Just like any team, they would like to use 10 Mons instead of 6, with 8 moveslots each.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Just like any team, they would like to use 10 Mons instead of 6, with 8 moveslots each.
Moreover, Zamazenta doesn't even check Darkrai because of the will o wisp set and the tera poison.
However, about Zamazenta, it can be bordeline but I don't think it is a big problem. You can use gholdengo, iron moth, moltres, zapdos, landorus-therian, dragapult, primarina, clefable, slowking galar, sinistcha, toxapex, toxic gliscor, iron valiant, enamorus, to check it depending on the set, and it is easy to put 2 of these mons (or more) in a team to be sure to check every set. I don't even do it on purpose.
When it tera fire, it becomes weak to earth power (from lando for exemple), to water type attack from primarina, you can toxic it, or t-wave + special attack, it still can be checked by ghold and moth.
Does anyone know why today is special?
Happy Birthday!
Anyways, stole a bunch of olt teams and noticing that alot of em are weak to tg manaphy. Maybe this mon can make a comeback?
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My problem with Zam is that I have to do a lot of mental exercises to figure out what set it runs, and when my check for that set isn't there, I'm completely screwed.
I tried using Lando-T, but by the endgame, Lando-T is usually not strong enough to 1v1 vs Zamn.
For Moltres, some Zamn I run into uses Stone Edge. Also tera fire completely screws the matchup.
I also run Glowking too, which folds to Crunch.
Zapdos... idk, feels like this gen it's a bit hard to fit in because there are so many strong special attackers that can deal a lot of damage to it.
Thank You :DGive Helmet Pecharunt a try. It's one of the hardest zama counters out there. Okidogi is another Pokémon that will give zamazenta a very difficult time (speaking as a Zama user). Toxapex is another Pokémon that is effective vs Zamazenta.
All these mons cam be trolled by Gking fsight but you can pair them with darks like Mr gambit or Samurott-H to pressure gking.
since raging bolt matches so well into a lot of annoying MUs for sun (particularly rain) it's naturally a great pick on sun teams. i've ran CM, choice specs, HDB and even life orb, all of which have proven to be very effective on sun structures. it's not the most splashable mon on sun but it cannot be understated just how huge having both an actual item slot and a protosynthesis boost is for raging bolt
precisely. sun can be very threatening but it has a really hard time covering all its bad MUs all at once, which is why it hasn't been seen very often. that and pokemon like walking wake really want to run knock off and flip turn alongside its STABs + flamethrower
Good. I wish Cockroach-T would be inadequate more often.
Tera Ground Scorching Sands is now what I exclusively run on Moltres. This gives you an answer for many of those issues.
To give some more advice so you are not just wasting Tera Ground or whatever every time you see Zama, most Zama sets are either Iron Defense and Body Press or 4 attacking with Close Combat. The ID BP sets are less likely to have all the coverage it needs since it can only fit 1 or 2 of Crunch, Heavy Slam, Ice Fang, Stone Edge, etc. The ID sets also tend to want to run Roar for phasing.
If you see CC or more than two non-Fighting coverage moves, you know it's the all out attacking set. In this case, it's a good bet to assume it will carry Stone Edge. These sets are also easier to RK using priority since they aren't constantly boosting defense with ID.
If you see ID or especially Roar, you know it only has room for one or two non-fighting attacks. You can then scout for what the coverage is as long as you have a way to deal with Body Press spam. You usually want to do something like fast Encore or phase it out the first time. Once you have information, it becomes easier to deal with.
In general, most teams that have any sort of bulky backbone run at least two physical walls or the like. You can use one and use a well timed switch into the other to scout what Zama wants to do, provided you have an answer to ID BP since you always risk the potential ID on the switch.
Offensively, Pult, D-speed, and usually Valiant have a great chance to RK Zama.
What does the standard Pecha spread look like right now? I like running max Speed w max HP and Night Shade over either Shadow Ball or Hex
Bulky ghold, gliscor, molt, full health gking, pult, encore gpon, deo can all threaten zama either by crippling with status, outlasting it defensively, locking it into ID or just hitting hard. Most mons that resist or are immune to fighting in the tier do solid into it, and while it has options like tera and sub, you can play around it because the first three moves of ID zama are decided, and ID and 4attacks Zama tend to run different moves and EV spreads (offensive runs max attack and speed, CC, stone edge, whereas ID tends to run more defensive spreads although not always true, and always has ID, BP and Crunch)
Those are the calcs with Sandsear Storm:Just put this into perspective I think it 2HKO everything offensive
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 203-239 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 378-446 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darkrai: 250-294 (88.9 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Isn't Sheer Force basically like the best Breaker ever that can run every move it wants? Like the calcs do not account for coverage.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sandsear Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 226-266 (58.2 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sandsear Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 421-497 (97 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sandsear Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darkrai: 274-325 (97.5 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
In my theory, Sandsear Storm is slightly stronger than Earth Power, but with less accuracy. If Landorus was Modest, Sandsear Storm would OHKO Darkrai and Great Tusk.
if lando-i were in the tier this would literally never be worth it. you ko darkrai after rocks and secure the kos you want anyway, esp if you're running np and/or or modest agility. having a serious chance to fumble the game for a bit of extra negligible chip isn't it
Watching some of the high ladder OLT matches and a lot of them really come down to gambit 50/50s lol. Its such a degenerate situation and pokemon yet seemingly no one has a problem with it creating very goofy end games just by existing. You need 2-3 checks for it minimum and it still can finesse its way to a win.
