Metagame Alphabet Cup

Just an interesting set I've found while laddering:

Raging Bolt @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Revelation Dance
- Dragon Pulse

It's just Raging Bolt with Recovery and better Tera Blast (Revelation Dance is Electric non-Tera, Fairy w/ Tera).
from experience most Pex are physdef to handle DD Dragonite, so after 1-2 Calm Minds this mon blows through most teams (bar Haze Blissey).
 
King DeDe (Dragonite) @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Earthquake
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed

;)

No, but seriously, as someone who hasn't played a single alphabet cup game yet this pokemon seems completely insane. You have basically get everything you want from stab to coverage to even priority. You could probably even forgo priority entirely and go Double Iron Bash with tera steel.
 
King DeDe (Dragonite) @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Earthquake
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed

;)

No, but seriously, as someone who hasn't played a single alphabet cup game yet this pokemon seems completely insane. You have basically get everything you want from stab to coverage to even priority. You could probably even forgo priority entirely and go Double Iron Bash with tera steel.
Double Iron Bash isn’t in gen 9.



Restrict Triple Arrows. It’s uncompetitive, enough said.
An idea is to ban Samurott-Hisui. It’s strong yeah, but the real kicker is Sharpness-boosted Ceaseless Edge AND Stone Axe.
 
After playing for a bit i think Dragonite and Glare are the biggest problems in the tier.

Dragonite is ridiculous and can beat pretty much all it's counters with the right set.
Glare's distribution is too wide for a 100 accuracy paralysis move that actually affects ground types, and it's not like it's only on niche pokemon. Gliscor, Grimmsnarl, Garganacl, Gholdengo, Goodra-H, just to name a few. At times it feels like you're just forced to run an electric type unless you just want to get all your team paralyzed
Edit: low key i think Sacred Fire is also pretty broken with it being an S move and the 50% chance to burn. I could also see Sceptile becoming a problem down the line, it's qlready a very dangerous sweeper as is.
 
Last edited:
Are the torque moves very good? I don't think i've seen anyone mention the moves even though some of them seems very strong (100/100 moves with 30% side effects)
 
Are the torque moves very good? I don't think i've seen anyone mention the moves even though some of them seems very strong (100/100 moves with 30% side effects)
Magical Torque and Combat Torque are great. Blazing Torque is a good move but most would rather place Bitter Blade over it when able. Noxious Torque is a good move it’s just that there’s not many N Pokemon, and none of them are even Poison type. Wicked Torque is mid and everything would use Wicked Blow over it when possible.
 
Hey guys any good set on my boy greninja(a.k.a the new coverage monster) after meowscarada ban I was thinking my boy greninja had to have some good moves can u guys recommend any?
 
Hey guys any good set on my boy greninja(a.k.a the new coverage monster) after meowscarada ban I was thinking my boy greninja had to have some good moves can u guys recommend any?
Highly recommend protean Gigaton Hammer. Everything else doesn't matter too much, but it does have first impression to be a budget Lokix with surprise factor, Flare Blitz, Fusion Bolt, and even Glaive Rush. It just depends on what you want it to do. Always with a band tho.
 
Last edited:
Incineroar @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Imprison
- Transform
- Fire Spin
- Parting Shot

been having some fun with this set, pretty gimmicky but its very possible to trap and kill threats. even managed to reverse sweep a few games by stealing their sweeper
 
Incineroar @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Imprison
- Transform
- Fire Spin
- Parting Shot

been having some fun with this set, pretty gimmicky but its very possible to trap and kill threats. even managed to reverse sweep a few games by stealing their sweeper
Use Infestation over Fire Spin, it has 100% accuracy over 85% in exchange for less power, but incineroar wasn't dealing much direct damage with fire spin anyways
 
Glare is restricted, Dragonite is banned, King's Rock + Razor Fang are banned, and Terastalization is banned!

