Have not been vibing with most of the ban arguments....
> 29 mons have been banned, with a million more on the way
Many of these banned mons will not be quickdropped from what I've talked to, with each Pokemon that would reasonably add to the meta like Kingambit, Gholdengo, Zamazenta, Dragapult, Roaring Moon etc. instead being slowly introduced back into the tier via multiple lengthy suspect Test. Its debatable whether Tera is the mechanic that even broke half the Pokemon that have been banned. From the players I talked to, Z-moves are the primary reason that Pokemon like Walking Wake, Dragapult, Gouging Fire, Darkrai, Roaring Moon, etc. have been banned, other Pokemon like Sneasler & Annihilape were likely problematic regardless. From what I've played of Teraless, I'm unsure that Pokemon like Zamazenta are even healthy in a Teraless format, as it practicially autowins vs teams with fake fighting resist like Tapu Koko and even Lando-T, with even less options to counterplay it due to the lack of Tera Ghost on Pokemon like Ferrothorn / no Tera Fairy Garganacl, it practically becomes an MU fish on whether you run some more dedicated counters like Slowbro / Ghold / Pecharunt. In the immediate aftermath of a Tera Ban, I see Pokemon like Ogerpon-Wellspring being even more problematic for the average ND gamer, as teams have less flexibility in checking it via Dragon / Grass Teras & I see more suspect test of Pokemon like this to be prioritized over drops.
If quickdrops were to happen, I only see Kingambit, Gholdengo, Melmetal, Ogerpon-H, and Terapagos being eventually tested / quickdrops that the average gamer will benefit from (that's not MU fish cheese like Eleki / Espathra) that also will not be immediately axed. This imo are a good selection, but will they stay? That's difficult to decide, and I worry that the supposed promise of "more Pokemon" in Teraless metagame will be a false one if these Pokemon wind up being banned anyways.
> HO and Stall are the strongest archetypes in the tier, which is the sign of an unhealthy metagame
I haven't found this to be quite true either. From what I've played of HO thusfar, the standard 6 "Diancie / Crown / Kyurem / Iron Valiant / Moth / Dragonite" feels noticably weaker than the standard HO builds you would run in OU (where I also do not think that HO is the strongest style) and while this style is somewhat versatile in what you an run in each Pokemon, I feel that there are still a few few strong anti-HO mons that players haven't been exploring as much on most of the standard builds, whether it be Ting-Lu, Gargnacl, Dragonite, Raging bolt, Pecharunt, Moltres, etc, all of which are great picks on both balance and bulky offense that greatly assist with the HO MU, while having a lot of utility based on their own merits via priority, hazards, strong progress making capabilities etc. Other HO variants like Veils, and Webs IMO are not on the same calibur as the aforementioned style and have their own issues between struggling with Hazards, screens setters being exploitable, etc.
Stall itself is pretty strong in this tier (it was the style I used to achieve reqs after all), but given the way that standard stalls are structured, there are also a lot of issues it can have with standard styles & combinations, such as struggling with Rain, well-played Samurott-H, bootspam structures, Mola structures + breaker structures, etc. I don't find this style to be insurmountable either, or as dominant as many claim. In fact, I didn't see stall used at all in NDPL, so I'm not sure most of the tourney scene sees this playstyle as dominant either.
From what I've observed based on watching several NDPL replays, Bulky offense teams still reign supreme in this metagame, as having the combination of defensive stability + pressure tools against many threats in the tier. Taking a look at NDPL replays, there is a massive amount of Bulky offense usage.
These are just a few replays where bulky offense teams were not only used extensively, but thrived, largely over HO teams. Thus, I can't say in good faith that HO is "broken" or overcentralizing currently. Bulky Offense continues being the most versatile archetype, and I feel that is the case with or without Tera, due to many strong offensive tools working well with a decent defensive backbone. Bulky Offense teams being the best isn't a bad thing at all.
(I am aware some of these replays had Gouging Fire, but this Pokemon was largely used on Bulky Offensive teams in these replays rather than HO, despite being perceived as a "broken HO threat" so I think its inclusion is fair.)
> I have had so many games where I would've won that were stolen because of Tera
Weak reasoning imo. Tera is a resource that you should be considering at all points of the game, both in your favor and towards your detriment. A mechanic like Tera will naturally require more gameplanning around and greater considerations to be made from a moment to moment basis. For an opponent to have won the end-game with Tera, they had to conserve its usage till the end-game. I personally do not find this an "unhealthy" or "uninteractive" dynamic.
> Tera does not reward gameplanning
I find this to be a massive load of crap. Proper Tera usage is the name of the game in SV and arguably rewards gameplanning more than any other mechanic present. Defensive Tera usage, naturally requires most consideration of threats that the opponent's have in the back, additional coverage moves, oppurtunity cost, etc. Offensive Tera usage is similar. One must consider whether or not the threat they have in (i.e. Iron Crown) will be able to make use of Tera in the position their defensive attribute (like checking Lele) are no longer required. This is a mechanic that rewards gameplanning the most. Something as simple as a Barraskewda clicking Liqudation 6 times, for example, isn't a surefire path to victory vs many teams, because of the combined presence of both a defensive Water-type Terastalization and Water-resist can make its end-game more awkward.
Like IDK, I don't want to be selfish and vote DNB - I want to consider the perspectives of players that actually play the tier at a higher level than I do here + players who do not like Tera as a whole, but I'd also like some better reasoning from the ban side beyond the typical day 1 anti-tera arguments.
), a good chunk of the things we have banned abuse Tera to a significant extent, it is a clear factor for many of this format's bans. Suspecting Tera is a reasonable approach to stabilizing the format. No matter what side you are on its hard to really say that banning Tera will throw this format into pandemonium. Sure, it'll take a while to adapt, but the metagame will stabilize eventually.
