Metagame 2v2 Doubles Metagame Discussion

[Adam3560]

C -> A
Necessary for Arch rain teams.
B- -> A
Effect spore, Rage powder, Sunny day, The possibilities are endless

Three is not endless

 

[Medeia]

Ogerpon-Cornerstone A+ -> A/A-

I personally think Ogerpon-Cornerstones rank should drop further, it kinda flopped in UMPL and it hasn't been used much so far in 3 weeks of 2v2PL and that's certainly not what i expect from a A+ rank mon that defines the meta alongside the S Ranks. People first adapted with more spread moves like eg. Icy Wind/Dazzling Gleam on Flutter Mane + something to KO it like Scarf Zapdos-Galar before Iron Hands drop and since the latter dropped and usage of mons like Iron Crown increased it really struggles to justify usage over both Wellspring and Hearthflame Ogerpon (moreso the former). I personally would prefer a drop to A- as i write this where Incin is now.

 

[Arcanine1929]

It seems we are starting to actually say things in this thread :D. I haven't played a set of gen 9 in a long while tbh, but have started a project of building at least 5 teams a day until the end of pl. Will teamdump that hot garbage after but basically im saying is dont take my words like they are good.

Time to drop some noms, if i play gen 9 ever again ill get some better ones but like i dont play ladder anymore :(
Ur -> somewhere lol idk, good support, annoyingly bulky for no reason, it does no damage but indeedee does the same thing but a lot better so !dt 360

D -> ehhh like C+ With the right set (matcha gotcha suks in this meta) this thing can do a lot of things with the right supporting cast, Redirect, the best move in the world strength sap, and hits everything with shadow ball. I honestly love building with this stupid soup bowl or wtver and i think its very solid

B+ -> S I have to put this here for my brand, sorry for making u read this :). Incredibly bulky willo and helping hand, and... yeah im gonna stop trying to make a case for my friends.

A- -> B+ again, i don't play gen 9 much, but whenever i do this thing just sucks. It really feels like it needs 5 moveslots cuz protectless is so stupid. It doesn't ohko anything except with the meat beam and u can just protect it if u read it right. No support, its ability is good but like.. its one hit and if u cant deal enough damage back, its just not worth for me.

Im running out of ideas but i want to make my longest post ever just because imperial called me 2v2 guy yesterday.
B- -> B. Yes i know yall just dropped it but with the rise of gouging fire defiant is getting better. This speedy bird does lose to fake out, yes, i get that, but it gets a lot out of what it has. Can 2ko anything and ohko about half the things if you run adamant please run adamant, chien pao really helps this thing and that does constrict ur building with it but its still good. I really just keep yapping don't i... anyways, forces speed booster energy on everything kind of which is fun and exploitable :)

A- -> B Long neck guy... where do i begin, oh i know, I hate everything about this thing from the design to the fact that every single calc with it never works. Specs does like 99.6 max with thunderclap to flutter, iirc its exactly 50/50 with chien pao nobody likes those odds. What does this thing ohko with booster energy, it never gets ohkoed bu that doesnt metter cuz ur slow af, maybe yall can build with this thing but i sure cant.
"One Punch Man? Saitama? No, im the inferior two punch man, Sidepapa" I am MoBo - 2023 (had to squeeze that in there hehe ;)

Im getting tired of yapping tbh and of not sleeping cuz im stressed about lcbc :)
erm... what now, probably something about ursaluna suking cuz it cant take two hits and basically take a turn to charge up but i cant write no more, gn


"Suprise attack!" not really but um UR -> C- every support move in the book, need i say more? oh except rediection and no good ability or attacks

ok now gn, will probably post something in this thread hopefully for every hundred post special if i dont for get, but for now bye ig feel free to tag me in the cord to tell me how wrong i am on everything :D gn

 

[Drake.D.Blitz]

By the way:

Every 2v2 Tour this year will come with at least a $100 dollar prize pool, sponsored by yours truly

Have fun >:)

When is the 2v2 doubles tournament (not ou) gonna happen?

 

[Arcanine1929]

When is the 2v2 doubles tournament (not ou) gonna happen?

