. Moon most of the time is running Tera Flying. While it can branch into other Teras (Ghost, Steel, Fairy), the reason you run Flying is to not lose to the bulky Ground types in the tier, especially Tusk who can potentially eat a +1 Acro.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 388-458 (89.6 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
so anyways the tldr is roaring moon suspect not anytime soon, not confirmed either, just a BIG MAYBE, def ogerpon wellspring suspect coming 1st if anything, time to move on
u just acknowledged finchinator mentioning how moon is good at forcing progress, and i think it does it better than any other mon u can find on ho teams which is the only type of team moon is suitable. find another mon w booster energy atk, stab knock and taunt, none. it doesnt have to be 6-0ing teams to be broken. ur entitled to ur own opinion but just cos a mon cant 6-0 the enemy doesnt means its not broken harhar
btw those replays were nothing special to me esp the 3rd one the enemys team was so weak to moon i would have just lead roaring moon and used it to wallbreak
(This is very much not an official TLDR of anything, but is possible)
Not sure why TPP didn't DD up and maybe Tera in Lando-T's face. That seems like a misplay to me. This was discussed in my previous comment. The math says you should DD in Lando-T's face.
This game is like taking a team with Blissey and Clod and saying Volc isn't broken because it couldn't break through. Never mind the burn. Moon shouldn't be DDing up in the face of Fire types that might burn it. But it probably didn't matter because Skarm, which is one of the few actual forms of counterplay, can just phase it out anyways.
Seemingly free? I mean, most Fire types carry Wisp these days. Mada was behind in that game as they were outplayed at the start. They were likely trying to make something happen.
I don't want to give the impression that I think I'm a better player than these folks or anything. I don't. But you showed replays of a misplay, what is essentially a counterteam, and a player who was losing and took a gamble to make something happen. None of this seems like optimal Moon play to me.
And as much as I do think Roaring Moon is broken, I also think you could have maybe found better examples of replays to back up your point. Phasers like Ting-Lu tend to be good form of counterplay if they can live a hit, which Ting-Lu usually can. Etc.
nah, we just need to be patient. the meta is somewhat bearable right now because we're still fresh off the volc ban and new developments are happening for the first time in a while. give it time and the meta will settle into its usual intolerable state, at which point we'll choose the next thing to kick out. if we repeat this enough times we might actually get to a point where going on ladder doesn't cause physical pain
Google sucker punch
hang on, didn't you rate it as "broken" on your graph?
i think we might all just be playing really fast and loose with the definition of "broken". it'd probably be a good idea at some point to have a discussion on whether or not "broken" means "banworthy", and whether it should mean "banworthy", so we're all on the same page here because i don't think anyone has a consistent definition of the term right now
I dislike Roaring Moon on principal of stats. I know a lot of people feel that we should accept power creep, and to an extent I agree. It is natural. But I feel that we should still be keeping some sort of power level in mind when tiering for anything under than Ubers (even Ubers has one, just obscenely high standard of course), and to me Roaring Moon simply gets past it.
It's probably not banworthy in the current tier with how we are tiering it, but I wish that we got rid of mons like it a long time ago. To be clear I am not talking just about BST, but this sort of min-maxxing in conjunction with high BST. 139 Attack and 119 speed is really good in of itself, but then you have the 105 HP, 101 SpDef and second-worst stat being 71 in Defense. Ah jeez, Scarlet Violet, wow. A Physical Attacker with sub 60 spatk to min-max further, shocking.
From a tiering perspective, my opinion is that keeping these types of Pokemon around will almost always bring unhealthy elements to the tier, and will almost always lead to strategies being found in the future that break them. When you have such high unabilitated, min-maxxed BST, do not be surprised when people find a way to maximize the effect of it and find ways for it to strongarm every other Pokemon. We used to have a mechanic where Pokemon like Roaring Moon could exist, and it was called Mega Evolution, and you could only have one per team. It was the Queen piece of your team. Now you can run a bunch of Pokemon like this.
