Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[Alternator]

one day we'll have an OU discussion thread that is actually about the current metagame and not aggressive mudslinging about potential tiering and doom posting.

Embrace the should-be-a-shitmon life and embrace Maushold.

Maushold is a family, a loving family. Maushold is love. Maushold is (family) life.

Ogerpon-Wellspring giving you problems? Population Bomb kills from full with eight hits, so you have a reliable revenge killer.

Last-mon Kingambit destroying your team with Sucker Punch? Maushold says hello, my name is Encore, prepare to die.

Deathly vulnerable to Sticky Web leads? A Maushold lead beats both setters, and Maushold is uncommon enough that they probably don't have a specific contingency plan, so you're likely to chunk something hard.

Really loath Gholdengo? Tidy Up isn't blocked by Good as Gold, and Tera Dark sets win if Gholdengo switches in to try and set up, since +1 Tera Dark Bite OHKOs offensive Ghold and can trade itself for the defensive set.

Kyurem? You can revenge anything except the DD set, and can 1v1 SubTect (though only once if you get predicted and switch into an attack).

It still has all the problems of needing help getting in safely, but playing it as an offensive mon, rather than an exotic hazard clear option, is fun. Population Bomb is just a gross move, and the fast Encore is great utility.

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

His post about his joke vote could have been an attention seeking joke also. Its possible he meant it when he voted dnb but knew the reaction he'd get by the post. I'd say the cheaters are what really caused the dnb.

I just think it's cringe to have given the attention over the post.

I still play showdown a bit daily but I'm mostly bored and playing fortnite instead.

If we dont do this palafin thing I pledge $300 towards a no tera blast +eleki +volc tournament if anyone can make that happen? If anyone is interested in adding?

I won't win but if we could run that prior or alongside a tera blast suspect I think it would generate hype and sufficient conversation over our direction from here on out? I'm aware that an initial tera blast suspect won't include volc and maybe not even eleki but would just love to see the ball get rolling? And I think we could make months of progress with such a plan. Or if it's ultimately rejected ill be satisfied it was tried.

Thanks for your consideration

 

[Insolence]

Gen 9 feels like it's at this weird flux point currently where all styles are viable but it's extremely difficult to fully cover the full breadth of threats in the tier (not only offensive ones - this gen added some of the most powerful defensive threats yet - Lu, Garg, Dozo, flip turn Alo). It's incredibly difficult to construct teams that cover all these bases - factor in tera and you're just always going to end up making concessions of some kind in the builder. Tradeoffs are a natural part of any healthy metagame, but the degree to which they're currently a factor feels even reminiscent of an Ubers metagame, minus the centralization. With just six slots, there just isn't room for enough role compression and it feels very frustrating to load up vs. a team that you know you just have no shot of beating if played well.

We can't really tackle the current state of the metagame via this method of single bans - removing anything is just going to lead to even more centralization, and without the presence of certain options, the things they hold back will be completely uncontained. Banning Gliscor, for example, not only kills stall as an archetype, but greatly improves the matchup spread of those boots spam teams. This is why recent suspects ended in a DNB verdict - even if it *might* improve the meta in the long term, there's no point in making the meta worse for a few months just so that we could potentially see improvement in the future.

The way I see it, there's two ways we can go from here. The first (which would be incredibly funny) would be some kind of mass Kokoloko, the second is retesting Ubers, probably after banning something like Tera Blast (Stored Power is never going to happen, but we can dream). Since there's no chance of the first path this late into the metagame, we're basically forced down the second. There's always the chance that the drops become even more centralizing and overpowered, but I'd rather take the risk than remain in the limbo we're currently in.

 

[Achohermano]

Talking about speed tiers, I think this is the gen Choice Scarf has felt the WORST. Like, aside from, Gholdengo, Meowscarada and Rotom Wash, no one uses it, and well Darkrai sometimes. But even in those 4 mons is niche.

I know that boots or BE contribute to that, but man I think you could actually cook some cool scarfers if you look beneath the surface.

Do you folks think there are more scarfers to explore?

Maybe Protean Gren could be cool? It has low kick for Moon/Gambit, Gunk for non contact on birds with solid poison chance and to hit Clef, Val and Waterpon… I think it gets Grass Knot for Dondozo?

 

[Finchinator]

Have you or the council discussed creating a thread that’s exclusively for game play discussion/improving play? The OU thread used to have some of that, but now it’s just the same people arguing. This gen has a very high skill floor and the community just seems to be people complaining or top players calling anyone worse than them shit.

