Resource SV UU DLC 2 Viability Rankings- Update at Post #358

[HydreigonTheChild]

flame body tran is the singular recent meta trend that is a problem at all imo. skarm is not dominant whatsoever, quavo doesn't even resist your moves and bulky is a meme outside of stall frankly, mence has not replaced zap whatsoever ???, dogi you knock and then it's just u-turned on forever (this is really easy to force for the most part). there's also just 0 way you said "dogi checks it but also coba will pick back up after dogi's ban" like this is very silly and inarguable against because it's entirely theoretical and assumes okidogi is the reason for coba downward usage to begin with (it's really not).

contrary to your personal experience, lokix hasn't dropped off at all in my view and is arguably better than it was in the past. very hard to make a cogent counterpoint to this quote because there's really not anything argued here beyond "here are pokemon that check it" which is very unconvincing because i can give you a myriad of checks to tornadus-t, and yet i am not arguing for it to drop solely based on "these pokemon beat it therefore it can't be s rank"

- Skarmory while not as popular is still relevant
- Quaq does not resist it but can still setup all over you. I have been hearing quite a lot of talk behind bulky quaq as a legit option so im unsure how good it is to dismiss it. Feels very odd and stuck in the old meta to do so
- Dogi can 1. BU in front of you 2. Scarf can nuke you pretty well
- This is also assuming that trends in uu are just smth that dont happen... what does dogi setup on more than anything? Coba. Coba as a fighting type is less likely to want to be paired with another fighting type who is weak to ground as well.

You state that "very hard to make a cogent counterpoint to this quote because there's really not anything argued here beyond "here are pokemon that check it" which is very unconvincing because i can give you a myriad of checks to tornadus-t, and yet i am not arguing for it to drop solely based on "these pokemon beat it therefore it can't be s rank""

But i never said this... i mentioned how forcing progress with kix, slotting it onto teams, and actually having it put in work is smth I have seen it not do as much. Different from "lol the increase number of checks = kix is worse" which may be true or not.

Why are you dropping slowking then? you mention dark types, you mention it wants smth else to hit hydrapple (to my knowledge nobody has fitted ice beam on their slowking) but that is also "here are pokemon that can check it" and i can counter argue "these pokemon beat it therefore it must drop to B+"

Lokix has problems I felt I left out of the comment

1. its been known for a while how bulkier teams can kinda dunk on lokix, this is smth I have seen talked about in the discord quite often

2. The trends on HO which was its best MU are putting on tech that screw with it, this leads to lokix being less effective at just being their #1 enemy and more so that goes to taunt torn-t

3. New threads of heatran, skarmory, the rise of dogi, pickpocket tink gaining usage as of late, according to you slowking is dropping out of favor, hoopa has caused latios to be worse, weavile is worse than we thought and the need to revenge it with lokix isnt that desperate (who can also tera ice to beat it)

These trends combined I feel make lokix just an A tier mon, this is a mon that I feel just is not very good at forcing progress, its MU into hyper offense isnt as good as it once was, and in general new mons can kinda make its role redundant esp with fastest mons like weavile, scarf hoopa, scarf dogi, scarf gard, etc.... I do not think teams really want to fall back onto lokix as much

HOMEFIELD REPLAYS - semis, finals, round 4, round 3

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-798740?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-799056?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2224222777-tcon220wdbdtammqh35z3bozsjvmlmupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-799155
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-799159
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-799163
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-799221
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-799344
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-799524?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-799531
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-802529
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-803631
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-802063
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-802116
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-802415
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-802416?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2218148721-q40vc1c8x1k4ftv4337yjwinoj520ozpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-796326?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-796445?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-796493
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-797220
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-796564
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-797224?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2221131014-0ztnfpto16igclwgtwm2gl2hvyossp6pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2221127414-91a2xxa8z7vtuaw3giei2if5p7710m6pw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2221288541-jca2zu62her7v6npydcvi4idgm8e0f0pw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2221290629-wln7gg3egxwwab3xn80c97mgmma0oa9pw?p2

These replays show that lokix isnt that common, it was seen quite a bit on HO but all in all it did not amount to much for an A+ tier mon

 

[Heatranator]

- Quaq does not resist it but can still setup all over you. I have been hearing quite a lot of talk behind bulky quaq as a legit option so im unsure how good it is to dismiss it. Feels very odd and stuck in the old meta to do so

+2 252 Atk Black Glasses Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quaquaval: 358-422 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Nice switch in, and I doubt quaq's are going to be max hp max defense, they probably want some sort of attack investment or speed investment.

2. The trends on HO which was its best MU are putting on tech that screw with it, this leads to lokix being less effective at just being their #1 enemy and more so that goes to taunt torn-t

I feel like this only shows more how Lokix is S tier (or wherever Rabia put it) is because said mons have a great matchup against lokix. Revavroom quad resisting f-imp is very important for it as it doesn't have to slot in protect (not that outside of the Lokix matchup its bad, its still very good). Same with comfey, can completely ignore fimp and ko it with draining kiss. These mons would still be used on HO, of course, but a big reason why is because lokix is so scary for them.

3. New threads of heatran, skarmory, the rise of dogi, pickpocket tink gaining usage as of late, according to you slowking is dropping out of favor, hoopa has caused latios to be worse, weavile is worse than we thought and the need to revenge it with lokix isnt that desperate (who can also tera ice to beat it)

As somebody who has used SD kix, all of these can struggle against kix. Heatran takes 66% minimum from +2 knock off if its defensive, while offensive variants have a chance to be outright OHKO'd. Skarmory takes about 56% min from +2 knock off, and with tera dark its 75% min, and getting 25% on skarm isn't that hard to do. Okidoki has to be scarf, as otherwise +2 tera dark knock off outright ko's it. Tinkaton takes way too much damage to reliably switch in, as its 2hit ko'd. Sure, you might gets its item, but it still outspeeds you and kos you regardless. Hoopa being in the tier and being a monster means something which can easily revenge kill it from full is very useful.

These replays show that lokix isnt that common, it was seen quite a bit on HO but all in all it did not amount to much for an A+ tier mon

Just because a mon isn't seen all that often, doesn't mean it isn't amazing. In RU, krookodile wasn't seen at all in week 7 of SCL (krookodile is A+ rank on the VR, and many think its one of the best mons in the tier), and hoodra, a really great mon in the tier, has had very limited appearences outside of week one. These two examples prove how usage /=/ viability, even at top level.

