Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #1002))

[Heatranator]

-> B+ : Sun has had a pretty bad showing lately. Torkoal plummeted into UU, and Wake would have just barely made the cutoff for OU at a mere 4.627%, and it’s not hard to see why; sun is on the downturn, on account of how irritating it is when the opponent gets a free 1.3x on their Raging Bolts or Tusk which sucks. But it’s not just sun. Wake feels inconsistent—none of its moves feel particularly easy to click into the myriad of threats in the metagame, such as Waterpon and Primarina, which can threaten to squeeze valuable momentum out of the limited turns sun already has. It still has its perks, but it doesn’t really reflect the A ranks.

-> A-: i already sung this mon’s praises in the discussion thread, but to recap, this pokemon is basically just Glowking with offensive pressure—Kyurem check, Future Sighter, pivot—all of which are really good to keep your foot on the gas while still providing defensive utility. It’s really good on BO teams with Lando-T and friends, so give it a shot.

I think you more mean that torkoal 'would' have fallen to UU but potato 'potato' (hard to say that phrase on the internet). I do agree with those takes though.

I have been messing around with some lower tier mons, so I'm going to suggest them rising.

-> B/B+
Volcanion is an absolute beast in this meta, but not on the team styles that you would think. Sure, on more bulkier teams it can definetely do well (which I believe it is usually put on, though correct me if I am wrong) , but on faster paced teams it does amazingly. This is simply because with tera ground, it sits on rain and other fast mons forever. Bolt can't do much to it as you will be clicking tera ground and then earth power'ing that bastard into oblivion. On g-terrain teams, it can especially work well since barra is the only thing that can naturally outspeed hawlucha. On faster paced teams, these extremely fast threats are usually their downfall, but volcanion patches those matchups up nicely while not lacking offensively. It also checks a lot of threats while being massively threatening offensively. Only really dragon types like switching in, most of which don't like getting burned. They all can't really do much to volcanion without being predictable, leading to easy switches. On the defensive side, it is a really good check to waterpon, ghold, zamazenta, mola, primarina, weavile and more. It overall has a lot of defensive and offensive utility that people should try out.

-> C/C+ (or B-)
Been using sandy shocks as an offensive lead, and it absolutely slaps. With good stab coverage and spikes/stealth rocks (please stop using tera blast ice, sure you snipe a gliscor or two, but its not worth it), it can set momentum of the game really easily while still being offensively threatening. Unlike some other booster energy mons, it also isn't the worst thing in the world if it has to switch out, as a ground typing means that it can switch into raging bolt, a mon which is top tier rn. Earth power easily 2hit kos it while dragon pulse never ohkos. This forces it to tera fairy, but its still taking 80% from the exchange, leaving it to be revenge killed by faster priority. However, if you want to go for a different route, there is the AV set, which is killer. With tera water, sandy shocks can soft check a lot of mons while still being offensively threatening. Rain teams hate this mon, and sun teams don't like a bulky mon which can threaten a lot of the team for big damage. It's basically a stuff you to weather teams. Overall, sandy shocks is a mon that can go in two different directions but can still be a valuable team member.

-> B+/A-
Yes, corviknight, a lower tier mon. Anyways, others have nominated it for A- and I absolutely agree. It is one of the best defensive mons in the tier, being able to take all physical attackers not named gouging fire and cinderace. It can also take on quite a few special attackers and u-turn out into something else. It can also customise its moveset to a good degree. Really, only roost is mandatory. Any of body press, brave bird, u-turn, iron defense, iron head and even taunt or bulk up can be used in the moveslots. Defog is nice as hazard removal, though sometimes it can feel like it doesn't pull its weight. I don't know if I explained this too well, but corv is basically a great defensive mon that is suprisingly customisable.

-> B/B+
Skarmory is basically a slightly worse corv, so I think it should always be a tier lower. Of course, skarm does have things it doesn't have that corv does. The three main things it doesn't have is special bulk, u-turn and defog. Now, these are big things it doesn't have, but skarmory does have a few good traits that corv can't replicate. Firstly, and most importantly of all, skarmory has spikes. This may not seem like much since everything and their mother got spikes this gen, but a non-ground type getting spikes is a trait it only really shares with deo-s and glimm in OU (meow and waterpon ain't using spikes). Glimm and Deo-S are dedicated to more offensive teams (though they certaintly can work outside of them) so Skarm mostly has free rain on more bulkier teams. Spikes means that it can almost always make progress against a team even if they stay in. It also has sturdy+higher physical bulk. Sturdy allows skarm to soft check basically everything in the tier as long as rocks are not up while higher physical bulk means not only is body press doing more damage, but it can take on purely physical attackers much better. If you support skarm with a good special wall, like glowking, then it can thrive.

 

[Venuesaur]

-> B/B+
Skarmory is basically a slightly worse corv, so I think it should always be a tier lower. Of course, skarm does have things it doesn't have that corv does. The three main things it doesn't have is special bulk, u-turn and defog. Now, these are big things it doesn't have, but skarmory does have a few good traits that corv can't replicate. Firstly, and most importantly of all, skarmory has spikes. This may not seem like much since everything and their mother got spikes this gen, but a non-ground type getting spikes is a trait it only really shares with deo-s and glimm in OU (meow and waterpon ain't using spikes). Glimm and Deo-S are dedicated to more offensive teams (though they certaintly can work outside of them) so Skarm mostly has free rain on more bulkier teams. Spikes means that it can almost always make progress against a team even if they stay in. It also has sturdy+higher physical bulk. Sturdy allows skarm to soft check basically everything in the tier as long as rocks are not up while higher physical bulk means not only is body press doing more damage, but it can take on purely physical attackers much better. If you support skarm with a good special wall, like glowking, then it can thrive.

Not to nitpick but skarm is already B+ on the VR

 

[BradenBmw]

Am i the only one who finds it weird that cinder is in b+ and meow is in a-? I feel like it should be swapped i think cinderace is easier to slot on teams and although meow is better if you want speed control with scarf or wall breaking with band, i think cinder is much better than meow with a hdb pivot set and overall provides more utility to a team.

 

[Heatranator]

Not to nitpick but skarm is already B+ on the VR

Oh yeah. Idk why I forgot that lmao

 

[Zer0]

-> S

This pokemon is just, simply put, incredible. It blanket checks so many physical attackers in the metagame with its ID set alone and can beat most setup sweepers through roar(which is absolutely the crown jewel on its ID sets). However, AOA sets are very good too, being able to maximize its coverage and power while still being able to utilize Dauntless Shield once to check physical attackers and also deliver some of the best speed control within the metagame. Some other unexplored options like Choice Band could be quite effective as well but ill probably talk about that another day. In short, Zama is a very incredible pokemon and imo deserves to rise to S.