The SQSA exists for people who have questions about how to approach games, play or build better, and up their understanding or game. People can also reach out to me via PM anytime — I spend a few hours every week just going over teams or replays with people who want help.

 

[SittinGamer]

Any conversation about the tier comes back to ban/unban because no one wants to discuss what the best spinner is when the majority feel like the meta itself needs to be spun.

Next Pokemon Cypher gonna go insane with this one.

I sympathize with the sentiment though because, yeah, while BE isn't broken as an item, but it does kind of suck that a more phasing/priority focused style will be necessitated in gens which feature Paradox Mons unless they find a way to make IVal and RMoon shitmons, and we have a lot more to do on our plate if those two ever become frauds

 

[June Heat]

in an attempt to keep this dumpster fire going; why would a BE ban be bad for the game? Seriously, what do we really lose? How can we have a “ban TB movement” when the move isn’t broken on even a majority of OU viable Pokemon, but when BE is brought up it’s shut down because not enough Pokemon are broken with it?

Tbf, it seems the CTC school of thought is winning with a Palafin suspect looming over us. Perhaps it’s time to just accept the power creep for what it is, and decrease the ban list as much as possible.

 

[EpicGuy321]

If Palafin is unbanned you can just Jet Punch the BE guys to rk, easy peasy lemon squeezy

We got 3 new excellent priority guys this gen, anti-speed control isn’t too hard to pack (Kingambit, Bolt, NormalNite)

I do hate how the insane speed tiers this gen make it hard to use scarfers these days, though. Booster Val outspeeds a lot of scarfers you might want to use (idk an example but you probably have experienced this). Same with +1 Moon. +1 Moon outspeeds EVERYTHING except scarf Meow and Darkrai. With pretty much any other DD guy, all you’d need is a scarf base 100ish guy.

 

[Anchor9]

Well, I think I’ve developed Ampharos in Rain about as much as I can. Ampharos is sadly a tad too slow and nobody is switching Tusk into it anymore and all the Gliscors are running Protect for some reason and scouting the Specs. It still always snipes Raging Bolt with Tera Fairy though lol and that will never not be funny. Anyways, I’ve decided it’s time to move on for now (until Palafin gets unbanned anyway. That’ll be fun) and develop Ampharos in other ways. Right now I’m testing Meteor Beam Agility. Here’s the team:

https://pokepast.es/07ddf90b949d0ac6

Thoughts?

Edit:

Will add replays with progress to post:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2266317648

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2266321394-f6kjrqt4yaomakutuwakb0qwsh3e5vmpw

 

[June Heat]

Well, I think I’ve developed Ampharos in Rain about as much as I can. Ampharos is sadly a tad too slow and nobody is switching Tusk into it anymore and all the Gliscors are running Protect for some reason and scouting the Specs. It still always snipes Raging Bolt with Tera Fairy though lol and that will never not be funny. Anyways, I’ve decided it’s time to move on for now (until Palafin gets unbanned anyway. That’ll be fun) and develop Ampharos in other ways. Right now I’m testing Meteor Beam Agility. Here’s the team:

https://pokepast.es/07ddf90b949d0ac6

Thoughts?

You sir, are a true legend. Go get’em champ!

 

[AerionT]

in an attempt to keep this dumpster fire going; why would a BE ban be bad for the game? Seriously, what do we really lose? How can we have a “ban TB movement” when the move isn’t broken on even a majority of OU viable Pokemon, but when BE is brought up it’s shut down because not enough Pokemon are broken with it?

Tbf, it seems the CTC school of thought is winning with a Palafin suspect looming over us. Perhaps it’s time to just accept the power creep for what it is, and decrease the ban list as much as possible.

I echo this. Booster energy is at least as game warping as Tera Blast, which is only abused by Kyurem, Moth and somewhat Kingambit in OU

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

in an attempt to keep this dumpster fire going; why would a BE ban be bad for the game? Seriously, what do we really lose? How can we have a “ban TB movement” when the move isn’t broken on even a majority of OU viable Pokemon, but when BE is brought up it’s shut down because not enough Pokemon are broken with it?

Tbf, it seems the CTC school of thought is winning with a Palafin suspect looming over us. Perhaps it’s time to just accept the power creep for what it is, and decrease the ban list as much as possible.

My understanding is the only argument against it is based on how tiering has -typically-, though not strictly, been done- that we should always ban a problematic pokemon unless the factor breaks multiple, apparently requiring it to be the only factor for several, pokemon.