Look 2 posts above that? im really confused about this question...

 

[Drake.D.Blitz]

Thnx

Look 2 posts above that? im really confused about this question...

 

[Drake.D.Blitz]

Ok it might be weird for asking these questions but i am new to forums and very recently find out something like it exist.

To start I like 2v2 doubles a lot but I am very upset by the fact that how difficult is to climb ladder most of the time I would facing opponent which would have lower elo then me (by the time of writing this I am 1400+ elo) which means if I lose 1 match it would take me minimum 4 matches just to regain that elo it has to do with 2v2 d not being popular and there are not enough players. I really like this format but if things continue like this I may have to leave this format. That's why I am asking these questions because these 2 factors have a very important role in making a format popular.
Now my question are
Q1 why does some unofficial metagames like zu and 1v1 have their own room while other don't? Is it possible to create a separate room for 2v2
Q2 why does strategy dex of 2v2 doubles is empty I am willing to volunteer for creating some builds which are very strong (note I started playing 2v2 doubles 6 to 4 months ago but I learned about Smogon around a month ago)

I hope the 2v2 D council will notice my doubts and provide suitable explanation

 

[Arcanine1929]

Ok it might be weird for asking these questions but i am new to forums and very recently find out something like it exist.

To start I like 2v2 doubles a lot but I am very upset by the fact that how difficult is to climb ladder most of the time I would facing opponent which would have lower elo then me (by the time of writing this I am 1400+ elo) which means if I lose 1 match it would take me minimum 4 matches just to regain that elo it has to do with 2v2 d not being popular and there are not enough players. I really like this format but if things continue like this I may have to leave this format. That's why I am asking these questions because these 2 factors have a very important role in making a format popular.
Now my question are
Q1 why does some unofficial metagames like zu and 1v1 have their own room while other don't? Is it possible to create a separate room for 2v2
Q2 why does strategy dex of 2v2 doubles is empty I am willing to volunteer for creating some builds which are very strong (note I started playing 2v2 doubles 6 to 4 months ago but I learned about Smogon around a month ago)

I hope the 2v2 D council will notice my doubts and provide suitable explanation

I have some time on my hands so...
First thing: This is probably the case for like at least 50% of ladders, i mean off the top of my head, if you read column by column, anywhere past zu is dead except nat dex. I've played at least 70% of all the ladders, trust me, there are some worse ones.

Question 1: We used to have a 2v2/1v1 room, pretty sure that died and 1v1 just split off. Then we had a 2v2 room, barely 5 lines a day, so too inactive to keep the room going. Ums room is nice, i did like the 2v2 room tho :)
Question 2: Strategy dex is rough, it has to go through like 3 stages of writing, looking at old threads it took like half a year to get them done with all the inactivity. We can put the sets in a set comp but tough to get them into the strategy dex. I'm not 100% sure on the reason we never got to this in sv, kry or someone can hopefully provide a better explaination than me. :)

but for now, c- -> c+
A- -> A, i like scarf, its fun :)

 

[Drake.D.Blitz]

I have some time on my hands so...
First thing: This is probably the case for like at least 50% of ladders, i mean off the top of my head, if you read column by column, anywhere past zu is dead except nat dex. I've played at least 70% of all the ladders, trust me, there are some worse ones.

Question 1: We used to have a 2v2/1v1 room, pretty sure that died and 1v1 just split off. Then we had a 2v2 room, barely 5 lines a day, so too inactive to keep the room going. Ums room is nice, i did like the 2v2 room tho :)
Question 2: Strategy dex is rough, it has to go through like 3 stages of writing, looking at old threads it took like half a year to get them done with all the inactivity. We can put the sets in a set comp but tough to get them into the strategy dex. I'm not 100% sure on the reason we never got to this in sv, kry or someone can hopefully provide a better explaination than me. :)

but for now, c- -> c+
A- -> A, i like scarf, its fun :)

So is there anything that players like us can do for this format?
There are many favorite mons of mine which I want to use and experiment with but I can't because if I lose elo it would take way to long to regain I mean I can create an alt account but I am not only playing for elo I am also playing for fun and isn't this more about having fun then being a try hard

 

[Drake.D.Blitz]

And also is there any way that the room might be started again in future

 

[Arcanine1929]

Welp, we are out of pl, was fun, first time managing as well so time to post my teams from the challenge
https://pokepast.es/7ff6636d61ddc02d This is just for inspiration, if any of yall use these in tours ur fking stupid. I reused evs mostly cuz i was lazy. Anyways, see yall in other tours, ty for the comments about the teams sucking, i know...

