Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Bold School said:
Since the SD Gliscor discussion went nowhere again, I thought I might bring up another talking point. What do people think about Treads here? Though weak to EQ, it is pretty decent into Facade/Knock Off variants of SD Gliscor. It is also faster and gets Ice Spinner.
Click to expand...
(TL;DR at the bottom)
Treads has been a mixed bag for me.

Sometimes, I genuinely think to myself "Oh man. I'm so glad I have you on my team!" While in other games, i'm wishing I beought Tusk instead. In practice, Treads to me feels like a Great Tusk sidegrade if you will. Less offensive potential (lower attack, no Headling Rush), but it's way faster, and answers Raging Bolt waaaaaaay better than Tusk ever could. Overall, i've grown to appreciate Iron Treads a little bit more in recent times. Certainly more than I have in DLC 1.

Makes me wonder if bulkier variants of the Roomba have been tested. Maybe a set with enough EVs to outspeed Landorus-T, max HP, duml the rest in attack, slap a Jolly nature and see what happens. Maybe someone smarter than me can bring a new perspective on that?

TL;DR:
Treads is a less splashable but solid alternative to Great Tusk, but feels dissapointing in some areas
 
Bold School said:
Since the SD Gliscor discussion went nowhere again, I thought I might bring up another talking point. What do people think about Treads here? Though weak to EQ, it is pretty decent into Facade/Knock Off variants of SD Gliscor. It is also faster and gets Ice Spinner.

If only Gengar still had Levitate, it would be a really good mon for Gliscor. Just don't switch in on the Knock Off. There is technically Haunter, but it isn't good enough. Gengar would already be niche by gen 9 OU standards.
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what does gengar even do to gliscor, specs hex tera ghost (still goobed by the most common tera)?
 
burstslinky said:
what does gengar even do to gliscor, specs hex tera ghost (still goobed by the most common tera)?
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Well, without knock off, gliscor wouldn't be able to do anything back to gengar, while gengar could setup with nasty plot on it (or use encore to lock it into a move if it does have knock by switching into the immunity). From here, gengar could chip away at gengar with sludge wave or hex/s-ball in order to hurt gliscor (with focus blast probably on the side to hit gambit).
Sadly gf didn't want gengar to have nice things and removed it in Gen 7. :(
 
Cyber-DJ said:
(TL;DR at the bottom)
Treads has been a mixed bag for me.

Sometimes, I genuinely think to myself "Oh man. I'm so glad I have you on my team!" While in other games, i'm wishing I beought Tusk instead. In practice, Treads to me feels like a Great Tusk sidegrade if you will. Less offensive potential (lower attack, no Headling Rush), but it's way faster, and answers Raging Bolt waaaaaaay better than Tusk ever could. Overall, i've grown to appreciate Iron Treads a little bit more in recent times. Certainly more than I have in DLC 1.

Makes me wonder if bulkier variants of the Roomba have been tested. Maybe a set with enough EVs to outspeed Landorus-T, max HP, duml the rest in attack, slap a Jolly nature and see what happens. Maybe someone smarter than me can bring a new perspective on that?

TL;DR:
Treads is a less splashable but solid alternative to Great Tusk, but feels dissapointing in some areas
Click to expand...
I personally like using this EV spread of Iron Treads to check Pokemon like Raging Bolt and Iron Crown:

Iron Treads @ Leftovers
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 200 HP / 116 SpD / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off / Iron Head / Ice Spinner
- Stealth Rock

You have just enough speed to outspeed Max Speed Iron Crown, and the Bulk is to take Dragon Pulses and Tachyon Cutters better.

I’ve found since behemoths like RB and IC exist Iron Threads is a nice glue mon to help manage those threats.
 
Bold School said:
If only Gengar still had Levitate, it would be a really good mon for Gliscor. Just don't switch in on the Knock Off. There is technically Haunter, but it isn't good enough. Gengar would already be niche by gen 9 OU standards.
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Sadly I don't think gengar would be ou in gen 8 even with levitate due to dragapult outclassing it in almost every way and by extension it wouldn't be ou in gen 9 due to its frailness combined with it being too slow for what it is in a world where monsterous pokemon like iron moth and roaring moon exist (aka the meowscarada conundrum)
 
Cyber-DJ said:
So where do you realistically see Orthworm carving a niche for itself exactly? I'm gonna be honest, this thing hasn't been on my radar at all, but it's got that "Hey. I do one or two things pretty decently with so and so advantages" thing nailed down, so it has to count for something.