Yes the argument for booster is similar to tera blast. We can do the math on how many each were a factor or strictly broke, sure.. but the argument has been well made and I won't repeat now, on how Tera blast is unhealthy and a contributor to a problem with this generation.

It's reasonable to see how an argument can be made for booster energy. It's a different argument about unhealthiness and maybe not a worthy argument but it's not something to completely discard. It would obviously turn the temperature down offensively. But the main OU paradoxes would still see use, and likely still be affective. But scarfers would become viable and defense could breath a bit easier.

I'm personally not extremely interested in us looking at booster energy soon but I do advocate for us to be open minded to shaping OU using such techniques.

I understand that signature moves may be the most complex CTC thought train proposal and maybe we draw a line against that for this generation(well get more next release.....)- but if we can have a potentially better game with a few slightly creative bans rather than only to subtract pokemon I think it should be explored.

Respectfully

 

[pika pal]

I'm still failing to see how Booster Energy warrants discussion when the only mon currently here that is potentially-broken with it but not without it is Roaring Moon: Valiant it's one of several sets in its toolbox while not being very overwhelming individually, and Bolt is a clear combination of other traits like its bulk and Thunderclap before the 1-time boost.

Like, Tera Blast can at least be argued as a breaking factor on multiple mons, Primary or Partially, to warrant looking at it instead of BE vs Roaring Moon itself. Removing BE just to enable other roles like Scarfers and better defensive survival when it's not BREAKING a large number of mons feels like getting rid of Hamurott or Gholdengo because Hazard control is limited to the Paradox Dons and thus to reduce Spike problems (I sympathize but this isn't in tiering policy). At some point it might just be that those elements not being strong this gen is the state of the hand we're dealt more than a problem requiring correction.

I'm all for considering stuff like Signature Move/Ability/more lenient Move criteria next gen, but with the policy we've run things with throughout Gen 9, we need to stay consistent for this OU's run

 

[Rekka's Backend]

Right now I’m testing Meteor Beam Agility.

Hey I just played your team! It seemed very fun, I think it has a lot of promise and I like the look of it. I hope you can refine it further!

 

[peepeepoopoo722]

.

Like, Tera Blast can at least be argued as a breaking factor on multiple mons, Primary or Partially, to warrant looking at it instead of BE vs Roaring Moon itself. Removing BE just to enable other roles like Scarfers and better defensive survival when it's not BREAKING a large number of mons feels like getting rid of Hamurott or Gholdengo because Hazard control is limited to the Paradox Dons and thus to reduce Spike problems (I sympathize but this isn't in tiering policy). At some point it might just be that those elements not being strong this gen is the state of the hand we're dealt more than a problem requiring correction.

It is perhaps against the current generations tiering history. Arguably not without precedent though. Besides the banned and current users of Tera blast I'd say the biggest reason to ban it is because of its "unhealthy" factor promoting matchup fishing which is bad enough without tera blast.

Their argument is that booster energy is similarly unhealthy. Its not my argument and I actually don't care. But it's not a no substance argument.

Smogon has banned things for being unhealthy.

I support others continuing the conversation but I am done. The support for booster energy ban is DEFINITELY not there currently and Tera Blast in my perception is. I know some disagree, well await a survey. I think Tera Blast ban has a better benefit on the game than a booster energy ban, or a palfin unban, a kyurem ban or any other step we could take next would! So I'm going to stay focused and not continue the BE discussion myself but I do think completely shutting it down is wrong.

 

[Cyber-DJ]

How does one build a balance team with Weezing-Galar in mind? It has a lot of cool traits I want to see, but i'm not really going anywhere with it. It feels like no matter what i'm always using it wrong. What does it even like to be paired with? I read the Analysis, but I get the feeling i'm not getting the full story.


I rocked this as a starting point for reference. Either i'm playing like crap, or this team is flawed as hell. Any help is appreciated
https://pokepast.es/1ad1bcd8b489769f

 

[JackRG]

Talking about speed tiers, I think this is the gen Choice Scarf has felt the WORST. Like, aside from, Gholdengo, Meowscarada and Rotom Wash, no one uses it, and well Darkrai sometimes. But even in those 4 mons is niche.

I know that boots or BE contribute to that, but man I think you could actually cook some cool scarfers if you look beneath the surface.

Do you folks think there are more scarfers to explore?