Eli BandedBodyPress InkyDarkBird RESULT
GlareRESTRICTRESTRICTRESTRICT3-0-0 RESTRICT
King's Rock + Razor FangBANBANBAN3-0-0 BAN
DragoniteBANBANBAN3-0-0 BAN
VolcanionDNBDNBBAN1-2-0 DNB
Torch SongDNRDNRDNR0-3-0 DNR
V-createDNRDNRDNR0-3-0 DNR
TerastalizationDNBBANBAN2-1-0 BAN
(DNR means do not restrict)

Glare
Glare is the currently the most oppressive and uncompetitive move in the format. Having numerous great users such as Gliscor, Gholdengo, Goodra-Hisui, Great Tusk, etc means that most Alphabet Cup games will have a Glare user. Unlike Thunder Wave or Stun Spore, Glare is 100% accurate and will paralyze you unless you are an Electric type, nearly requiring almost every team to have an Electric type because getting fully paralyzed is devastating for every archetype.

:kings-rock: and :razor-fang:
King's Rock and Razor Fang ban just for generic uncompetitiveness. We don't need gimmicky Toucannons Population Bombing.

:dragonite:
Dragonite is one of the best Pokemon in the format, gaining access to Dragon Ascent and Dragon Darts. However, this has caused Dragonite to become broken, with Choice Banded sets 2HKOing Toxapex and other walls, Dragon Darts being able to counter itself by breaking Multiscale, stopping Prankster Thundurus with Extreme Speed, and resisting both Fire and Water, harming weather teams. Once Dragonite is set up, it becomes extremely difficult to counter besides Corviknight, which already competes for a team slot with Toxapex.

:volcanion:
Volcanion is the best V-create user for outputting dangerous levels of damage, with or without Victory Dance. Gaining access to Volt Tackle also allows it to counter any Water Pokemon that hope to wall it. However, it is still relatively slow and will also be nerfed by the Terastalization ban, so it will remain unbanned.

Torch Song
Torch Song has seen usage on Sceptile, Typhlosion-Hisui, and Thundurus(-Therian) for its synergy with Throat Spray instantly granting a +2 SpA boost while being a great coverage move. However, as listed above, there are not many users of Torch Song, and the most broken one (Sceptile) can be banned if it becomes problematic.

V-create
V-create has 3 main users: Volcanion, Ninetales, and Slaking. Volcanion has been discussed above already, so I will just cover Ninetales and Slaking. Ninetales, due to its frailty and speed, prefers to run Choice Scarf to eliminate fast attackers. However, this is predictable and leaves it weak to hazard teams. Slaking is also simply countered by Protosynthesis and Quark Drive Pokemon, as well as Pecharunt and Gholdengo because Skill Swap fails against them. Therefore, V-create will not be restricted.

Terastalization
Terastalization is being banned for amplifying the power level of the format: Tera Electric Double Shock, Tera Fire V-create/Torch Song, Tera Water Boomburst, etc, all destroy stall Pokemon, even if the move is resisted. Therefore, Terastalization is banned.

pinging dhelmise to implement the changes
 
With tera being banned, and hoodra being (probably) even better after these bans, magnezone might be a pretty good trapper for it, and has the benefit of trapping corv at the same time.

Magnezone @ Air Balloon/Unsure
Ability: Magnet Pull
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Milk Drink/Make It Rain
- Magma Storm/Thunderbolt

(Unsure of this current set, will probably test more)

Dnite being gone is unfortunate for zone considering corv was one of the best dnite checks, but zone can really enable mons like Iron Bundle that struggle to take Hoodra down.
 
Would love some input on my team! Currently sitting around ~1200 but finding it hard to play against trick room & hyper-stall teams

https://pokepast.es/a68c7058d7c41cad
Double priority on Breloom is pushing it a little bit. Replacing Shadow Sneak with Bullet Seed will let Breloom hit much harder. Your team is about to lose a bunch of Tera coverage, so reexamining coverage moves on given mons should also help. I'd replace Tinkaton with something else to resist Ceaseless Edge; I'm gonna come out and say that I don't think Tidy Up is a good move.
 
These are some great bans! I'm happy Dragonite is gone, I feel like it was a really restrictive presence on the metagame. Personally, I found Glare more annoying than anything, but it will be nice to not have to account for it when switching in on Goodra-Hisui or Gliscor and make one less thing to consider when teambuilding. Tera ban has the potential to be good as well, that extra bit of stability will make the meta a lot more digestible.

Here is my new threat list! These are all things I think we should keep an eye on. Ranked in threat level from top to bottom.