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i hate to say this, but i think at this point it's too late. i'll never stop fighting for a gambit suspect, don't get me wrong (at least as long as sv is current gen, because everyone is going to drop this shit like a hot potato the second gen 10 comes out), but i don't think there's any way nowadays to properly open the eyes of the community at large to how deeply, profoundly unhealthy the mon is. a good chunk of people know that it's a bad presence but are willing to tolerate it because they consider the alternative worse for some reason—some think other mons will be broken without gambit and still don't realize that's not something we should be factoring in while tiering, some aren't confident in their ability to successfully navigate a real endgame, some are just plain carried, and so on. others somehow genuinely think it's an ok and acceptable thing to have around, which is terrifying. unfortunately, this gigantic middle finger to the concept of skilled gameplay has entrenched itself too far in the meta to easily remove, so our only real recourse is to just play tiers where it isn't
Despite some silly endgames with Kingambit (especially combined with Terastal), this first OLT cycle was enjoyable even for someone who isn't a current-gen fan like me.
New techniques like Specs Iron Crown, CB Dual WB Tera Fly Scizor. Moltres and Hydrapple were very present.
Sun shines again, now more dynamic with Ninetales Encore + HW.
The new Sub Prot Kyurem can be annoying and Raging Bolt seemed a bit above the curve, as well as RngRai.
The adoption of the deadline for the weekend seemed to be pleasant for me too. A well-contested race and congratulations to the qualifiers.
New techniques like Specs Iron Crown, CB Dual WB Tera Fly Scizor. Moltres and Hydrapple were very present.
Sun shines again, now more dynamic with Ninetales Encore + HW.
The new Sub Prot Kyurem can be annoying and Raging Bolt seemed a bit above the curve, as well as RngRai.
The adoption of the deadline for the weekend seemed to be pleasant for me too. A well-contested race and congratulations to the qualifiers.
Personally I don't get it. I wasn't exaggerating when I said you need several checks or you just lose. Darkrai is the new en vogue pokemon that is supposed to be broken meanwhile there are far more immediate answers to that (unless you are running some super tailored rogue set) than there ever was for Gambit. and you don't even need to run anything crazy, regular old kowtow/Iron head/sucker/sword with your tera of choice is enough to completely flip matchups and in endgame its not rare for it to run through whole teams off of weighted guesses. I've been saying since the inception of the gen that gambit is by far the most broken thing in the tier and yet it has dodged bans every time. OLT is just really showcasing atm as I've watched plenty of matches that were super well played and then some guesses sucker instead of kowtow and its over.
I definitely just think its never going to be touched though. I don't even think it holds much in check for it to be absolved from a suspect. Darkrai and gholdengo already have decent answers. Its a very unhealthy and centralizing mon which is what I thought smogon tries to avoid. Whatever fotm baddie that comes up I always find myself going "but...gambit??? is stronger???" lol.
Gambit is weird because like GSC Snorlax while not healthy really, removing Gambit probably causes problems since Gambit checks so much in this tier, even moreso than Volcarona when it was here. And gambit is debatably not broken so that's probably why it's still here to be honest.
Yeah I think I find bolt more annoying than Gambit personally. Think Darkrai flinching is cheap but I don't find it broken simply because the "broken" set of nasty plot three attacks kind of feels decently easy to punish before it sets up. Personally status+ three attacks darkrai and trick Darkrai feel more consistent and are better in practice.
I think Kyurem might be very noticably too good for the sheer wallbreaking power it holds and for how stupid switching in is and how it's actually decently bulky. Plus earth power and freeze dry can slot machine too, with either defense drops or freezes that are devastating if they land the status of stat drop. Personally think Kyurem should get the suspect now with the anti Kyurem sentiment starting to pick up again
Yeah I think I find bolt more annoying than Gambit personally. Think Darkrai flinching is cheap but I don't find it broken simply because the "broken" set of nasty plot three attacks kind of feels decently easy to punish before it sets up. Personally status+ three attacks darkrai and trick Darkrai feel more consistent and are better in practice.
I think Kyurem might be very noticably too good for the sheer wallbreaking power it holds and for how stupid switching in is and how it's actually decently bulky. Plus earth power and freeze dry can slot machine too, with either defense drops or freezes that are devastating if they land the status of stat drop. Personally think Kyurem should get the suspect now with the anti Kyurem sentiment starting to pick up again
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Gambit feels healthier sometimes because it's the most misplayed pokemon in the tier. It is so often the first or second mon to die because everyone sees the sheer number of resists it has and switches it in. Seriously, start counting the games where defiant would have been better than supreme overlord and you'll notice the trend.
If you just switch your brain off and save it until the end at 100% HP you get reminded just how broken it is. Don't use its defensive profile as much, let other mons die instead. Gambit is so broken that 20% more HP on it is more valuable than 1-2 full hp mons.
If you just switch your brain off and save it until the end at 100% HP you get reminded just how broken it is. Don't use its defensive profile as much, let other mons die instead. Gambit is so broken that 20% more HP on it is more valuable than 1-2 full hp mons.