My biggest critique of Gen 9 OU (and yes this is subjective) isn't that X teamstyle is unviable, or variety, or whatever. It's that I simply do not think the new Pokemon (or new strategies for old Pokemon due to Tera: ie. Dragonite) are fun to play around at all. Be it Garganacl or Gholdengo being immune to status, or Kingambit having a bajillion attack with boosts + Sucker Punch, or Glimmora not being allowed to be attacked by half the tier unless I just want to accept hazards. Dondozo being a stat creep unaware Pokemon, Skeledirge also, all the mons getting +1 Speed with min-maxxed stats like Roaring Moon. There are a few pretty honest ones like Clodsire and Great Tusk, but even Clodsire can be really annoying.
SV OU is "cockblocking: the tier." Be it the bajillion priorities, several viable Unaware Pokemon, Pokemon that block all forms of status, or revenge killers that literally just have 500 speed, Encore being more prevalent than ever; there is no natural flow in this tier.
It's probably not banworthy in the current tier with how we are tiering it, but I wish that we got rid of mons like it a long time ago. To be clear I am not talking just about BST, but this sort of min-maxxing in conjunction with high BST. 139 Attack and 119 speed is really good in of itself, but then you have the 105 HP, 101 SpDef and second-worst stat being 71 in Defense. Ah jeez, Scarlet Violet, wow. A Physical Attacker with sub 60 spatk to min-max further, shocking.
From a tiering perspective, my opinion is that keeping these types of Pokemon around will almost always bring unhealthy elements to the tier, and will almost always lead to strategies being found in the future that break them. When you have such high unabilitated, min-maxxed BST, do not be surprised when people find a way to maximize the effect of it and find ways for it to strongarm every other Pokemon. We used to have a mechanic where Pokemon like Roaring Moon could exist, and it was called Mega Evolution, and you could only have one per team. It was the Queen piece of your team. Now you can run a bunch of Pokemon like this.
My biggest critique of Gen 9 OU (and yes this is subjective) isn't that X teamstyle is unviable, or variety, or whatever. It's that I simply do not think the new Pokemon (or new strategies for old Pokemon due to Tera: ie. Dragonite) are fun to play around at all. Be it Garganacl or Gholdengo being immune to status, or Kingambit having a bajillion attack with boosts + Sucker Punch, or Glimmora not being allowed to be attacked by half the tier unless I just want to accept hazards. Dondozo being a stat creep unaware Pokemon, Skeledirge also, all the mons getting +1 Speed with min-maxxed stats like Roaring Moon. There are a few pretty honest ones like Clodsire and Great Tusk, but even Clodsire can be really annoying.
SV OU is "cockblocking: the tier." Be it the bajillion priorities, several viable Unaware Pokemon, Pokemon that block all forms of status, or revenge killers that literally just have 500 speed, Encore being more prevalent than ever; there is no natural flow in this tier.
I guess you missed the literal half dozen posts and disclaimers explaining this wasn’t an exercise to reflect tiering and didn’t hold weight in that context. Love when we push narratives and miss the actual content and arguments.
but finch where do the ou ranked mons fall in the drake kendrick beef i just know that drake is volcarona
i gave oras ou a try after some of u suggested it and it is hella fun!!
on the topic of sv, hows the lack of volc sitting with y'all?
i gave oras ou a try after some of u suggested it and it is hella fun!!
on the topic of sv, hows the lack of volc sitting with y'all?
It's so funny, Finch just wanted to see everybody's silly graphs instead people went on forever on a semantics discussion.
It makes me feel so much better. Knowing that I don't have the run 3 mons just to check every variant makes team building much more fun in all honesty to build. Before when team building, the team would be able to counter one set, but then another would destroy it. This means it would take so much time to account for every tera type volcs has until you are destroyed by one you forgot about all of a sudden, like tera bug swarm.
i never said it held any weight, did i? i specifically said "whether or not you want roaring moon banned" in my post about it being broken. i wasn't conflating "broken" with "banworthy", i was just making the observation that the mon is, outside of the context of the meta, absolutely bonkers. that's why you put it in on the "broken" side of the graph, isn't it? not because of its place in this particular meta, but because the mon in a vacuum is textbook broken. obviously that doesn't matter to tiering at all because other things exist, but nowhere in this conversation did i insinuate that it mattered. maybe i didn't make that entirely clear and i apologize for the misunderstanding
Broken or uncompetitive or anything relevant in tiering context cannot be determined “outside of the context of the meta” because they’re all terms relative to any given tier. Things like BST or abilities are only good relative to their peers, same for overall viability and effectiveness.
but doesn't that kinda just ultimately boil down to "if everything is broken, then nothing is"? i don't think that's an acceptable state of things
also, i'm still confused as to how suggesting "we should probably agree on a consistent, universal definition for this term and stick to it" was pushing a narrative. i was just saying that people are using "broken" to mean a dozen different things and it's starting to lead to confusion and the term losing meaning. what narrative is that pushing?