Urshifu-Single-Strike:urshifu:
Hey everyone. Did you know that both forms of Urshifu are legal in this? It's a little fucked up, but it's true. Urshifu-Single-Strike was number 2 on my shitlist before Dragonite was banned, and it has just risen to number one. It doesn't gain much from Alphabet Cup (Knock off and Upper Hand) but it doesn't really need anything in order to become completely unanswerable defensively. While it lost the ability to Tera Dark to get those 2HKOs, everything else lost the ability to Tera Fairy, which is probably a net benefit for it. This might not be as well known if you haven't played with this mon since Gen 8 OU, but Urshifu also has SD this gen, letting it completely beat down defensive mons (tera-less Skeledirge or bulky intimidators like defensive Salamence are not enough, Burning Bulwark doesn't work either) while taking out offensive mons with a boosted Sucker Punch. I didn't really comment on it earlier cause I sort of assumed it would be quickbanned at some point, honestly. Please consider that.

Iron Bundle:iron bundle:
Stupidly fast mon with strong neutral coverage. It doesn't need Specs to blast through offensive mons slower than it (most of them are slower than it), but it certainly helps against specially-bulky switch-ins. The closest thing to checks to this mon are special walls that aren't weak to its moves, namely Blissey, Slowking-Galar and Goodra-Hisui. Maybe some more niche mons like Muk-Alola or Snorlax as well. Even still, these mons take enough from Specs-boosted neutral hits that hazards, crits, even chip damage from Flip Turn can put them in range of 2HKO. Against offense, it basically just gets into a favourable position and clicks buttons, but it might find it a little harder to manage to do with my predicted influx of priority-using sweepers that were previously too dominated by Dragonite to succeed. Either way, Iron Bundle is such a menace, it has way too much speed and power at its disposal.

Ninetales:ninetales:
V-create should probably have a spurious gaze cast on it as well. The best V-create user imo is CB Ninetales, which is almost a Dracovish-esque breaker that does about 47-50% to phys def Toxapex with its main STAB option. This is obviously completely ridiculous for most teams to switch in on, and almost requires even bulkier Fire resists like phys def Intimidate Salamence, changing the weather with Pelipper (watch out for Volt Tackle!) or Tyranitar, or even just straight-up immunities like Heatran. The main shortcoming of Ninetales is that it's super matchup-dependent. Offensive teams often just outspeed it and kill it easily, and while the threat of Scarf is there as well, I feel like Band really allows it to find a good role in the metagame. Ninetales's level of brokenness, like these sort of exorbitantly powerful breakers often are, is really debateable because of its matchup-dependence.

Volcanion:volcanion:
Volcanion is the other main V-create user. I'm sort of hesitant to say Volcanion is close-to-broken on its own, as it really kinda just makes use of two borderline moves, being V-create and Victory Dance. CB Volcanion is a good breaker, not quite as potent as Ninetales on its own but it can come in a lot easier thanks to its defensive qualities. It can take out some Fire-types a little easier and also generally fits better on Trick Room thanks to a lower speed tier. The Victory Dance set is kind of the more threatening set overall, with a ton of power and tricky to revenge kill after a boost as well. It's got its checks for sure, but even they can be overwhelmed after some boosts, and the lack of Tera Dragon to put your Corviknight into a state where it resists all of Volcanion's moves will make it even more difficult to manage. Although V-create can put Volcanion into a revengeable state, that's usually after it's managed to take something out first. This is one that I feel like will definitely improve with the most recent wave of bans, we should keep a close eye on it for sure.

Salamence:salamence:
Salamence was never really bad so much as somewhat overshadowed by Dragonite. Now, Salamence is poised to become one of the best sweepers in the meta. Like Dragonite, it boasts powerful Flying STAB, but it's arguably even more versatile, making use of so many S moves (Scale Shot, Sacred Fire, Stone Axe, Swords Dance and more), not to mention Bitter Blade and Bolt Strike from B, among others. This results in a supremely customizable setup sweeper with strong STAB and a ton of quirky coverage, a Scarf revenge killer that can spiral out of control with Moxie, or a solid defensive mon with Intimidate and some great utility options. The main saving grace is, unlike Dragonite, you can check it with a priority user... unless it Sucker Punches you first, I guess.

