Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

AquiIo said:
Thank you batMAN for shedding light on this often overlooked broken. But before we suspect Dondozo, we should look at suspecting Blissey. Blissey infamously invalidates all forms of special attackers, which in itself is broken, as it is a complete cteam to many forms of HO. In addition, while Dondozo’s one flaw is that the various special attackers in the tier threaten it, Blissey can simply run Defense Curl and shrug off any type of attack. This mon is incredibly unhealthy and unfun to build around, and banning it would certainly boost enjoyment scores (which I know the council would love.)
Click to expand...
I second this, and I say we also ban Chansey. Chansey has even higher special defense and defense, and doesn't even have to use defense curl to reach absurd numbers like this.
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 246-289 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
In my opinion, banning Dondozo and Blissey are unhealthy. Both mons are balanced and key elements of stall teams. However, I do believe action must be taken, specifically suspecting Sticky Hold. Knock Off is by far the best way to make progress against stall teams, as otherwise switching is completely free for them due to Heavy-Duty Boots and they can easily prevent any progress you attempt to make. Sticky Hold stops this counterplay, preventing any progress from being made at all. With such excellent options such as Hydrapple, Muk, and Gastrodon, Sticky Hold users do not hurt the overall longevity of a team either. Please, join me in suspecting this unhealthy ability.
 
Heatranator said:
I second this, and I say we also ban Chansey. Chansey has even higher special defense and defense, and doesn't even have to use defense curl to reach absurd numbers like this.
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 246-289 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Click to expand...
While we're on this topic, I must say I'm shocked nobody ever talks about Registeel. He has 150 Defense and 150 SpD, and he can boost his Def with Iron Defense and his SpD with Amnesia!

This monstrous mon has ridiculous calcs even before boosting:
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 102-120 (28 - 32.9%) -- 84.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Registeel: 81-96 (22.2 - 26.3%) -- possible 5HKO

And he also has an ace in the hole: Ancient Power can give him an omniboost while attacking, that lets him hit for huge damage back while surviving hits even better! And Ancient Power's RNG is uncompetitive!
This guy should definitely be on the top of the banlist.
 
TheColorRed said:
In my opinion, banning Dondozo and Blissey are unhealthy. Both mons are balanced and key elements of stall teams. However, I do believe action must be taken, specifically suspecting Sticky Hold. Knock Off is by far the best way to make progress against stall teams, as otherwise switching is completely free for them due to Heavy-Duty Boots and they can easily prevent any progress you attempt to make. Sticky Hold stops this counterplay, preventing any progress from being made at all. With such excellent options such as Hydrapple, Muk, and Gastrodon, Sticky Hold users do not hurt the overall longevity of a team either. Please, join me in suspecting this unhealthy ability.
Click to expand...
I see my bait isn't believable enough
 
TheCosmicTruth said:
While we're on this topic, I must say I'm shocked nobody ever talks about Registeel. He has 150 Defense and 150 SpD, and he can boost his Def with Iron Defense and his SpD with Amnesia!

This monstrous mon has ridiculous calcs even before boosting:
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 102-120 (28 - 32.9%) -- 84.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Registeel: 81-96 (22.2 - 26.3%) -- possible 5HKO

And he also has an ace in the hole: Ancient Power can give him an omniboost while attacking, that lets him hit for huge damage back while surviving hits even better! And Ancient Power's RNG is uncompetitive!
This guy should definitely be on the top of the banlist.
Click to expand...
Remember that one time when you tera fightinged Registeel against a Choice Banded Raging Fury Max Atk Adamant Gouging Fire in Sun in your Fight Night game against Daddy Buzzwole and it almost got OHKOed?

Obv a shitmon, can't even avoid the 2HKO from that.
Heatranator said:
Bro, that's not my post...
And no need to bring up sore wounds
Click to expand...
Lmao saw someone glazing Registeel and assumed it was you.
 
Last edited:
TheColorRed said:
ok but real talk the only ubers that could drop are eleki and volcarona and this is only if tblast gets banned
Click to expand...

Honestly. We were on track for a potential tera blast ban anyways.

Gamble your reactions and spend it on the slop instead. My Christmas wish is that we don't reach 500k likes for palafin and instead revert to the best and most logical course of action- tera blast ban. We get leki, keep kyreum and likely get moth back. Possibly espartha- it's at least as likely as palafin at this time! Having lost sleep and tera blast its just a weak speed boosting stored power mon. Does require phasing which is annoying and i would really support banning stored power also.
 