The issue is that you kind of have to use its defensive profile sometimes, so that's probably what keeps it in line in a weird sort of way. Gambit checks so much that not at least considering using it for its pretty good bulk and excellent typing is difficult, because it also is potent on the offensive side to. Kingambit is one of the greatest tools that balance and bulky offense have for that reason.
If you bring Kingambit and your gameplan is to preserve it at full health until the end game, how are you building a team to handle the assorted threats the opponent can bring, and what is your response if they preserve their Great Tusk? Run Tera Flying Tera Blast to OHKO at +0 Five Fallen, and hope they haven't also preserved their tera and they aren't some type that's neutral or resistant to your surprise Tera Blast?
Then, using that same Kingambit set, what is your response if the opponent is playing a super fat team, and they have a healthy Dondozo in the back? Lose on the spot because you can't break the fat lug?
If you can preserve a full-health Kingambit AND it's a set that can beat whatever the opponent has left, that is literally the definition of an outplay and you should win. The player bringing Kingambit knows its set, knows what the opponent has that can handle it, and knows whether 'Keep Kingambit healthy to clean' is a winning plan. If it is and he pulls it off, that's not luck - that's the Kingambit player's skill.
Then, using that same Kingambit set, what is your response if the opponent is playing a super fat team, and they have a healthy Dondozo in the back? Lose on the spot because you can't break the fat lug?
If you can preserve a full-health Kingambit AND it's a set that can beat whatever the opponent has left, that is literally the definition of an outplay and you should win. The player bringing Kingambit knows its set, knows what the opponent has that can handle it, and knows whether 'Keep Kingambit healthy to clean' is a winning plan. If it is and he pulls it off, that's not luck - that's the Kingambit player's skill.
kingambit doesn't even need to be full health though, and they run leftovers as well.
It puts a huge strain on team building, it can easily get through one of its checks just by its bulk. If they run super fat just run sub kyurem or something its not a huge contraindication.
in any case thats not even why I dislike it even though it is overtuned. The end game that is can set up can be very silly if you didn't preserve an encore mon. I've seen it happen enough during this OLT with 1900-2000 folks that this isn't exactly a rare situation.
It puts a huge strain on team building, it can easily get through one of its checks just by its bulk. If they run super fat just run sub kyurem or something its not a huge contraindication.
in any case thats not even why I dislike it even though it is overtuned. The end game that is can set up can be very silly if you didn't preserve an encore mon. I've seen it happen enough during this OLT with 1900-2000 folks that this isn't exactly a rare situation.
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It's been a while since I made an unnecessarily long post no one wants to read, so it's time for me to write about another amazing mon you should use who has risen up as of recent:
Sinistcha
Sinistcha @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots / Colbur Berry / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Poison / Fairy / Water / Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe OR 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind / Stun Spore / Foul Play
- Matcha Gotcha
- Shadow Ball / Hex
- Strength Sap
First spread's speed is ran to outspeed Adamant Kingambit and Ursaluna. Second spread spat guarantees Matcha Gotcha and Shadow Ball break IronPress Zamazenta's Substitute. Max physdef can also be ran if those matchups aren't too important. I didn't wanna combine the 2 spreads since you lose out on a lot of physical bulk if you do (only 84 physdef is NOT good).
76 SpA Sinistcha Matcha Gotcha vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 97-115 (25 - 29.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
In my previous post, I was gushing over defensive Hydrapple because it's a bulky grass in a meta without our lord and savior Ferrothorn. Well today, I am here to spread the gospel about another much needed bulky grass, Sinistcha. Sini is amazing, functioning as a Waterpon and Zamazenta check in one, both some of the most potent physical attackers in the meta. I know Leftovers is the most common item on Sini, but I would also like to mention Boots, Helmet, and Colbur Berry as alternatives you should try out. Boots avoids Spikes chip that may put Sini in range of dying and Colbur lets it safely take Dark moves like Samurott's Ceaseless Edge and Rillaboom's Knock Off. Rocky Helmet punishes U-turn from mons like Rillaboom, Landorus, and Cinderace, all mons Sini wants to check but can get pivoted on in the process. Sini is defined by its insane movepool, having access to moves like Strength Sap, Stun Spore, and Matcha Gotcha. Strength Sap is an obviously broken move that can pretty much prevent physical attackers from setting up and breaking through it, but Matcha Gotcha and Stun Spore are what really push it over the edge for me. Matcha having a burn chance makes it a lot harder to switch into than your typical Giga Drain, and Stun Spore can neuter fast offensive threats who may want to switch into it like Darkrai, Roaring Moon, and Iron Moth. Hex is preferred over Shadow Ball on the status spreading set to take advantage of Sini's increased potential to spread status conditions. Sini also has the blessed ability to run multiple viable Tera types. Poison and Steel both make it immune to Toxic, with Poison absorbing Tspikes and Steel giving it an Ice resistance to matchup better into Weavile and Meowscarada. Fairy's good at turning the tables against Darks like Moon and Sam, and Water's just a solid defensive typing in general that lets it beat Fire types like Gouging Fire and Cinderace. Unlike other bulky grasses, Sini doesn't get walled by Glowking since the combination of CM+Sball is able to break past it and allow it to take Sludge Bomb somewhat well aside from a potential poison. I already mentioned this before, but compressing a Waterpon check+a Zama check in one slot is suuuuuuuper helpful in the builder especially since we're short on Waterpon checks to begin with, and unlike Dragapult Sini has the bulk and reliable recovery to take repeated Crunches. Foul Play's another option to punish Swords Dance users who can boost past Strength Sap, mainly Waterpon, and 2hko it after it boosts. This is more fringe, but extremely useful nonetheless. Sini's ability to set up with CM is what makes it not passive, since it can punish passive teams who aren't able to brute force past it and use them as fodder, and is a big reason why I am a fan of Sini rising to A- in the last VR update. I've found that Sini fits best on hazard stacking teams who greatly appreciate it blocking Rapid Spin from Great Tusk, since other Ghosts like Dragapult (risks taking a Knock or Headlong Rush) and Gholdengo (if Air Balloon it doesn't fear Headlong Rush, but it is still susceptible to Knock) aren't surefire ways to prevent hazards from being removed. Sini has solid matchups across the board and I'm super happy people have finally recognized its strength as of late.