So is there anything that players like us can do for this format?
There are many favorite mons of mine which I want to use and experiment with but I can't because if I lose elo it would take way to long to regain I mean I can create an alt account but I am not only playing for elo I am also playing for fun and isn't this more about having fun then being a try hard

Well we are working on reviving the tier in general, i think we got a set comp coming soon and also more tours with 2v2 in general. But i mean like dead ladders kinda just sit there, idk what to do about it

And also is there any way that the room might be started again in future

Defo a question for the council and not me, but i would assume no unless 2v2 really takes off again

Also with the teams i screwed yall over its not copy pastable lmao get rekt :)
also also idk what kry is gonna do about skymin but we can still rank it :) ur -> idk A-? A?

And thats all im contributing to gen 9 2v2 for a while, um... GO HORSES WOOOOOOOO

 

[fake tom numbers]

Some VR noms after 2v2pl
UR -> B-
Protect Encore Disable Rock Tomb is my go-to moves, speed control is really nice (especially if youre speed booster) and you can actually 1v1 some mons if you encore loop them, or just do encore disable stuff. I have seen other moves like twave used but you really want to have an attacking move usually. also rock tomb ohkoes talon lol

UR -> C
Cool typing + Competitive = good mon. I would usually run Air Balloon or Chople but stuff like sitrus probably work as well. Helping Hand, Icy Wind, other support stuff while having good matchups into many mons that use breaking swipe/snarl/intim.

UR -> C+
Can sometimes be better than Pelipper with stuff like genies cuz you get icy wind, helping hand yeah.

UR -> C-
Fake Out Encore is cool, I ran Air Balloon which makes you it a really good support mon. Unfortunately outside of gigaton hammer u do zero damage sadly.

UR -> D
Good typing, I ran AV once as an anti trick room mon since it's really slow and does good damage.

UR -> D
Cool Scarf mon, it gets wave crash, has intimidate and outspeeds basically all other scarf mons like kyurem gholdengo etc.

 

[fake tom numbers]

Updated speed tiers, still gotta add in a lot of the slower mons (metagross ursaluna etc) other ev spreads like min speeds or scarf mons, but for now I'll leave this here

If you have any suggestions/questions then just ping/dm me on cord

Speed Tiers

Key
Min Speed = 0 IVs + Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
-Nature = Reducing Nature + 0 EVs
Bulky = 0 EVs
Fast = 252 EVs
Max Speed = Increasing Nature + 252 EVs
Sun Boosted = Chlorophyll in Sun
Rain Boosted = Swift Swim in Rain
Energy Boosted = Protosynthesis / Quark Drive speed boost
Any instance of a Speed increasing item, ability, or relevant element will also be mentioned.
Bolded text will be used to indicate particularly important benchmarks