Conflux123 said:
Remember that one time when you tera steeled Registeel against a Choice Banded Raging Fury Max Atk Adamant Gouging Fire in Sun in your Fight Night game against Daddy Buzzwole and it almost got OHKOed?

Obv a shitmon, can't even avoid the 2HKO from that.
Click to expand...
True, that was a disaster, I thought it was physically defensive but it was specially defensive. This is why we should unban Chi-Yu, so that no matter which Registeel you have, it can survive a fire-type nuke on its invested side and show off how busted it is
 
peepeepoopoo722 said:
Honestly. We were on track for a potential tera blast ban anyways.

Gamble your reactions and spend it on the slop instead. My Christmas wish is that we don't reach 500k likes for palafin and instead revert to the best and most logical course of action- tera blast ban. We get leki, keep kyreum and likely get moth back. Possibly espartha- it's at least as likely as palafin at this time! Having lost sleep and tera blast its just a weak speed boosting stored power mon. Does require phasing which is annoying and i would really support banning stored power also.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Tera Blast ban changes much:
- Obviously Regieleki comes back
- Volc can still use Giga Drain, although it loses Tera Blast Ground, Water, and that one set that ran Tera Blast Fairy to grief people. I think it might be fine, but this doesn't solve the issue of it having the potential to remove its weaknesses to set up for free. And since tera is hidden, you have to gamble on the tera type.
- Espathra ran Dazzling Gleam, Tera Blast ban means nothing to it.
- Same with Kyu, it only runs tera blast Fire/Ground on physical sets (as copium so that it can forget it doesn't get EQ, while Bax the superior Dragon/Ice type does). The special sets are still overtuned
- Palafin wouldn't care either.
- Ironically, the hardest hit might very well be Zacian-Hero (no more Fire Tera Blast), although it would still be way too busted for OU
- Serperior is dead, you killed it. Very sad

Also it would mean the guy I played yesterday who ran Tera Fairy Tera Blast Kingambit is out of luck, very sad.
 
TheCosmicTruth said:
I'm not sure Tera Blast ban changes much:
- Obviously Regieleki comes back
- Volc can still use Giga Drain, although it loses Tera Blast Ground, Water, and that one set that ran Tera Blast Fairy to grief people. I think it might be fine, but this doesn't solve the issue of it having the potential to remove its weaknesses to set up for free. And since tera is hidden, you have to gamble on the tera type.
- Espathra ran Dazzling Gleam, Tera Blast ban means nothing to it.
- Same with Kyu, it only runs tera blast Fire/Ground on physical sets (as copium so that it can forget it doesn't get EQ, while Bax the superior Dragon/Ice type does). The special sets are still overtuned
- Palafin wouldn't care either.
- Ironically, the hardest hit might very well be Zacian-Hero (no more Fire Tera Blast), although it would still be way too busted for OU
- Serperior is dead, you killed it. Very sad

Also it would mean the guy I played yesterday who ran Tera Fairy Tera Blast Kingambit is out of luck, very sad.
Click to expand...
Heatran would become a full counter for Volc. I realize volc isn't guaranteed but it removes a lot of the uncertainty. It will be a lot easier to play around.

Espartha also had hypnosis. I'm not going to bother with calculations against kingambit and similar- this is many steps past where I want us to be.

Subject kyurem is good but kyurems chief complaint is not knowing which of its sets you're up against. Neutering the physical will keep kyurem from getting even 59% again, certainly
 
peepeepoopoo722 said:
Espartha also had hypnosis. I'm not going to bother with calculations against kingambit and similar- this is many steps past where I want us to be.
Click to expand...
espathra didn't start running hypnosis until long after it was banned; that set made its debut in uubers. you could have made a much more convincing case if you'd mentioned that espathra was banned before shed tail (although that's not gonna sell me on the idea either)
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
espathra didn't start running hypnosis until long after it was banned; that set made its debut in uubers. you could have made a much more convincing case if you'd mentioned that espathra was banned before shed tail (although that's not gonna sell me on the idea either)
Click to expand...
I definitely got put to sleep by the zesty ostrich in early OU dont gas light me.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
espathra didn't start running hypnosis until long after it was banned; that set made its debut in uubers. you could have made a much more convincing case if you'd mentioned that espathra was banned before shed tail (although that's not gonna sell me on the idea either)
Click to expand...
^, the main Espathra set was:
1. Stored Power
2. Calm Mind
3. Dazzling Gleam
4. Protect or Substitute
Tera Fairy, and generally running something like 252 HP and 252 Def