Mons it checks
Sini beats every variant of Tusk imaginable. Defensive has no power to break through it, offensive utility is unable to spin in front of it, and BU gets Strength Sapped repeatedly and punished by Matcha. Sini is the one ghost Tusk never wants to face since even super effective Ice Spinner isn't enough to 2hko it. Sini also has ridiculous longevity thanks to Strength Sap being overpowered as hell and getting it back to full immediately, so even if Sini is chipped and Tusk lands a Knock or Spinner, Sini just Saps right after and undoes all of Tusk's progress.
Sini can CM in its face and gain health lost from Salt Cure chip with Matcha recovery. Matcha hits Garg super effectively even after it Tera Waters, so Sini isn't gonna be as caught off guard as other mons like Primarina or Sam. Sap also neutralizes Curse setup, which can come in handy in some situations.
Zama is awful into Sini, with Crunch at max doing 40% unboosted and Body Press doing nothing. Zama could fish for physdef drops with repeated Crunches, but Sini could also undo the damage boost with Sap. Sub Zama can avoid this, but Matcha is able to break through Sub with 1 hit if running the 76 spat spread. Also, even if physdef is lowered, Sini can just switch out and Zama's progress will become useless.
Alomomola can't do anything, it becomes setup fodder for Sini. Only thing it can do is Wishpass into a mon that can beat it.
Can hit it with Spinner and Knock much like Tusk but hits much weaker, so it's even more hardwalled by Sini than Tusk is, especially since it gets no setup moves.
and 
By virtue of being a ghost, it completely walls their IronPress sets. Corviknight at least has the option to generate momentum by using U-turn on a predicted switch in, but Skarmory is unable to do anything and has to just let Sini switch in and then awkwardly respond the turn after. Not a good matchup for either.
Dondozo straight up does nothing to Sini, garbage matchup all around. Unlike Mola, it can't pivot out with Flip Turn, so it costs momentum.
Dragonite can't setup thanks to Sap and Sini is immune to Extreme Speed and resists Earthquake. Dnite can opt for Ice Spinner, but it's unable to 2hko.
Mons it checks semi-reliably
This is the main one since there are so little reliable defensive checks to it. Waterpon is able to boost past Sap with SD, but if Sini is running Foul Play it immediately loses. If it's not running Foul Play, Sini can still click Matcha and hit it for 40% and fish for a burn, which would prevent Waterpon from breaking Sini entirely. However, Sini can lose to Knock Waterpon, which will knock it out at +2 unless running Colbur. Waterpon and Sini need to be running the right sets to be able to beat each other.
Same thing as Waterpon, except it resists Matcha and actually prevents Sap thanks to Defiant. Despite that, pivot sets generally don't do much outside of Knock, and would prefer to have a different teammate take on Sini.
This is a weird one. Taunt shuts down Sap and CM, so if Sini gets too low it can't recover reliably, but Lando also doesn't do much aside from that. U-turn does chip it down but it can get punished if Sini's running Helmet and Sini can also threaten good damage and a burn with Matcha. U-turn can actually be detrimental if you have no good switch ins for either STAB. Much like Ogerpon, it can take on Sini super situationally, but would prefer its teammates to take on Sini instead.
Thanks to Heatproof, Sini is now neutral to Fire, meaning it can actually take on the hardest hitting Fire type setup sweeper. Sap neutralizes DD setup and Gouging Fire gets chipped by Sball and its own recoil from Flare Blitz. This check is still situational since Adamant Booster Gfire is able to reliably 2hko Sini, and Band under Sun obviously demolishes it unless it's Tera Water, but it's still a really neat matchup.
Cinderace is not able to setup on Sini like Gfire, but it can repeatedly pivot out and annoy the hell out of Sini. Helmet can punish Ace for clicking the free pivot move, but Sini should not be the go-to switch in for this funny bunny. That being said, Tera Water Sini is absolutely able to handle Ace thanks to its quad resistance to Pyro Ball, which would otherwise do around half.
