Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #1002))

Using my enormous wide-reaching platform as BIG VR COUNCIL I want to quickly address the hate that sun is getting for imo undeserved reasons. I think people are hopping on a bandwagon without trying to push the envelope themselves.

:walking wake: :torkoal: -> B+ : Sun has had a pretty bad showing lately. Torkoal plummeted into UU, and Wake would have just barely made the cutoff for OU at a mere 4.627%, and it’s not hard to see why; sun is on the downturn, on account of how irritating it is when the opponent gets a free 1.3x on their Raging Bolts or Tusk which sucks. But it’s not just sun. Wake feels inconsistent—none of its moves feel particularly easy to click into the myriad of threats in the metagame, such as Waterpon and Primarina, which can threaten to squeeze valuable momentum out of the limited turns sun already has. It still has its perks, but it doesn’t really reflect the A ranks.
I really don't get where this "wake feels inconsistent" is coming from. Let me preface by saying that my favorite 2 wake sets are mystic water speed booster and modest specs.

Walking Wake @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse

Walking Wake @ Mystic Water
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 12 Def / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Flip Turn

Mystic Water sets can use their great speed tier & flexibility of switching moves to put immense pressure on offense teams because the immediate power to OHKO stuff like darkrai after rocks is still there without specs. You can still 2hko and outspeed waterpon with flamethrower in sun while living any attack back so your matchup vs that is fine, and you can flip turn on glowking/prima into a sun partner that can abuse them (many choices available for this, tusk should be on most sun teams anyway).

My true love is modest specs though. I will never understand the "Inconsistent" allegations. A lot of people don't realize that modest tera water specs in sun literally ohkos glowking and 2hkos tera water glowking. Non AV prima is 2hkod by hydro steam in sun without tera water. Waterpon is ohko'd by any non hydro steam move and does not OHKO.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Tera Water Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Tera Water Slowking-Galar in Sun: 186-219 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Primarina in Sun: 180-212 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Far from inconsistent, this is imo the most consistent wallbreaker in the tier. The fact that you can blow through the sturdiest water resists in the tier means you are rarely clicking off of hydro steam and you aren't very prediction reliant as far as Choiced breakers go. It's far stronger than specs kyurem under sun, less prediction reliant than specs raging bolt, and still useful outside of sun and vs HO. It can cleanly 1v1 HO staples like rmoon, darkrai, deo-s, glimmora, raging bolt, and tusk which is perfectly fine for a wallbreaker. These calcs do not show wake losing momentum. This is not a B+ rank mon.

IMG_8885.png

Sun: 6/10
Pinkacross rated Sun a 7.5/10, but I disagree about it being at that level. Sun is the best weather in the tier, with strong abusers like the Past Paradoxes and H-Lilligant and Torkoal being a decent check to Gambit, Dnite, etc. Sun has more flexibility in the builder than Rain. The Paradox Dogs are also still great outside Sun (besides Wake). The archetype still has a lot of holes that are frequently seen on these builds. Glowking is an infamous matchup that can pivot into Wake or Torkoal to reset the Sun, nearly everything on Sun hates Garg and it can Protect to stall out turns or Tera on an incoming Wake. Prima can pick up a kill vs Sun as they have few ways to OHKO or switch into it. Wogre makes clicking Hydro Steam a risk and pivoting around Wake easier. Booster mons like Valiant can outspeed and threaten everything under Sun. Glimmora messes with a lot of Sun builds, either by getting up rocks/tspikes or dealing big damage. We’ve also seen Balance teams adapt to CB G-Fire with Tera Water Knock Gliscor or G-Fire/Heatran to switch into Blitz. The archetype has other fundamental issues like lacking Ground immunes making Headlong Rush or EQ free to click, Sun also relies on double switches or stuff like Eject Button Hatt since they have few ways to generate momentum otherwise.
Also gonna reach back to a month ago to a post I remembered from 658Greninja about sun archtype.