 

[Catcus]

A- -> A
Thundurus has had a surprisingly good performance post zap. Latios dropping off in usage is great for it. It likes a lot of the small moveset changes zap leaving caused like iron head on drill and focus blast/taunt on torn. Pivot Sets are some of the best breakers in the tier with their good speed and varied coverage. Nasty Plot has also become a staple on HO, threatening bulky mons like toxapex for partners like quaq. It's been super consistent and it isn't slowing down.

Zarude has been a great pick for a while. SD has been super consistent, with bulk-up + Trailblaze sets and the occasional scarf set putting in work as well. It has a notably great match-up Vs HO, beating mons like Mew and Polteageist. Being a bulky, strong, fast dark type is incredible here for mons like Hoopa. Plus, while I think its already A rn, If dogi gets banned it looks even better.

A -> A-
A lot of meta developements have really hurt gren. Hoopa as a fast, choiced dark type has been a big thorn in its side for a while now, both out-competing it and beating it. With Weavile arriving and kix being here too, That makes for three fast darks That compete with it, all of which outspeed it. Quaq rising as the premier HO water type is also horrible for it, with it beating non-extrasenory sets and eating up bb's usage. At this point, putting it on the same level as Heatran and Scizor feels wrong.

B- -> B
Check weavile and this mon is fantastic. Defensive sets let you check Excadrill, Heatran Non-Taxel Quaq, and more while dishing out some pretty good damage. Dragon Dance sets on the other hand are crazy strong sweepers, with Outrage dealing Some absurd damage once you get rid of the steels.

B- -> C
Yeah Sorry Chester but the torn weakness just feels like too much. It's fine otherwise, but it's really hard to build with that torn weakness plus mons like dogi really hurting it

B- -> C
A lot of the mons that abuse Psychic Terrain have kinda become as good outside of it. Hoopa is hoopa, Poltea's become broken on HO, and lucha's been getting use on other terrains plus some have tried it outside of terrain as a whole. Psychic Terrain just doesn't feel as necessary nowadays.

Thoughts on Other Noms

A+ -> lower (mon's still pretty hard to check defensively and hasn't really dropped off imo)
A+ -> S (Maybe I'd agree a if it was like June. Kix has some trouble with mons like cobal and dogi being great. Offense and HO prep for it so much with protect mons, rev, comfey, and more. It can have some major blindspots as speed control and isn't as insane as it used to be. I think A+ is still good with Knock-turn giving it great utility and SD sets popping off, but S is a stretch)
A- -> lower (regen + chilly reception is still busted. I feel like slowking doesn't do what you'd usually want out of a bulky water rn but it still does other things and it does those things well)
B -> B+ (I'd say HO is B+ rn and these two plus quaq are the big 3 of it. Rev I nommed up last time and it still feels great and makes sense to rise. I'm so sorry for nomming poltea down last time cuz I was so wrong that mon is disgusting. Honestly I'd be down to put it higher.)
B -> lower (I love a mon who's been mid for like 4 months. It struggles too much with our best walls to break consistently and it's too slow to beat most offensive mons. Honestly I'd put it in C.)
B+ -> B (This mon still works well imo. While its passive beyond spikes-setting, its arguably the single best volt-blocker in the tier. It can block thundy-y, rotom, bellibolt and even cobalion, while getting an opportunity to set spikes or toxic each time. Taunt rising is annoying but cobal still doesnt do much to you and clod shouldn't have been used for torn and mew anyway. It's clearly flawed but it's highs are still high enough to where B+ makes sense.)
B+ -> higher (I'd be fine with it but This is one of the most divisive mon in the tier. B+ is realistically a good placement)
C -> higher (webs and ribom are legit, but ribom is still a flawed setter and webs as a whole is still pretty flawed with all the boots here. Manaphy also didn't really rise because of webs and has seen plenty of use on BO and HO as well. Araq also competes with ribom specifically as a setter)
C -> B- (Super underrated and totally deserves a rise. Not Much to say I just really like this mon and think it works super well)
B- -> C (literally just copy and paste what I said about Harc)

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

+2 252 Atk Black Glasses Tinted Lens Tera Dark Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quaquaval: 358-422 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Nice switch in, and I doubt quaq's are going to be max hp max defense, they probably want some sort of attack investment or speed investment.

Quaq isnt a check to SD kix regardless, why did u put SD kix and not boots kix? is smth idk...

252+ Atk Tinted Lens Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Quaquaval: 164-194 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tinted Lens Lokix U-turn vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Quaquaval: 118-140 (31.5 - 37.4%) -- 87.4% chance to 3HKO

generally u do a good enough job of checking it of it anyway with bulk esp against boots and u can generally get a spin off which is what a check is..

252+ Atk Tinted Lens Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Quaquaval: 164-194 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

SD quaq vs boots kix is often smth that you can SD up on or get aqua step boosts... and even then kix cant really revenge a quaquaval without heavy chip and often times quaq will get away with stuff

I feel like this only shows more how Lokix is S tier (or wherever Rabia put it) is because said mons have a great matchup against lokix. Revavroom quad resisting f-imp is very important for it as it doesn't have to slot in protect (not that outside of the Lokix matchup its bad, its still very good). Same with comfey, can completely ignore fimp and ko it with draining kiss. These mons would still be used on HO, of course, but a big reason why is because lokix is so scary for them.

2. No, I think if a mon is performing worse as a result of trends adapting to it then it deserves to either drop or go lower. Even without lokix they would be used as comfey can run away with games, revavroom atfer a shift gear can really run through some offensive teams and with tera fire has a good MU into dirge

If the tier adaptations make the mon worse... I feel this isnt an argument for the mon being S tier but more a reason to drop it. After all its less consistent because people are running more countermeasures against it (although this may be an argument towards it being more broken)

As somebody who has used SD kix, all of these can struggle against kix. Heatran takes 66% minimum from +2 knock off if its defensive, while offensive variants have a chance to be outright OHKO'd. Skarmory takes about 56% min from +2 knock off, and with tera dark its 75% min, and getting 25% on skarm isn't that hard to do. Okidoki has to be scarf, as otherwise +2 tera dark knock off outright ko's it. Tinkaton takes way too much damage to reliably switch in, as its 2hit ko'd. Sure, you might gets its item, but it still outspeeds you and kos you regardless. Hoopa being in the tier and being a monster means something which can easily revenge kill it from full is very useful.

Why are you only mentioning SD kix? The counterplay between SD kix and boots kix is different and you are not gonna be surprised by a sd kix or boots kix in a game...

I can mention smth like scarf okidogi vs BU okidogi, for scarf you may use mons like pex, slowking, pecharunt, sinistcha, dirge, bellibolt, opposing dogi... while BU can run through these mons quite well and you often will use offensive mons to force a tera and chip it down.