-> A+

So many people have talked about nominating this Pokemon and honestly i agree so much since Darkrai has been establishing itself as one of the best wallbreakers in SV OU and deservingly so, considering how amazing of a Pokemon it is. The discovery of 4 Attack sets helped it out a lot since it can naturally dish out huge damage with just the set of Dpulse, Sludge Bomb, Focus Blast, and Ice Beam backed by Life Orb or Expert Belt alone(HDB are also good on this set but Darkrai really loves the power boost of those 2). But Nasty Plot sets are quite amazing too since Darkrai just becomes an extremely scary breaker after a boost and becomes almost unwallable due to how hard it hits. Im not big on scarf darkrai but i do think its good as speed control since it can naturally outspeed the entire SV OU metagame with Choice Scarf alone as well as acting as a good revenge killer due to its great coverage and speed while also packing Trick to ruin defensive walls like Blissey and Dondozo. Overall tho, i think Darkrai is thoroughly an amazing Pokemon in SV OU and im glad to see its having so much success than ever before.

 

[MilkyWay]

Blissey in B- looks out of place to me so I’d like to nom it to B.

My understanding is that Blissey is (essentially) mandatory on stall, and stall seems at least as good as rain and sand as a playstyle (Pelipper, Barra, Ttar, exca are all B rank).

Admittedly stall isn’t an amazing playstyle this gen, but I’ve consistently seen it succeed at high levels and Blissey is an integral part of these teams.

On the other hand, I haven’t seen people use stuff like Blaziken, excadrill, Keldeo etc. consistently at high levels nearly as often as Blissey, so it seems weird that they’re all ranked in B above it.

 

[ausma]

The OU VR council is currently conducting a mini vote so we can ensure the resource is polished before the start of WCOP. Because this is a smaller update I'm going to be keeping the thread open. So, this is your best opportunity to make a nomination! I'll try to have this updated by the end of the weekend.

 

[1LDK]

Yeah, I have a few ideas for noms


Rises:

A- ------> A

Anyone who knows me knows I FUCKING HATE MIX SETS, because most of the time, you are not achieving maximum power, you're just stretching too thin, and one mistake spells your doom, because you are not focusing in the strenghts, you're just trying to cover everything, but you can't. Which is why I LOVE MIXED DEOXYS-S, yes that's right, I love a mix set, this case is special because you're not trying to achieve max power, you're trying to achieve max utility, specific get off me tools, deoxys just so happens to do best when using it as a softener, a mon that can put decent damage while also scaring PARTICULAR stuff (like stall with stab + knock + superpower) and gliscor with ice beam, which makes it a godsend for fat balance, and offensive teams can just change one move for spikes and there ya go buddy, free layers while getting some pressure on. Mix deoxys works because you actually maximize what you're trying to do

B- ------->B+/A-

Fucking Flame Fishing, its ability to AT WORST trade itself for a dangerous sweeper by existing is amazing, being able to punish almost every single top physical attacker barring ogerpon-wellspring is incredible, and even then, you can just tera and troll that bitch too with burns, people are also experimenting with roar variants, which I haven't seen with my own eyes, but from what I know it functions like roar zama, sweeper denial, overall, this thing is a huge roadblock


Drops

S--------> A+

This one is probably the hotest take I have, Great Tusk is the fucking adv magneton of the gen, let's face it, with how fucking rancid is the state of the hazard metamost of the time you want this as a spinning machine with some extra utilery, the BU Sets are the exception, but they require either sun or booster, and since DLC, this thing's defensive typing has gotten worse and worse, so you're essentially forced to put 3 moves in (ground + anti gliscor + spin) and then add either rocks (if nothing else in your team can, and I hate rocks tusk because it can't stay on longer battles) and you're forced to run boots, or you get fucked by hazards regardless. This thing is hard carried by spin

A ------> A-

This one is kind of a hot take too, but my problem with this mon specifically is that it has ungodly 4MSS, You want Ceases, water stab and knock off to actually do your job, and you have so much useful stuff in encore, sd, flip turn, priorities, sometimes you really miss something, don't get me wrong this thing is still a godsend for BO, but idk, I guess this is just me nitpicking

A- ------> B-

Despite what people might tell you, this thing has 4 items syndrome, she wants band, scarf and boots, and if you run the wrong matchup with the wrong item meow is fucking useless. There are a lot more knock off users, way more pivots and way better grass types, it is super specific and not worth it much of the time

B+ ------> C+

Honestly this mon fell so fucking off, it gets revenged killed by most things and pre sd does as much damage as a cheeseburger, it only fits on some specific HOs, and it just doesn't compare to the stuff in B+

B+ -------> F-

I'm not gonna stop hating on this thing

 

[658Greninja]

B+ -------> F-

I'm not gonna stop hating on this thing

Most of these I agree with (tho the Meow nom is harsh)

But you are really underselling the value of

Slow defensive pivots are incredible in this meta (as seen with Gking/Mola) and have some notably good matchups.

PhysD Corv has good matchups into

While SpD Corv has good matchups into

(boots)

Even if Corv doesn’t beat all these directly, it can u-turn on them to bring in a mon that does. Like U-Turning on Gliscor to bring in your Kyurem. It also has solid matchups into most hazard setters and could Defog surprisingly reliably.

“B..But what about Ghold?”

Firstly, Corv doesn’t have to be your only hazard removal. Secondly, wanna know a secret?

Pair it with something that punishes Ghold and its teammates.

You see Ghold, U-Turn on that mfer.

BOOM! Free Spikes with Samu.

BOOM! Free progress with Darkrai.

BOOM! Free kill with Hoopa.

Corv pairs well with powerful wallbreakers and progress makers. It is helped by having several free entry points vs bulkier builds, thus it can bring them in safely without risking them getting statused. This is especially important vs SD Gliscor who is one of the hardest mons to regularly check.

I think that’s fine enough to stay in B+ or even rise.

 

[1LDK]

Pair it with something that punishes Ghold and its teammates.

You see Ghold, U-Turn on that mfer.

>He fell for the U-turn on Ghold meme
You cannot be serious

Okay let's say you p i v o t i n to the ghold switching, congrats you did fucking 6%, now your switching is taking spikes, rocks, webs, tspikes, pledges AND emotional damage, AND the incoming sball, and he has recover so your chip damage usually means spit. Unless you're packing boots, and even then you basically have corv as a glorified eject button. Because it sucks at walling EVERYTHING barring tusk, meow and rilla (even gambit can brute force it if you're slow on the draw)

While SpD Corv has good matchups into

(boots)

Spedef corv is a bigger meme, you now can't even check physical attackers and most of these pack coverage anyway. It is incredibly passive in every single aspect of the word and if your team cannot break through corv your team is bad and should go to the trash

I'm aware I'm not changing anyone's mind, but I have a right to hate, and I'm going to use it

 

[Moyashi]

Okay let's say you p i v o t i n to the ghold switching, congrats you did fucking 6%, now your switching is taking spikes, rocks, webs, tspikes, pledges AND emotional damage, AND the incoming sball, and he has recover so your chip damage usually means spit. Unless you're packing boots, and even then you basically have corv as a glorified eject button. Because it sucks at walling EVERYTHING barring tusk, meow and rilla (even gambit can brute force it if you're slow on the draw)

Sorry but this is a really comical overexaggeration. SamH is a great boots user which means lol @ those spikes and rocks. TSpikes mainly come from Glimmora whcih isn't even used on as many Gholdengo teams as before (and get soaked up by teammates anyways so).