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No, that has nothing to do with what I said.
My point is that you are only “broken” if you lack sufficient counterplay. Counterplay is determined by what’s usable within any metagame. Calling something “broken” when it’s “outside the context of the meta” means nothing. It’s a relative term that is a determinant of its surrounding context. You can’t just say “oooh big stats strong moves broken” — those may be symptoms, but tiering is about the actual interactions within the metagame.
but the reason box legendaries start out in ubers is because of their big stats and strong moves, isn't it? they're typically not allowed to have any actual interactions within the metagame, no matter how powercrept and unbalanced the meta starts out, and this is universally agreed upon as the correct way to go about things. even when they were mass-testing ubers for bw, they (correctly) decided that some were "broken beyond reasonable doubt" and didn't need testing at all. so there has to be some sort of cutoff point where something is broken in virtually any reasonable ou context by merit of its own self instead of its interactions with the meta. maybe i'm old and stodgy and my tolerance for the sort of minmaxing and hyperoptimization that's become commonplace in recent gens is just lower than average, or maybe the average power level of the whole tier has surpassed that cutoff all at once and it's no longer possible to properly clean up the mess. i won't fault anyone for going with the first option, it's certainly the more comforting one
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I wanted to share an underrated Gouging Fire set I cooked up during the Volcarona suspect. All of the GFires I've seen on the ladder for the last few months are either fast offensive DD or bulky DD breaking swipe, however, I haven't seen anyone else making use of GFires exceptional bulk (105/121/93), fantastic typing and unique utility movepool with Burning Bulwark and Dragon Tail. That said, GFire has a set of attributes that allow it to be an at times unkillable phaser for bulky and hazard stack teams.
Phasing Fire Set:
Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 104 Def / 44 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Morning Sun
- Burning Bulwark
- Flare Blitz
This set makes use of GFires unique typing and movepool to completely shut down some of the metas potent physical attackers. As almost every GFire variant currently is DD, Burning Bulwark has a surprise element that can ruin opponents game plan early in a match. Burning Bulwark is an incredible move that allows GFire to consistently burn threats that can otherwise avoid WoW such as Meowscarada, Weavile, Ogerpon (Teal), Sammurott, Zamzenta, Libero Cinderace and Rillaboom, along with non earthquake variants of Great Tusk.
GFire pairs well with Rillaboom who appreciates GFires ability to completely stop meow, cinderace, and weavile in their tracks. Under grassy terrain, GFires matchup against mons that pack eq coverage like Dragonite and Roaring Moon drastically improves, allowing GFire to eat an eq and phase with dragon tail or force contact to burn the opponent with BB. Rillaboom also helps with non-teal Ogerpons who otherwise avoid BB burns with Ivy Cudgel. Phasing with Dragon Tail allows GFire to help check setup sweepers and rack up valuable chip damage against counters like dondozo, garg, Lando-T, Tusk with EQ, and Gliscor. Dtail also helps dissuade opponents from switching in revenge killers like Dragapult, Kyurem, and Wake after pivoting.
The EV spread is based off the Bulky DD set, however some of the speed EVs are allocated to SpD to augments GFires tanking ability. 72 Attack EVs allow GFire to 2HKO Clodsire with Flare Blitz and 36 Spe allows it to outspeed an uninvested Gliscor in a pinch. The bulk investment with an Impish nature allows GFire to survive a +2 Tera Water Ogerpon-W's Ivy Cudgel from full HP while safely taking it off the field with dtail. While Phasing GFire shouldnt the primary tera user on teams, Tera Fairy is the preferred tera to blank common dragon attacks from revenge killers like Dragapult and Kyurem, while also conveniently dropping its weakness to ground.
Phasing GFire needs to be postioned carefully to maximize the effectiveness of BB while avoiding opponents status moves and untimely knock offs. This set really struggles against mons that sometimes pack earth power like Lando T, Treads, dirge, and flash fire heatran. Additionally, most Gliscor sets can hard wall this set so bringing a solid check is mandatory. Phasing GFire can contribute against most common archetypes, however it can struggle against teams packing multiple strong special attackers.