Immune to Facade, resists Headlong Rush, and neutral to Fire Punch thanks to its GOATed ability in Heatproof, which does wonders for its matchups into Fire types. The unstoppable Ursaluna can actually be stopped by the kettle due to its combination of typing and ability. Sini can also outspeed Adamant with the standard spread, getting a Matcha off and chunking it for big damage, which is usually enough since it's easy to revenge+it chips itself constantly due to Flame Orb. Luna sets that opt for Crunch are still able to beat it however unless it's Colbur, but those sets are few and far between, but still worth a mention.
Gliscor can click Toxic and chip down Sini heavily over time, but Sini can Tera Poison or Steel to avoid this issue and still not be threatened too much by EQ, tho this does require burning Tera. SD sets are the true menace, since Sini won't be able to deal enough damage to Gliscor since they run spdef, and Scor can threaten with super effective Knock and outdoes Sap lowering.
Colbur Sini can reliably take on SD variants of Iron Valiant, stomaching a Knock and then firing back with Matcha. Tera Poison can also wall SD Val in case you're not running Colbur, but I wouldn't recommend using Sini against special variants, since even if you boost with CM alongside it, it can just Encore you and Moonblast is doing at least half.
Ting-Lu's semi-reliable since it has a bad Matcha matchup, but Ruination getting it down to half is super valuable for teams that rely on Waterpon to break. Lu's best clicking Ruination on the switch in and then immediately switching out since further engaging with Sini will cause it to die when it should be staying alive to check Sini's teammates in the back.
Molt's Flamethrower is doing at least half, but you can set up with CM and threaten it back with Sball or just Tera Water. However, Molt can run Hurricane and wipe you off the face of the earth or phaze you with Roar so your setup become futile.
and 
after Tera Steel
With Tera Steel, Sini completely walls these 2. I put these 2 in the semi-reliable category since Sini doesn't wanna Tera that often since its base typing is actually really solid for this metagame.
Band Rillaboom can just nuke with Knock, but if running Colbur, the matchup becomes a whole lot better, since now it won't 2hko. Sini should be the backup Rilla check on your team, to support mons like Molt and Corv who should be the primary switch ins.
Okidogi's BU setup attempts are null and void against Sap, and Knock isn't threatening enough against Sini. However, Poison Touch Dogi can whittle down Sini effortlessly just by clicking a move that isn't Fighting type thanks to the poison chance, so Sini is only semi-reliable in this regard.
Mons Sinistcha cannot break
Unaware makes setup attempts futile, and can just click Toxic on it. Sini can fish for burns with Matcha, but it's not worth it.
This is stall exclusive, so not too important, but it walls Sini nonetheless.
Raging Bolt can setup alongside Sini and fire back with extremely hard hitting Dragon STABs. Sini can Tera Fairy to ease that matchup, but it comes at the cost of no longer resisting Electric STAB, so it's best to just keep Sini away from it.
Moon resists both STABs and has multiple ways of dealing with Sini (boosted Knock and Tera Flying Acro). One redeeming factor is Colbur Sini can force Moon to Tera if played right, allowing for teammates such as Bolt and Weavile to more easily revenge it later with the added bonus of the opp no longer having access to Tera, but Moon is still such a rough matchup for the Matcha man.
I utterly despise this mon and think it's legitimately bad in the metagame but it does wall Sini pretty hard and sets up Stealth Rock in front of it, can't deny that.
Resists both STABs, but does hate Matcha burns. Gambit can click SD and tear Sini a new one, regardless of Sap. Sini can only beat Gambit in the most specific of circumstances.
Sludge Wave 2hkos, can boost with Fiery Dance, and its got really good special bulk, which means it can soak up repeated Sballs. Its also got really low attack, so Sap will only recover around 60% the first time around.
Replays showcasing Sinistcha in action
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2169892064-xd2j0pwifajm4g1pjf4n1xzh792q7rbpw
In this replay, Sinistcha was able to finish off the second half of the team (Tusk, Waterpon, and Zama) once all the other checks were taken care of. Waterpon failed to secure the KO on Sini with Play Rough because Sini is just that bulky. Even Zama repeatedly chipping Sini down with Crunch and Tera Steeling wasn't enough.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2167923277-acv5dj5n1auxmnzdbki0rermw3591bcpw
I had to activate big brain mode for this game. The reason why I had Sini stay in on Moon was because Corv was at half, too weak to take back to back boosted Knocks, so I flipped the script and kept Sapping as it clicked DD. Colbur allowed Sini to live Knock to keep the cycle going. The goal wasn't to have Sini beat Moon, as that was impossible, DD has more PP than Sap. The goal was to force a Tera Flying on Moon so that Weav could revenge sweep lategame without worrying about a surprise Tera Fairy from Gambit or a Tera Steel from Lando. Sini excelled at doing what it was supposed to do, even holding its own against Moon of all things. Amazing game for an amazing mon.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2168597924
Sinistcha's goal here is to block Spin from Tusk, since Clod and Garg are given many opportunities to click Spikes and Rocks. Sini is shown to block Tusk from removing hazards, punishing it, Tink, and Garg severely in the long run and Garg gets taken down a notch due to Sap and Matcha outrecovering Salt Cure chip. The opp intelligently sacks Garg to prevent Sini from recovering with Sap, but by that point it had already done its job and can go down to Flame from Molt valiantly. Gholdengo is then tasked with blocking Spin from defensive Tusk (it blocks CC instead) and then nukes with Sball, which ensured they had lost. While the previous replay showed Sini being able to 1v1 even in a disadvantageous matchup, this replay shows Sini being a team player with its great Garg mu and preventing hazards from being removed. Side note: This replay is also a good example of why Tinkaton is extremely good, putting Weav out of commission early and chipping Corv down decently, might make a post about it in the future too.