First off wake can be great outside of sun, check out this game where Finch wins smogtour this week with a Walking Wake bootspam team I built with him. Even out of sun, Wake puts solid pressure on glowking and comfortably forces knock off, leading to opposing glowking quickly getting overwhelmed by max layers. Wake can bring a unique anti-weather properties in conjunction with own glowking for bootspam teams while making great progress and being a very difficult mon to absorb knocks from.

The rest is all fair, but only if you've been sticking with the same ol shitty sun archetypes. Stuff like triple dragon death barrage or hatt/tusk/rmoon/wake/gf kinds of teams have all the problems listed above, but there's way more flexibility in the builder than these shitty and outdated sun builds.

Tera Water Garg is annoying and clicking Protect? Use growth venu
Primarina threatens a kill? Use Venu
Tspikes annoying you? Use venu
Wogre ate a hydro steam? Use venu
Iron valiant outspeeding ur team and threatening you? USE VENU

Venu might be relatively undertuned BST wise for this gen's powercreep but boy does it cover a lot of hard to reach spots for sun. I prefer weather ball/sludge bomb/giga/growth but if you don't have a way to handle iron moth, I recommend earth power>weather ball.

Lacking ground resists/immunes? Use Slither Wing
Lacking a pivot and relying on eject button/double switches? Use Slither Wing

This mon is super nice for providing a ground resist and is very good at positioning your walking wake, raging bolt, or several other teammates in safely vs stuff like lando-t, ghold, zapdos, moltres, corv, skarm, etc that admittedly do come in freely but as long as you're mashing U-turn and bringing in your big hitters, you're doing your job. AV is a solid set from RKOtaku's RMT but I would encourage exploration into morning sun/wisp sets as well, they're solid. Check out this game from smogtours where the RMT puts in work.

I agree that CB GFire has been adapted to, and that's why I suggest going back to good ol' DD under sun instead. Sun activating Proto and boosting Flare Blitz power is quite busted, allowing you to DD as opposing Lando-T comes in and just ohko them from full:

252 Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian in Sun: 382-450 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

No tera, no boosting item, nothing else needed. Just DD once in sun and Lando-T isn't even a check, you get the speed boost and item slot to do whatever you want.

I'm not going to fully show my hand and drop teams+all the cool sets I've come up with for sun due to WCoP but I assure you that this new direction is just the tip of the iceberg. Sun is still an extremely powerful playstyle with tons of room for innovation and exploration to work around its well-defined and narrow weaknesses. Torkoal and Wake should remain A- and I will be voting as such in upcoming slates.
 
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:Okidogi: ->B-/C+ : This isn't a joke. The big dog serves many purposes and checks Zam, Kingambit, Darkrai, and Rillaboom. Has knock. Absorbs Toxic Spikes. Guard Dog prevents any whirlwind/roar or stat changes from a cycling lando or the rarer haze tox. He can spiral out of control quick with his drain punch bulk up combo and even beats out Great Tusk 1v1 more easily than you would think. He is a much better mon than given credit for and I think truly deserves a spot on the VR. B- is more accurate but I understand the reluctance to set anything from unranked into the B tiers

I’m gonna second this nom. I think B-/C+ is drastic, especially for a UR nom, but Okidogi has key traits that make it worth using in the mist of current trends. Not only are Darkrai and Zama more common in the tier, but Glimmora being top 10 in usage means dealing with Tspikes is necessary. Okidogi checks these two while absorbing Tspikes.

Zamazenta can often struggle with Balance teams that are able to easily switch around it, but Okidogi is an alternative that performs better into these matchups due to its Poison immunity, Knock Off to hit Ghosts and cripple walls like Dozo, and STAB Pjab for Fairies. Being one of the few hard checks to Zama is huge thanks to Guard Dog.