I know you love to shout your hate for Corv from the rooftops but try not to make stuff up that just isn't true.You didn't even counter what Greninja said to their list of what it checked, just said "it no walls stuff" and didn't argue how this was true. Fact is, it's helpful against a lot of stuff. Hardly permanent, but it's a good buffer for things that can be overwhelming at times, even if temporarily. Saying Gambit can brute force under some circumstances is disingenous. Yeah it can, it does to most things. But that's not every instance, and in most instances Corv is a very helpful back up check to it.

Spedef corv is a bigger meme, you now can't even check physical attackers and most of these pack coverage anyway. It is incredibly passive in every single aspect of the word and if your team cannot break through corv your team is bad and should go to the trash

It's not really. Spdef Corv gives up the ability to check some threats (Roaring Moon the biggest one since +1 knock bops it from higher health but also Weavile and Samurott), but otherwise it offers a nice helpful answer to stuff that is really annoying to switch into (Boots Kyurem, DeoS, Hatterene, some Darkrai variants. It's not as widely applicable but it's no meme. You're free to disagree and not like the mon, no one can stop you, but it's not very productive to be disingenuous about it and make claims that just aren't true.

 

[658Greninja]

>He fell for the U-turn on Ghold meme
You cannot be serious

Okay let's say you p i v o t i n to the ghold switching, congrats you did fucking 6%, now your switching is taking spikes, rocks, webs, tspikes, pledges AND emotional damage, AND the incoming sball, and he has recover so your chip damage usually means spit. Unless you're packing boots, and even then you basically have corv as a glorified eject button. Because it sucks at walling EVERYTHING barring tusk, meow and rilla (even gambit can brute force it if you're slow on the draw)

I won’t try to change your mind but my point wasn’t that Corv can chip Ghold with U-Turn, it was what it brings in. Lets say I bring in Corv, and you switch to Ghold only to be U-Turn’d on. Now Samu, Darkrai, and/or Hoopa can come in to break something on the team. This is also not a huge problem since Boots is incredible on Samu/Rai anyways.

Spedef corv is a bigger meme, you now can't even check physical attackers and most of these pack coverage anyway. It is incredibly passive in every single aspect of the word and if your team cannot break through corv your team is bad and should go to the trash

I'm aware I'm not changing anyone's mind, but I have a right to hate, and I'm going to use it

Yes it doesn’t check physical attackers as well anymore, but that can be accommodated by pairing it with another physical wall. Those aren’t rare in OU. Checks to Darkrai are rarer and more appreciated as it rose in usage. Even without much investment, Corv still does its job checking Rilla and non-Fire Punch Dnite.

Deo-S and Val don’t commonly run Tbolt. Deo-S simply doesn’t have room for it over Ice Beam/Superpower/Rocks/Knock/etc. Hatt sometimes drops Mystical Fire for Nuzzle. Enamorus even with Mystical Fire still doesn’t break Corv.

252+ SpA Enamorus Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 148-176 (37 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Also as proof that SpD Corv can soft-check Darkrai.

252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 109-129 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Even if Darkrai is Nasty Plot, Corv can eat 1 Dpulse and U-Turn into say…Dragapult to threaten a rkill.

I won’t harp on this for long since an update is coming, but yeah, I think Corv is still neat.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Rises:

B- ------->B+/A-

Fucking Flame Fishing, its ability to AT WORST trade itself for a dangerous sweeper by existing is amazing, being able to punish almost every single top physical attacker barring ogerpon-wellspring is incredible, and even then, you can just tera and troll that bitch too with burns, people are also experimenting with roar variants, which I haven't seen with my own eyes, but from what I know it functions like roar zama, sweeper denial, overall, this thing is a huge roadblock

100% agree with this. The threat of Flame Body burns deters a lot of top Physical Pokemon from committing to attacks. Going Tera Grass makes Moltres one of the more unique checks to Wogerpon.

With that said, I think Moltres should really only rise to B instead of B+. Its defensive profile is entirely reliant on HDB, and several key Pomemon it checks (GT, Woger, Rilla, etc.) run Knock Off. You can mitigate that with Knock absorbers (Clef, Glisc, Alo) but losing HDB in a situation where you should be able to check a Pokemon can completely mess up a team's defensive dynamic

 

[TheDuckChris]

Corv is good right now imo

Agree:
up
down
up
down

New:
down - it's a decent physical wall that doesn't really stop the most dangerous physical attackers and can't do too much back to things like kyurem and friends, easily pivoted on by Lando and Glowking. It's just not that good
up - yes it's a single archetype pokemon but its archetype is one of the better ho's right now and especially on builds with real pokemon and not manaphy

 

[Heatranator]

down - it's a decent physical wall that doesn't really stop the most dangerous physical attackers and can't do too much back to things like kyurem and friends, easily pivoted on by Lando and Glowking. It's just not that good

I personally disagree with this one. Zapdos doesn't necessarily auto wall against physical attackers the same way Moltres does, but it still can be threatening to physical sweepers with static. There are some things that can kinda wall it, but either they can't do much in return (lando) or are not really threatening it (glowking). Stuff like kyurem doesn't like switching into Zapdos since a para from discharge or even t-wave cripples them immensely.
I also disagree with the notion that the most dangerous physical attackers aren't really stopped by it. Moon can never ohko the standard Zapdos set from full with +1 knock off and has to risk a static proc, which is devestating for its sweep. Waterpon is threatened immensely by hurricane on zap, which is most likely an OHKO and max defense zap can live a +2 ivy cudgel. Kingambit has to also risk a static proc, though that isn't as bad as other physical attackers. Dragonite can use ice spinner on it, sure, but that never ohko's and it again has to risk static. Zama can't do anything to Zapdos, unless it techs stone edge which is rare. Gliscor can do a decent amount to it, but zap can always love 2 +2 facades and fire back with hurricane (this is using max defense, which I feel is underrated)
Overall, I think you are under selling Zapdos as while it does have some bad matchups, at worst it can shoot for a static proc. At best, it can be an annoying wall that can still be offensively threatening.

