On the Topic of Indeedee’s Quick Ban: A Case for a Suspect Test
I personally disagree with the outright ban of Indeedee, and I believe a suspect test would have been the more appropriate course of action. While Indeedee is certainly strong and can exert a lot of pressure, it never felt like an all-encompassing, unmanageable threat that warranted an immediate removal from the tier. Both the Specs and Scarf sets had clear and exploitable weaknesses that could be handled with proper planning and play.
Weaknesses of Specs and Scarf Sets:
The Specs set, while undeniably powerful with Expanding Force under Psychic Terrain, had a glaring vulnerability to being revenge-killed by any faster physical attacker. The Scarf set, meanwhile, traded raw power for speed, but often lacked the necessary damage output to break through bulky special defenders like Gastrodon or any solid steel-type resist or a dark type.
The discussion around Indeedee often centers on whether players should have to specifically prepare for it in team-building. I acknowledge that prepping for Indeedee can put a strain on certain team archetypes, but I believe that’s part of what makes competitive Pokémon interesting. Building to counter various threats, learning how to navigate difficult matchups, and not always having an answer for everything is what helps the metagame evolve. In this case, Indeedee had counters and could be managed with the right preparation.
Scouting Indeedee’s Set:
A common concern raised about Indeedee was that players could lose a Pokémon while trying to figure out whether it was running a Specs or Scarf set. However, scouting its item was possible without necessarily losing a mon, particularly through smart switches and predictions. In most games, Indeedee often revealed its item within the first few turns. For example:
Example:
- Turn 1: Indeedee comes out.
- You send out Ambipom (or any physical attacker faster than Indeedee).
If Indeedee uses Expanding Force and you safely switch to a bulky resist, it’s a Scarf set, because the player can’t afford to lose Indeedee so early without nothing in return. If Indeedee switches out fearing Knock Off or another threat, it’s a Specs set. This method, while requiring careful play, allowed you to scout Indeedee without losing momentum.
The Case for a Suspect Test:
After discussing this with several players, I began to realize that the real issue with Indeedee wasn’t its raw power alone, but the amount of pressure it put on team-building. The presence of Indeedee demanded specific counters or checks, often dictating how teams were structured around it. This concern is valid, but I believe the decision to quick ban it preemptively did not allow the metagame to properly adapt.
A suspect test would have been a better solution. It would give the community the opportunity to experiment with reasonable counterplay and see if Indeedee truly warps the meta to an unmanageable extent. If players found that Indeedee consistently forced teams to over-centralize or that scouting its set reliably became too difficult, then a ban would be justified. However, outright banning Indeedee without the chance for testing seems premature.
Turn 1 Prediction and Play:
The argument that Indeedee forces unfair predictions on Turn 1 also needs context. Indeedee could be played around through smart switching and prediction, and it often telegraphed its set early. Forcing players to think carefully about their early-game moves, while challenging, is not an unfair advantage, but a skill-testing part of the game. Players could manage Indeedee without completely losing momentum or a Pokémon if they navigated the matchup well.
Conclusion:
In conclusion, Indeedee was strong but manageable, and while it exerted pressure in team-building, it wasn’t without its flaws. The decision to quick ban it felt hasty, and I firmly believe a suspect test would have provided a more thorough and measured approach. This would have allowed players to try out reasonable strategies to counter Indeedee and see if the strain it placed on team-building and in-game strategy was truly too much for the tier. If, after testing, Indeedee was still deemed oppressive, then a ban would be justified.
However, outright banning without giving players a chance to adapt doesn’t seem to do the meta justice.
rose to NU
dropped to PUBL (and has already been unbanned)
Both of these are nigh uncounterable and completely ridiculous at breaking the meta down. Gligar and Slowbro-Galar were some of the best mons at punishing randomly throwing out Fighting-type attacks, now there's very little that really makes incorrectly going for Close Combat that big of a deal. Weezing is cool but he just doesn't cut it. I think Tauros is mildly more balanced, Flamigo is just capable of 2hkoing the entire metagame with very little relevant prediction and the only things holding it back are cheese offense and dying to recoil+helmet+sometimes aftermath.
It sucks how we have way less to check this. It's still held back by its speed tier, but almost nothing else. Everything that will check it defensively by tanking a hit (Rhydon, Meloetta, Decidueye, etc.) does so basically once and potentially gets dunked on by Tera, and the stuff with recovery aren't that good vs. it either. I can see a world where we can keep up with the offensive pressure on it, but right now it's a real pain in a world where we also have to deal with the aforementioned 3 mons.