Speed	Pokemon	sprite	speed in tailwind
76	Bulky Torkoal		152
78	Iron Ball Minimum Speed Indeedee-F, Iron Ball Minimum Speed Rillaboom
85	Min Speed Ting-Lu		170
96	Bulky Amoonguss		192
126	Bulky Ting-Lu		252
136	Bulky Azumarill, Bulky Iron Hands, Bulky Sableye, Bulky Chansey		272
148	Minimum Speed Hoopa-Unbound, Minimum Speed Regidrago
156	Bulky Farigiraf, Bulky Grimmsnarl		312
157	Minimum Speed Indeedee-F, Minimum Speed Rillaboom, Minimum Speed Cresselia
158	Bulky Tyranitar		316
166	Bulky Scizor, Bulky Pelipper, Minimum Speed Deoxys-D		332
176	Bulky Wo-Chien		352
177	Minimum Speed Mimikyu
196	Bulky Dragonite, Bulky Hoopa-Unbound, Bulky Regidrago, Bulky Okidogi
204	Bulky Gholdengo
206	Bulky Indeedee-F, Bulky Rillaboom, Bulky Cresselia, Bulky Kommo-o		412
216	Bulky Annihilape, Bulky Arcanine-H, Bulky Moltres-G, Bulky Deoxys-D
218	Bulky Landorus-Therian, Bulky Gouging Fire		436
228	Bulky Mimikyu
232	Bulky Iron Crown
237	Bulky Annihilape		432
249	Fast Armarouge		498
256	Bulky Ogerpons
259	Fast Dragonite, Fast Hoopa-Unbound, Fast Regidrago, Fast Okidogi		518
267	Fast Gholdengo
269	Fast Rillaboom, Fast Kommo-o
273	Max Speed Armarouge, Fast Great Tusk		546
275	Fast Excadrill, Fast Pecharunt
279	Fast Annihilape, Fast Arcanine-H, Fast Moltres-G, Fast Deoxys-D		558
281	Fast Landorus-Therian, Fast Gouging Fire
284	Max Speed Dragonite, Max Speed Hoopa-Unbound, Max Speed Regidrago, Max Speed Okidogi		568
291	Fast Mimikyu
293	Max Speed Gholdengo		586
295	Fast Iron Crown, Max Speed Rillaboom, Max Speed Kommo-o
301	Fast Landorus-I
302	Max Speed Excadrill, Max Speed Pecharunt
306	Max Speed Annihilape, Max Speed Arcanine-H, Max Speed Moltres-G, Max Speed Deoxys-D		612
309	Fast Lilligant-H, Max Speed Landorus-Therian, Max Speed Gouging Fire		618
311	Fast Iron Treads
317	Max Speed Arcanine, Fast Ninetales-A, Fast Walking Wake, Max Speed Kyurem, Max Speed Kyurem-Black, Max Speed Indeedee-M		634
319	Fast Ogerpons
320	Max Speed Mimikyu
321	Fast Tornadus, Fast Scream Tail
324	Max Speed Iron Crown
328	Max Speed Volcarona, Max Speed Mew, Max Speed Zapdos, Max Speed Zapdos-G, Max Speed Entei, Max Speed Ninetales, Max Speed Tauros-Paldea		656
331	Max Speed Landorus-I, Fast Iron Valiant		662
337	Fast Roaring Moon, Fast Cinderace		674
339	Fast Sneasler, Max Speed Lilligant		678
342	Max Speed Iron Treads
348	Max Speed Walking Wake, Max Speed Ninetales-A
350	Max Speed Ogerpons, Max Speed Iron Moth		700
351	Fast Talonflame		702
353	Max Speed Tornadus, Max Speed Maushold, Fast Shaymin-Sky, Max Speed Scream Tail		706
364	Max Speed Iron Valiant		728
369	Fast Flutter Mane, Fast Chien-Pao		738
370	Max Speed Roaring Moon, Max Speed Cinderace		740
371	Fast Iron Bundle, Fast Barraskewda		742
372	Max Speed Sneasler
386	Max Speed Talonflame		772
388	Max Speed Shaymin-Sky
405	Max Speed Flutter Mane, Max Speed Chien-Pao		810
408	Max Speed Iron Bundle, Max Speed Barraskewda		816
421	Max Speed Dragapult		842
439	Scarf Max Speed Gholdengo		879
481	Energy Boosted Fast Scream Tail		-
525	Energy Boosted Max Speed Iron Moth		-
529	Energy Boosted Max Speed Scream Tail		-
546	Energy Boosted Max Speed Iron Valiant		-
555	Energy Boosted Max Speed Roaring Moon		-
607	Energy Boosted Max Speed Flutter Mane		-
612	Energy Boosted Max Speed Iron Bundle, Sun Boosted Max Speed Lilligant		-

Huge shoutout to glitched for the previous formatting

 

[sheepie]

Ogerpon Cornerstone --> S Tier
Must say I have no credibility except for getting to 5th on ladder within the 2 days of starting the tier (its so dead tho ;-;), the tier is fun af but Ogerpon-C is absurdly strong (incin is a problem but as a truly skilled player I crit all my ivy cudgels). Also adrenaline orb defiant torn is evil.

