Finchinator already revealed that other suspect tests had cheating but that the overall outcome of those tests were not affected due to the margin not being close enough.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
we are so kyuback, ladies and gentlemen
There's a lot of 1 liners being posted and it's a very chaotic time. I will lock this thread for 24 hours to let people collect their cool a little bit and then we can go from there. As for what happened, Kyurem has been unbanned after a series of cheaters were discovered, causing the vote result to change. More information can be found in the link below.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kyurem-is-now-unbanned-from-sv-ou.3752973/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/kyurem-is-now-unbanned-from-sv-ou.3752973/
Hey all; I completely understand your frustrations regarding the suspect result being overturned. I'm also greatly frustrated by it, not because I was in the pro-ban camp but because our process's integrity was undermined and disrupted in a serious way. The way I see it is that if you cheat, you will always leave some kind of a paper trail, and fortunately we were able to catch onto it and take action.
We are currently figuring out the next steps to take with improving our process and regarding tiering action, but for the weekend at least we're reeling back and taking a breather as Kyurem re-enters the format. Although this situation is greatly upsetting, I have faith we will be able to bounce back and take steps forward as a community. Let's try to keep a positive outlook; there's still a lot we can assess in this format, and I am extremely confident that we can still take some serious steps in the right direction.
That being said, I want to ask that we keep shitposting and doomposting as a whole to a minimum! I seriously do understand the sentiment, but it's not going to do any good for anybody and is only going to facilitate more and more spiraling. It's one thing to be upset but it's another to spread and echo negativity.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to DM me or anybody else on our staff. We're right there with you.
We are currently figuring out the next steps to take with improving our process and regarding tiering action, but for the weekend at least we're reeling back and taking a breather as Kyurem re-enters the format. Although this situation is greatly upsetting, I have faith we will be able to bounce back and take steps forward as a community. Let's try to keep a positive outlook; there's still a lot we can assess in this format, and I am extremely confident that we can still take some serious steps in the right direction.
That being said, I want to ask that we keep shitposting and doomposting as a whole to a minimum! I seriously do understand the sentiment, but it's not going to do any good for anybody and is only going to facilitate more and more spiraling. It's one thing to be upset but it's another to spread and echo negativity.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to DM me or anybody else on our staff. We're right there with you.
We were going to suspect Gliscor on Monday. We may still suspect Gliscor in the near future. I am not sure yet. Kyurem is not being immediately re-suspected. Other discussions are on the table, too. I do not have all of the answers. Stay tuned.
Hydrapple for OU dreams ruined :( now he is but a good mon instead of an insane one
Is tera blast next on the table? For all of kyurem suspect that was all being talked about "we shouldve suspected tera blast instead" or "if this doesnt get banned then tera blast has to go" so im curious if the same sentiment is still shared among people
Either way at least people wont be complaining about zap king lu as much anymore with kyurem here (for now)
Either way at least people wont be complaining about zap king lu as much anymore with kyurem here (for now)
This is your chance. Let's make up for tera blast not being banned like it should've been early in SV and shift to the free Regieleki + Volc retest timeline. No more should all mons not named Eelektross live in fear of getting randomly nuked by a super-effective 80bp STAB move out of nowhere from a mon that doesn't otherwise have a single move of that type in its whole movepool.
It has been 2 years since SV release, waiting for another Kyurem suspect. Can we just ban fucking tera with all Shitpons and stop doing this shit?
And what is ZapKingLu? Why have i never met this at 1800s+? Tera Fairy Kingambit, Metal Sound+Substitute Zapdos (WHAT), Curse Trevenant, but not a single one ZapKingLu team, stop joking about this shit
And what is ZapKingLu? Why have i never met this at 1800s+? Tera Fairy Kingambit, Metal Sound+Substitute Zapdos (WHAT), Curse Trevenant, but not a single one ZapKingLu team, stop joking about this shit
Guys can we just not request suspects for now? I'm sure the council is probably dealing with a lot of hate rn so maybe it'd be best to just make their lives easier and let them cook.
I just don't believe the support is there for a Tera Blast suspect test as it's only a small group of players who actually want that, and if we did get a suspect test for that, the verdict would probably be somewhere in the range of 70-85% Do Not Ban, making it a big waste of time.