Just because a mon isn't seen all that often, doesn't mean it isn't amazing. In RU, krookodile wasn't seen at all in week 7 of SCL (krookodile is A+ rank on the VR, and many think its one of the best mons in the tier), and hoodra, a really great mon in the tier, has had very limited appearences outside of week one. These two examples prove how usage /=/ viability, even at top level.

Odd... because kix seeing 0 usage in such a meta prob says smth... even then i feel its worth a nomination to A rank due to it. Often times when smth gets looked at its cuz its usage is low for its rank

I mean people are not using the mon for a reason, its been a month after the shifts and its usage is this low in tours? smth must not be right... If its usage goes sky high next tour then maybe we can go at it again and be like "hmm kix might be S tier" but as of rn... that isnt the case
_____
These are odd points... lokix main set is still SD and the main reason for nomination is the boots set as according to rabia sd only gets a mention there.... yes sd sets are good but not S tier good, and idt boots pivot is S tier esp after meta shifts

 

[Heatranator]

uaq isnt a check to SD kix regardless, why did u put SD kix and not boots kix? is smth idk...

Because SD kix is a viable set and you need to account for that? Also kix just u-turns on quaq, which you have shown, does a sizeable chunk to it. Being 3hit ko'd by a mon isn't really a good sign of a mon checking it.

SD quaq vs boots kix is often smth that you can SD up on or get aqua step boosts... and even then kix cant really revenge a quaquaval without heavy chip and often times quaq will get away with stuff

Doesn't kix just u-turn out, meaning that you essentially have a dead quaq? Like, your calc showing it 2hit ko'd by fimp isn't really showing how quaq actually answers it at all.

2. No, I think if a mon is performing worse as a result of trends adapting to it then it deserves to either drop or go lower. Even without lokix they would be used as comfey can run away with games, revavroom atfer a shift gear can really run through some offensive teams and with tera fire has a good MU into dirge

Yes, that's what I said, these mons are still good outside of the Lokix matchup, but a part of why they are so good is that they actually can deal with lokix, which is often otherwise a struggle for HO. If multiple metagame innovations have occured to account for a mon, and it is still amazing, then I would say that is still good.

Why are you only mentioning SD kix? The counterplay between SD kix and boots kix is different and you are not gonna be surprised by a sd kix or boots kix in a game...

Because that's the main set that I've used, which destroys all the counterplay you said to kix. The counterplay being different means that if you switch in okidogi expecting the pivot set on an offense team, and it reveals SD, you might be in trouble. Idk why this is a bad thing, this is just a good thing.

I can mention smth like scarf okidogi vs BU okidogi, for scarf you may use mons like pex, slowking, pecharunt, sinistcha, dirge, bellibolt, opposing dogi... while BU can run through these mons quite well and you often will use offensive mons to force a tera and chip it down.

Isn't this part of the reason okidogi is being suspected rn lol? Like, this doesn't make sense to me as a reason to demote lokix.

Odd... because kix seeing 0 usage in such a meta prob says smth... even then i feel its worth a nomination to A rank due to it. Often times when smth gets looked at its cuz its usage is low for its rank

Again, look at my two examples for RU. They both had low usage (though krook only for week 7) and yet if you asked RU players, they would say they are both A minimum, with most saying they are A+ rank. You need to determine whether its because of other factors why they aren't used, such as awkward to fit on comps or something else.
Also Lokix is nowhere close to A rank lol. Even if you disagree with the S rank nomination, Lokix still has knock-turn and SD sets which again, have different counterplay but are individually great sets.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Because SD kix is a viable set and you need to account for that? Also kix just u-turns on quaq, which you have shown, does a sizeable chunk to it. Being 3hit ko'd by a mon isn't really a good sign of a mon checking it.

Doesn't kix just u-turn out, meaning that you essentially have a dead quaq? Like, your calc showing it 2hit ko'd by fimp isn't really showing how quaq actually answers it at all.

Quaq is a check i mentioned... not a full on counter lol. It isnt some pex answer vs it but it does a good enough job just like how zapdos is a good deterrent against it despite it hating knock -> U-turn

Also yes.... you can account for SD, but its not like you are going to be like "ok ill bring my mon in and ... OMG ITS SD?! HOLY SHIT!"

Yes, that's what I said, these mons are still good outside of the Lokix matchup, but a part of why they are so good is that they actually can deal with lokix, which is often otherwise a struggle for HO. If multiple metagame innovations have occured to account for a mon, and it is still amazing, then I would say that is still good.

lokix is good.. but idt lokix is S tier worthy, adaptations to lokix and other threats have been made which have shown to make lokix less desirable to bring to a game...

Because that's the main set that I've used, which destroys all the counterplay you said to kix. The counterplay being different means that if you switch in okidogi expecting the pivot set on an offense team, and it reveals SD, you might be in trouble. Idk why this is a bad thing, this is just a good thing.

I have never seen lokix never be very telegraphed with its sets... SD on such a team will be quite easily tellable esp with rocks cutting into it, it lacking first impression, and also generally not having the team support compared to other mons who can clean late game while on HO breaking holes for other mons is smth nice

Isn't this part of the reason okidogi is being suspected rn lol? Like, this doesn't make sense to me as a reason to demote lokix.

Despite many adaptations being made to okidogi it is able to still smash through team, put in work with scarf, setup and win the game with BU.. this is just a mon that is broken and showing unhealthy lvl of being way to good in the meta despite that

Again, look at my two examples for RU. They both had low usage (though krook only for week 7) and yet if you asked RU players, they would say they are both A minimum, with most saying they are A+ rank. You need to determine whether its because of other factors why they aren't used, such as awkward to fit on comps or something else.

If lokix had low usage for a week or two... i would not really look at it, but this is multiple weeks in homefield tour .. and even before shifts it wasnt exactly smth popular.

Also Lokix is nowhere close to A rank lol. Even if you disagree with the S rank nomination, Lokix still has knock-turn and SD sets which again, have different counterplay but are individually great sets.

I disagree with the stay in A+... even if it has knock -> turn and SD sets... i feel it just kinda thuds into fat with those... while SD has not been proven to be smth that can overtake this.. and usually the best set is where the mon lands..

I feel its just been downwards trending ... maybe after dogi gets banned we see more kix but as of rn... I feel kix is undeserving of its A+ rank as of rn...