I was thinking some kind of balance or bulky hazard stack?
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Worm's only viable place in the meta would be the role Zama, Garg and Corv fill up better as a bulky Body Press win condition. If your opponent only has physical attackers left you can essentially auto-win in a lot of scenarios with Iron Defense/Coil BP EQ/Iron Tail Rest.

It does have some cool niche use though even if it's not better overall. It's ability lets it beat RH Earth Power Lando which Zama struggles with, and paired with its typing it handles Flying-Moon without needing to Tera. It can do better vs Kyurem, Gliscor, and Tera Flying Dragonite. I run Tera Ghost to win the 1v1 vs Zama, Garg and Corv, and I guess thinking about it now Ursaluna as well. Lefties is best but something like Rocky Helmet, Protective Pads, Clear Amulet or Covert Cloak might have some use. I run max HP max Def- I think just fully dedicating it to handle all physical attackers is best. That said, some Spd investment could get some use.
Roshino said:
Took me a second because life is, you know, busy, but allow me to pull a Morkal


SYLVEON
View attachment 679813

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ice/Poison
EVs: 212 HP / 228 Def / 68 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Calm Mind/Tera Blast/Roar/Hyper Beam
- Wish
- Protect​

Now that Kyurem is back in the tier on a technicality, we have to think of ways of dealing with it without crippling other matchups. Going HO and stacking hazards and phasing until it dies kinda works (until it doesn't but I digress), and outstalling it can work as well but having to go either full HO or full stall is boring as fuck, which is why I thought of the newest degenerate eeveelution to stop it on its tracks.

The set above is made in such a way that it can hold down anything from modest Specs to Adamant loaded dice and anything in between. I'm not one for shiny Pokémon but this guy HAS to be shiny. Gotta keep the theme clear when fucking up the ice dragon.

First, the main reason why Sylveon is chosen over other options: Pixilate Hyper Voice is the only voice-based Fairy-Type move in the game that can uninvested threaten an OHKO on Kyurem after rocks. It being voice-based, SubTect also gets OHKO'd like the Ubers bitch they are. And also because it's cute.

212 HP for bulk and the magic 7% lefties healing, 68 SpA to deal 75.1% to offensive sets (OHKO after rocks), rest in defense/bold to round the rest of the matchups.

Tera Ice is a strong defensive type here, similar logic to that one Tera Ice Hydrapple set I saw some time ago. Though outside of Kyurem it only sheds Poison weakness, it can be used in a pinch when you get chipped over the course of a game for a surprise KO, and you can also use Tera Blast Ice if you're feeling spicy because you know fuck Gliscor. You can also go Tera Poison instead for the classic weaknesses inversion approach, and it comes with the advantage of being immune to Toxic which is a god-send if you're running CM to threaten game over. Roar for phasing. Hyper Beam for the Youtube clip

Wish+Tect is required not only for recovery, but also because wishpassing is still strong regardless of match-up and you could go for other shenanigans to fuck Kyurem and ONLY Kyurem but then you're useless if the enemy doesn't have one.

The rationale behind how it beats all of its sets. All of the sets below are assuming Modest/Adamant for maximum damage. Jolly/Timid sets get rolled outside of crits and freezes. Without palpable prior chip, Sylveon avoids *all* 2HKOs, so unless game conditions are outside the norm and you play your hand right and safe, you shouldn't lose to the common Tera Ground/Electric, and Tera Ice can only break through in very specific circumstances.

SPECS

Sylveon takes 59% on an Ice Beam max roll. Counting Leftovers, on a switch-in and on a following protect you can take a second Ice Beam and wish, recovering some health in the process (with Lefties, a Wish+Protect cycle heals 62% instead of 50%). That is not advisable however because the opposing Kyurem player is on an advantageous field because of Freeze fishing, so the game plan here is to get SR up ASAP and KEEP IT UP. On a first SR switch Sylveon just kills in a single Hyper Voice. No Draco Meteor. No questions asked.

BOOTS ATTACKER

The same as above, but with the difference that Sylveon just wins harder because it doesn't hit nearly as hard. Very safe, save for an Earth Power SpD drop on a switch-in, Sylveon's natural Fairy typing evades all SE hits and Meteor, so you can play for a CM or a regular 2HKO more easily.