But I encourage players to experiment with other sets like Toxic Chain AoA which can wallbreak with poison or coverage while crippling Zama along with Ice Punch to smack Gliscor. Works really nicey in conjunction with partners like Hex Defensive Ghold, Wogre, and Primarina. I’ve also thought about Choice Band Okidogi which can do this

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Okidogi Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 347-409 (90.8 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

For more Okidogi stuff, I made an informative post here.

Also I do apologize for shit talking Wake. I still think Sun should drop to B+, but Wake is indeed good on certain Boots Spam structures thanks to being a Knocker that lures Glowking.
 
Lacking ground resists/immunes? Use Slither Wing
Lacking a pivot and relying on eject button/double switches? Use Slither Wing

I agree with your whole post. But I have a question about Sither Wing. To your knowledge, is there a reason why it isn’t ranked on the VR? Looking back through this thread you can see that before the last few VR shifts multiple people have been recommending Slither Wing for VR placement and yet it’s never been placed. To me, Slither Wing feels better than most of the current D rank and even on par with a lot of the mons in C rank.
 
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I agree with your whole post. But I have a question about Sither Wing. To your knowledge, is there a reason why it isn’t ranked on the VR? Looking back through this thread you can see that before the last few VR shifts multiple people have been recommending Slither Wing for VR placement and yet it’s never been placed. To me, Slither Wing feels better than most of the current D rank and even on par with a lot of the mons in C rank.
Kinda just overlooked it but I'd slap Slither Wing in C easily. Been a solid slow pivot on some of my suns, first impression is super useful to hit all the darks/deo-s/waterpon and you can pair with raging bolt thunderclap to shut down opposing roaring moon if they try to tera fly, all without expending tera of your own. Checkmating Rmoon in the builder with these 2 prio moves is super neat.

It's also one of the few mons alongside tinkaton that can super comfortably swap into 4 attacks/NP 3 attacks darkrai and it can consistently force it out (or force tera) + get momentum with u-turn unlike zama/tinka. Not sure I'd use it out of sun but it's more than viable. I'd post replays but that would be leaking my ladder alts so take my word for it, Slither is C easy.
 
Ok just again gonna nominate this. This will make it an even 50 nominations I made this block (holy cow!)

But I just wanna say I still think :Golem-Alola: also deserves a low ranking. The trouble with me is that I love these silly bad pokemon but surely this can deserve a D ranking. Perhaps if a better player than I tested it after I provide the evidence below it would be easier to look at.

But here is a Galvanize Alolan Golem using Choice Band and some of the calcs that can be made. Keep in mind, this is forgoing the even stronger Double Edge I could be using for more possible longevity. The consideration is mostly for a place on a trick room team or a team with some slow pivots. In Trick Room a lot of the (tera to survives) are not at all necessary as he can OHKO without it and only Teras to not die to an Earthquake/Earth Power but being so slow he is going to take priority in most trick scenarios. He partners well with Specs Pelliper I've noticed as the common ground response to him is very easily exploitable. Really any flyer will do, but Specs Pelliper excels only on a Trick Room team obviously and covers a lot of what our rocky lad can't normally.

Golem-Alola (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Galvanize
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Brick Break
- Volt Switch/Gyro Ball (this is kind of just here right now. I think another move can be used in its place but I'm not sure what. Explosion might honestly be ok)
- Earthquake
- Body Slam