 

[Tysonslayer]

Rises:

A -> A+
Primarina is a versatile mon, good defensively and offensively, and has a great move pool to back it up. Encore, Psychic Noise, Flip Turn, and Draining Kiss are significant aspects of running Calm Mind sets. Assault Vest feels a bit weaker than these, yet it is still helpful in being able to check pesky special attackers like Darkrai and Walking Wake, and an incredible defensive typing to help check top offensive threats like Zamazenta, Gouging Fire, and Weavile. It is an overall solid mon that fits into many different archetypes and continues to be explored, fulfilling new sets and roles that it can provide for many teams alike.

A- -> A
Deoxys-Speed is yet another versatile mon; offensive sets are really thriving right now thanks to the ability to go mixed with great coverage to help it boot, and it hits hard whether u play it safe with boots or much more immediately threatening with Life Orb or Expert Belt. Every week, there's a new set that may seem specific but contributes a lot and adds to the effectiveness of how versatile this mon can be offensively. Even lead sets or screen setter are still valuable thanks to the incredible speed and abundance of utility omves makes it a decent picks for hyper offense teams. Deoxys-Speed may have had a rocky hall at the beginning of the DLC, and right now is thriving and will continue to thrive.

B+ -> A-
I’m not going to echo what has been discussed earlier. Still, I would like to mention that we are a bit understanding Corviknight’s ability to run mixed defense while committing to one side of defense helps it cover different things, depending on what you need. Mixed defense is much better since you also run multiple defensive answers for certain mons. It helps it a lot in being able to take hits and pivot accordingly against plentiful of mons such as Iron Valiant, Ogerpon-Wellspring, Roaring Moon, and Deoxys-Speed is a great attribute to have an improve in a bunch of unfavorable matchups that committing to one side of defense can hurt. Also, if you have another hazard removal or running boots spam, do consider 3 attacks: Corviknight, as Brave Bird helps it a lot to deal some progress against Ogerpon-Wellspring, Dragapult, and non-Iron Defense Zamazenta, it's still an alright defogger, but those moves are better then Iron Defense.

Drops:
A+ -> A
I don’t think Raging Bolt is bad, but I also don’t believe it is A+ compared to the rest of the other mons listed in the same rank. Most teams are starting to use specially defensive ground types a lot more, or a combination of bulky ground and great special defensive mon. This being prevalent hurts it in the long and it doesn’t help that it’s vulnerable to getting worn down since you want Booster Energy to deal more damage or Lefties for some type of longevity on Calm Mind sets or the power of Choice Specs. It’s reliance on Thunderclap not to get revenge killed and a move that can be punished with the abundance of Grounds or quicker mons using their priority. It is a strong and relevant mon, but I wouldn’t consider it A+.

B > B- / C+
On paper, Hydrapple has a lot going for it: Regenerator, great physical bulk alongside Special Attack. But its typing and reliance on Tera to have better matchups due to its typing hurts it a lot while also competing as a "bulky" special attacker. Better picks include Raging Bolt, Kyurem, hell, and even slight niche options like mixed Hoopa-Unbound and Volcanion. This issue has led it to be regulated to fit on fatter teams as a knock absorber with Sticky Hold, but the same problem still relies on and even is no longer considered due to the flaws it struggles with.

D -> UR
Discount Darkai. Hydriegon has some decent traits but is overlooked when it has a bit of 4MSS. You want Nasty Plot, maybe Substitute to make predicting easy, but then you can’t fit the proper coverage it needs like Earth Power, Flash Cannon, Flamethrower, and of course STABs.
It's stuck in an awkward speed tier, which leaves it prone to get revenge kills, which doesn’t help its ability as a breaker.

D -> UR
Use any other bulky water type. The one quality that Milotic has is that it can check Primarina; besides that, it's a big do-nothing mon, and you can do a different mon to help check against Primarina. Outclassed by others, it does provide some role compression, but doing two-slotted defensive cores is much safer and beneficial

Other Noms I agree with:

& -> B+ / B

-> B / B-

-> A+

-> A-

-> A-

 

[RS25802580]

A ------> A-

This one is kind of a hot take too, but my problem with this mon specifically is that it has ungodly 4MSS, You want Ceases, water stab and knock off to actually do your job, and you have so much useful stuff in encore, sd, flip turn, priorities, sometimes you really miss something, don't get me wrong this thing is still a godsend for BO, but idk, I guess this is just me nitpicking

I agree with most of these noms expect for this one. 4MSS isn’t really a reason for a drop. If anything, it means Hamurott has tons of tools and is therefore customizable to the team it’s on. You already listed most of useful options that Hamurott has so I’m not gonna repeat those. I do want to mention that besides being strong into Gambit/Ghold, Hamurott also has a great matchup versus the rising threat Deoxys (that I agree with you should be nommed higher). Hamurott lives a fully Atk invested DeoS Superpower and OHKO’s back with Edge, following up with Aqua Jet if Sash. This makes it very good against offensive lead Deo.

Lastly, it’s so damm versatile. All those utility and attacking opinions you mentioned? Well Hamurott can capitalize on those choices to be a Sash lead, boots pivot, AV pivot, or Scarfer. I’ve seem all these sets used effectively. This makes it very versatile and also less predictable.

TLDR: Don’t drop Hamurott, it’s still the top otter!

 

[Madam Ferix]

Since there's been alot of recent posts, I'll try to talk about mons that haven't been brough up as of recently...

Rises:

A+ ----> S-
You know a mon is glowing up when they rise in all levels of play. As a speed check, Setup, Anti-Setup, and flexible offensive Pokemon, Zama nearly does it all. It's hard to imagine most offensive builds these days without one, and the uptick in balance has also given Zama it's own dog house. Having their biggest problems being mild 4MSS and sometimes not outspeeding important targets (Booster Energy and Pult) are good issues to have. This guy's pretty nuts, friends.

A ----> A+
Likely a controversal pick, but Glimm's nearly stubborn resilience to staying meta relevant is absolutely worthy of bringing attention towards. They continue to be the best lead in the tier, but there's also been alot of new developments in the likes of Red Card, Meteor Beam, and even Balance! We've been seeing Glimm usage rise slowly in the past few months, with even seeing them as common as Top 5 in usage (according to recent Pikalytics' stats). This mon alone is one of the big reasons why boots spam is a popular strategy, and it's likely that Glimm will continue to have, at minimum, a looming pressence for the rest of Gen 9.

B ----> B+/A-
This thing is actually capable of completely shutting down certain team comps and it's not even funny. Most of the common sample teams (Such as Triple Dark along with many of the Kyurem and overal offensive teams) are nearly at the mercy of this one Pokemon. They two-shot almost the entire meta and have a terrifying priority move in Vaccum Wave, as if their speed wasn't already impressive enough. The two things that can set them back are their slightly limited movepool (which is countered by having one of the best offensive typings in the meta), and being kinda frail. Even then, they're still a scary wallbreaker that, in my opinion, deserves a placement above other offensive mons such as Ursa, Iron Boulder, and Serperior.

