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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
this is such as a stupid fucking debate, and the OU discussion thread is full of stupid fucking people.
who cares about whether you can vote "erm... no" on the ballot box
who cares
it's such a basic debate that shouldn't have any arguments. it's a "ehhhh ig no" or "ehhhh i think it should stay" and you accept the other person's arguments because deep down, this argument has the same weight as asking someone i they prefer cinnamon or butterscotch pie. it doesn't fucking matter.
the fact that the discussion thread is getting this heated over what is essentially nothing is so fucking stupid and every single person should be deeply ashamed of themselves for getting into this. seriously, it's not that hard to just go "fuckin whatever" if you aren't personally invested in the argument. (if you are personally invested in the abstain option on suspect tests, seek help.)
jesus christ, grow up and play mons. you'll enjoy the game a lot once you try it for the first time!
who cares about whether you can vote "erm... no" on the ballot box
who cares
it's such a basic debate that shouldn't have any arguments. it's a "ehhhh ig no" or "ehhhh i think it should stay" and you accept the other person's arguments because deep down, this argument has the same weight as asking someone i they prefer cinnamon or butterscotch pie. it doesn't fucking matter.
the fact that the discussion thread is getting this heated over what is essentially nothing is so fucking stupid and every single person should be deeply ashamed of themselves for getting into this. seriously, it's not that hard to just go "fuckin whatever" if you aren't personally invested in the argument. (if you are personally invested in the abstain option on suspect tests, seek help.)
jesus christ, grow up and play mons. you'll enjoy the game a lot once you try it for the first time!
replies like this really don't help dude. yes it was a stupid debate but what do you gain from calling everyone here fucking stupid and to be ashamed for it? it's really not any less inflammatory than the debate itself and it's just as off topic. just let debates end without having to throw in the last word about them, especially when the last word is as exaggerated and inflammatory as it is. yes I realize the irony of me complaining about meta comments with a meta comment but whatever.
Maybe not a good example since Samurott is talked about a lot already, but it's such a good mon and there's so many interactions it forces that make so much progress.
Ceaseless+Knock is an amazing combo for making progress; if your switch in to Samurott is Mola then be prepared for Mola to lose its boots and take spikes damage on every switch (btw use Adamant max attack Samu, jolly is ass outspeeds nothing and can't do any damage). Water Dark STAB is incredible for this mon, even stuff like Oger is afraid to switch in on Water moves because Ceaseless into Sucker hurts a lot (Adamant Samu guarantees the kill just saying...). Sacred Sword is really underrated if you can fit it on AV sets, being able to hit Darkrai, Moon, and Gambit for sure kills is really valuable. I've even been hit with the rare Taunt Samu which feels awful when you just went Corv and can't Roost up. Some VR people have wanted it as an S Rank mons, and I agree. Maybe S--, it always gets something done unless Ceaseless Edge misses and it dies immediately in which case it's a shit mon with shit moves and shit stats. (jk I love you Samurott)
I really don't think it matters whether or not the abstain thing is implemented. I see the arguments for both sides, but I really don't think it would make any difference to the vast majority of people.
People who like the metagame are probably happy to vote DNB. People who don't like the metagame probably would confidently vote Ban, and people who are truly undecided and don't care probably never even went out to get reqs. I think the camp of people that 'just want TC badges' or is truly neutral is definitely not large enough to matter. Everyone that tries to get reqs probably wants to improve or maintain the metagame at least a bit, and when they do ultimately vote it'll come down to what they prefer, even if it's only marginally.
As for 'workhorses', off the top of my head there's Slowking-Galar, Lando-T, and Ting-Lu, but they're metagame staples. I assume you mean ones that are more niche, in which case I still think Tinkaton and Iron Treads can be really solid and reliable on the right builds.
People who like the metagame are probably happy to vote DNB. People who don't like the metagame probably would confidently vote Ban, and people who are truly undecided and don't care probably never even went out to get reqs. I think the camp of people that 'just want TC badges' or is truly neutral is definitely not large enough to matter. Everyone that tries to get reqs probably wants to improve or maintain the metagame at least a bit, and when they do ultimately vote it'll come down to what they prefer, even if it's only marginally.
A little tangential but I personally found that spdef Clefable can be fun in some cases as well, as it's a more stable check against mons like Valiant or Kyurem.
As for 'workhorses', off the top of my head there's Slowking-Galar, Lando-T, and Ting-Lu, but they're metagame staples. I assume you mean ones that are more niche, in which case I still think Tinkaton and Iron Treads can be really solid and reliable on the right builds.