LOADED DICE

Similar interaction to Specs, but with the difference that Kyurem cannot boost speed with Scale Shot. Even if the enemy Kyurem gets a read and DDs on you, you can take the +1 and kill after rocks similar to Specs. If you switch in on an attack you can just Wish before attacking for insurance. If you're chipped you can Tera to take one more hit before taking it out. Leftovers ensures no Icicle Spear 2HKO from a 54% damage high roll.

MIXED NMI DD

Again, similar to Loaded Dice but with the difference that it's very flowchart-y and you can only lose in a unlucky Freeze-Dry, crit or on a double max hit Icicle Spear at +1, or with enemy Tera Ice spent with a double max hit Icicle Spear.

SUBTECT

Just scream at the motherfucker until it stops moving. Max 27% damage dealt, gets immediately OHKOd by Hyper Voice if it attempts setting up a Substitute, can only win on freeze hax.

----------------------

When in doubt, scream at it. Real loud.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Kyurem can Tera. If you come into +1 dance dice you lose even if you Tera Ice on the first set of Spears, they just click Scale next turn and win.
68 SpA Pixilate Tera Ice Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ground Kyurem: 147-174 (37.5 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
versus:
+1 252+ Atk Tera Ground Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 212 HP / 228+ Def Tera Ice Sylveon: 132-156 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- approx. 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Tera Ground Kyurem Scale Shot (4 hits) vs. 212 HP / 228+ Def Tera Ice Sylveon: 264-312 (68.7 - 81.2%) -- approx. 2HKO
It can't really switch into specs either
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 177-208 (46 - 54.1%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
So, like you said you need SR up and a Tera Ice to handle this consistently. At which point you ask yourself is burning a Tera and essentially trading mons worth it to get rid of Kyurem?

I like the concept of Hyper Voice and it can def win vs Sub/Tect which can't be said about a lot of mons rn, so that's cool, but I think in this meta you're better off going offensive with this mon. I've gotten the most use out of Scarf, but I'm also experimenting with Specs and Hyper Voice + Trailblaze + Throat Spray. Messing around with Tera Steel/Ground and it's filler moves like Shadow Ball and Psyshock.

You could run a Grassy Seed CM Stored Power set, but again there are other mons that do that better.
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Orthworm replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2227006408-jfbhznb6rk9d322z0nwibaowl01jt5fpw

Sylveon replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2226999143-v4r0tqzwleb8loqbph8cf901r2a1tb6pw?p2
 
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Bold School said:
Since the SD Gliscor discussion went nowhere again, I thought I might bring up another talking point. What do people think about Treads here? Though weak to EQ, it is pretty decent into Facade/Knock Off variants of SD Gliscor. It is also faster and gets Ice Spinner.

If only Gengar still had Levitate, it would be a really good mon for Gliscor. Just don't switch in on the Knock Off. There is technically Haunter, but it isn't good enough. Gengar would already be niche by gen 9 OU standards.
Click to expand...
I like the special variants and the physicals with volt switch. It can also work as a fairy check (except Primarina)
 
Azumarill would be MUCH better without Waterpon. It's not bad, but it's not good either. It's held back so hard by Wellspring, but it still can cook on teams that do well into Wellspring. I think Banded is the better option right now, though, over Belly Drum. Allows you to come in multiple times.
 
LoseToRU? said:
Worm's only viable place in the meta would be the role Zama, Garg and Corv fill up better as a bulky Body Press win condition. If your opponent only has physical attackers left you can essentially auto-win in a lot of scenarios with Iron Defense/Coil BP EQ/Iron Tail Rest.

It does have some cool niche use though even if it's not better overall. It's ability lets it beat RH Earth Power Lando which Zama struggles with, and paired with its typing it handles Flying-Moon without needing to Tera. It can do better vs Kyurem, Gliscor, and Tera Flying Dragonite. I run Tera Ghost to win the 1v1 vs Zama, Garg and Corv, and I guess thinking about it now Ursaluna as well. Lefties is best but something like Rocky Helmet, Protective Pads, Clear Amulet or Covert Cloak might have some use. I run max HP max Def- I think just fully dedicating it to handle all physical attackers is best. That said, some Spd investment could get some use.