Maybe Protean Gren could be cool? It has low kick for Moon/Gambit, Gunk for non contact on birds with solid poison chance and to hit Clef, Val and Waterpon… I think it gets Grass Knot for Dondozo?

the issue with scarfers is tera boost sweepers can exploit them incredibly easy, and when a large reason you have a scarfer is for boost sweepers it can just end up feeling like a waste more than anything

Tbf, it seems the CTC school of thought is winning with a Palafin suspect looming over us. Perhaps it’s time to just accept the power creep for what it is, and decrease the ban list as much as possible.

A test hasn't even been confirmed and even if it does I doubt 60% of voters would want to undo months of tiering

 

[Ehmcee]

The arguments for banning TB and Booster Energy are in my opinion, leagues apart.

The vocal train on Tera Blast is how the move is potentially uncompetitive, in how the randomness and unpredictability of the move makes it an aspect of the meta that doesn't promote competitive play. It also has demonstrably been the primary factor in breaking multiple mons such as Volcarona, Regieleki and Espathra.

Neither of these arguments can be applied for Booster Energy, a simple one time stat boost is not uncompetitive, and it has only singularly arguably broken Gouging Fire.

If you are dissapointed at a few users of Booster Energy, there is absolutely 0 reason to punish the rest of them as long as there is no solid base for the ban of the common factor.

 

[Alternator]

in an attempt to keep this dumpster fire going; why would a BE ban be bad for the game? Seriously, what do we really lose? How can we have a “ban TB movement” when the move isn’t broken on even a majority of OU viable Pokemon, but when BE is brought up it’s shut down because not enough Pokemon are broken with it?

Tbf, it seems the CTC school of thought is winning with a Palafin suspect looming over us. Perhaps it’s time to just accept the power creep for what it is, and decrease the ban list as much as possible.

A Tera Blast ban isn't justified by "Look, it breaks a bunch of mons!" It's justified on "It makes the tier so much less predictable that it degrades competitiveness," grounds, with an undercurrent of "Plus it nerfs Kyurem a fair bit, and we hates Kyurem, yes we do precioussss."

Banning Tera Blast drops Regieleki, starts a serious conversation about dropping Volcarona, and starts a less serious conversation about dropping Espathra - Tera Fairy Moonblast still destroys Dark types, but gets walled by any kind of Steel with a decent physical attack or a phasing move.

A very large part is that it makes things more predictable. Tera Blast Fairy/Flying gives Kingambit a much better out versus Great Tusk, for example, and while it's not a standard move, it is something you have to be wary of. Tera Blast gives DD Kyurem important coverage, and without it, the physical sets go from "potentially game ending" to "painful" when given a free turn because you switched in a specially defensive check. Tera Blast gives DD Dragapult that dangerous Ghost STAB that makes it a much more formidable sweeper, and again, very dangerous to give a free turn.

It's comparable to Hidden Power in this extra coverage, but the power is so much greater - 120 BP after STAB versus 60/70 for Hidden Power. In the Fairy gens, it's literally twice as powerful; where Hidden Power was usually only run to hit either a hard wall or a 4x weakness, Tera Blast is strong enough to be viable neutral STAB. Not a great STAB, it's still only 80 BP and lacks a secondary effect, but that's Shadow Ball or Crunch power.

The other part is that while Tera Blast drops at least one mon down into OU, nothing drops if Booster Energy is banned. Flutter Mane isn't any less min-maxed and its STAB combination isn't any less fantastic, and Iron Bundle didn't even use the item to begin with. Tera Blast is "we trade this move for these mons," while Booster Energy is "we trade this move for making a couple of sweepers less dangerous."

 

[June Heat]

The arguments for banning TB and Booster Energy are in my opinion, leagues apart.

The vocal train on Tera Blast is how the move is potentially uncompetitive, in how the randomness and unpredictability of the move makes it an aspect of the meta that doesn't promote competitive play. It also has demonstrably been the primary factor in breaking multiple mons such as Volcarona, Regieleki and Espathra.

Neither of these arguments can be applied for Booster Energy, a simple one time stat boost is not uncompetitive, and it has only singularly arguably broken Gouging Fire.

If you are dissapointed at a few users of Booster Energy, there is absolutely 0 reason to punish the rest of them as long as there is no solid base for the ban of the common factor.

A Tera Blast ban isn't justified by "Look, it breaks a bunch of mons!" It's justified on "It makes the tier so much less predictable that it degrades competitiveness," grounds, with an undercurrent of "Plus it nerfs Kyurem a fair bit, and we hates Kyurem, yes we do precioussss."