Sometimes we just need a refresher on why something is so good to use
Dude the glowup Samurott got with it's busted signature is crazy. Like you said, it's a great pokemon who almost never doesn't do a something. It's one of the few pokemon in this tier I just can't feel good throwing shadw at. It's just that guy I guess
I like Sam and think you're right on all those points. I do want to say I don't think it's as reliable against all archetypes. Against fat and stall without the right Gliscor it borderlines on perfect. Against some balances and offenses the window of time you have for it to pop off is so small.
Writes that down
Tinkaton is weird since I never see it on ladder but everyone just agrees it's neat. It's just nice to have around. I personally used to hate Iron Treads because I was always thinking something along the lines of "It's just a mid Great Tusk but with a Fairy resist", and I was so wrong. Let's just say I wasn't familiar with Tread's game
'Cause other tiers use COIL due to the significantly smaller playerbase of those tiers. SV OU as the current gen OU does not use it, and for good reason since it allows players who are significantly less skilled to get reqs.
is it impossible for everyone here to go one day without engaging one another in vitriolic attacks? good grief.
Chill
No clue what happened here since Palafin verdict went up early Saturday AM and I am not going to go back/read through anytime soon. If you have something pressing from these pages for me, shoot me a PM. I was quite busy this weekend with smogon charity bowl -> getting engaged -> spl draft and stream -> family stuff and honestly do not have the energy to go through 5+ pages right now, so I am sorry about that.
Here are the official/final Palafin vote totals: https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/63
Here are the official/final Palafin vote totals: https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/63
- Palafin: Unban (33/131 = 25.19%)
- Palafin: Do Not Unban (98/131 = 74.81%)
Congrats on getting engaged!!
That's very fair, it definitely shines when its middling stats aren't being exposed by opposing offense. Even then, it gets some chances as a great switch-in to Ghold and an amazing lead. Lead Samu is one of the most defining things of OU and you honestly don't even need the Focus Sash for it.
I still really like choice scarf Hamurott. The sheer number of Dragapult leads you get to eat for free while also setting a spike feels like cheating.
i really hate choice scarf hamurott. the sheer number of times i've led dragapult and had it get eaten for free while also having a spike set on me must be cheating
on a less silly note, my preferred option for hamurott is assault vest. the "tank special hit that should kill -> do a ton of damage with ceaseless edge -> kill with sucker punch" interactions just feel great
on a less silly note, my preferred option for hamurott is assault vest. the "tank special hit that should kill -> do a ton of damage with ceaseless edge -> kill with sucker punch" interactions just feel great
At this point I’m half-convinced Hamurott could run Flame Orb and find a way to make it work. The sheer number of items that ‘mon can run is astounding sometimes. Band Hamurott is a sleeper.
SV stays saved for another 2 weeks
Bandurott is stupid into fat and stall.
This mon can absolutely fuck up stall with Knock + Ceaseless + Razor Shell.
As I've said before, it's the judge, jury, and executioner. It sets Spikes, knocks the mons, and then breaks them with Razor Shell. It's insane.
Also try SD hamurott it's pretty good. You can also try SD + Taunt if you're an asshole LMAO
Ye no I wasn't referring to the suspect, that one is fine as is. I was referring to the fact that you can't even check it out on ladder, like everyone just has - under coil rating, why can't we even see it?
coil requires a b value that is determined by the council at the start of a suspect, and the b value is needed to calculate coil. since ou isnt using coil-based suspects, theres no b value since there isnt a need for it and thus coil cant be calculated
Wouldn't it be better to have a standardized b value and change the coil value needed for suspect instead of changing the b value? So it could become a real value than measures skill other than just being for suspects. I will admit I don't know the inner workings of coil and the reason for it but it seems a bit strange that we have this value that's only used for suspects and it doesn't have a standard way to be read but idk, it could also just be a way to read your level of skill like gxe, but as I have said before IDK
I really hate choice scarf. The sheer number of times I’ve led and had my lead get eaten for free must be cheating.
Chad face yes
Do not keep in Pokemon that can get outpaced and OHKO’d by Scarf Samurott as a lead against Samurott if you do not want to get outpaced and OHKO’d by it
Ok now time for the serious post
If there’s one thing that we can learn from the Palashit retest it’s that there’s a silent majority who vote to keep the status quo. If you had only looked at the discussion threads you would think that things were pretty 50/50, or maybe 55 DNUB / 45 Unban but in fact 75% of people voted to keep it banned.
Adjusting the B value changes the balance between GXE and the number of games required to reach a certain COIL score. It's important for the B value to be adjustable so that councils can select a value that aligns with their specific criteria for the given test/tier/ladder.
You can learn more about COIL, how it's calculated and its uses here and here.