A number of good players in the previous Kyurem suspect test thread, such as Srn, Lax, blunder, and xavgb, singled out Kingambit as either the most broken or second most problematic mon in the meta, and it might be the best suspect target going forward in a couple of months.
Kingambit sets up game-winning scenarios a lot more than Kyurem does in the high ladder and in tours, and it's likely best target to axe since it's not like it's holding the meta together like Zama is, and it doesn't hold back all that many Pokemon back except Gholdengo, Meowscarada, Weavile, and Slowking-Galar while also being a soft check/revenge killer of mons such as Dragapult, Kyurem, Roaring Moon, Rillaboom, and Deoxys-Speed.
A number of good players in the previous Kyurem suspect test thread, such as Srn, Lax, blunder, and xavgb, singled out Kingambit as either the most broken or second most problematic mon in the meta, and it might be the best suspect target going forward in a couple of months.
Kingambit sets up game-winning scenarios a lot more than Kyurem does in the high ladder and in tours, and it's likely best target to axe since it's not like it's holding the meta together like Zama is, and it doesn't hold back all that many Pokemon back except Gholdengo, Meowscarada, Weavile, and Slowking-Galar while also being a soft check/revenge killer of mons such as Dragapult, Kyurem, Roaring Moon, Rillaboom, and Deoxys-Speed.
I'll be brief, Kyurem Do Not Ban vote has given us 1 option in terms of possible short term action.
- Tera: too contentious definitely can't ban it
- Kyurem: lol
- Gliscor: too contentious, esp with Kyurem staying (even tho SD glisc is def broken imo but that's for another day)
- Kingambit: not enough support, people believe it's necessary in the tier (I disagree but that doesn't matter, what matters is what people think)
- Tera Blast: not enough support
- do nothing
If we are looking for tiering action in the near future, it'd have to be Tera Blast ban, and while I don't think it moves the needle enough it's better than nothing, which is the only alternative given based on the Kyurem vote. I am not gonna lie, I've kinda lost most morale for this tier atp personally but I think it's still possible to make productive change via action on Tera Blast. The issue is however, the lack of support or 'complaints' about Tera Blast bar a select few. I'm gonna be blunt here, and this is not fear mongering, regardless of how much you care about Tera Blast (personally I dont care much either but I am trying to be self aware) we NEED to be vocal on Tera Blast Ban if we want this tier to have the CHANCE of a long lasting future. There is no 'can' or 'should', need is imperative. The only other alternative is doing nothing and leaving SV in this state, which is honestly a large part of why I was worried about this Kyurem outcome in the first place. The entire tier is hinging on this, please keep my words in mind.
- Tera: too contentious definitely can't ban it
- Kyurem: lol
- Gliscor: too contentious, esp with Kyurem staying (even tho SD glisc is def broken imo but that's for another day)
- Kingambit: not enough support, people believe it's necessary in the tier (I disagree but that doesn't matter, what matters is what people think)
- Tera Blast: not enough support
- do nothing
If we are looking for tiering action in the near future, it'd have to be Tera Blast ban, and while I don't think it moves the needle enough it's better than nothing, which is the only alternative given based on the Kyurem vote. I am not gonna lie, I've kinda lost most morale for this tier atp personally but I think it's still possible to make productive change via action on Tera Blast. The issue is however, the lack of support or 'complaints' about Tera Blast bar a select few. I'm gonna be blunt here, and this is not fear mongering, regardless of how much you care about Tera Blast (personally I dont care much either but I am trying to be self aware) we NEED to be vocal on Tera Blast Ban if we want this tier to have the CHANCE of a long lasting future. There is no 'can' or 'should', need is imperative. The only other alternative is doing nothing and leaving SV in this state, which is honestly a large part of why I was worried about this Kyurem outcome in the first place. The entire tier is hinging on this, please keep my words in mind.
Unfortunate, doesn't begin to describe my series.....Not only do I find out that one of my favorite players was involved in a cheating scandal and got banned but the verdict that I was hoping for, fought for and thought was for the better of the meta has been overtuned. The best part? Even with the cheaters removed, the verdict would have still remained if not for one pro-banner actually making a small "prank".
I aint gonna reveal who it is, just live with that guilt of yours, user.
This whole thing has been nothing but a clown show.