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:urshifu:
Haven't even seen this mon much, I'd imagine it struggles much more with common bulky water resists like Toxapex and Amoonguss and is more vulnerable to contact punishing. It also is very hard to handle after an SD and even gains Knock Off to remove helmets on CB sets. I'd also like to mention that Future Sight from Slowking-Galar is still viable support for either Urshifu in this, although I find that it generally struggles to connect with Toxapex as easily thanks to Teleport.

Ursaluna:ursaluna:
Trick Room is viable in this meta, with new setters and abusers. I think it's wise to keep an eye on it, as TR pivots like Toxapex or Ting-Lu, as well as OTR Ursaluna, not to mention powerful slow threats like choiced Volcanion, Primarina, or Araquanid all give the playstyle legs to stand on. Ursaluna is of course the crux of Trick Room, being able to set it up for itself and its team and leveraging so much power. There have been times where I've played against it and felt totally helpless, but the banning of Dragonite should allow more room for other offensive priority users in the meta that can hopefully pick off a worn-down TR sweeper.

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon:ursaluna-bloodmoon:
More broken bears. Doesn't really gain anything from this meta and doesn't need to. This mon is a bit low on the list because I'm not 100% sure about it, it felt hard to use before the last wave of bans as it tended to turn over a lot of momentum to Dragonite, now it has the potential to feel a lot stronger against a variety of teams.

Cinderace:cinderace:
Cinderace is probably one of the top offensive mons you can use. It can hit pretty much any switch-in hard with its strong coverage, or chip it down with U-turn, or set up or clear hazards, or get a burn with Sacred Fire, or any number of rude things. With Libero and such wide coverage, it's really capable of 2HKOing pretty much anything on a CB set with the appropriate move, so you need to scout it first lest you lose your wall to some weird move like Crabhammer or Supercell Slam or something. Really annoying mon.

Hazard spam:samurott-hisui::gholdengo:
Hazard spam + gholdengo was a very successful team composition, now with Glare banned Gholdengo has fallen off some. In general, experimenting with Tidy Up and Court Change users helped me play around this, but even still, against a good player, it was really punishing to be able to find an opportunity to clear hazards and I was often unable to recover.

Other victory dancers:slaking::flygon::revavroom:
There are other viable Victory Dance users as well, and they are all capable of using V-create for powerful coverage. While I don't feel strongly that any of them are really broken, they can be really difficult to manage for offensive teams relying on physical priority moves to check offensive threats.
 
Hi with tera recently gone, I've wanted to come up with things I feel could be due for a potential unban list instead of a threat list!


Zamazenta :zamazenta:
The dog was probably fine with or without tera and I think is an outdated unban, but it would be a good addition to the tier in my opinion to help check offense while not being too centralizing on it's own, given that it gains access to nothing with Z besides Zing Zap, which is just a slight upgrade from Wild Charge if you are worried about recoil.

Regieleki :regieleki:
With no tera, its best options to hit ground types will be Razor Shell and Razor Leaf (Swampert), with an honorable mention to Raging Fury for hitting grass types. This guy sucks, but it gets new options like recover?!!! Would be funny to see a defensive Regieleki set but as far as it goes, it should probably be let back in the tier.

Terapagos :terapagos-terastal:
This would be the only one I'd be even slightly hesitant about. Without tera, it no longer has access to its extremely busted form in Stellar Terapagos, but it still keeps the 600BST form. What it does gain is T, which I think is one of the more interesting letters to gain, which gives it an upgrade from Calm Mind to Take Heart for boosting sets, Torch Song for fire coverage that lets it boost when it wants, Taunt to shutdown fat/stall, Topsy Turvy to stop something at full hp in tandem with its ability and Teleport to keep momentum. It even gets Tidy Up if you want to clear hazards that way instead of Rapid Spin or attempt some weird physical set (would not recommend). However, it still is a normal type with 105 base Special Attack which without Tera Starstorm or some boosts means you aren't the most threatening on turn 0 and it would usually want to utilize a slot on spin/tidy up to attempt to sweep meaning it would likely be strapped for moveslots. Personally, I think I'd like to see it be given a chance and that the meta could definitely handle it but if the threat of it gaining new moves is seen as too broken even without Tera then that's fine.

When making this list I thought I would have more to add but it's really just those three, I think everything else is just naturally broken or doesn't need tera to stay just barely broken (looking at you, Wicked Blow Weavile).