B ----> B+
Another underrated pick. Even with Dark types currently dominating, Sinistcha is an amazing glue against everything that isn't said type. They're fairly one-note and are kinda slow, but have several traits you're not going to find anywhere else in the tier. Thing such as spin-blocking while being resistant to Tusk, a powerful signature move that can break both stall and balance with a little bit of luck, an ability that negates a key weakness (and can become a resist with tera), and being able to check any cheesy IDBP sets, which several OU-viable mons frequently run. Oh, and Strength Sap. That move is kinda insane.

Drops:

A- ----> B+
While still providing strong utility with Unaware + Burns, and a cascading signature move that takes advantage of it's bulk + ability, Skeledirge is falling out of favor in teams where they're typically mostly seen. Stall already has a handful of other Unaware mons to choose from, and the burns can get in the way of things like Gliscor's Toxic or Blissey's T-Wave. Along with being somewhat of a Tera hog, Skele is starting to lose some of their flare (and not just because they're all Fairy types now), and I expect this trend to continue unless future bans or big meta developments are made.

B ---> B-
For the first time ever, Latios' sister is proving to be the more popular pick out of the two. Latios' speed just isn't that impressive anymore, and is a much worse abuser of Tera than the other twin (which is part of the reason why she was banned in UU, but y'know). I don't think Latios is a bad mon, you can definitely make them work, but I do think there is enough of a gap between the two where it should be reflected in the rankings.

B+ ----> B/B-
Poor Serpy fell off kinda hard. What was initially seen as a powerful and nearly problematic mon in OU has become a gimmicky, predictable sweeper that runs out of steam quickly, and is forced to make sacrifices for each item they want to hold. Glare will always have a niche in the tier, and Serperior utilizes it to good effect, but there are other mons that can do more than just inflict status and maybe get a kill. They're also another tera hog and capitalize it way less than other hogs such as Moon, Iron Moth, Dragonite, and Gambit. Oof.

C ----> D
I have not seen a single Kingdra since Arch's ban, and I've seen my fair share of rain teams. I'm not even sure why they're here when Walking Wake's also right there. Outspeeding? Buddy, you have a Spd 800+ propeller fish you can just run Wake as a specs wallbreaker or something. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I just don't see the value in Kingdra right now. Sorry.

Other noms I agree on:

& A- ----> B+

A ----> A+

A- ----> B

C ----> C+

D ----> UR

D ----> UR

 

[Zer0]

B ----> B+/A-
This thing is actually capable of completely shutting down certain team comps and it's not even funny. Most of the common sample teams (Such as Triple Dark along with many of the Kyurem and overal offensive teams) are nearly at the mercy of this one Pokemon. They two-shot almost the entire meta and have a terrifying priority move in Vaccum Wave, as if their speed wasn't already impressive enough. The two things that can set them back are their slightly limited movepool (which is countered by having one of the best offensive typings in the meta), and being kinda frail. Even then, they're still a scary wallbreaker that, in my opinion, deserves a placement above other offensive mons such as Ursa, Iron Boulder, and Serperior.

B ---> B-
For the first time ever, Latios' sister is proving to be the more popular pick out of the two. Latios' speed just isn't that impressive anymore, and is a much worse abuser of Tera than the other twin (which is part of the reason why she was banned in UU, but y'know). I don't think Latios is a bad mon, you can definitely make them work, but I do think there is enough of a gap between the two where it should be reflected in the rankings.

i agree with both of these very much so. i think Keldeo is dangerous into many builds that are weak to it (I:E Triple Dark and many Kyurem/Offensive builds that dont have Glowking/Prima) and even if they have Glowking or Prima, they're just one pokemon away from getting ran over by this Pokemon. its great STABs, good natural bulk, and access to both priority in Vacuum Wave to pick off faster weakened Dark Pokemon such as Meowscarada, Darkrai, and boosted Kingambit as well as having access to Flip Turn to gain momentum against anything that isnt a water absorb Clodsire and Ogerpon-W are great traits in general and i do think Keld is underrated in Gen9 OU. It of coourse has problems with the fact that it cant really do much great into certain builds such as Stall as well as the fact that many pokemon check it in the metagame such as, but certainly not limited to, Prima, Glowking, Dragapult, Ogerpon-W, and Rillaboom, to say nothing that how its speed tier(which once was impressive) isnt insanely good in Gen9 OU, but other than these minor flaws that can be fixed on a good team that can slot in Keldeo, i still think Keldeo is good enough to at least rise to B+ due to the aftermentioned traits it has.

i been really waiting for this, but I really dont get the hyper around Latios(or should i say: Fraudios) and i dont think its really that good in Gen9 OU at all despite it having good traits that breakers like Kyurem and Dragapult wishes they could have(such as having better speed and power, respectively.) just because he loses hard to many offensive/defensive Pokemon in the metagame(examples can include Kingambit, Ting-Lu, Blissey, Ghold, Weavile, Darkrai, etc) Sure he has levitate and flip turn as well as the buffed luster purge, but its not like Dragapult(and to a lesser extent, Keldeo) could run pivot moves on their Specs sets themselves. Plus, Luster Purge feels like a completely coin flip against any bulky Pokemon that Latios is trying to break through(i:e Galarian Slowking, or just steel-types like Ghold and Corv since it can try to muscle past through them) and when that coin is going to land on the unfavorable side, its just a complete recipe for disaster and its just a moment where i say to myself "why am i not running Dragapult or Kyurem as my breaker which would've been more consistent overall?". His speed also really isnt that good anymore(compare to previous gens of OU like 5 and 6) and either gets outsped and KO'd by many booster mons like Moon, Val, or even Boulder, or just outsped by naturally fast pokemon such as Darkrai and Dragapult. Idk, maybe its just me, but i just think that Latios isnt that good in SV OU since his flaws outweigh his benefits as a breaker compare to both Pult and Kyurem

TLDR: Keldeo is goated and underrated in Gen9 OU due to its good traits it brings to the table, thus deserves to rise to at least B+(tho A- is also very solid as well). While Latios is just mediocre due to how many flaws he has despite him having good traits that Kyurem and pult wishes they could have, and thus deserves to drop back to B- .