Banning Tera Blast drops Regieleki, starts a serious conversation about dropping Volcarona, and starts a less serious conversation about dropping Espathra - Tera Fairy Moonblast still destroys Dark types, but gets walled by any kind of Steel with a decent physical attack or a phasing move.

A very large part is that it makes things more predictable. Tera Blast Fairy/Flying gives Kingambit a much better out versus Great Tusk, for example, and while it's not a standard move, it is something you have to be wary of. Tera Blast gives DD Kyurem important coverage, and without it, the physical sets go from "potentially game ending" to "painful" when given a free turn because you switched in a specially defensive check. Tera Blast gives DD Dragapult that dangerous Ghost STAB that makes it a much more formidable sweeper, and again, very dangerous to give a free turn.

It's comparable to Hidden Power in this extra coverage, but the power is so much greater - 120 BP after STAB versus 60/70 for Hidden Power. In the Fairy gens, it's literally twice as powerful; where Hidden Power was usually only run to hit either a hard wall or a 4x weakness, Tera Blast is strong enough to be viable neutral STAB. Not a great STAB, it's still only 80 BP and lacks a secondary effect, but that's Shadow Ball or Crunch power.

The other part is that while Tera Blast drops at least one mon down into OU, nothing drops if Booster Energy is banned. Flutter Mane isn't any less min-maxed and its STAB combination isn't any less fantastic, and Iron Bundle didn't even use the item to begin with. Tera Blast is "we trade this move for these mons," while Booster Energy is "we trade this move for making a couple of sweepers less dangerous."

You know what, Fair Enough! I don't necessarily agree, but it's at least a decent distinction and argument rather than the usual "just is." I'll drop it because BE is nowhere even remotely close to the radar, but I do think these types of discussion are worth it. Thank You for putting up with me.

 

[UltraSword]

Valiant it's one of several sets in its toolbox while not being very overwhelming individually

I do not think Valiant is broken with booster energy but while it isn't slow by any means the speed boost from quark drive is pretty much why it is ou. Once you take away booster energy all you have left is a frail relatively slow pokemon that is outsped by most pokemon with a scarf or a speed boosting move after just one use of said move. In fact quite a few viable pokemon not only outspeed ival outright but also have the means to easily kill it such as darkrai meowscarada roaring moon (yes I know it is 4 times weak to fairy but acrobatics laughs in the face of this) weavile and deoxys speed (I find it funny how 4 out of 5 mons mentioned are dark types). Iron valiant would probably face a similar problem to meowscarada where if it uses hdb or leftovers it sacrifices speed and power and if it uses choice items it has to choose between the 2 and locks itself into one move. In fact it would be worse than meowscarada because at least meowscarada is slightly faster and has way better tools for momentum. To sum it up iron valiant would probably not be ou without booster energy.

 

[RainebowValiant]

Yeah dude again, Kyurem is obviously 100% my fault. For sure. Nothing else mattered besides my one vote.
-
I'll try one last time man, and idk why but here we go. Can you imagine the game without Will-o-Wisp? That would change a lot, right? Wisp isn't broken nor unhealthy, but just literally imagine all the turns and interactions not having that one move would change. It would change things. So most mons with a respectable speed stat outspeeds the meta when they get +1. Usually, only a choice scarf mon with a faster speed stat can outspeed, and when they do revenge kill they are now locked in to that move, which can create a new interaction the next turn. Val is able to circumvent this interaction by RK and also not being choice locked. Now simply imagine, just like you did earlier with Wisp, that wasn't the case. It would change things. That's it. I was simply asking, "What things could we possibly change to possibly improve the meta?"

That's cool you feel it's unnecessary, in a tier you describe yourself as "ruined" and "on fire", but I just simply disagree with you. I was brainstorming, sometimes that leads to things that don't make sense or aren't great ideas but could also be a launch pad to finding something that is good and does make sense. You don't want anything to change, and I do. We can only ban/unban. That's it. Those are the tools we have to cultivate a fun game. There is nothing to unban, so where does that leave us? We have a pretty subpar meta compared to other gens, forgive me for even thinking out loud about using the only tool we have to try and resolve the problem, even slightly.