Overall, this is an extremely underrated GFire set that I think should see more use. It's not as potent as it's DD sets and the 90% accuracy on dragon tail can be infuriating at times but it certainly occupies a solid niche as a defensive phaser that can cover difficult matchups for hazard stacking like Cinderace, Weavile and Meow.
Phasing Fire in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2119825021-qc8dhx2m4b778l37l0wovqnpxy9sfa5pw
This matchup shows GFires defensive utility, getting the turn 1 burn on meow and later shutting down a dragonite setup under grassy terrain.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2119919885-x8ifywtb37gnwuemnflgb96cxp0aqtlpw
Here we see GFire being highly disruptive vs stall, leading the opponent to forfeit after wearing down Skarm.
I'd be curious to see if anyone else is leveraging unusual sets for other meta staple. It's been fun messing around with an offbeat GFire set.
Phasing Fire Set:
Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 104 Def / 44 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Morning Sun
- Burning Bulwark
- Flare Blitz
This set makes use of GFires unique typing and movepool to completely shut down some of the metas potent physical attackers. As almost every GFire variant currently is DD, Burning Bulwark has a surprise element that can ruin opponents game plan early in a match. Burning Bulwark is an incredible move that allows GFire to consistently burn threats that can otherwise avoid WoW such as Meowscarada, Weavile, Ogerpon (Teal), Sammurott, Zamzenta, Libero Cinderace and Rillaboom, along with non earthquake variants of Great Tusk.
GFire pairs well with Rillaboom who appreciates GFires ability to completely stop meow, cinderace, and weavile in their tracks. Under grassy terrain, GFires matchup against mons that pack eq coverage like Dragonite and Roaring Moon drastically improves, allowing GFire to eat an eq and phase with dragon tail or force contact to burn the opponent with BB. Rillaboom also helps with non-teal Ogerpons who otherwise avoid BB burns with Ivy Cudgel. Phasing with Dragon Tail allows GFire to help check setup sweepers and rack up valuable chip damage against counters like dondozo, garg, Lando-T, Tusk with EQ, and Gliscor. Dtail also helps dissuade opponents from switching in revenge killers like Dragapult, Kyurem, and Wake after pivoting.
The EV spread is based off the Bulky DD set, however some of the speed EVs are allocated to SpD to augments GFires tanking ability. 72 Attack EVs allow GFire to 2HKO Clodsire with Flare Blitz and 36 Spe allows it to outspeed an uninvested Gliscor in a pinch. The bulk investment with an Impish nature allows GFire to survive a +2 Tera Water Ogerpon-W's Ivy Cudgel from full HP while safely taking it off the field with dtail. While Phasing GFire shouldnt the primary tera user on teams, Tera Fairy is the preferred tera to blank common dragon attacks from revenge killers like Dragapult and Kyurem, while also conveniently dropping its weakness to ground.
Phasing GFire needs to be postioned carefully to maximize the effectiveness of BB while avoiding opponents status moves and untimely knock offs. This set really struggles against mons that sometimes pack earth power like Lando T, Treads, dirge, and flash fire heatran. Additionally, most Gliscor sets can hard wall this set so bringing a solid check is mandatory. Phasing GFire can contribute against most common archetypes, however it can struggle against teams packing multiple strong special attackers.
Overall, this is an extremely underrated GFire set that I think should see more use. It's not as potent as it's DD sets and the 90% accuracy on dragon tail can be infuriating at times but it certainly occupies a solid niche as a defensive phaser that can cover difficult matchups for hazard stacking like Cinderace, Weavile and Meow.
Phasing Fire in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2119825021-qc8dhx2m4b778l37l0wovqnpxy9sfa5pw
This matchup shows GFires defensive utility, getting the turn 1 burn on meow and later shutting down a dragonite setup under grassy terrain.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2119919885-x8ifywtb37gnwuemnflgb96cxp0aqtlpw
Here we see GFire being highly disruptive vs stall, leading the opponent to forfeit after wearing down Skarm.
I'd be curious to see if anyone else is leveraging unusual sets for other meta staple. It's been fun messing around with an offbeat GFire set.