Overall, I am extremely glad this mon is getting so much love right now. I always felt like this mon had potential due to its favorable Waterpon matchup, but it seems I have underestimated just how much utility you can get out of this mon. Those replays only showed the common CM set and none of the Stun Spore set, but the status spreading set is also extremely good, you should try it. My personal favorite item on it is Colbur since it lets it live hard hitting Knocks from mons like Rilla, Moon, and Waterpon, possibly turning those matchups into winning situations. The rise to A- was more than justified and deserved, and I can't wait for more showings of it in the future.
Sinistcha
Sinistcha @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots / Colbur Berry / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Poison / Fairy / Water / Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe OR 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind / Stun Spore / Foul Play
- Matcha Gotcha
- Shadow Ball / Hex
- Strength Sap
First spread's speed is ran to outspeed Adamant Kingambit and Ursaluna. Second spread spat guarantees Matcha Gotcha and Shadow Ball break IronPress Zamazenta's Substitute. Max physdef can also be ran if those matchups aren't too important. I didn't wanna combine the 2 spreads since you lose out on a lot of physical bulk if you do (only 84 physdef is NOT good).
76 SpA Sinistcha Matcha Gotcha vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 97-115 (25 - 29.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
In my previous post, I was gushing over defensive Hydrapple because it's a bulky grass in a meta without our lord and savior Ferrothorn. Well today, I am here to spread the gospel about another much needed bulky grass, Sinistcha. Sini is amazing, functioning as a Waterpon and Zamazenta check in one, both some of the most potent physical attackers in the meta. I know Leftovers is the most common item on Sini, but I would also like to mention Boots, Helmet, and Colbur Berry as alternatives you should try out. Boots avoids Spikes chip that may put Sini in range of dying and Colbur lets it safely take Dark moves like Samurott's Ceaseless Edge and Rillaboom's Knock Off. Rocky Helmet punishes U-turn from mons like Rillaboom, Landorus, and Cinderace, all mons Sini wants to check but can get pivoted on in the process. Sini is defined by its insane movepool, having access to moves like Strength Sap, Stun Spore, and Matcha Gotcha. Strength Sap is an obviously broken move that can pretty much prevent physical attackers from setting up and breaking through it, but Matcha Gotcha and Stun Spore are what really push it over the edge for me. Matcha having a burn chance makes it a lot harder to switch into than your typical Giga Drain, and Stun Spore can neuter fast offensive threats who may want to switch into it like Darkrai, Roaring Moon, and Iron Moth. Hex is preferred over Shadow Ball on the status spreading set to take advantage of Sini's increased potential to spread status conditions. Sini also has the blessed ability to run multiple viable Tera types. Poison and Steel both make it immune to Toxic, with Poison absorbing Tspikes and Steel giving it an Ice resistance to matchup better into Weavile and Meowscarada. Fairy's good at turning the tables against Darks like Moon and Sam, and Water's just a solid defensive typing in general that lets it beat Fire types like Gouging Fire and Cinderace. Unlike other bulky grasses, Sini doesn't get walled by Glowking since the combination of CM+Sball is able to break past it and allow it to take Sludge Bomb somewhat well aside from a potential poison. I already mentioned this before, but compressing a Waterpon check+a Zama check in one slot is suuuuuuuper helpful in the builder especially since we're short on Waterpon checks to begin with, and unlike Dragapult Sini has the bulk and reliable recovery to take repeated Crunches. Foul Play's another option to punish Swords Dance users who can boost past Strength Sap, mainly Waterpon, and 2hko it after it boosts. This is more fringe, but extremely useful nonetheless. Sini's ability to set up with CM is what makes it not passive, since it can punish passive teams who aren't able to brute force past it and use them as fodder, and is a big reason why I am a fan of Sini rising to A- in the last VR update. I've found that Sini fits best on hazard stacking teams who greatly appreciate it blocking Rapid Spin from Great Tusk, since other Ghosts like Dragapult (risks taking a Knock or Headlong Rush) and Gholdengo (if Air Balloon it doesn't fear Headlong Rush, but it is still susceptible to Knock) aren't surefire ways to prevent hazards from being removed. Sini has solid matchups across the board and I'm super happy people have finally recognized its strength as of late.
Mons it checks
Sini beats every variant of Tusk imaginable. Defensive has no power to break through it, offensive utility is unable to spin in front of it, and BU gets Strength Sapped repeatedly and punished by Matcha. Sini is the one ghost Tusk never wants to face since even super effective Ice Spinner isn't enough to 2hko it. Sini also has ridiculous longevity thanks to Strength Sap being overpowered as hell and getting it back to full immediately, so even if Sini is chipped and Tusk lands a Knock or Spinner, Sini just Saps right after and undoes all of Tusk's progress.
Sini can CM in its face and gain health lost from Salt Cure chip with Matcha recovery. Matcha hits Garg super effectively even after it Tera Waters, so Sini isn't gonna be as caught off guard as other mons like Primarina or Sam. Sap also neutralizes Curse setup, which can come in handy in some situations.