See ya. I am done with this shit. Fuck this tier
I aint gonna reveal who it is, just live with that guilt of yours, user.
This whole thing has been nothing but a clown show.
See ya. I am done with this shit. Fuck this tier
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Honestly the kyurem suspect left me so disheartened. Did the SV OU playerbase not see the absolute travesty of BW's community and decide to take major action on the numerous broken threats? Did they not see how NatDex, for all the bullshit in that tier, got rid of million other brokens? What were the SV OU playerbase thinking? I'm still so baffled
POV: you take voting unseriously
Seriously yall, you aren't toddlers. You have basic intelligence. Please.
This is the perfect time to retest Palafin. Embrace the chaos
You forgot the hidden 5th option, suspect Kingambit, which even players such as Storm Zone might vote ban on unlike with Kyurem. Kingambit is more toxic in design than Kyurem is 'cause of Supreme Overlord packed with ridiculous priority for a mon with that much natural bulk, and while there are players who want Kingambit to stay no matter what, I believe there's a chance offense players who repeatedly save Kyurem time after time again might be willing to punt Kingambit out of the tier.
Honestly these joke takes are extremely unhelpful rn
If I didn't meme too hard and vote DNB as a joke Kyurem would be banned...
The vote was 74-51. If I voted Ban it would be 75-50 which is 60%.
I'm sure it's too late to request my vote be changed, and even if my vote is disqualified Kyurem still remains unbanned.
These unique circumstance let us see what the meta is like without the broken mon. I've seen in OU chat some players saying they were DNB but after playing without it they realize their error.
Could we possibly have a quick revote with everyone who qualified last time? No new suspect, just the same ppl with legit reqs voting again. Even as I type this though it sounds weird. But also we can't suspect the same mon 3 times in one gen; it reflects so poorly on the community- it's terrible optics and sets a horrible precedent for future tiering decisions. We could still technically just have two suspects; the timeframe isn't bad and we do have a scandal. Just call it Kyurem suspect version 2.1.
I feel bad for trolling. I can live w Kyu in the tier but knowing so many ppl wanted it banned and it's not slightly because of me feels wild lol. Thousands of games will be affected because I wanted to be funny. Not sure how to process that.
Please have a quick emergency revote, and then move onto Gliscor as planned. Just moving on when a mon is so contentious it survives with a single vote is insane. Perhaps something like this can be factored into future suspect tests: If the vote is a razor thing margin then the mon is retested, or banned for a week then retested. Ignoring the fact that these mons are barely surviving isn't working- it's not properly listening to the community when they speak with their votes.
The vote was 74-51. If I voted Ban it would be 75-50 which is 60%.
I'm sure it's too late to request my vote be changed, and even if my vote is disqualified Kyurem still remains unbanned.
These unique circumstance let us see what the meta is like without the broken mon. I've seen in OU chat some players saying they were DNB but after playing without it they realize their error.
Could we possibly have a quick revote with everyone who qualified last time? No new suspect, just the same ppl with legit reqs voting again. Even as I type this though it sounds weird. But also we can't suspect the same mon 3 times in one gen; it reflects so poorly on the community- it's terrible optics and sets a horrible precedent for future tiering decisions. We could still technically just have two suspects; the timeframe isn't bad and we do have a scandal. Just call it Kyurem suspect version 2.1.
I feel bad for trolling. I can live w Kyu in the tier but knowing so many ppl wanted it banned and it's not slightly because of me feels wild lol. Thousands of games will be affected because I wanted to be funny. Not sure how to process that.
Please have a quick emergency revote, and then move onto Gliscor as planned. Just moving on when a mon is so contentious it survives with a single vote is insane. Perhaps something like this can be factored into future suspect tests: If the vote is a razor thing margin then the mon is retested, or banned for a week then retested. Ignoring the fact that these mons are barely surviving isn't working- it's not properly listening to the community when they speak with their votes.
Bro I'm gonna be /lh but this is genuinely all your fault :skull:
No. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
If you go out of your way to legitimately get voting requirements and then vote the opposite of what you want to happen, you need to take a long look in the mirror. You may end up turning to stone if you make eye contact with yourself, but otherwise some reflection is a good first step.
On the other hand, they can now say "I permanently single-handedly changed SV OU" for the rest of time