 

[crow crumbs]

Dropping my pvr before UMPL starts. Tiers are more or less ordered.

While sv has genuinely unprecedented centralization, I think the meta is in a great spot and the tier is dynamic to prep. Everything down to Diancie is something that I think can be consistently powerful in the right structure.

Scattered Meta Thoughts:

• Hoopa is one of the most centralizing mons in the tier, probably more than hands. Hoopa+indeedee is pretty 1 dimensional but you really need to spend a lot of time considering how your mons can interact together to not just lose to it. (or just run chien-pao :P)
  • Hoopa focus blast is also the main reason incin feels so bad to use in this gen, you need to run like super spdef chople to not be dead weight in the matchup you are supposed to autowin(!!)
• Both lunas are really underrated. they do so much damage and, while obviously work well with tr, partner very nicely with torn too.
• I really think people strongly overrate bolt and kyub. It feels like all the work you do in the builder with them is just to not have outright losing interactions. They have a place but their main role is to punish the anti-mega things your opp might bring but like- the meta mons are so broken you can just do that with them.

 

[jlee1bro]

I'm afraid of dropping another unofficial team banger and geeking over it again but here I go.
https://pokepast.es/744bfecec082400f
Getting up to 1300-1400 elo with this team before changing it is easy. Before I explain this team, I'm gonna explain why sableye over grimsnarl. First, it isn't even for screens, sableye is a better screen setter than grimsnarl anyways but that's not the main point but I still have light screen because i think its cool. The main reason is because sableye has skill swap to carry its ability and is immune to fake out giving it an extra item slot for mental herb instead of clovert cloak. Leading with torcoal and liligant is easy, land sleep and hope it hits then win. the other lead mew and sableye, first turn fakeout imprision. next turn priority skill swap and transform, permanently stealing their mon. this lead is only guaranteed when the opponent has a one sided partner than the other. I decided to pair sableye mew with Torcoal liligant because of their synergy on team leads. The reason is because Torcoal is helpless against fire and water type leads, which I can transform into the water type.
an unusual lead I go is liligant sableye for priority sleep powder and small backup with lightscreen but I only do that once in every ten games
wait DID I JUST REVEAL MY TEAM AGAIN DONT PRESS POS-
(edit: damn it wrong nature for liligant but its fixed now but I still feel like a bum for editing the message)

 

[Hugo]

I'm afraid of dropping another unofficial team banger and geeking over it again but here I go.
https://pokepast.es/ee344eaed5015f19
Getting up to 1300-1400 elo with this team before changing it is easy. Before I explain this team, I'm gonna explain why sableye over grimsnarl. First, it isn't even for screens, sableye is a better screen setter than grimsnarl anyways but that's not the main point but I still have light screen because i think its cool. The main reason is because sableye has skill swap to carry its ability and is immune to fake out giving it an extra item slot for mental herb instead of clovert cloak. Leading with torcoal and liligant is easy, land sleep and hope it hits then win. the other lead mew and sableye, first turn fakeout imprision. next turn priority skill swap and transform, permanently stealing their mon. this lead is only guaranteed when the opponent has a one sided partner than the other. I decided to pair sableye mew with Torcoal liligant because of their synergy on team leads. The reason is because Torcoal is helpless against fire and water type leads, which I can transform into the water type.
an unusual lead I go is liligant sableye for priority sleep powder and small backup with lightscreen but I only do that once in every ten games
wait DID I JUST REVEAL MY TEAM AGAIN DONT PRESS POS-

what a banger indeed, keep geeking brother

 

[fake tom numbers]