Zama is awful into Sini, with Crunch at max doing 40% unboosted and Body Press doing nothing. Zama could fish for physdef drops with repeated Crunches, but Sini could also undo the damage boost with Sap. Sub Zama can avoid this, but Matcha is able to break through Sub with 1 hit if running the 76 spat spread. Also, even if physdef is lowered, Sini can just switch out and Zama's progress will become useless.
Alomomola can't do anything, it becomes setup fodder for Sini. Only thing it can do is Wishpass into a mon that can beat it.
Can hit it with Spinner and Knock much like Tusk but hits much weaker, so it's even more hardwalled by Sini than Tusk is, especially since it gets no setup moves.
and By virtue of being a ghost, it completely walls their IronPress sets. Corviknight at least has the option to generate momentum by using U-turn on a predicted switch in, but Skarmory is unable to do anything and has to just let Sini switch in and then awkwardly respond the turn after. Not a good matchup for either.
Dondozo straight up does nothing to Sini, garbage matchup all around. Unlike Mola, it can't pivot out with Flip Turn, so it costs momentum.
Dragonite can't setup thanks to Sap and Sini is immune to Extreme Speed and resists Earthquake. Dnite can opt for Ice Spinner, but it's unable to 2hko.
Mons it checks semi-reliably
This is the main one since there are so little reliable defensive checks to it. Waterpon is able to boost past Sap with SD, but if Sini is running Foul Play it immediately loses. If it's not running Foul Play, Sini can still click Matcha and hit it for 40% and fish for a burn, which would prevent Waterpon from breaking Sini entirely. However, Sini can lose to Knock Waterpon, which will knock it out at +2 unless running Colbur. Waterpon and Sini need to be running the right sets to be able to beat each other.
Same thing as Waterpon, except it resists Matcha and actually prevents Sap thanks to Defiant. Despite that, pivot sets generally don't do much outside of Knock, and would prefer to have a different teammate take on Sini.
This is a weird one. Taunt shuts down Sap and CM, so if Sini gets too low it can't recover reliably, but Lando also doesn't do much aside from that. U-turn does chip it down but it can get punished if Sini's running Helmet and Sini can also threaten good damage and a burn with Matcha. U-turn can actually be detrimental if you have no good switch ins for either STAB. Much like Ogerpon, it can take on Sini super situationally, but would prefer its teammates to take on Sini instead.
Thanks to Heatproof, Sini is now neutral to Fire, meaning it can actually take on the hardest hitting Fire type setup sweeper. Sap neutralizes DD setup and Gouging Fire gets chipped by Sball and its own recoil from Flare Blitz. This check is still situational since Adamant Booster Gfire is able to reliably 2hko Sini, and Band under Sun obviously demolishes it unless it's Tera Water, but it's still a really neat matchup.
Cinderace is not able to setup on Sini like Gfire, but it can repeatedly pivot out and annoy the hell out of Sini. Helmet can punish Ace for clicking the free pivot move, but Sini should not be the go-to switch in for this funny bunny. That being said, Tera Water Sini is absolutely able to handle Ace thanks to its quad resistance to Pyro Ball, which would otherwise do around half.
Immune to Facade, resists Headlong Rush, and neutral to Fire Punch thanks to its GOATed ability in Heatproof, which does wonders for its matchups into Fire types. The unstoppable Ursaluna can actually be stopped by the kettle due to its combination of typing and ability. Sini can also outspeed Adamant with the standard spread, getting a Matcha off and chunking it for big damage, which is usually enough since it's easy to revenge+it chips itself constantly due to Flame Orb. Luna sets that opt for Crunch are still able to beat it however unless it's Colbur, but those sets are few and far between, but still worth a mention.
Gliscor can click Toxic and chip down Sini heavily over time, but Sini can Tera Poison or Steel to avoid this issue and still not be threatened too much by EQ, tho this does require burning Tera. SD sets are the true menace, since Sini won't be able to deal enough damage to Gliscor since they run spdef, and Scor can threaten with super effective Knock and outdoes Sap lowering.
Colbur Sini can reliably take on SD variants of Iron Valiant, stomaching a Knock and then firing back with Matcha. Tera Poison can also wall SD Val in case you're not running Colbur, but I wouldn't recommend using Sini against special variants, since even if you boost with CM alongside it, it can just Encore you and Moonblast is doing at least half.
Ting-Lu's semi-reliable since it has a bad Matcha matchup, but Ruination getting it down to half is super valuable for teams that rely on Waterpon to break. Lu's best clicking Ruination on the switch in and then immediately switching out since further engaging with Sini will cause it to die when it should be staying alive to check Sini's teammates in the back.
Molt's Flamethrower is doing at least half, but you can set up with CM and threaten it back with Sball or just Tera Water. However, Molt can run Hurricane and wipe you off the face of the earth or phaze you with Roar so your setup become futile.
and after Tera SteelWith Tera Steel, Sini completely walls these 2. I put these 2 in the semi-reliable category since Sini doesn't wanna Tera that often since its base typing is actually really solid for this metagame.
Band Rillaboom can just nuke with Knock, but if running Colbur, the matchup becomes a whole lot better, since now it won't 2hko. Sini should be the backup Rilla check on your team, to support mons like Molt and Corv who should be the primary switch ins.
