NOC Lumiose Legends Mafia - GAME OVER (Mafia Win)

Vizh said:
JALMONT did an (almost undebatably) worse bait than AG
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except I am not voting AG off of the bait. I am voting him both off of the mech reasons + keeping my vote on him because the obvious lack of a quickhammer outs this as scum. The weird desperate bait move is only the cherry on top.

I hate to be so absolutist but if we do not vote AG today then we all deserve to lose ngl. I don't care if that makes me seem scummy, it's just the truth. And again if AG is town, feel free to clown on me.
 
StupidFlandrs48 said:
Votecount 2.4: I Hate des With a Burning Passion
pulsar512b (3): Vizh, bluedoom, des121
charlieum (1): Aura Guardian
CrreamyKitty (1): Lechen
Dead by Daylight (1): Lechen
des121 (1): Dead by Daylight
Aura Guardian (1): charlieum
Vizh (0): CrreamyKitty

Not Voting (7): HydrogenHydreigon, Mekkah, a fairy, skippergamez, pulsar512b, sunny004, NightEmerald

Deadline is in 22 hours.
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Wo
sunny004 said:
TL;DR: Vote Bluedoom

I've been trying to stew on a coherent way to structure this post for a little bit and am having a bit of difficulty; maybe it's just from fever brain fog but anyway my tylenol is kicking in so I am gonna try to crank this out while I have a semblance of lucidity in me.

BD has been pretty "off" to me this game and makes me think that this slot is more likely than not scum. Generally I dislike how he has been pretty UTR all game to me; I acknowledge that part of this is due to timezone but there seems to be a distinct difference between disengaged players like DBD and pulsar (who I am not giving a free pass, just distinguishing) and BD in my mind. The other UTR players have been receiving at least a token amount of scrutiny from players but I just don't see this similar pressure on BD? Which is suspect? So I am going to put some pressure on him now.

My first interaction with him was in 338 where he sorta breadcrumbed that I should have voted tommy based off of our interaction w/r/t D1 rand. That struck me as odd but not damning. After all, why wouldn't have he just voted tommy himself? Additionally this is more of a playermeta thing so take it with a grain of salt but generally I have noted BD to be "nicer" when he is scum? BD is always a chill guy and is never mean which is great, but the last scumgame I played with him that sticks out in my memory (Zorbees' big city) scum BD was similarly nicer than usual. So these initially keyed me in on this slot.

Speaking more broadly I also dislike how he has generally tunneled on NE and skip all game (technically as early as 238 but I'll be generous and give a beginning at 729 where it seemingly begins in earnest); I am not saying that I necessarily TR NE or here but this tunneling gives BD an excuse to *not* put pressure on most other players, which in turn prevents negative reactions from the wagoned players. I could totally see a world here where BD is attempting to bus NE (if not actively, then passively) in order to gain significant towncred, and generally when I identify this I prefer to vote the bussER before the busEE because it is more alignment-indicative to me. I am also generally not the biggest fan of an NE wagon; I admit that that is pretty vibes-based on my end but it seems to be a similar LHF situation at a cursory glance.

The other person that I could see BD being aligned with is DBD. He seems to be doing a pretty classic scum breadcrumbing vote strategy there. He always finds that DBD's position is not great but conveniently always finds a better option to vote due to DBD's "lack of info" (more on this later)

His general voting pattern throughout D1 and D2 has been suspect to me as well; looking back we see he votes Vizh in 238 and was actually the first to vote aligning in 781 before landing on NE again in 898. However he has been pretty non-committal with his actual vote desires and has indicated a desire to vote people in a very TMI-esque way without actually doing so. Let's take a look at some of these:
- Likes voting NE because he hasn't said anything (fine, I grant it was early in the game but still worth noting)

- See skipper point here

- Totally unrelated but I just found Hyhy's 263 which really sums up my general vibe. But anyway moving on


- I talked about this earlier but this interaction with me struck me as pretty odd? Like again why not vote tommy yourself

- This is 729. Note again here how he breadcrumbs a NE vote while taking pressure off of DBD.