New vr yay

New VR

S
Flutter Mane
Indeedee-F
Iron Hands
S-
Gouging Fire
Ogerpon-Wellspring
A+
Chien-Pao
Kyurem-Black
Tornadus
A
Archaludon
Cresselia
Hoopa-Unbound
Iron Bundle
Landorus
Metagross
Ogerpon-Cornerstone
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Volcanion
A-
Annihilape
Corviknight
Gholdengo
Incineroar
Iron Crown
Landorus-Therian
Regidrago
Rillaboom
Terapagos
Ursaluna
B+
Arcanine
Diancie
Goodra-Hisui
Iron Treads
Raging Bolt
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
B
Mew
Necrozma
Sneasler
Talonflame
Ting-Lu
Torkoal
Walking Wake
B-
Deoxys
Heatran
Porygon2
C+
Deoxys-Defense
Excadrill
Lilligant-Hisui
Mimikyu
Ninetales-Alola
Roaring Moon
Shaymin-Sky
Whimsicott
Zapdos-Galar
C
Amoonguss
Darkrai
Iron Boulder
Iron Valiant
Kingambit
Moltres-Galar
Pelipper
Sinistcha
Volcarona
C-
Arcanine-Hisui
Baxcalibur
Great Tusk
Pecharunt
Primarina
Scizor
D
Armarouge
Azumarill
Cinderace
Dragapult
Enamorus
Entei
Farigiraf
Iron Moth
Manaphy
Maushold
Sableye
Thundurus
Tinkaton
Tyranitar
Weezing-Galar
Zapdos
Zarude

Rises

Annihilape from B+ to A-
Armarouge from UR to D
Azumarill from UR to D
Cresselia from A- to A
Dragapult from UR to D
Gouging Fire from A+ to S-
Heatran from C+ to B-
Hoopa-Unbound from A- to A
Lilligant-Hisui from C to C+
Mimikyu from C to C+
Ninetales-Alola from C to C+
Ogerpon-Hearthflame from A- to A
Shaymin-Sky from we-forgot-this-guy-existed to C+
Sinistcha from D to C
Talonflame from B- to B
Ting-Lu from C+ to B
Tinkaton from UR to D
Primarina from UR to C-
Pecharunt from UR to C-
Zarude from UR to D

Drops

Amoonguss from B- to C
Arcanine-Hisui from C+ to C-
Baxcalibur from C to C-
Cinderace from C to D
Darkrai from B- to C
Entei from C to D
Excadrill from B- to C+
Gholdengo from A to A-
Goodra-Hisui from A- to B+
Great Tusk from C to C-
Hatterene from D to UR
Indeedee-M from D to UR
Iron Boulder from B- to C
Iron Bundle from A+ to A
Iron Crown from A to A-
Iron Moth from C- to D
Iron Treads from A- to B+
Iron Valiant from C+ to C
Kingambit from B- to C
Kingdra from C- to UR
Kommo-o from C- to UR
Manaphy from C to D
Maushould from C- to D
Metagross from A+ to A
Moltres-Galar from C+ to C
Ogerpon-Cornerstone from A+ to A
Pelipper from C+ to C
Porygon2 from B to B-
Raging Bolt from A- to B+
Regieleki from D to UR
Roaring Moon from B- to C+
Sneasler from B+ to B
Tauros-Paldea-Blaze from D to UR
Tornadus from S- to A+
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon from A- to B+
Volcarona from C+ to C
Walking Wake from A- to B
Whimsicott from B to C+
Zapdos Galar from B- to C+

Also ancient news but crow crumbs and fake tom numbers are now part of sv vr council

 

[sheepie]

My personal VR
Notes:
OMFG I FORGOT HANDS WTF ITS S (ty valerie)
Lando t is B tier
Oger C and S are S tier
Oger H is A tier
Hoopa is meant to be hoopa u
Oger T is F tier
KyuB is B tier, Kyu regular is unranked
(I was using an all fully evolved regular form tier list and am lazy af)
D tier is mostly shit I could see working or stuff I find criminally overrated. A lot of stuff is missing and usually means i don't know enough abt it to judge rlly.