 

[Padstar34]

There is no free will unload all your viability ranking changes on the same day

A+ -> S-: starting of STRONG I am of the belief its harder than ever to avoid using cobalion, with everything roaming around Cobalions utility is CRUCIAL both in checking the best threats in the tier and supporting them with volt switch and thunder wave, of which both provide Cobalion with an incredible amount of ability to create progress. I'm noticing people have been saying tinkaton should rise but there are very few situations i'd rather have a tinkaton than a cobalion atm. Ive been using IronPress Rest Cobalion to GREAT success at the moment, very non-standard set that can very easily win you the game. Also the best knock off absorber in a tier riddled with the move.

A- -> A: this pokemon is VERY good at exploiting all the best checks to pokemon like weavile, hoopa, and okidogi, and a lot of its current checks, like clodsire, latios and rockpon are struggling, and heatran cannot afford to not run physdef atm. weavile checks it, but weavile checks half the tier. thundurus is a very strong pokemon in the current metagame that is finding it easier than ever to exploit holes in current teambuilding trends.

A- -> A: Shit's insane, best HO mon by far, and has potential to provide incredible value even outisde of HO. Knock CC and Aqua Step hit basically everything, this thing is always a threat.

B- -> B: This pokemon is the best spinblocker (not the best pokemon who can spinblock, but the best AT spinblocking) in the tier by virtue of it's resistance to earthquake, as well water and fighting moves that quaquaval may run if it attempts to spin (usually not to much success even when not facing sinistcha). also a solid check to okidogi. this pokemon to spinblock + the prevalent knock off users provide some absurd ability to progress at the moment.

C -> B-: Very real check to okidogi not running knock off that doesnt mind toxic chain, decent abuser of Heatran, and all around not easy to stop after a calm mind with a solid defensive tera, and not reliant on the boots that are so easy to knock off in the current metagame. watch out for lokix though.

 

[haunted paper]

B -> A- = Manaphy has of great ways to set up and it's kinda crazy how difficult it can be to knock it out. Water is a great typing right now and Manaphy has the coverage to hit anything that would stop it from sweeping or punching holes. It's also incredibly difficult to KO because not much can outspeed that do have the power to OHKO it and not much can either. This isn't even taken tera into consideration, which can help make it even better. Honestly, being to choose tail glow or acid armor + take heart allows some flexibility and unpredictability.

These are the sets I use:

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Armor
- Take Heart
- Surf
- Stored Power

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2244984934-azzsq4dthpervbojek8k4btz72elpjapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2235523970-81etsl2m0gn2i2vc5tol39pmkpwh2kdpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2244965154-b23b1qg8e9iae2ayjpjb9e7ddqtvcnkpw

 

[Catcus]

Real Quick I wanted add a few noms after the dogi ban

A- -> A
This mon flips flops from mid to busted every few months. No dogi means it lost a check and superpower is easier to use which weakens checks like cobal. Not much else to say. Mon's a lot better.

B -> B+
Zarude seems to be the big winner of the ban, but enam is possibly the 2nd biggest imo. Losing the best poison in the tier, zarude rising up who's STABs you resist, and more bulky teams for you to prey upon are all massive changes for it. It''s also still one of the best hydrapple counters and is a nice bulky dark resist against mons like hoopa. It genuinely feels a lot more consistent and it feels easier to fit as well.

B- -> B
I've actually quite liked this mon post dogi. Cornerpon dropping tantrum more for superpower makes you much more consistent as a check. It also just feels less awkward to build with as well. Tera Dark is a fun way to turn the tables on stuff like hoopa and polteageist. While it's drill match-up isn't the best, its bulky enough to not be one shot and can threaten big damage on it back. Being an attacker bulky enough to tank at least one hit from a ton of threats is also just a really nice trait rn.

B- -> B
More Terrain Strats have popped up which hawlucha obviously likes. One big thing however is zarude's rise in viability. Hawlucha outspeeds, resists and threatens zarude with both stabs while punishing set-up with encore. I've tried SD sets on standard Hazard HO and they have worked pretty well, punishing other mons like lokix and excadrill as well.

B -> C C -> UR
These mons were basically only for Okidogi. I think gligar has a couple nice traits so I'd hold off on UR-ing it so fast but palossand was barely usable even when dogi was here and definitely shouldn't be ranked when its banned.

Aside from that, I'd like say I think post dogi is actually decent, and I think C is no longer fair and it makes more sense to stay B-. I also heavily agree with rising to A. It enjoys no more dogi a lot as SD sets lose a major roadblock and Bulky sets are much better now that they don't compete with dogi and also aren't fodder for it. I also agree with pretty much all of my previous noms, though I think could possibly go even higher, though it maybe be a little fast.

 

[Monky25]

Hello UU, we’ve got another VR update right here for you! While the tier certainly still has a lot of room to develop with the pretty recent ban of Okidogi, we still felt there were a few changes that needed to be addressed such as the end of SCL for the most part as well as just more time since the last VR update to warrant this update, not to mention there’s a few immediate changes we felt should happen pretty soon rather than hold off on (RIP Gligar). Below are the rises and drops that happened with the reasoning for each change as well. We hope you enjoy this update!