Unfortunately, Kyurem can Tera. If you come into +1 dance dice you lose even if you Tera Ice on the first set of Spears, they just click Scale next turn and win.
68 SpA Pixilate Tera Ice Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Ground Kyurem: 147-174 (37.5 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
versus:
+1 252+ Atk Tera Ground Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 212 HP / 228+ Def Tera Ice Sylveon: 132-156 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- approx. 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Tera Ground Kyurem Scale Shot (4 hits) vs. 212 HP / 228+ Def Tera Ice Sylveon: 264-312 (68.7 - 81.2%) -- approx. 2HKO
It can't really switch into specs either
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 177-208 (46 - 54.1%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
So, like you said you need SR up and a Tera Ice to handle this consistently. At which point you ask yourself is burning a Tera and essentially trading mons worth it to get rid of Kyurem?

I like the concept of Hyper Voice and it can def win vs Sub/Tect which can't be said about a lot of mons rn, so that's cool, but I think in this meta you're better off going offensive with this mon. I've gotten the most use out of Scarf, but I'm also experimenting with Specs and Hyper Voice + Trailblaze + Throat Spray. Messing around with Tera Steel/Ground and it's filler moves like Shadow Ball and Psyshock.

All that said, the meta is fairly prepped for Fairies. Scarf has a niche in the surprise factor if you save it for late game, but outside of that your options are limited. Your set has issues with Iron Crown, Ghold, Iron Treads, Glowking, Iron Moth, Clodsire, Rilla, Gliscor, Ogerpon-W, Gambit, Cinder, Psychic Noise Rilla, any Encore mon, etc.

You could run a Grassy Seed CM Stored Power set, but again there are other mons that do that better.
-
Orthworm replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2227006408-jfbhznb6rk9d322z0nwibaowl01jt5fpw

Sylveon replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2226999143-v4r0tqzwleb8loqbph8cf901r2a1tb6pw?p2
Click to expand...

To win, the DD set has to get a successful read and exhaust Tera AND have Sylveon not exhaust Tera AND have hazards off the field. Any of the above are untrue it just loses or at the very least gets a 3/4 health hole opened in its chest and can't really switch in anymore after SR is up, and of course the team has to be built with hazard maintenance in mind.

The Specs set only has a roll to kill if you don't Protect to get Leftovers +7%, not to mention its set is immediately revealed and thus much more exploitable.

The thing with Tera is: what Kyurem in its right mind will immediately Tera Ice to guarantee a KO on a Sylveon? It hasn't happened to me yet. Tera Ground and Electric thud, and even then they have to either have multiple max rolls, a crit, or a freeze to make progress unless they get a significant outplay, but by then that is normal and they have already exhausted Tera and revealed its set. And if I were to deal with it by exhausting Tera or trading I'm fine for the same reason that one Probopass set was used in HO. Removing a threat like Kingambit (and in this case Kyurem) is the reason the set exists at all.

The set having issues with all of the mons you mentioned is absolutely normal. Wishpassing is still a thing to deny progress, Hyper Voice deals some damage, and not to mention teammates can cover for it just dandy. Not to mention that this set incidentally checks a bunch of otherwise problematic mon common sets like Zama, Darkrai, Ival and Pult.

Speedy/Offensive Sylveon simply gets ruined by most Kyurem sets (I think it can still check them once but I'm too lazy to run the calcs). The bulky set in the OP has its use case precisely to avoid an autoloss on a wrong set guess. There are better options for that kind of aggressive set. You could run Alluring Voice to keep the sub-ignore aspect instead of Moonblast in a plethora of fast Fairy types and you'd be good to go.
 
Roshino said:
Unfortunately Frosmoth gets ruined by Scale Shot variants, and it really struggles outside of SpA Kyurem matchups. Its typing is simply atrocious. If it takes a single Knock Off and loses HDB it ceases being a real mon. You could make it the designated Tera hog in a team. There was this one high-rated RMT with it but I can't remember who
Click to expand...

I run it with Misty Terrain Galar Weezing which I feel is really good in the current meta. Softens the blows from Dragon Type Attacks and turns some checks into temporary counters
 
RainebowValiant said:
Azumarill would be MUCH better without Waterpon. It's not bad, but it's not good either. It's held back so hard by Wellspring, but it still can cook on teams that do well into Wellspring. I think Banded is the better option right now, though, over Belly Drum. Allows you to come in multiple times.
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252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 310-366 (102.9 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I wouldn’t be surprised if people would switch Woger into azu expecting Belly drum.
My take right now is kinda like a worse kingambit- slow, but has solid priority and hits really hard with a good defensive typing.
Also:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 175-207 (34.7 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
SaveMeJebus said:
I run it with Misty Terrain Galar Weezing which I feel is really good in the current meta. Softens the blows from Dragon Type Attacks and turns some checks into temporary counters
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Is it? I have tried that with Geezing before. I always felt Neutralizing Gas or Levitate were better. There was this one A-tails set I very briefly used with MT, but that was because I found it was better to set it manually after Aurora Veil than to take up a slot with Misty Surge Geezing. Or did you also mean to set it manually with Geezing and use that move with a different ability? Your wording is interesting because it could be taken to mean the move and not the ability.