 

[Moyashi]

i been really waiting for this, but I really dont get the hyper around Latios(or should i say: Fraudios) and i dont think its really that good in Gen9 OU at all despite it having good traits that breakers like Kyurem and Dragapult wishes they could have(such as having better speed and power, respectively.) just because he loses hard to many offensive/defensive Pokemon in the metagame(examples can include Kingambit, Ting-Lu, Blissey, Ghold, Weavile, Darkrai, etc) Sure he has levitate and flip turn as well as the buffed luster purge, but its not like Dragapult(and to a lesser extent, Keldeo) could run pivot moves on their Specs sets themselves. Plus, Luster Purge feels like a completely coin flip against any bulky Pokemon that Latios is trying to break through(i:e Galarian Slowking, or just steel-types like Ghold and Corv since it can try to muscle past through them) and when that coin is going to land on the unfavorable side, its just a complete recipe for disaster and its just a moment where i say to myself "why am i not running Dragapult or Kyurem as my breaker which would've been more consistent in this game?". His speed also really isnt that good anymore(compare to previous gens of OU like 5 and 6) and either gets outsped and KO'd by many booster mons like Moon, Val, or even Boulder, or just outsped by naturally fast pokemon such as Darkrai and Dragapult. Idk, maybe its just me, but i just think that Latios isnt that good in SV OU since his flaws outweigh his benefits as a breaker compare to both Pult and Kyurem

Not really? Levitate is huge in a generation where Spikes are more prevalent than ever, which allows it to run non boots items and thus be less affected by hazards in general outside of rocks. Latios also packs longevity if it ops to run it in Recover which gives it invaluable defensive utility that lets it repeatedly check certain threats you might use Kyurem or Dragapult for, who can only do so a couple times (the former due to rocks weakness and the latter due to its average bulk). Latios also packs powerful disruptive tools in Psychic Noise which is greatly irritating for defensive pokemon attempting to switch in, and yes the buffed Luster Purge which outside immunities is actually quite difficult to actually pivot into without fat resists or a Blissey (who is relegated to stall teams). You're also weirdly downplaying Luster Purge as if it's more likely to be useless. 50% chance to proc is absolutely massive.

Yeah yeah Speed isn't as fast, but it's solid relative to other breakers and it compresses valuable defensive use on top of that power. It isn't the easiest to fit, but it's a decent pokemon in the tier and it's fine where it is on the VR.

 

[Zer0]

Not really? Levitate is huge in a generation where Spikes are more prevalent than ever, which allows it to run non boots items and thus be less affected by hazards in general outside of rocks. Latios also packs longevity if it ops to run it in Recover which gives it invaluable defensive utility that lets it repeatedly check certain threats you might use Kyurem or Dragapult for, who can only do so a couple times (the former due to rocks weakness and the latter due to its average bulk). Latios also packs powerful disruptive tools in Psychic Noise which is greatly irritating for defensive pokemon attempting to switch in, and yes the buffed Luster Purge which outside immunities is actually quite difficult to actually pivot into without fat resists or a Blissey (who is relegated to stall teams). You're also weirdly downplaying Luster Purge as if it's more likely to be useless. 50% chance to proc is absolutely massive.

Yeah yeah Speed isn't as fast, but it's solid relative to other breakers and it compresses valuable defensive use on top of that power. It isn't the easiest to fit, but it's a decent pokemon in the tier and it's fine where it is on the VR.

Nah i know Levitate is huge in a generation where spikes are everywhere, thats why i didnt talk down on it because its a good trait that Latios has and i should've clarified the LP part better as i do think Latios can cause havoc on some cores if he always ends up scoring the proc with LP. but it was just the fact that it feels frustrating when he doesnt get the 50% proc since it can feel inconsistent at times. Also, i didnt know he had Psychic Noise(mostly because i never see it, and whenever i see a Latios team they dont run it at all for some reason and i play in 1500-1600 elo range) but maybe next time i try and build latios again i will see how to fit such a move.

 

[Dreadfury]

Oh, we're doing some VR noms? Here are some of mine:

Rises:

B+ --> A

I could settle for A-, but I think Iron Crown is clearly better than most of A- right now. That said, I think A- as a whole needs a bit of reevaluating, but I think that if A- stays mostly similar to how it is now Crown is far, far better than anything there. This mon's meteoric rise has been one of OU's biggest developments in a while, and it's not hard to see why; while it lacks Galarian Slowking's insane longevity and doesn't have quite as fantastic of a typing as Glowking does, Iron Crown makes up for it in other areas by virtue of it being quite fast and very strong. AV is fantastic, Specs is great, Double Dance is still solid on specific HO squads, and as a whole I think Iron Crown has reached full-blown metagame staple status and warrants a bigger rise to reflect this trend.

A+ --> S

While I don't personally think it's broken, Zama is easily one of the best, most important mons in the tier and that's been especially true ever since Volc got banned since now it has a much easier time running more creative sets, chief among them being Roar (which can absolutely obliterate teams on preview sometimes).

A --> A+

Darkrai is one of the best offensive threats in the tier right now, with a bevy of coverage options and some incredible set diversity outside of just its coverage options to boot. Darkrai is a consistent performer from game to game, far more than most offensive threats, and I think it's easily one of the best mons in the tier right now and deserves a rise to reflect this.

A- --> A

Excellent, consistent mon. I think Lead/Screens sets are kinda mediocre right now, but its many, many offensive sets are fantastic and quite difficult to truly account for courtesy of just how many coverage options and items it can run. Another shockingly consistent offensive threat.

B+ --> A-

On the topic of mons I think are worth being in A-, Cinderace is definitely one of them. It's not some world-beater or anything, but it's very consistent and its speed tier, coverage, and utility are nice to have.

B+ --> A-

A common sight on Balance and Stall alike and our only real Defogger. Corv's doing very well in this meta right now and deserves to rise to the A-ranks as a result.

B+ --> A-

A bit of an unorthodox nom, and an unorthodox pick in general, but I think Rockpon has a lot of very desirable qualities in this metagame and deserves a slight jump as well. A lot of mons have leaned towards running Tera Grass and especially Tera Dragon to serve as a defensive answer to the excellent Ogerpon-Wellspring, but the incredible coverage offered by a Rock-type Ivy Cudgel and access to Sturdy to prevent any one clean OHKO from full give Ogerpon-Cornerstone an incredible matchup into bulkier structures we've been seeing so much lately. It also wallops DNite and Kyurem, which Ogerpon-W needs to dedicate a moveslot to handle. Lastly, it has a slight niche as a lead (I know it's used on one of the sample teams as a lead, for instance) since it's got both a fast Taunt and Spikes while still having a built-in Focus Sash courtesy of Sturdy, but I think the SD set is far, far superior and deserves a bit more respect than it's getting.

B- --> B+

Criminally underrated, and I'm glad people are starting to warm up to it now. With Volcarona's ban, Moltres is now the de-facto blanket answer to a large number of physical attackers courtesy of Flame Body and I think a rise is more than warranted due to its elite defensive profile.

B- --> B

Stall isn't amazing in this meta, but I'd argue it's a better playstyle than Snow/Veil, Sand, or Rain right now and Blissey is the archetypical Stall mon. I think it's considerably better than Garchomp, G-Weezing, or Pex right now.