- 781. Focus on the blue highlighted parts here; more on that later.



- 854-856. Consistent here with above, just posting to establish the pattern.



- Adding vizh's post here for context since BD's 1579 (middle post) is responding to it. This seems like a big turn to me personally; it didn't take too much convincing for BD to peel off of NE, who he has been basically been laser-focused on all game, and onto pulsar (and conveniently NOT DBD, although I do recognize the RB claim there presents issues). Didn't he just say that he didn't like voting this slot because it wouldn't have provided too much info? And that pulsar is classic D2 miselim bait? I get that it's now D2 but the arguments he raises above still apply, no? Seems very inconsistent to me.

- But note how he hedges here wrt NE.

Anyway sorry if this was completely incoherent but I think BD has been very UTR and honestly quite inconsistent with his votes + seems to be doing scum breadcrumb voting and it doesn't smell right to me.

I need to go to bed soon due to my illness but I recognize that I am just dropping a nuke and then am sleeping shortly afterwards; since it was just a vaccine I should be better tomorrow but lmk if any questions before I sleep; otherwise I will certainly be around tomorrow morning when I am better + certainly will be on near EOD so feel free to grill me on any of these points + anything incoherent I may have written (which is very possible given my current state.)
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Vizh said:
Can you link me to that
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admittedly i did not go into much detail but

marlyne said:
no
hear me out
that's not scum!JALMONT is it
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(in the context of jalmont's reaction)

i also tried solving for his role
marlyne said:
in fact the presence of two trackers does make sense with this
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and came to the conclusion that it makes sense in the setup

re: AG i have been consistent about wanting to resolve them first
marlyne said:
this is not 4 but
1) AG - surely that role thief is NOT town-aligned??
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marlyne said:
i will have to rethink but atm i'm leaning AG because i'm still stuck on the whole role thief thing
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marlyne said:
SURELY this isnt town aligned
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the only time i tr'd them was shortly after i subbed in and skimmed thru their posts but ultimately i realised that their claim required resolving
hence why i opted for an AG vote over JALMONT yesterday
 
sunny004 said:
except I am not voting AG off of the bait. I am voting him both off of the mech reasons + keeping my vote on him because the obvious lack of a quickhammer outs this as scum. The weird desperate bait move is only the cherry on top.
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Except the mafia don't have daychat to DO the quickhammer. I conclude that multiple people who voted me at any time today are mafia.
 
sunny004 said:
except I am not voting AG off of the bait. I am voting him both off of the mech reasons + keeping my vote on him because the obvious lack of a quickhammer outs this as scum. The weird desperate bait move is only the cherry on top.

I hate to be so absolutist but if we do not vote AG today then we all deserve to lose ngl. I don't care if that makes me seem scummy, it's just the truth. And again if AG is town, feel free to clown on me.
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Please explain the mech reasons for AG to be scum? Role speculation has had a 0% success rate so far this entire game and I am not particularly inclined to think that this is somehow going to be the time we hit the nail on the head

Quick hammer requires scum to be present and following the vote count in order to actually work, both of which are significantly hindered by daychat

Not saying AG is like locktown or anything, but that I tr AG more than you are marlyne and think we should vote out both of you first
 
Vizh said:
Please explain the mech reasons for AG to be scum? Role speculation has had a 0% success rate so far this entire game and I am not particularly inclined to think that this is somehow going to be the time we hit the nail on the head

Quick hammer requires scum to be present and following the vote count in order to actually work, both of which are significantly hindered by daychat

Not saying AG is like locktown or anything, but that I tr AG more than you are marlyne and think we should vote out both of you first
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Way to obfuscate from the 2x L-1 fact again. I am not answering any questions until you explain thoroughly why that fact makes you TR AG more than literally any other player than mekkah.
 
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