Every move it learns beats Dragapult in a 1v1 with a 2HKO, you can also run Explosion to kill Pult and yourself if you want but I dont
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 356-420 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 684-806 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 278-328 (98.9 - 116.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 362-428 (90.5 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 432-512 (126.6 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 283-334 (97.5 - 115.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 400-472 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Iron Crown: 340-400 (103.3 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (6.3% chance to be OHKO'd by Focus Blast if it hits but can also Tera Electric to OHKO with ease)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 202-238 (63.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Can Tera to gain 62.5% chance to OHKO)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 624-734 (194.3 - 228.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera can avoid 6.3% chance to OHKO and I would as this is the mon you'd Tera on any team you have him on)
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 306-362 (95.3 - 112.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (see above)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 369-435 (131.3 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 724-852 (257.6 - 303.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (easily wins fight)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 327-385 (108.6 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Gyro Ball (139 BP) vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Tera Ground Iron Moth: 297-350 (98.6 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 283-334 (117.4 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 400-472 (132.8 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 452-536 (89.6 - 106.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Electric Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 338-398 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (insanely survives an EQ here and kills, but only survives if you Tera. Also can't be rock chipped)
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 408-482 (103.5 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 576-680 (107.8 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 360-424 (111.4 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (need Tera to survive not kill. If you can predict a switch in it kills without Tera as well. Still OHKO's if he Tera Normals)
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Electric Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 740-872 (241 - 284%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 376-444 (122.4 - 144.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Electric Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gouging Fire: 288-340 (82 - 96.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (Tera to survive)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 884-1044 (275.3 - 325.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-388 (101.5 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (tera to survive, EQ works too but if they have air balloon here you go)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Electric Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 506-596 (109.2 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 928-1092 (321.1 - 377.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)

Explosions you survive a hit from and can OHKO in return that you couldn't otherwise OHKO, just to include.

252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Explosion vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 415-490 (106.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 582-685 (144 - 169.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

On top of this, Alolan Golem also has magnet pull. While this isn't amazing we all saw what Probopass did with it and this mon can do something similar, forgoing Galvanize for Magnet Pull and Body Slam for Supercell Slam. This allows him to trap and deal with Kingambit with absolute ease. While this doesn't sound like a lot and I am only covering it in this one paragraph it is actually huge for his viability with the lack of Magnet Pulls in the meta now. At absolute worst you burn a Tera they probably didn't want to use and at best you easily kill your trapped victim. He can deal with Heatran (to a lesser extent) and Iron Crown as well. Magnet Pull can provide some neat backup with 100% win rate duels that can open up your team for other sweepers like we saw with Probopass killing Kingambit to open up Iron Crown.

This is also only running calcs for the S to A tiers with a couple others sprinkled in. Going further down the list he has even more easy matchups (and of course matchups he loses outright too). His survivability isn't amazing as he can usually take only 1 man with him but I have had many testing trick room matches where he takes 2 or 3 with ease. I am not that impressive a player so I don't feel comfortable being the end all be all of testing knowledge with him but VERY few others seem to be trying him out so at least maybe this post draws a little awareness to someone.

I'm not saying this is some insane mon but surely he can find some room in the D or (maybe) C tiers no? Especially if my last long post of noms is taken into consideration and a C- is introduced haha. This is certainly a hard sell and I very much doubt it will happen, but I always will shoot my shot with this rocky boy
 
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Ok just again gonna nominate this. This will make it an even 50 nominations I made this block (holy cow!)

But I just wanna say I still think :Golem-Alola: also deserves a low ranking. The trouble with me is that I love these silly bad pokemon but surely this can deserve a D ranking. Perhaps if a better player than I tested it after I provide the evidence below it would be easier to look at.

But here is a Galvanize Alolan Golem using Choice Band and some of the calcs that can be made. Keep in mind, this is forgoing the even stronger Double Edge I could be using for more possible longevity. The consideration is mostly for a place on a trick room team or a team with some slow pivots. In Trick Room a lot of the (tera to survives) are not at all necessary as he can OHKO without it and only Teras to not die to an Earthquake/Earth Power but being so slow he is going to take priority in most trick scenarios. He partners well with Specs Pelliper I've noticed as the common ground response to him is very easily exploitable. Really any flyer will do, but Specs Pelliper excels only on a Trick Room team obviously and covers a lot of what our rocky lad can't normally.