For compensation of not finding as many mons that I think aren't as broken anymore, here's a modified stall team that I used to reach 1500 on ladder: :amoonguss: :blissey: :corviknight: :skeledirge: :gliscor: :toxapex:
 
How long until the tera ban takes effect? im still getting ruined by trick room tera fire vcreate volcanion
im trying to use flash fire ceru/arma/heatran but i get ruined by its water stab
 
Last edited:
Siren (Primarina) @ Assault Vest/Choice Specs
Ability: Liquid Voice
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest/Quiet Nature
- Boomburst
- Moonblast
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn/Draining Kiss

Panic Button (Krookodile) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Axe
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Dragon Tail
 
Alright, just about half way through the month, and I can say the metagame is pretty good (even if I am barely top 100 on the ladder lol).
Here are some thoughts that I have had on random things in the metagame in no particular order.

Dragapult and Glare :Dragapult:
I found both of these pretty uncompetitive, and I am glad to see these both gone/restricted. I am going to leave it at that, otherwise you would get a whole rant on glare, and I will just say I am happy it will be gone off ladder soon.

Primarina :Primarina:
While not as broken as dragon energy dragapult because of the speed, it is still very strong, and must be built around. (Especially Specs, but calm mind or scarf can surprise and are still effective)

Tidy Up (:Tyranitar:, :Ting Lu:)
I think this is the most interesting move in the format. Most people use it to sweep with certain pokemon, such as t-tar, Terrakion, Emboar, and even Tauros (and forms) if you are getting spicy, but the hazard removal aspect of it is often overlooked. Ting Lu with this move, as an example, is amazing at hazard removal, and now even stronger, with its 110 base attack being nothing to scoff at. I love this move, lots of potential, for lots of archetypes.

Toxapex :toxapex:
People may hate me for this, but this is a cool mon in the format. Sure, teleport helmet pex is the standard, and kinda annoying, but the new moves it has access to, such as malignant chain, thunder cage, mortal spin, (edit: and take heart to cure status, which will be less good now that glare is being restricted) and the aforementioned tidy up, makes this version of toxapex much more varied and interesting then in standard formats.

Landorus-Therian :Landorus-Therian:
Just wanted to quickly mention the GOAT, who, even though only gets one really notable move, is still an insane glue mon on most of my teams. (maybe I am just bad at team building, or maybe leech seed is just that good)

Hazards in General (:Samurott-hisui:)
Despite the wide spread access to SR and Spikes on all the S mons, and Ceaseless Edge and Stone Axe also being distributed fairly widely, they still seem to me to be less oppressive than the standard formats.
Maybe I just like tidy up too much, but I think that all the users of Tidy up, Mortal Spin, and Rapid spin who are able to remove them and get tempo as well while doing so, makes the hazard spam strategy inconsistent, and therefore well checked, imo.
(I have not seen a gholdnego on ladder today, and there will be even less when it loses glare)

Screens (:Ninetales-Alola:, :Grimmsnarl:, :Light Clay:)
I think screens are sadly viable, but also there is counterplay, whether being more direct counterplay, with lots of mons having access to Raging Bull, Brick Break and most notably Court Change, but also a lot of indirect counterplay, with pivots, and multiple viable unaware mons.
I think screens are a little restricting, and not very fun to prepare for, but I sadly also don't think light clay is worth banning.

Stall (:Blissey:, :Gliscor:, :Dondozo:)
It is strange to me that there are people running stall on this ladder. Not because I don't understand the appeal of the play style, but in a format where your opponents might have the random coverage that beats you? It's just strange to me. One example would be a special attacking s and p pokemon could very easily slap on Secret Sword or Psystrike to counter blissey, and so many pokemon destroy gliscor with a random ice move they now learn.
Anyway, stall players, tell me how you don't lose your mind to random coverage on ladder, because I have won several games against stall because they don't expect Triple Axel Ting Lu just as an example.

Clodsire :Clodsire:
He is just a funny boi, keeping lots in check, and bluffing unaware, or water absorb, but dies to EQ no matter the set. This is a silly guy, with access to some of the interesting moves, like cotton guard, court change, and Wisp, makes clod a versatile guy.


Anyways, those were some thoughts, maybe I will post thought at the end of the month too...
Metagame Approved!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top