I think there are some common denominators in regards to threads devolving but don't care to get into that now. People generally don't enjoy SV that much. It has a bad reputation. Many of my OU friends have stopped playing. Players want change. Any conversation about the tier comes back to ban/unban because no one wants to discuss what the best spinner is when the majority feel like the meta itself needs to be spun.

this is true

the amount of ban/unban talk drowns out all other noise in the community

i think we should wait for a tiering survey to make cut and dry opinions on this though

so we know what people actually feel about OU

 

[JackRG]

Yeah dude again, Kyurem is obviously 100% my fault. For sure. Nothing else mattered besides my one vote.

alright why is everyone still blaming losetoru for the kyurem test. Theres no reason to dog on him in particular when realistically everyone who voted dnb is equally at fault. If you want to blame someone for the result of the kyurem test, blame the fear mongers

 

[Bold School]

I'm still failing to see how Booster Energy warrants discussion when the only mon currently here that is potentially-broken with it but not without it is Roaring Moon: Valiant it's one of several sets in its toolbox while not being very overwhelming individually, and Bolt is a clear combination of other traits like its bulk and Thunderclap before the 1-time boost.

Like, Tera Blast can at least be argued as a breaking factor on multiple mons, Primary or Partially, to warrant looking at it instead of BE vs Roaring Moon itself. Removing BE just to enable other roles like Scarfers and better defensive survival when it's not BREAKING a large number of mons feels like getting rid of Hamurott or Gholdengo because Hazard control is limited to the Paradox Dons and thus to reduce Spike problems (I sympathize but this isn't in tiering policy). At some point it might just be that those elements not being strong this gen is the state of the hand we're dealt more than a problem requiring correction.

I'm all for considering stuff like Signature Move/Ability/more lenient Move criteria next gen, but with the policy we've run things with throughout Gen 9, we need to stay consistent for this OU's run

First of all, the warped speed tiers impact the entire metagame. Not just individual mons. You can find that problematic or not, but there is at least an argument to be made that it goes beyond the individual mons.

I also don't see the just one mon narrative when banned Paradox mons like Gouging Fire have been broken by BE. For the sake of discussion, let's be generous and say that only Gouging Fire formerly and currently Roaring Moon were problematic because of BE specifically. So what? That's still multiple mons. Sleep only broke Darkrai and Valiant, but we entirely did away with it for being inherently problematic. There wasn't even a vote. The mods made this decision on an in game mechanic. Yes, there are some differences between these scenarios. The point is that game mechanics are different from mons because they tend to have more nuanced consequences.

Alternatively, we could look at Roaring Moon. We could say this is the only problematic BE mon left and suspect it. But there doesn't seem to be support for that, either. In fact, the most support I tend to see for Roaring Moon being broken tends to come in posts that don't think we should look at BE. Outside of this, there is the occasional rant from people like myself. Not much actually seems to happen, though. Punish the few abusers, not the mechanic. This only works if you actually do that.

Neither of these arguments can be applied for Booster Energy, a simple one time stat boost is not uncompetitive, and it has only singularly arguably broken Gouging Fire.

No. It's more than that. Speed is the single most important stat. The ability to boost speed in general is fairly rare. With an item outside of Choice Scarf, it was mostly relegated to niche items that needed to be procced by specific conditions like Salac Berry or Blunder Policy. Booster Energy has no conditions preventing a proc besides hitting the field. It is immediate. Nearly every other way to boost speed in singles requires at least a turn of investment. Not BE. This is way different than boosting a stat with a setup move or even a Speed Boost mon that needs a turn to proc the ability.

The attack or special attack boost is also different from just a +1 stat. It is a 1.3 boost that isn't ignored by Unaware mons. It's more like a Life orb without the chip. In both cases, which is functionally different. The various bonus multipliers do combo when stacked, though, making a BE boost at +1 roughly like a +2 anyways.

u said acrobatics roaring moon. how exactly is it losing its item without BE?

I don't want to speak for them, but I have successfully run Grassy Seed and Kee Berry sets on Roaring Moon. It helps avoid getting RK'd by some priority. Strictly speaking, Grassy Seed was much better. Kee Berry often required taking chip and a Tera to proc.

 

[Magcargo]

Personally I'd like to thank LosetoRU. They saw the objectively best choice and made the correct vote in paving the way for a better future. They voted not for themselves, but the metagame at large, which is very admirable in these trying times where users are focused on their own self-interest in the metagame. I have no doubt LosetoRU will be a valuable ally in saving Kyurem again should a third suspect come (which it never will).

The real evil during this suspect were the cheaters and fraudsters that destroyed our democratic process & tainted the vote due to their greed & hubris. LoseToRU should not bear the burdens of their sins