Rises
from A- to A: Quaquaval has asserted itself as one of the scariest Pokemon to face off against with the nutty snowball potential it has. Its valuable defensive profile against Weavile, Heatran, and Greninja continue to boost its splashability, and it just preys on a lot of common offensive builds right now that don’t have the tools to really answer it to where A better showcases its threat level. We’ve also seen some Roost sets as well as Choice Scarf find usage, although we’ll have to see how well they do in the upcoming UUWC
from A- to A: Thundurus-T really enjoys the offensive metagame right now, taking advantage of how difficult it is to stop as a pivot to serve as a potent playmaker and progress making threat in a lot of offensive teams. Being a Volt immune as well as soft checking Excadrill does wonders for its viability, and with how tough it can be to defensively check, Thundurus is finally being the best it’s ever been this DLC
from A- to A: The monkey is on everyone’s mind right now as one of the biggest winners from the Okidogi ban, now possessing immense Tera flexibility that makes it more difficult to take down in addition to Bulk Up + Trailblaze taking UU by storm. What sets Zarude apart is the amazing defensive profile, being a very useful offensive check to Hoopa, Excadrill, and Thundurus-T while causing our main Water-types in Slowking, Rotom-Wash, and Greninja quite some trouble, ultimately establishing itself as an offensive powerhouse that provides some much needed defensive utility to the teams it finds itself on
from B+ to A-: Ogerpon is also a pretty big winner from the Okidogi ban, now having the freedom to explore other move options rather than be forced into a coverage move to hit Dogi. In particular, Grasspon has been really potent due to the rise of HO, as Embody Aspect lets it outrun and nail many boosting sweepers such as Quaquaval, Excadrill, and Polteageist or lock them into their setup move
from B+ to A-: Tinkaton is finally rising back up after trending downward for what feels for so long, being an extremely valuable check to so many of the dangerous Dark-types running around as well as some other foes like Latios, Cornerpon, and Polteageist. The shift to being fully physically defensive as well as running Foul Play for Excadrill both have boosted its viability and It’s done pretty well in SCL to where it breaks back into the A ranks
from B to B+: Enamorus also wins quite a bit from Okidogi’s ban, enjoying one less offensive check as well as a decline in Poison-types to resist its Moonblast. Its defensive profile has become so much more appreciated as of late, taking on many of our dangerous Dark-types such as Lokix, Zarude, and Hoopa as well as other foes like Hydrapple and the rising Slither Wing, thus breaking into the meta again and rising to B+
from B to B+: Manaphy proves that it’s not just a trend, rather a legitimate option in the metagame now on more offensive builds thanks to the nature of Tail Glow being a bulky trademon sweeper guaranteed to punch holes in teams. While 100/100/100 bulk isn’t amazing, some evs can fix that, and in general it’s serviceable enough on offensive builds as a useful answer to the likes of Greninja, Heatran, and Weavile
from B to B+: We all know why this rose but I just wanted to use this chance to say not a single member of the council actually believes this Mon is worth any form of tiering action. Hope this clears up some concerns
from B to B+: Very deadly threat that continues to surge through the VR as players wake up to how powerful it really is. HO is peaking right now and Revavroom is arguably also a staple like Polteageist due to the insane defensive value it offers with its typing + ludicrous sweeping potential, being difficult to take down after a Shift Gear
from B- to B: Players have caught onto the offensive potential that lies in Hawlucha with the rise of Zapdos, finding uses for it outside of Terrain onto other HO teams which are doing very well. The typing is also pretty useful against Zarude and a Ground-immunity is pretty cool as always
from B- to B: No Okidogi is very massive for Mandibuzz. Bulky teams, which Mandibuzz largely fits on, improve quite a bit, not to mention Mandibuzz itself no longer has to fear giving a very deadly threat free turns. It checks some very prominent threats such as Hoopa, Excadrill, Zarude, and messes with the dominant HO as a whole. Dropping Defog on Mandibuzz really opens it up; sure you have to pair it with Excadrill but it’s a great teammate so no big deal anyway
from B- to B: Salamence has just continued to catch on as a threat growing in potency as the tier develops, offering a very good defensive profile against a lot of foes such as Excadrill, Heatran, Lokix, Scizor, and Quaquaval, some of which being pretty tough to answer. Both Dragon Dance and Special Attacking sets are still potent and has a little bit of unpredictability to it as such
from B- to B: I legitimately cannot tell you why this rose in the Dark-typed ruled UU
from C to B-: Like other Fighting-types, Conkeldurr likes the ban of Okidogi as it now has less competition. Both BU and Flame Orb sets have seen a bit more usage, and while it’s still on the niche end, it has enough momentum to push it out of the C rank cluster
from C to B-: Like Salamence, Gapdos had a slower start despite being potentially potent with the rise of Zapdos, yet now catches on as the tier develops more and its niches become more relevant. Dogi leaving opened up the role of Scarf Fighting-type, and Gapdos fills that well thanks to its potent offensive combo and great Speed, notably differentiating itself from other Scarfers in its ability to revenge kill +1 Quaquaval and Excadrill. Honestly, I think with time it can go even higher
from UR to B-: Once held back by the dominance of Okidogi, Mienshao has some room as an alternative Fighting-type Scarfer that offers some differences over Gapdos. It can afford an Adamant nature and still take out +1 Excadrill, is neutral to Stealth Rock, and has the broken Regenerator. Both are in B- and we will see which one edges out the other as UUWC begins or if both will remain equally viable
from UR to B-: Slither Wing is UU’s newest rising star, finding already great success in SCL with both a Bulk Up Flame Charge set and a bulky pivot set that offers key revenge killing like Lokix but trades off offensive capabilities for a pretty damn good defensive profile, messing with threats Lokix wouldn’t want to take a hit from like Excadrill, Hoopa, Greninja, Hydrapple, and Grasspon. I can also see it continue to rise as it’s potency gets explored more
from UR to C: Offers some pretty cool role compression on offensive and VoltTurn teams thanks to Rocks + Knock + Momentum as well as a check to Heatran, Thundurus, Excadrill, and Revavroom
Drops
from B+ to B: While still decent, the ban of Okidogi means Pecharunt’s defensive profile is a lot less needed, and with the Dark-type infestation UU has in addition to Excadrill being the scariest it’s ever been, it’s safe to say Pecharunt no longer is a meta staple anymore
from B to B-: Initially, a lot of players thought Bellibolt would fill the void left by Zapdos, but that hasn’t shown to be the case with a complete lack of usage and performance over these last 2 months. Maybe in UUWC it’ll find success, but for now the rise was premature and it falls back down to B-
from B to C: Okidogi is gone we’re safe now
from B- to C: With Okidogi gone, there’s one less reason to use Hippowdon over Tyranitar, as even though Hippowdon wasn’t the best Dogi answer it was certainly better with Tyranitar, and as such with Hippowdon sand being nearly nonexistent, it falls down to C rank
from B- to C: Not too sure about the reasoning but many of the abusers like Polteageist and Hawlucha have begun to find themselves on teams that don’t require terrain, lessening the value of Indeedee and prompting a drop
from B- to C: Heatran check + water immune seems cool but my god is it difficult to build around. In general, Volcanion has barely gotten usage to where B- is too high even
from C to UR: I seriously cannot remember the last time this was used. Wish sets don’t even seem to be worth it with abusers like Ursaluna and Okidogi gone from the tier
from C to UR; You had a good run but nobody uses you
from C to UR: Okidogi cope we should’ve never ranked this to begin with
from C to UR: It’s tough being a Psychic-type + Dogi is banned

 

[dingbat]

--> A-

That mon is quickly becoming the oras uu slurpuff of sv and oh boy are people reeeeeeeally starting to hate it here

 

[Tree69420]

Nomming Barraskewda to C
skewda serves as a decent speed control option, outpacing adamant scarf hoopa and dogi modest scarf garde and adamant +1 mamo, and also all unboosted mons, ie gren weav torn.
Flip turn with rocks up can chip down non-regen water resists, and Crunch does good damage to slowking. It is one of the few pokemon who can outspeed and threaten torn with a lot of damage, with flip turn being solid damage too and pivoting. Aqua Jet can serve as revenge killing against weakened boosted threats, or you can go with CC or PsyFangs for more damage. Can force pokemon like Tran and Apple into catch-22s between teraing and not (Garde is a good partner for this IMO, checks latios and apple solidly)
distinguishes itself from scarf quav by having stronger initial power with non-liquid moves and not killing itself
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-809026 (ignore that skewda didnt do anything actually here, if didnt get goobed by custap hoopa then it wouldve cooked trust)