Golem-Alola (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Galvanize
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Brick Break
- Volt Switch/Gyro Ball (this is kind of just here right now. I think another move can be used in its place but I'm not sure what. Explosion might honestly be ok)
- Earthquake
- Body Slam

Every move it learns beats Dragapult in a 1v1 with a 2HKO, you can also run Explosion to kill Pult and yourself if you want but I dont
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 356-420 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 684-806 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 278-328 (98.9 - 116.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 362-428 (90.5 - 107%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 432-512 (126.6 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 283-334 (97.5 - 115.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 400-472 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Iron Crown: 340-400 (103.3 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (6.3% chance to be OHKO'd by Focus Blast if it hits but can also Tera Electric to OHKO with ease)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 202-238 (63.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Can Tera to gain 62.5% chance to OHKO)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 624-734 (194.3 - 228.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera can avoid 6.3% chance to OHKO and I would as this is the mon you'd Tera on any team you have him on)
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 306-362 (95.3 - 112.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (see above)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 369-435 (131.3 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 724-852 (257.6 - 303.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (easily wins fight)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 327-385 (108.6 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golem-Alola Gyro Ball (139 BP) vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Tera Ground Iron Moth: 297-350 (98.6 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 283-334 (117.4 - 138.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 400-472 (132.8 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 452-536 (89.6 - 106.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Electric Golem-Alola Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 338-398 (96.2 - 113.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (insanely survives an EQ here and kills, but only survives if you Tera. Also can't be rock chipped)
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 408-482 (103.5 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 576-680 (107.8 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 360-424 (111.4 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (need Tera to survive not kill. If you can predict a switch in it kills without Tera as well. Still OHKO's if he Tera Normals)
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Electric Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 740-872 (241 - 284%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 376-444 (122.4 - 144.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Electric Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gouging Fire: 288-340 (82 - 96.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (Tera to survive)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 884-1044 (275.3 - 325.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-388 (101.5 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (tera to survive, EQ works too but if they have air balloon here you go)
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Electric Golem-Alola Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Clodsire: 506-596 (109.2 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Tera Electric Golem-Alola Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 928-1092 (321.1 - 377.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Tera to survive)

Explosions you survive a hit from and can OHKO in return that you couldn't otherwise OHKO, just to include.

252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Explosion vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 415-490 (106.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 582-685 (144 - 169.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

On top of this, Alolan Golem also has magnet pull. While this isn't amazing we all saw what Probopass did with it and this mon can do something similar, forgoing Galvanize for Magnet Pull and Body Slam for Supercell Slam. This allows him to trap and deal with Kingambit with absolute ease. While this doesn't sound like a lot and I am only covering it in this one paragraph it is actually huge for his viability with the lack of Magnet Pulls in the meta now. At absolute worst you burn a Tera they probably didn't want to use and at best you easily kill your trapped victim. He can deal with Heatran (to a lesser extent) and Iron Crown as well. Magnet Pull can provide some neat backup with 100% win rate duels that can open up your team for other sweepers like we saw with Probopass killing Kingambit to open up Iron Crown.

This is also only running calcs for the S to A tiers with a couple others sprinkled in. Going further down the list he has even more easy matchups (and of course matchups he loses outright too). His survivability isn't amazing as he can usually take only 1 man with him but I have had many testing trick room matches where he takes 2 or 3 with ease. I am not that impressive a player so I don't feel comfortable being the end all be all of testing knowledge with him but VERY few others seem to be trying him out so at least maybe this post draws a little awareness to someone.

I'm not saying this is some insane mon but surely he can find some room in the D or (maybe) C tiers no? Especially if my last long post of noms is taken into consideration and a C- is introduced haha. This is certainly a hard sell and I very much doubt it will happen, but I always will shoot my shot with this rocky boy
Hey, I like Alolan Golem too but the problem with listing calcs like that is that it doesn't consider how a battle could actually play out. What I mean is that most of the defensive mons you listed, like Blissey, Dondozo, or Corviknight, have no reason to stay in on Alolan Golem so your opponent would likely just switch to a ground type like Tusk, Gliscor, or Lando, which as Eeveeto said, Alolan Golem can't really touch. For pretty much all of the offensive mons you listed calcs for, like Valiant, Crown, Wellspring, etc., Alolan Golem wouldn't be able to switch into them, due to its frailty and vulnerable typing, and it's too slow to outspeed anything that would threaten it.