 

[ValiantValerie]

S
A+
A
A-
B+
B

Decided to drop a personal as well, A- and above are mostly ordered :D

Feel free to AMA but I'll be briefly going over the main differences from the VR:
Kyurem-Black - I think crow crumbs described it well, feels like you're putting a lot of effort and only getting mediocre reward. Because of this it's pretty much never my first consideration on a team and feel like a lot of teams improve by making it a Chien-Pao, far more consistent at what it does.
Talonflame - I think it and Tornadus are a lot closer than people say, Quick Guard and Flare Blitz are lovely tools, also Wisp letting your partner win a handful of interactions. Also being a physical attacker is probably better here, lets you threaten Flutter Mane and Hoopa so much more.
Landorus - This isn't significant but seems like everyone agrees Landorus-I is better which I have a hard time understanding. See above about points to being a physical attacker, and Intimidate is really nice support into Iron Hands and Ogerpons. This has resulted in me putting Landorus-T on a lot of teams and I haven't regretted it one bit <3

 

[sheepie]

First on ladder nice, ladder is very reflective of skill and not at all cooked, I will do team drop once i go undrafted in UMPL. This tier is super fun and I'd love to play more of it, particularly at a high level. Eleki underrated. Ogerpon-C S tier.

 

[Kry]

You may have noticed some new threads in the forum. I've split up most of the resources into their own seperate threads, and this thread will now focus on metagame discussion.

 

[bring it on]

First on ladder is nice, esp, Nah I wont copy sheepie no 1 on ladder part, but yeah, This format is very cool, but the lader sucks, its so dead half of the time, would love if get more attention, Anyways hopefully this increases my odd for getting drafted at umfl, will send team report after I go undrafted in umfl. WE WIN THESE, but yeah the meta is really cool. Anyways now time to grind alts and get them also high on ladder.

 

[sheepie]

UMPL TEAM DUMP TIME!!!! I've been wanting to do this for a while, was a really fun tour and I love this tier a lot, looking forward to being more involved in it whenever possible, and ty to everyone who helped me prep / practice. This is gonna be a mix of teams that help me reach 1730 on ladder, teams I used in umpl, and random bullshit from my builder. I've sorta sorted it into 3 categories, my fav teams, ones that are very consistent and that I would recommend to anyone, pretty decent teams; ones that I would bring in umpl, but that aren't perfect / could be refined further / I don't love too much, and then the concerning ones that might be funny, might be hot garbage (almost without fail the latter).
1. Fav Teams

this is the team that got me to the ladder peak, its just solid offense, scizor is a really strong mon into a lot of the meta and the psyspam mu is pretty much unloseable unless they have iron crown (even then), there's nothing special about this team but it has the tools for pretty much anything you throw at it and is insanely consistent into a large majority of the meta (gouging doesn't exist + ivy cudgel crit if real, but yeah gouging is not fun)


Banded Rillaboom does stupid damage, feint sneasler is always neat, pao enables the two whilst handling a lot of bullshit, lando i does lando i things, just a goodmons team with a few neat techs for certain mus.


Fake tears flutter enables two of the most insanely dangerous specila threats in the tier in lando and specs pagos (both super underrated btw), otherwise pretty self explanatory and very dangerous if your opponent isn't prepared (tho ting lu + intim / hands can kinda cook you)


SD hands is really underrated, howl gouging is nice for enabling both the other offensive threats and charm split flutter is quite broken, this team takes a couple turns to get into position then absolutely ruins whatever is in its way from there. (another version has av hands and sd rockpon which is also cool)


Another sd hands team, but this time with helping hand earthquake to randomly clear the field, and bandorus is a really cool set that can reach a lot of funny calcs whilst enabling the other mons on the team, this is very much centred around hands but has other potential combos


standard dd kyurem black team, the mon is powerful as fuck and the rest of the team allows for it to clean the board with ease whilst being powerful in themselves.


a pretty standard physically offensive core with the stupid strong arcanine hisui, helping hand allows for a neat ohko on flutter with sucker whilst otherwise it just hits insanely hard whilst slowly other physical attackers.