 

[Tidal]

Some very quick thoughts about how I feel about the tier. be warned i am very sleepy and these points are likely incoherent but i wanna at least give my tired thoughts on some pokemon, mainly some new high tiers I think deserve a spot in A+



Hydrapple is the goat. Weavile has shown to be not as monstrous as a threat as initially feared and certain trends such as Rotom-W and Quaquaval's surge and Excadrill's continued reign at the top have made Hydrapple very happy, with Specs continuing to be so devastating thanks to well it is able to naturally check a large range of the metagame, and sets like Nasty Plot help fully lean into its role as a defensive tank. It's kind of able to fit onto almost every kind of common archetype outside of HO and perform its roll well, which is at least an indicator of its viability. Also there's kind of just a chance that Fickle Beam will get to OHKO something or at least severly dent it if your name isn't Blissey or Heatran or you're immune to Dragon (limited to Tinkaton and Enamorus and Azumarill i guess). Definitely deserves a bump up to A+.

Also cool new replay that just happened live of Hydrapple claiming another victim's soul: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-810074



These three have a genuine shot of moving up to A+ based on how well they've been performing and just how strong they are in our metagame. Heatran is just as an amazing glue mon as Cobalion is with the option to also run highly effective offensive sets that pack the right amount of oomph. It's genuinely felt like the best Steel-type to use in the metagame besides Excadrill, who kind of is its own seperate thing. Being able to trap the likes of Slowking, Blissey, Clodsire (if you have your balloon in tact) and more while having so much offensive and defensive presence I think is noteworthy enough to be in A+, as long as it lands Magma Storm. Otherwise it can stay in A



Quaquaval doesn't really need to explain itself at this point, it's been taking off ever since Zapdos' departure from the tier, and it's only really seemed to get better and better to a point where some people think it has a questionable presence in the tier. While I don't fully agree with that notion, I think it's definitely one of our meta defining pieces to a point where I believe it should be alongside the other A+ Pokemon. Offensive sets such as SD, Scarf, and Roost +3 Attacks have been dominant presences while defensive and bulk-oriented sets capitalise on its strong defensive typing, utility in Spin and Knock, and reliable recovery that have helped even more unique team structures exist. Quaquaval is definitely. a brand new UU icon and should take its rightful place.

Some other short noms:


-> A
-> A-
-> B+
-> B

I'd like to hear how people feel about Sand right now too, specifically Tyranitar, as I'm having trouble deciding whether or not to bump it up to A or keep it at A-. Also excited to see how people feel about post-Hoopa and the changes in certain Pokemon's viability from it.

 

[Cheryl.]

-> B+/A-
This mon is very very real and very good in the current meta. You'll often see it on the Sand builds being spammed on ladder and in tour as it synergizes super well with TTar and Excadrill being able to pressure their checks nicely with strong Water and Fighting moves. It benefits from teams having to prep hard for the other Water/Fighting type, Quaquaval, as its best checks tend to not check Keldeo at all or be rather flimsy into it like Sinistcha versus Specs Keld. Vacuum Wave is also just a fantastic buff it got this gen that allows it to be prio user #2000 and pick off weakened teams nicely. It gives Keld a fantastic matchup into offense as a result as it can threaten weakened sweepers as well as being very impossible to check for most offense teams as they don't really have the room to pack a good resist a lot of the time. Sand + Specs Keldeo is prolly the best answer to most HOs at the moment and its being used a lot for that reason as well as just being a solid comp in general. CM sets are also pretty solid with Tera to provide better setup, although Specs is what pushes this mon up into the A ranks for me personally. Even if it only rises to B+, B rank is super underselling Keldeo's effectiveness into the current meta.

 

[ThatOneApple]

Doing some noms of my own now that UUWC Pools are (technically) over.

--> B/B+
Been seeing quite a bit of usage during the latter half of pools with both bulk up and flame orb sets to function as a sort of Ursaluna-lite. Both sets have seen their fair share of success, especially with how valuable its strong priority is. Even though it has some awkward matchups it can pretty consistently get value so its definitely better than B-.

--> A+
Just overall a great mon to have and I find it really tough to drop sometimes. Its set of resistances make it a great check to threats like Excadrill and Polteageist while having the speed to force out Thundurus-Therian and Sandy Shocks and being a threat in its own right. Zarude can also go for a sweep of its own if it opts to go with Trailblaze instead of Power Whip, and Knock Off gives it consistent value. Jungle Healing also makes it great for dealing with status from things it switches into like Rotom-Wash and Clodsire. This set of traits make it a great mon to have and worthy of A+ to me.

--> A
This might be a hot take, but i think Coba is past its prime. Its not bad or anything and its tools are still good, but it feel like its not as great as a slot as it once was. One of the larger issues with it is that the things its needed to check, such as lokix or weavile, aren't as common. It is a good answer to the Tyranitar that sand teams use to set sand, but that can twave Coba and make it unable to answer drill when sand isnt up. I also find that Coba teams are awkward into the dragons as Coba isnt a great steel to be answering dragons with. This is especially apparent with Hydrapple as that takes every hit Coba throws at it and regens it off while also being a pretty big threat. Again, this could just be me but I dont find Coba to be particularly great rn.

Other noms I agree with
-> A
-> A+
-> B+/A-
-> B

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Doing some noms of my own now that UUWC Pools are (technically) over.

--> B/B+
Been seeing quite a bit of usage during the latter half of pools with both bulk up and flame orb sets to function as a sort of Ursaluna-lite. Both sets have seen their fair share of success, especially with how valuable its strong priority is. Even though it has some awkward matchups it can pretty consistently get value so its definitely better than B-.

--> A+
Just overall a great mon to have and I find it really tough to drop sometimes. Its set of resistances make it a great check to threats like Excadrill and Polteageist while having the speed to force out Thundurus-Therian and Sandy Shocks and being a threat in its own right. Zarude can also go for a sweep of its own if it opts to go with Trailblaze instead of Power Whip, and Knock Off gives it consistent value. Jungle Healing also makes it great for dealing with status from things it switches into like Rotom-Wash and Clodsire. This set of traits make it a great mon to have and worthy of A+ to me.