Essentially, for the vast majority of mons as slow as Alolan Golem to function they need to either be bulky/resist enough and be able to hit/cripple the majority of mons that could switch into them (like Melmetal was in SS), or they need to be defensive walls - Alolan Golem meets neither of those descriptions. Again, I agree with Eeveeto in that if Alolan Golem has any minuscule niche at all, it will be because of Magnet Pull.

Also, I get that you mentioned Trick Room but that has hardly ever been a consistent strategy in singles. Sure, if you build your team in a way to give one mon a tremendous amount of support it could potentially look good in certain matchups, but against good players using solid teams, you're going to be putting yourself at a big disadvantage more often than not.

Edit: Also, hopefully none of that came off as critical or harsh; that wasn't my intention. I'm all for creativity and testing things, and I appreciate you looking into "silly" or "bad" mons. I was just trying to point out a common problem with theorymoning, and subsequently why I don't think that Galvanize Alolan Golem is really worth using in OU. Keep experimenting though!
 
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A few people have mentioned this mon before but I’d like to reiterate:

:incineroar:: UR -> C

:incineroar: has favorable matchups into many of the best mons in the tier like :kingambit:, :dragapult:, :gouging fire:, and :gholdengo: (notably being one of the best checks without tera to the omnipresent boots hex :dragapult: sets), while having excellent tools to rein in opposing setup (especially physical setup) via intimidate, parting shot, knock off, and wisp. Depending on the level of hazard control provided to it, it can even afford to run leftovers, which makes :incineroar: impressively difficult to break and likely to have made significant progress by the time it is broken. It has very natural synergy with :hatterene: due to the latter’s hazard control and ability to deny/dissuade annoying taunts and encores and status moves that may be thrown at the former, alongside taking fighting moves and appreciating :incineroar:’s resistance to dark and ghost moves. Slow pivots are also just in great shape in this gen so long as they aren’t overly passive (poor :corviknight:); there are so many big threats that really appreciate safe entry and not every team can rely on facilitating that through sacs. I’ve been experimenting with it a lot recently and while I am obviously using it against a meta that lacks preparation specific to it, :incineroar: has been remarkably consistent for me. I would advise the particular set:

Incineroar @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy / Water / Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Careful Nature
- Parting Shot
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Earthquake / Roar

252 HP and 168 SpD EVs with a sassy nature allows you to scout timid specs :dragapult: consistently by taking 2 specs draco meteors, and the rest goes to Def. Sassy nature also allows you to slow pivot on :corviknight: and :alomomola:; alternatively, leaving your speed alone lets you outspeed bulky :kingambit:. EQ or roar is taken over the oft-used flare blitz because it deals far better with :gouging fire:, :heatran:, :cinderace:, :garganacl:, :iron moth:, etc., and because I feel flare blitz doesn’t cover many things that aren’t covered by other moves like wisp.
 
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Hi everyone! As the meta shifts post-Volc ban, we're back at a point where the needle has started to shift and the VR needs updating - this time, we've gone with a mini shift, mainly considering the Pokemon at the top along with anything that we think needs significant changes.

Newly Added
:Lokix: UR to D

Rises
:Slowking_Galar: A+ to S-
:Zamazenta: A+ to S-
:Darkrai: A to A+
:Deoxys_Speed: A- to A
-
:Cinderace: B+ to A-
:Corviknight: B+ to A-
:Scizor: B to B+
:Zapdos: B to B+
:Moltres: B- to B+
-
:Amoonguss: C+ to B-

Drops
:Great_Tusk: S to S-
-
:Hatterene: A to A-
:Meowscarada: A- to B+
-
:Iron_Boulder: B+ to B-
-
:Smeargle: D to UR

Major Changes
:Moltres: B- to B+
(+2 Subrankings)

With no more Volcarona in the tier, Moltres finds itself a great niche as a bulky Flame Body Pokemon that can check special attackers like Iron Valiant with its typing and physical attackers that get punished by its Flame Body like Kingambit, Great Tusk, and Zamazenta lacking Stone Edge. It is a little susceptible to techs like Tera or coverage, needs heavy support to switch into Knock Off, and is stretched a little thin trying to handle every threat it tries to at once, but Moltres carves out a solid position worthy of a B+ ranking.