2. Other good shit
those are my fav teams prolly, tho there are a lot of following teams that could easily be there, but now we have a mixture of good but boring stuff and really fun stuff that's a little off the wall, I will only do write ups for these if there's a specific tech I wanna explain.


very standard looking team but ruination av pao allows for each of the other mons to reach stupid koes whilst winning the 1v1 against flutter and a few other foes that can otherwise be problematic.


regieleki hits stupidly hard particularly wiht helping hand, its a very underrated and overall solid mon in the tier I feel.


priority bug stab goes brrr in the pao ogerpon tier, tinkaton fucks over fultter and psyspam and mimikyu and pao and whatever, feint and fake out is absolutely evil in this tier, both mons are underrated.



(tclap after fake tears ohkos flutter)

I love mbeam and fake tears, okay??

(idk what i was on but it worked (also keldeo version is cool asw))

3 underrated ass mons

special offense at its least sane (prolly go encore)





more fake tears + pagos gaming but this time with a random ass pao



fake out is for landorus forms and talon



this looks awful but somewhat works







3. What was he cooking??? here is pretty much the rest of my builder, in all its awful glory. Most of these are legitimately between pretty good and amazing in practice but I cannot in good faith encourage anyone with half a brain to try them, the rest are too awful for words. (I may update with sprites eventually )

The depths of the builder

https://pokepast.es/0e41fff83ba678eb
https://pokepast.es/c53c3064e64a93d2
https://pokepast.es/e8cf9d21624ba8c0
https://pokepast.es/11f3148510c7a535
https://pokepast.es/86e0c7effae72849
https://pokepast.es/fd4da084262ab08e
https://pokepast.es/37ac3af77178c81d
https://pokepast.es/749f4b29d73b3d1f
https://pokepast.es/d5f735677b0db1c3
https://pokepast.es/402cb05049a2b746
https://pokepast.es/b5f9fc39bbdf9f88
https://pokepast.es/bfa83fd701525d69
https://pokepast.es/58c4af7bb7ab17f5
https://pokepast.es/8dcd7d0e5e09bd13
https://pokepast.es/a0b2a0e438df6248
https://pokepast.es/75cae79628207c9f

4. Thanks and meta thoughts:

First off, thank you to my goat managers for drafting me for umpl, even if the season didn't exactly go as planned, it was really fun and a great time, and I'm overall happy with how I performed and built over the season, and look forward to hopefully getting another crack at 2v2 in future team tours. Then onto the meta as a whole, flutter and hands are broken and tier warping beyond belief, I think both should go and the tier would be a better place, they have a stranglehold on what is viable and force such specific countermeasures to not to lose them that it makes building a lot more difficult and specific. Gouging fire is also verging on too powerful I feel, it invalidates every physical attacker in the tier on preview, ahs a lot of versatility and speed creeps a lot of shit, it feels pretty unhealthy however I think flutter and/or hands should go first. Then psyspam, its quite a central part of the tier and very powerful, but I'm unsure if its fully broken, it feels a lot more powerful in paper then in practice, that being said i would be supportive of tiering action on it. I think that this tier kinda needs a lot of action or none at all, as removing any of the key pieces of the meta, even if they are unbalanced, will cause a lot of the stability to come crashing down, but I am leaning towards a lot of action as I find a lot of the time the tier feels stale and centralised around a very select few mons.

 

[bring it on]

Welp, I am also out of umfl at this point, and I didn't use many teams, because I was goated, but yeah, I will still follow this format cause it's so fun and hopefully become a known member of this, I mean I am the 2v2 goat so yeah. Thanks for this amazing opportunity, thanks Bernardo to draft me and also I had a decent draft war so yeah this was a amazing opportunity and I plan to keep on succeeding in 2v2. I don't have again many teams so would not do a team dump just yet. But next year we aim for umpl and win it all. Would love to be part of this tier more.

PS: - Flutter and Hands are super strong, but not ban worthy, they bring centralization. And without them tier is going to be full of random low ladder shit, so they need to exist. Psyspam might be bit broken but welp difficult to use also so last its fine and should remain. But don't touch flutter mane or iron hands at all.