As for uses, I could see how MT would be good against Bolt 50/50s specifically. I could also see how MT makes switches into Pult way safer. I'm not sure exactly how many other cases there are. Kyurem has good enough coverage where I feel it is mostly irrelevant, especially with the threat of DD sets. Outrage Moon is kinda beastly, but just having a Tera Fairy on your team is really common. Maybe Walking Wake? If you lower the power of Dragon moves, maybe a Dragon could better switch into it?

I have always focused more on that status prevention side of MT, so I don't really know how relevant it is. Yes, we have a lot of good Dragons. But many of those don't even use strong Dragon moves for a lot of their sets.
 
Roshino said:
To win, the DD set has to get a successful read and exhaust Tera AND have Sylveon not exhaust Tera AND have hazards off the field. Any of the above are untrue it just loses or at the very least gets a 3/4 health hole opened in its chest and can't really switch in anymore after SR is up, and of course the team has to be built with hazard maintenance in mind.

The Specs set only has a roll to kill if you don't Protect to get Leftovers +7%, not to mention its set is immediately revealed and thus much more exploitable.

The thing with Tera is: what Kyurem in its right mind will immediately Tera Ice to guarantee a KO on a Sylveon? It hasn't happened to me yet. Tera Ground and Electric thud, and even then they have to either have multiple max rolls, a crit, or a freeze to make progress unless they get a significant outplay, but by then that is normal and they have already exhausted Tera and revealed its set. And if I were to deal with it by exhausting Tera or trading I'm fine for the same reason that one Probopass set was used in HO. Removing a threat like Kingambit (and in this case Kyurem) is the reason the set exists at all.

The set having issues with all of the mons you mentioned is absolutely normal. Wishpassing is still a thing to deny progress, Hyper Voice deals some damage, and not to mention teammates can cover for it just dandy. Not to mention that this set incidentally checks a bunch of otherwise problematic mon common sets like Zama, Darkrai, Ival and Pult.

Speedy/Offensive Sylveon simply gets ruined by most Kyurem sets (I think it can still check them once but I'm too lazy to run the calcs). The bulky set in the OP has its use case precisely to avoid an autoloss on a wrong set guess. There are better options for that kind of aggressive set. You could run Alluring Voice to keep the sub-ignore aspect instead of Moonblast in a plethora of fast Fairy types and you'd be good to go.
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The dice sets forsure wins the 1v1 in a vacuum. Your set forsure wins vs sub/tect in a vacuum. The in-between areas I could say it's a soft check and decent answer depending on team comp and if hazards are up. As for checking those other mons listed they all can win with the right Tera- Zama Steel or Fire. Rai Psn, Pult Ghost TB- Ival though yeah that's a good MU. Sylveon is just a very limited mon and would do a lot better with some more tools like Psychic Noise, Taunt, Mystical Fire, Pain Split etc.

The Silly said:
On the topic of fairies, the OU chatroom recently discussed Azu in OU. Thoughts on how it performs?
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Classic BD might be decent, especially on Rain, but we have too many dragons and Dozo running around for it to consistently sweep with Jet. It also needs to find a place to set up and mitigate hazard damage. There's essentially no point in going for BD when you could just SD with Scizor or DDance with E-Killer Nite.
I'm not sure when it regained access to Whirlpool but I thought about using my classic lure set from Gen 8 earlier this gen but it didn't have the move. Looking at it now though it appears to have access to it again. That said, this Azu is some nasty work lol
:Azumarill:
Azumarill @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet/Wide Lens/Zoom Lens
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Water/Fairy/Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlpool
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Rest/Encore
Last gen this was my favorite Rilla lure and it was good for Urshi.
This gen you could lure in Dozo, Rilla, Meow. It has enough bulk for an emergency Perish Song against a lot of common set up mons.
Haven't tried it yet but on teams where you need Dozo gone this could be fire.
Perish Song + trapping move is slept on imo. Prima also gets this same combination so something to consider.
Gengar with Mean Look + Perish is nice with Sub and Taunt, let's you handle a good amount of bulky mons, esp with Tera factored in like Flying for Clod. I also had a lot of fun with Fire Spin Altaria. Rest + Natural Cure let's you leave the exchange at full health them come back in later. One game I Perish trapped 4 mons with Altaria lol.
 