:Iron_Boulder: B+ to B-
(-2 Subrankings)

On the other end of the shift, OU hasn't been kind to Iron Boulder recently; this Pokemon never quite feels strong enough, and there isn't even any niche to pick off a Tera-less boosted Volc any more (as if Volc wasn't just Teraing out of the revenge kill before). It's still a strong offensive sweeper that can clean through a weakened team, but issues with power, coverage, and simply being outclassed lead to Boulder dropping 2 subrankings in this mini shift.

:Slowking_Galar: A+ to S-
(+1 Subranking)

Figured I'd cover our new S- subranking here as we don't have too many changes in this mini shift. Galarian Slowking is our first addition, as maybe the most spammable mon in the tier that seems to be viable on any archetype you want to use it on. No Volc takes some pressure off it although that isn't the main reason for its rise; Slowking-Galar just has an endless pool of HP to draw from, can set up Future Sights and dish out damage whether it's holding Boots or AV, and sees heavy usage in tours and on ladder alike. It also benefits from the rise of another Pokemon that it (kinda) checks that we'll talk about next.

:Zamazenta: A+ to S-
(+1 Subranking)

Our other rise to S- comes from Zamazenta, whose Iron Defense sets have been taking over the tier for a while now. 4 attack variants still find use, with both IronPress and offensive sets able to drop Stone Edge to more comfortably run Heavy Slam and even Ice Fang now while Tera Fire is only really needed for Dragapult's Will-O-Wisp. A swing of the needle towards more offensive builds that Zama can tear through rather than the defensive structures that hold it back makes it stronger than ever, maybe even competing for a spot as the best Fighting-type in the tier.

:Great_Tusk: S to S-
(-1 Subranking)

Though still a pivotal presence in the metagame, Great Tusk is no longer the essential centrepiece that can be tacked onto any team for as many roles in one as you can think of. Tusk faces stiff competition from other bulky Ground-types that don't stack particularly well with it, struggles defensively to take on everything it's tasked with, and struggles offensively to break through and accomplish much without losing too much of its limited health. This Pokemon is still in S- for a reason as the most consistent form of removal in the tier and a blanket check to a good chunk of physical attackers, but it's at the bottom of the top 3 right now and might even be close to losing its place in it.

As always, we'll have ~24 hours for the council to answer questions in the thread. Be sure to check the Major Changes spoiler tag to see if your question has been answered there, or search for it in this thread if not. As this is only a mini shift, some minor changes have not been covered in full, but stay tuned for more in future as the meta keeps developing!
 
I agree with the OU Council that Zamazenta is the best Fighting-type Pokemon in OU. It just checks so much more defensively compared to Great Tusk with the much higher speed and fewer weaknesses since it doesn't have the Ground type's weaknesses and can boost its defensive and offensive potential (through Body Press) quickly. I believe Zamazenta is one of the main reasons for the OU tier's (not bad) playability right now, and the meta would be a lot worse without it.
 
Why didnt primarina rise?? It is a super consistent mon that checks several top mons and is one of the best offensive mons esp with how versatile it is whether its sub cm tera ghost to murder stall or boots pivot to av to even specs being really good..
It feels like its one of the most defining and important mons as the efficacy at which it checks so much is only matched with her in battle performance...
 