Hypnosis was jank matchup fish, I never saw it a single time. I could imagine that people ran it, but it seems suboptimal because of how unreliable it is
 
TheColorRed said:
In my opinion, banning Dondozo and Blissey are unhealthy. Both mons are balanced and key elements of stall teams. However, I do believe action must be taken, specifically suspecting Sticky Hold. Knock Off is by far the best way to make progress against stall teams, as otherwise switching is completely free for them due to Heavy-Duty Boots and they can easily prevent any progress you attempt to make. Sticky Hold stops this counterplay, preventing any progress from being made at all. With such excellent options such as Hydrapple, Muk, and Gastrodon, Sticky Hold users do not hurt the overall longevity of a team either. Please, join me in suspecting this unhealthy ability.
Click to expand...
I agree, but I think that first we should take action on Garganacl, or at least Purifying Salt. Status is one of the main ways of crippling a defensive Pokemon. Purifying Salt just flat out eliminates a form of counterplay against Garganacl in addition to providing it with a free Ghost resist that it does not deserve. This doesn’t even mention Salt Cure which has no counterplay beyond recovery moves and is flat out built to directly counter the two most reliable checks to Garganacl.
 
Does anyone have a list of all mons that currently run Tera Blast on their primary sets? (Not like Tera Blast Kingambit or other cheese sets, but rather their main sets)
It doesn't seem like losing Tera Blast would be a huge loss to the vast majority of mons, at worst it removes some matchup fishing aspects

- Enam-Incarnate
- Serp
- Regieleki
- Zacian
- Volcarona
- Kyu physical sets
- rarely on Iron Moth and Raging Bolt
- Pult physical sets

Any more I missed?
 
Tbh I think a Palafin suspect is gonna happen regardless of the likeshop.

Imo if you want to be pragmatic, you should pool likes for something absolutely ludicrous like Solgaleo.
 
I was similarly going to point out that a Tera Blast suspect really seems like the only plausible non likeshop movement as it stands but Finch beat me to it. Kyu needs a few months and Glisc also JUST avoided the banhammer. Even if Blast isn't unanimously contentious, I'd be hard pressed to think it has less support than any other mon in the cross hairs, of which we have few? What? Wogre, BIG maybe on Bolt, and Gambit are really the only other things i could ever see action on before blast.
 
Moisture99 said:
Tbh I think a Palafin suspect is gonna happen regardless of the likeshop.

Imo if you want to be pragmatic, you should pool likes for something absolutely ludicrous like Solgaleo.
Click to expand...
Solgaleo would be unfun more than it is broken, it can't set up (outside of Iron Defense) and it can't OHKO you for free, but it's unkillable and can spam Knock Off, Roar, heal itself, etc. + Sunsteel Stike hurts bad even uninvested.
IMO, what we should be pooling for is Arceus-Bug, now THAT would be worth our time

PastaMechKaku said:
This state of this thread as a result of the likeshop reminds me of my elementary school days where the teacher would let everyone goof around during the last few days of school. Except goofing around in this context involves users trying to gaslight people into letting different flavors of god be playable in OU.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? God is already playable in OU, it's called Defense Curl Blissey :totodiLUL:

elementary school
Click to expand...
accurate representation of the bait thread knows as SV OU metagame discussion

SittinGamer said:
I was similarly going to point out that a Tera Blast suspect really seems like the only plausible non likeshop movement as it stands but Finch beat me to it. Kyu needs a few months and Glisc also JUST avoided the banhammer. Even if Blast isn't unanimously contentious, I'd be hard pressed to think it has less support than any other mon in the cross hairs, of which we have few? What? Wogre, BIG maybe on Bolt, and Gambit are really the only other things i could ever see action on before blast.
Click to expand...
I've heard some people want to ban Zama and Rai as well, although Rai seems fine. Getting flinched and dying is bullshit, but what else is new. What are you going to do about it, brim with joy distilled from detachment?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top