B- --> B or B+

This mon's an incredible wincon right now, and I think it's criminally underrated on this VR even though it has a fair bit of tournament and high ladder success under its belt. Zamazenta being the best it's ever been is huge for Sinistcha; while it doesn't really appreciate Roar too much, Sinistcha uses it as opportunities to fire off a free Matcha Gotcha or just boost in its face since it's naturally immune to Body Press and Crunch/Heavy Slam do nearly nothing in return. This mon is great and should rise, in my opinion quite a bit.

DROPS:

A- --> B

I don't think it's B- worthy, but Meowscarada isn't even close to an A- ranked threat anymore IMO. It's still very good on specific balance structures thanks to its fast Knock, but while its moveset is quite static it really wishes it could run all of Boots, Band, and Scarf and when it runs any of these you really feel the lack of the others, moreso than is the case for most mons. It's not super strong, it's fast but there are a few faster threats, and it's quite easily worn down by hazard chip and you have to accept two of these facts on any given set. Overall, I just don't think Meowscarada is reliable enough to be in the A-ranks, and I don't even think it's as good as anything in B+ right now (hell, I feel like you have more reasons to run Tealpon right now on the same teams Meow functions on).

A --> A-

This is still a really good mon, and I believe it's the de-facto Knock user on hazard stack balance structures which are doing very well thus far, but I don't think it's quite as good as most of the mons it shares A with right now. Its speed tier's a little better than Meowscarada's and it has the ever-valuable Ice Shard to not get rolled by weakened Pult/Moon, but I also don't think it's quite good enough for A right now. I think it's clearly better than most of the current A-, but I also think A- right now is probably the most outdated subrank and I think Weavile's more at home when it's ranked alongside the likes of Enamorus, Clef, Moth, and Dondozo, which I think are mostly appropriately ranked there (maybe Clef could go up).

A- --> B+

Sun's not doing very well at the moment. I don't think this playstyle is bad whatsoever, but it lacks the consistency of an A-rank playstyle. I don't think it should drop below B+ whatsoever since it still has its favorable matchups and since it can be overwhelming with how many offensive threats it can throw at you back to back, but it definitely shouldn't be higher than that either.

A- --> B+ or B

It's a decent spinner on some Sun teams despite Tusk's existence, it's a staple on Rain but Rain's very mediocre right now, and it has some genuinely useful traits over Tusk in general, but I really don't see this being A- right now. I think this and Meow are the most out-of-place mons in A- and should definitely drop a bit.

B+ --> B-

This mon has its place in the metagame, but it's not even remotely close to being a B+ ranked threat. I think Tera Flying with Sub+SD is very slept on right now, but Boulder as a whole just has some massive issues since its damage output leaves a lot to be desired.

D --> UR

Who uses this? Indeedee's already really fringe as far as Terrain setters go since I think PsySpam is very bad at the moment (it's borderline UR-worthy as is), but I genuinely don't feel like this thing is worth the teamslot in an OU context and doesn't justify being ranked anywhere at all. Muk, Iron Jugulis, Thundurus-T, H-Arcanine, H-Goodra, and Wo-Chien are way better than this; I don't exactly like the idea of a D-rank at the best of times (mostly because I'm too used to the Ubers version of D-rank, which is reserved for unviable mons that are just in that tier, and usage-based tiers typically don't have mons like those), but if the rank is to be reserved for extremely fringe but still usable picks the ones I mentioned do a far better job fitting that bill than this garbage. I think Milotic and Hydreigon are also pretty lackluster and probably shouldn't be ranked either, but Pincurchin is the absolute worst offender IMO.

 

[Cancel cult]

Mamoswine C-->C+
I feel like Mamoswine has untapped potential as a special wallbreaker. You might laugh at the possibility of a pokemon with a base special attack stat of 70 being a special wallbreaker, but I have some calcs that may surprise you.

Spoiler

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 464-548 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Def Tera Steel Mamoswine Body Press vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 250-296 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 94-112 (14.4 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 115-136 (17.6 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinderace: 408-482 (135.5 - 160.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 214-253 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 234-276 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 284-336 (61.3 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 144-169 (36 - 42.2%) -- 90.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 184-217 (46 - 54.2%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 225-265 (56.2 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darkrai: 175-207 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darkrai: 214-253 (76.1 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 175-207 (72.6 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-Speed: 214-253 (88.7 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 356-420 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Dragapult: 356-420 (112.3 - 132.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 252-296 (78 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 320-380 (99 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 392-464 (121.3 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Enamorus: 302-356 (104.4 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Garganacl: 260-308 (64.3 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 67-80 (21.2 - 25.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 87-102 (27.6 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 105-125 (33.3 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 348-410 (110.4 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 68-81 (17.9 - 21.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 87-103 (23 - 27.2%) -- 60% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 106-126 (28 - 33.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 350-414 (92.5 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Glimmora: 772-912 (251.4 - 297%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 244 HP / 16 SpD Gliscor: 624-736 (177.2 - 209%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gouging Fire: 342-404 (97.4 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 16 SpD Gouging Fire: 338-398 (81.6 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 416-492 (95.8 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 536-632 (123.5 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 416-492 (112.1 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 282-332 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 157-186 (49.3 - 58.4%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Heatran: 460-544 (119.1 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 600-708 (199.3 - 235.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 428-506 (133.3 - 157.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Iron Valiant: 434-512 (149.6 - 176.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Iron Valiant: 244-288 (84.1 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Iron Valiant: 297-351 (102.4 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 372-438 (109 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 372-438 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 175-207 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 214-253 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 604-712 (189.3 - 223.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Meowscarada: 336-396 (114.6 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 516-612 (171.4 - 203.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 150-176 (46.7 - 54.8%) -- 56.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 222-264 (69.1 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Primarina: 218-260 (59.8 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 356-420 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Raging Bolt: 434-512 (106.6 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ribombee: 384-452 (147.1 - 173.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ribombee: 168-198 (64.3 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ribombee: 214-253 (81.9 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ribombee: 262-310 (100.3 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 338-398 (86.2 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 432-510 (110.2 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 338-398 (99.1 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roaring Moon: 248-294 (70.6 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roaring Moon: 320-378 (91.1 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roaring Moon: 390-458 (111.1 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 356-420 (110.9 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 264-312 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 338-398 (116.1 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 169-199 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 216-255 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 264-312 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 218-260 (55.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 158-188 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 204-240 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 246-290 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 12 SpD Torkoal: 422-500 (123 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Walking Wake: 588-696 (171.9 - 203.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 326-386 (116 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 184-217 (65.4 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 144-169 (37.1 - 43.5%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 175-207 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 144-169 (44.3 - 52%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Mamoswine Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 175-207 (53.8 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[JeebusMcFunk]

Rises

-> S- : This thing is insane and probably one of the best glue mons of all time. Regen/Slow tele will never not be good and Chilly Reception is bonkers when paired with all the solid ice mons in the tier, chiefly Kyurem.