Any particular reason why Slither Wing remains unranked, or is it just overlooked? It feels like a solid C tier pick right now. Scroll up in the thread for Srn’s insightful comment on this mon.
 
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Why didnt primarina rise?? It is a super consistent mon that checks several top mons and is one of the best offensive mons esp with how versatile it is whether its sub cm tera ghost to murder stall or boots pivot to av to even specs being really good..
It feels like its one of the most defining and important mons as the efficacy at which it checks so much is only matched with her in battle performance...
Just wanted to say that I do def agree with this. Primarina typing is busted in this tier and blanket checks various mons depending on how you ev or the item. The only point I could see against this is the lack of longevity with prim. Like av is busted against most special attackers and same for boots, but unless it has draining kiss, the damage it will take is permanent meaning it will typically check 1-2 mons per game. Still busted definitely but could be an aspect of why it didn't rise.
 
Why Lokix?
:Lokix:: Lokix is fun - I voted D and I think it fits in fine with the rest of the subranking as a mon that can get things done if given the chance but isn't usually optimal. A couple others voted C on Lokix this shift though, so stay tuned in case anyone else chimes in with reasoning for why they like it!

Why did amoonguss rise?
:Amoonguss:: I kinda just find it much more usable than people give it credit for personally, losing Spore definitely sucks but it's still a good bulky set of stats and good typing that can check things while slotting on moves like Synthesis and Toxic to try and make up for it now.

what’s with iron crown remaining in B+?
:Iron_Crown:: Veti mentioned it before but yeah we didn't vote on Crown in this mini slate; I think it's pretty borderline between B+ and A- right now but I could see it rising in future, will definitely keep an eye on it though until we do a full slate!

Why didnt primarina rise??
Just wanted to say that I do def agree with this
:Primarina:: On the other hand, this is a mon that we did vote on; for a little perspective, it got 4 A+ votes and 5 As so it was very close! As one of the people who voted to keep it in A for now, I do think it's really really good - I'd put it on a level slightly above a lot of the things in A because of how much utility it brings and how much it threatens, but I'm not convinced it's as splashable or tier defining as what we have in A+ and above rn. Another mon that I'd be open to pushing up further at some point. It kinda feels to me like a juiced up pre-Home Azu where it trades into everything and it has a ton of utility options (even more bc Flip Turn) while being a threat itself, but a limited health pool and kinda bad PhysDef without investment stops it from being too insane defensively.

Any particular reason why Slither Wing remains unranked, or is it just overlooked?
:Slither_Wing:: Since it's a mini shift and we didn't go over the whole tier comprehensively, this is another thing that wasn't voted on this slate. I do like it though and yeah I could definitely see an argument for it joining its fellow impresser in D at least if not C, I think I'd like to test it out first myself as I haven't seen it too much so it's still mostly good on paper to me!
 
Why did Zapdos end up rising to B+? IMO i think its still a good Pokemon in the tier despite bolt existing, but i generally wonder what cause for Zapdos to rise in this vr slate. Is it due to it being an amazing check to Zama and appreciating Volc being banned, or is it much more ontop of those 2 factors?
 
Why Lokix?
UR was probably already a bit low for it, anything that can put in insane work against an unprepared team probably deserves a rating indicating that it deserves at least minimal teambuilder consideration. If UR was fair before, then my guess would be the general shift towards more offensive teams, its synergy with the better-than-ever :slowking-galar: (both in defensive typing where :lokix: resists all of :slowking-galar:’s weaknesses, although :lokix: is frail enough that this rarely matters, and in that :slowking-galar: provides a slow pivot and much-appreciated future sight support to break through some of the defensive walls that aren’t otherwise scared of :lokix:), and the overall reduction in contact effects present in the meta (while :moltres: and :zapdos: are on the rise, :volcarona: being gone far outweighs this for now, and :landorus-t:’s helmet can be removed by :lokix: himself). Incidentally, its main competitor is probably :slither wing: who ALSO shouldn’t be unranked lol
 
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