Okidogi's BU setup attempts are null and void against Sap, and Knock isn't threatening enough against Sini. However, Poison Touch Dogi can whittle down Sini effortlessly just by clicking a move that isn't Fighting type thanks to the poison chance, so Sini is only semi-reliable in this regard.
Mons Sinistcha cannot break
Unaware makes setup attempts futile, and can just click Toxic on it. Sini can fish for burns with Matcha, but it's not worth it.
This is stall exclusive, so not too important, but it walls Sini nonetheless.
Raging Bolt can setup alongside Sini and fire back with extremely hard hitting Dragon STABs. Sini can Tera Fairy to ease that matchup, but it comes at the cost of no longer resisting Electric STAB, so it's best to just keep Sini away from it.
Moon resists both STABs and has multiple ways of dealing with Sini (boosted Knock and Tera Flying Acro). One redeeming factor is Colbur Sini can force Moon to Tera if played right, allowing for teammates such as Bolt and Weavile to more easily revenge it later with the added bonus of the opp no longer having access to Tera, but Moon is still such a rough matchup for the Matcha man.
I utterly despise this mon and think it's legitimately bad in the metagame but it does wall Sini pretty hard and sets up Stealth Rock in front of it, can't deny that.
Resists both STABs, but does hate Matcha burns. Gambit can click SD and tear Sini a new one, regardless of Sap. Sini can only beat Gambit in the most specific of circumstances.
Sludge Wave 2hkos, can boost with Fiery Dance, and its got really good special bulk, which means it can soak up repeated Sballs. Its also got really low attack, so Sap will only recover around 60% the first time around.
Replays showcasing Sinistcha in action
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2169892064-xd2j0pwifajm4g1pjf4n1xzh792q7rbpw
In this replay, Sinistcha was able to finish off the second half of the team (Tusk, Waterpon, and Zama) once all the other checks were taken care of. Waterpon failed to secure the KO on Sini with Play Rough because Sini is just that bulky. Even Zama repeatedly chipping Sini down with Crunch and Tera Steeling wasn't enough.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2167923277-acv5dj5n1auxmnzdbki0rermw3591bcpw
I had to activate big brain mode for this game. The reason why I had Sini stay in on Moon was because Corv was at half, too weak to take back to back boosted Knocks, so I flipped the script and kept Sapping as it clicked DD. Colbur allowed Sini to live Knock to keep the cycle going. The goal wasn't to have Sini beat Moon, as that was impossible, DD has more PP than Sap. The goal was to force a Tera Flying on Moon so that Weav could revenge sweep lategame without worrying about a surprise Tera Fairy from Gambit or a Tera Steel from Lando. Sini excelled at doing what it was supposed to do, even holding its own against Moon of all things. Amazing game for an amazing mon.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2168597924
Sinistcha's goal here is to block Spin from Tusk, since Clod and Garg are given many opportunities to click Spikes and Rocks. Sini is shown to block Tusk from removing hazards, punishing it, Tink, and Garg severely in the long run and Garg gets taken down a notch due to Sap and Matcha outrecovering Salt Cure chip. The opp intelligently sacks Garg to prevent Sini from recovering with Sap, but by that point it had already done its job and can go down to Flame from Molt valiantly. Gholdengo is then tasked with blocking Spin from defensive Tusk (it blocks CC instead) and then nukes with Sball, which ensured they had lost. While the previous replay showed Sini being able to 1v1 even in a disadvantageous matchup, this replay shows Sini being a team player with its great Garg mu and preventing hazards from being removed. Side note: This replay is also a good example of why Tinkaton is extremely good, putting Weav out of commission early and chipping Corv down decently, might make a post about it in the future too.
Overall, I am extremely glad this mon is getting so much love right now. I always felt like this mon had potential due to its favorable Waterpon matchup, but it seems I have underestimated just how much utility you can get out of this mon. Those replays only showed the common CM set and none of the Stun Spore set, but the status spreading set is also extremely good, you should try it. My personal favorite item on it is Colbur since it lets it live hard hitting Knocks from mons like Rilla, Moon, and Waterpon, possibly turning those matchups into winning situations. The rise to A- was more than justified and deserved, and I can't wait for more showings of it in the future.
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I love Sinischa and love your write-up. All the Zamazenta's lately have been tera dark + sub so thanks for running the numbers on that matchup.
I want to ask though about strength sap beating the dragon dancers? They have 32 pp to our 16 so how do we stop them. Getting crushed by Dragonite is one of the reasons I've been considering dropping Sinischa lately (mostly for Hatterene).
I want to ask though about strength sap beating the dragon dancers? They have 32 pp to our 16 so how do we stop them. Getting crushed by Dragonite is one of the reasons I've been considering dropping Sinischa lately (mostly for Hatterene).
I've found Dragonite kinda just loses to it most of the time; it takes a couple of Dragon Dances to get within range of OHKO'ing it with Ice Spinner, and Fire Punch does very little thanks to Strength Sap, and those DD turns can be uses by Sinistcha to boost with CM, punishing DNite's passivity. The situation is only compounded if it happens to tera(probably before, no idea why it would do so in front of Sinistcha), cause then it loses its resistance to Matcha, which Sinistcha can just use to 1v1 it most of the time.