LoseToRU? said:
The dice sets forsure wins the 1v1 in a vacuum. Your set forsure wins vs sub/tect in a vacuum. The in-between areas I could say it's a soft check and decent answer depending on team comp and if hazards are up. As for checking those other mons listed they all can win with the right Tera- Zama Steel or Fire. Rai Psn, Pult Ghost TB- Ival though yeah that's a good MU. Sylveon is just a very limited mon and would do a lot better with some more tools like Psychic Noise, Taunt, Mystical Fire, Pain Split etc.


Classic BD might be decent, especially on Rain, but we have too many dragons and Dozo running around for it to consistently sweep with Jet. It also needs to find a place to set up and mitigate hazard damage. There's essentially no point in going for BD when you could just SD with Scizor or DDance with E-Killer Nite.
I'm not sure when it regained access to Whirlpool but I thought about using my classic lure set from Gen 8 earlier this gen but it didn't have the move. Looking at it now though it appears to have access to it again. That said, this Azu is some nasty work lol
:Azumarill:
Azumarill @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet/Wide Lens/Zoom Lens
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Water/Fairy/Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlpool
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Rest/Encore
Last gen this was my favorite Rilla lure and it was good for Urshi.
This gen you could lure in Dozo, Rilla, Meow. It has enough bulk for an emergency Perish Song against a lot of common set up mons.
Haven't tried it yet but on teams where you need Dozo gone this could be fire.
Perish Song + trapping move is slept on imo. Prima also gets this same combination so something to consider.
Gengar with Mean Look + Perish is nice with Sub and Taunt, let's you handle a good amount of bulky mons, esp with Tera factored in like Flying for Clod. I also had a lot of fun with Fire Spin Altaria. Rest + Natural Cure let's you leave the exchange at full health them come back in later. One game I Perish trapped 4 mons with Altaria lol.
Click to expand...
If you perish and they switch out before you whirlpool?
 
Finchinator said:
Unless something changes, Gliscor will be the next suspect. It may be some time before it happens though and I will provide updates when I can.
Click to expand...
So theoretically if Gliscor gets banned we wait for like a month for the meta to resettle and then we’ll probably suspect Tera Blast depending on what the popular opinion becomes?
Finchinator said:
I’m not committing to any timeline or any line of action. My job is to be transparent to you guys, but I think trying to play fortune teller causes more harm than good. We will play it one step at a time and reevaluate when we can. For now, best to just lay low and see how next few weeks go. I’ll be sure to provide information when I can.
Click to expand...
Ok thanks for the info. I agree with tiering cautiously. Just wanted to ask for the rest of the people, although I don't really care what happens next.
 
Conflux123 said:
So theoretically if Gliscor gets banned we wait for like a month for the meta to resettle and then we’ll probably suspect Tera Blast depending on what the popular opinion becomes?
Click to expand...
I’m not committing to any timeline or any line of action. My job is to be transparent to you guys, but I think trying to play fortune teller causes more harm than good. We will play it one step at a time and reevaluate when we can. For now, best to just lay low and see how next few weeks go. I’ll be sure to provide information when I can.
 
Like I said before, I don't understand the point of this suspect since his main counter (Kyurem) has been unbanned and since a suspect about him will not come up soon, Gliscor will surely rest here.
 
Maxicheese said:
Like I said before, I don't understand the point of this suspect since his main counter (Kyurem) has been unbanned and since a suspect about him will not come up soon, Gliscor will surely rest here.
Click to expand...
Kyurem being in the tier doesn’t un-break Gl*scor, it just makes it appear a bit less broken. Kyurem and Ogerpon-W are the only Pokemon that can reliably counter every Gl*scor set, everything else can be beaten with the right Tera. I’d honestly argue that Gl*scor has always been broken, an immunity to status conditions will NEVER be healthy for the meta and anyone who thinks otherwise frankly has a screw loose. Not to mention that the bat’s ability also comes with unremovable Leftovers on steroids in addition to that.
 
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