--> A
This might be a hot take, but i think Coba is past its prime. Its not bad or anything and its tools are still good, but it feel like its not as great as a slot as it once was. One of the larger issues with it is that the things its needed to check, such as lokix or weavile, aren't as common. It is a good answer to the Tyranitar that sand teams use to set sand, but that can twave Coba and make it unable to answer drill when sand isnt up. I also find that Coba teams are awkward into the dragons as Coba isnt a great steel to be answering dragons with. This is especially apparent with Hydrapple as that takes every hit Coba throws at it and regens it off while also being a pretty big threat. Again, this could just be me but I dont find Coba to be particularly great rn.

Other noms I agree with
-> A
-> A+
-> B+/A-
-> B

i cant see shit

 

[Catcus]

I agree with every nom so far and I have a couple more to add.

A- -> A
If you've seen any recent tours, then this makes sense. Sand has had a super stellar performance in Tours recently and it's loved a lot of the reason meta developments. Sand Rush Drill is more valuable than ever rn thanks to Zapdos leaving making Drill on it's own the scariest it's ever been with iron head plus it's revenge killing is super strong versus HO. Ttar itself, while still limited to sand, has also liked the removal of a strong fighter in dogi and the emergence of threats like polteageist which it matches up well into.

A- -> A
Hoopa just got banned and Weavile hasn't been as scary recently which are both fantastic for Latios. Scarf remains a good option to revenge kill mons like quaq, but non scarf options like Soul Dew and Specs really appreciate hoopa leaving and have performed super well now. Losing our 2 best scarfers means it's speed is more appreciated and lets it get the jump versus plenty of threats.

B- ->B
I've been loving this guy recently. Pivot sets are kinda like lokix but you trade tinted lens for more bulk and more hazard resilience. It's defensive profile gives it a good match-up into a ton of mons like the grass types and with investment you can check mons like gren, drill, and lokix. It's First Impression, while not as versatile as kix, still threatens plenty of mons like latios, weavile and no-tera rockpon. It's got a ton of Utility options like Morning Sun, Stun Spore, and Will-o-Wisp. I'm a big fan of Stun Spore as it lets it punish Torn a ton. There's also Bulk-up + Flame Charge sets which are demonic on HO. You deal a ton with Booster Attack Flame Charges and set-up on a ton of mons while healing up with leech life.


I'm unsure of what to do specifically, but I think we should separate these two. Clodsire has performed much better than Gastrodon in my experience. They've always filled pretty similar roles and used to be more or less about the same in viability to me, but Clod's access to toxic and it's poison typing being much more of a rare commodity in a meta without Okidogi have made it much easier to include for me over Gastro. The fighting resistance gives some super nice match-ups into mons like cobal and improves match-ups into Thundy-T and Quaq compared to Gastro. Gastro does have it's strengths, but it doesn't feel as splashable as clod is since got a bit less bulk and it competes as a bulky water with usually better mons like Slowking and Washer. It still feels good to me, but I think clod has pulled ahead for the most part and that should be reflected, either through Rising Clodsire to A- or Dropping Gastrodon to B.

 

[udongirl]

B- ->B
I've been loving this guy recently. Pivot sets are kinda like lokix but you trade tinted lens for more bulk and more hazard resilience. It's defensive profile gives it a good match-up into a ton of mons like the grass types and with investment you can check mons like gren, drill, and lokix. It's First Impression, while not as versatile as kix, still threatens plenty of mons like latios, weavile and no-tera rockpon. It's got a ton of Utility options like Morning Sun, Stun Spore, and Will-o-Wisp. I'm a big fan of Stun Spore as it lets it punish Torn a ton. There's also Bulk-up + Flame Charge sets which are demonic on HO. You deal a ton with Booster Attack Flame Charges and set-up on a ton of mons while healing up with leech life.

I strongly agree with this. I personally rank higher. I've been actively playing ladder lately since I got my real work done, and currently fighting type moves are hard to deal with just because they have them. quaq is strong and keld is rising all because of the fighting type.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

-> B

This is an odd mon to be in B+, i always feel it perorming somewhat ok but its more so on the lvl of mandibuzz, mew lead, pex, h-arc, etc rather than enam-t, smash potlea, and seems to just generally get bullied by balloon exca, skarm, plume heatran, and just in general seems to only match up well into slowking as a burnt clodsire does negative dmg and as a spiker it is forced out by exca and bullied by zarude a lot

-> A-

- generally amazing speed control, with 2 potential scarfers leaving the tier, it leaves less competition and also being in a tier where coba is popular and exca and heatran dont wanna take focus blasts (or mystical fire since heatran runs flame body).

With things like healing wish, thunder wave, trick, it has a lot of potential utility late game especially against cheesy setup sweepers

-> B+

These are mons i feel are good and are much better than what their rank says

- has been popping up quite often on sand, and in general i feel a shift from slowking -> other things has made it much easier for keld to force progress, especially with more heatran, ttar, zarude, skarm this can be quite a good thing

- a bit of a reach but i feel its B+, its phys. bulk is quite good and muddy water allows it to threaten exca and toxic is quite good, toxic esp against stuff like slowking, hydrapple, mence, ttar, gastrodon, etc. Static is also a great bully against lokix, torn-t, zapdos-g, weavile, and a call out on spin exca can net you quite a good amount of progress with it.

- This mon feels like a great scarfer, skarmory is like the only thing that can take its dual stabs as well but its progress making and cleaning potential is very nice, being faster than +1 quaq, garde, +1 exca, modest latios, etc. It can take advantage of sinistcha, poltea, and pecharunt stat dropping moves to pretty much be a walking nuke

- this mon feels pretty darn good, it is a good bully against sand esp ttar, hydrapple, exca kinda being very good victims to it while torn-t, dirge, lokix, and keld dont wanna switch in at all and skarm is the only one who can. It is also good against just fatter teams or ones who rely on slowking or torn t to be a good wall and its status absorbing allows it to bully dirge quite well

-> C

These mons just fell off.