-> A/A- : This has been said but I want to reiterate that this thing can do very very well. He is a supremely strong breaker.

-> A+ :I think it should be agreed Darkrai is likely a borderline top 5 mon at the moment. I can't see much argument against this.

-> A-/B+ : Sinistcha has an unholy amount of things it checks, excellent longevity, and one of the most fun (and rather strong) moves in the game. I think he consistently is the most underrated mon in the meta and is far too low ranked for the success that he has. I urge everyone to test him and realize he certainly deserves a raise, and I would argue a raise even higher than most people are putting him. This is an A- mon. I also agree A- is an outdated rank.

-> A- : Cinderace deserves a raise. He stands as one of the best and most consistent pivots in the game with an incredible ability and court change.

-> A- : Once again, this mon is deserving of a raise. He is horrifically punishing, spreads burns like an absolute beast, and has a fantastic typing.

-> A-/B+ : Yup, I am sold on this guy. I recently started to test him after noticing the recent (semi) hype and realized he is certainly more viable than I first assumed. He checks several powerful mon in the tier and has an ungodly vacuum wave. Maybe more B+ But you could justify an A-.

-> B : Actually not sure why she would be B-. She is essential for stall. Honestly, her and Dondozo should just be ranked together but regardless, she probably belongs higher up.

/ -> A- Base ogerpon fans rejoice, your mon is actually underrated in my opinion. Alongside the rock form, these mons are simply outshined by their clearly superior water based cousin. Still, they serve a lot of use and act much like Wogerpon.

Here's some controversial Ones

-> A : I know, this seems very high. But consider this: Clodsire is useful in more than stall. In stall he is amazing with Unaware of course, but to deny his usefulness as a complete shut down to water moves and, especially, rain teams is crazy to me. In BO or Balance teams he provides amazing checks and coverage, longevity, and can hazard if he wants to. You can safely run Water Absorb with his bulk (not on stall teams where Unaware is obviously needed) I know this will likely not happen, but I cannot stress enough how good Clod feels to run. He deserves A rank.

->B-/C+ : This isn't a joke. The big dog serves many purposes and checks Zam, Kingambit, Darkrai, and Rillaboom. Has knock. Absorbs Toxic Spikes. Guard Dog prevents any whirlwind/roar or stat changes from a cycling lando or the rarer haze tox. He can spiral out of control quick with his drain punch bulk up combo and even beats out Great Tusk 1v1 more easily than you would think. He is a much better mon than given credit for and I think truly deserves a spot on the VR. B- is more accurate but I understand the reluctance to set anything from unranked into the B tiers

-> C+/B-. I am not sure if this is too controversial with all the success he has seen on the ladder lately if people have been paying attention. This mon deserves a slot on several stall teams and I feel it is more than a niche gimmick at this point. C+ is perfectly justified and I can even see him in B-.

Just gonna rattle off rises I agree with because I don't feel like I'm adding much outside of Clod/Okidogi to be honest


-> B

-> B+

-> A

-> A+

-> C+ (I was just about to say this so thank you to the above post for making a good argument before me)

-> S

-> Some kind of rise

-> Deserves ranked. Probably C? Maybe C+

-> C+. It deserves it as well.

A+/A

-> B+

Drops

-> B/B- honestly I think I would lean B. It just is not as solid a mon as could be and to see it ranked above Cinderace is strange to me. I don't really believe there's too much justification to use her. As much as I like this mon, Cinderace serves virtually the same role and is just better. The only reason she isn't even lower in my mind is because STAB Knock will never not be good. That's about it. Her main issue is that if you have the wrong set into the wrong matchup, chiefly her items, she is wildly exploitable.

-> B-. I just don't really see much point in using her in the current meta. I never really liked her to begin with so perhaps I am just being biased but it seems like she is weaker than ever now.

-> S-. I obviously believe Great Tusk is still an incredible mon and deserves to be placed higher than most any. But I feel he (and Glowking) probably don't deserve a true S rank right now. Especially because I feel like Kingambit, Dragapult, and Zamazenta are just clearly better overall mons. Great Tusk is undoubtedly a top 5 mon in the game, not borderline like I said about Darkrai but a bonified top 5.

-> B-. I think Latias and Latios have had ample time to test and find success. Only one of them really found any and that is Latios. At least to my knowledge. Latios is clearly the better of the two in my mind and I think Latias is more accurately a little lower than the other B mons. Not to say she is BAD, she just seems to be more accurately placed there.

B-. I also just think Greninja belongs just a biiiit lower to give a more accurate representation of the tier. I still think anything in the B ranks are solid mons that are useable, but I find it obvious that the other B mons are a little bit better. Perhaps I will be disagreed with on my last 2 drops but I figured I would offer my opinion.

Rattle off things I agree with that I don't have much to add

/ -> B+

-> B+

-> A-/B+

-> B/B-

-> B

-> A

-> C-/D, likely D

B/B+


If I could I would also love to recommend a little cleaning up of the lower tiers. I can offer more explanation if needed but I believe this would be a more accurate representation of C+ to D, most notably with UR drops

-> UR
-> UR
-> UR
-> D
-> D
-> C- (or D if we just simply don't want a C- rank but for sake of accuracy I will include it)
-> C- (see above)
-> C
-> C
-> C (no real justification for him in C+ in my opinion)
-> C+
-> C+

Lastly if there is a C-introduced ever: -> C-

Edit: Dang that was a lot more mon than I went into this hoping to adjust haha. Almost 50!

I hope the council does have the time to consider these all. I absolutely think Okidogi is my hardest selling point but test this guy out. He's had some success on the ladder and not just from me if you watch the RMTs!

 

[Zer0]

-> B-. I think Latias and Latios have had ample time to test and find success. Only one of them really found any and that is Latios. At least to my knowledge. Latios is clearly the better of the two in my mind and I think Latias is more accurately a little lower than the other B mons. Not to say she is BAD, she just seems to be more accurately placed there.

It's never been more over....

Jokes aside, in all honesty Latias is generally good in SV(I highly recommend for people to try her out on teams outside of veil and maybe screens as a whole, because veil as well as screens, are a niche archetype in SV OU and I think she can be explored more on stuff like grassy terrain teams or other archetypes like Sticky Web and classic HO), because she's arguably one of(if not) the most dangerous stored power sweeper in the entire metagame due to her great bulk and decent speed as well as access to agility. And she doesn't need to run agility to be a complete threat, Substitute or Recover are also great options in that slot which gives her a bit more depth in general as a sweeper.

Sure she can be quite hard to fit and yes she has certain problems, such as not being immediately threatening and being a bit tera reliant in certain MUs, but she always will have a place on HO and I think dropping her to B- is a bit too harsh.