- Rhyperior fell off cuz its getting bullied right now, with more focus blast torn-t, skarmory stacking spikes up, rotom-w being used means its quite painful for rhyperior to do much especially with ogerpon also becoming more popular and specs hydrapple being a pain

- Metagross is just kinda skarmory food, as well as rotom-w, and kinda suffers from 4MSS, it wants heavy slam, fangs, knock, eq, bullet punch, and maybe something else but generally it is very easily farmed by teams right now, especially with exca, hydrapple, phys def coba, skarm, flame body tran, and bellibolt being used quite a bit, its getting bullied quite often

- Mamoswine is often times just worse weavile, while yes it can hit tinkaton, coba, scizor, with tera grass it can snipe quaq, rotom-w, and resist water and snowball, being harder to burn with heatran, static with bellibolt, and rack up helmet damage. Weavile is just way more reliable especially with its speed, knock, and just able to not be very reliant on its priority as much

-> C

I think its time to drop comfey, i feel comfey's time to shine has past and a lot of people have adapted counterplay to it, its no longer cheesing people much at all and people are quite ready to either a. force tera from its teammates and b. take advantage of the fact that its teammates likely dont want to burn tera. If they burn tera then comfey is a sitting duck, if they dont burn tera, then its likely you can easily weather the storm knowing that

-> A

I think lokix should drop, a lot of mons just dont favor it as much and with the recent ban of hoopa and dogi i feel offense only styles are less common and lokix may get bullied as well by new trends like keld popping up, quaq, phys def coba, pickpocket tinkaton, skarmory seeing a lot of use on sand teams, flame body heatran is a big one whose burns very much so ruin it, bellibolt static hurts a lot for it to

And vs HO, with the recent trends of bulky poltea, manaphy, revavroom, slither wing... you generally do not put in as much work as one would like. BU conk, slither wing, tera steel poltea also is smth that sets up all over it and just trends it dislikes. It is not a bad mon, but A+ tier feels out of reach

-> B

Slither wing has caught on traction and has started putting in a decent amount of work, i feel its worthy of a rise to B rank instead of sitting in B-. Compared to a few months ago when this VR was updated you see a good amount of BU proto slither wing usage. Pivot sets trade the power to chip resists a lot more for the bulk to sit on stuff like bulky exca, zarude, coba, ogerpon, scarf mienshao, etc

Chesnaught is a spiker that smacks the crap out of exca and ttar while forcing a tera out of zarude if it wants something to happen. It is a pretty good spiker esp with knock off where it can knock AV from torn-t, slowking, tinkaton, enamorus, etc

Agree with:

-> B
-> A
-> A

Disagree with:

-> A
-> A+
-> A+
-> A-

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Hey there! Small announcement to say that we're planning on updating the VR within the next few days as the tier has settled from the Hoopa ban and the recent shifts. Feel free to make new nominations as the previous ones are a few weeks old and the meta has shifted somewhat since then.

 

[dingbat]

--> A+: Better steel-type than cobalion
--> A: Worse steel-type than tinkaton
--> A: Bow down to the dancing duck
> : Tealpon is better
--> A+: Regen is broken, thunder wave is broken, and this fucker simply will not die
--> B+: Good pkmn
--> B: What in the flying fuck is a fezandipiti
--> B: The former terrorist of uu is decently good again
--> UUBL: I can guarantee you that deoxys will not save anyone from this dancing terrorist anytime soon

 

[ASKOV]

might edit later with reasonings for them

deo: new to a-/a
cobalion: a+ to a
hydrapple: a to a+
zarude: a to a+
latios: a- to a
tinkaton: a- to b+
clodsire: b+ to a-
keldeo: b to a-
mandibuzz: b to b+
mew: b to c
toxapex: b to b+
conkeldurr: b- to b
fezandipiti: b- to b+
mamoswine: b- to c
metagross: b- to b
slither wing: b- to b(+)
chansey: ur to c
empoleon: c to ur
gligar: c to ur
haxorus: c to ur
hippowdon: c to ur
jugulis: c to b-
gyarados: ur to c
ditto: ur to c

 

[haunted paper]

--> A+: Better steel-type than cobalion

Wanted to add onto this (if that's cool with ya dingbat). Always thought tinkaton was underrated due to how useful it is as utility user + defensive pivot. Solid defensive check to Tornadus-T that can take advantage of its' regen switch-out by setting up rocks; knocking items off incoming resists or defensive threats; or t-waving an incoming threat like Quaquaval or Keldeo trying to tank a knock or gigaton hammer, as well as, gaining hax opportunities against Slowking or Hydrapple. Solid dragon answer, great annoyance against ground types with air balloon, and great answer to offensive threats like Lokix and Weavile. The only downsides are gigaton hammer's side effect and lack of recovery.

 

[dingbat]

for the record i definitely reached a bit with my tink nomination because there is absolutely no way it goes to a+ but my point on it stands

 

[ThatOneApple]

Figured Id toss some more noms in here for fun

-> B-
I just dont think this mon is any good, it answers quaquaval which is nice but its such a dud into most other things. Its always felt very difficult to slot outside of stall to me and even when I've tried stall its felt like one of the more droppable options. Might be crazy for this but I'd honestly nom it lower if the quaquaval mu wasnt super important rn.

-> C
Grouping these two together because the reasoning is pretty much the same, they're kinda just offbeat HO options that arent particularly great at the moment. Azumarill also kinda faces some real stiff competition from Quaquaval and the occaisional Greninja, while also struggling with low speed and needing to use the rather weak Aqua Jet to make up for it. Comfey on the other hand struggles from needing to use tera blast as coverage making it a sink thats kinda tough to fit on teams. Despite how good HO is at the moment I dont think these two really take advantage of the meta very well.

-> B
Pretty nice alternative dragon to Latios due to dark stab and better coverage in Earth Power and Flamethrower/Fire Blast. These tools make it better at locking into moves because its harder to midground against it with stuff like Slowking or Tinkaton, especially since AV Torn has become less popular. Another fun option Ive messed with is Twave Plot, as you can draw in switch-ins like the aforementioned AV Torn and Tinkaton to either outspeed them or just use the para to paraflinch through with dark pulse. Hydreigon also has some neat defensive traits like checking Polteageist or Skeledirge (at least pre tera).

-> B-
Cool HO option, checks some stuff thats normally scary for HO like Zarude and opposing Polteageist while being threatening in its own right. Taunt lets it break through walls while work up can let it tear through some offense structures so it kinda comes down to what the team needs. Overall its just pretty neat right now.

-> C
Rain has been seeing some use recently during UUWC so i think these guys are maybe worth tossing on the VR. Might be a bit of a hot take though and I'm not super impressed by them, but i see the vision kinda and rain did get some wins.

-> UR
Just cleaning up some bad stuff that I think either barely does anything or is too specific.

Now for the new Drop!
-> B+
For the most part this just kinda takes mew's spot as a dual hazard HO lead, though a little bit better due to its speed. Could also see some use on psyterrain teams with plot and expanding force but we'll have to see.

(And by extension)
-> C
Deo-S is generally better and is also kind of a pain for Mew if they come face to face as HO leads. Does still have a role due to its far superior bulk and access to Wisp though.