Metagame Frantic Fusions | Survey @ Post #484!

Shoutout to my number one boy Slither wing, truly my MVP of this month.

slitherwing.jpeg


The only crime that overshadows my beautiful boy being placed in B rank, is the warcrimes he commits on a daily basis on the ladder.

Slither Wing is imo the best wallbreaker in the tier and deserves a spot in high A, maybe even higher than that. If you haven't tried it yourself, then I'm sure you've been in the uncomfortable position of trying to switch into this thing. With Tough Clays from :Lycanroc-Dusk: or Tinted Lens from :Lokix: Slither Wing is great on both balance, offence and HO. It's also amazing versus offence and balance. It's never dead weight on your team. While it's not difficult to revenge kill, it can break through mosts defensive cores and revenge kill with First Impression.

Most of the time it just clicks Close Combat, U-turn or First Impression - these three are pretty much given. Bug + Fighting coverage is resist by ghost, fairy, poison and flying though. However, your last slot can use one of its coverage options to overcome this.

End the disrespect and put my boy in A rank, atleast.

:lycanroc-dusk: (Slither Wing) @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz/Earthquake/Wild Charge

The counters:
Pecharunt is probably the best answers out there, but it needs Tablets of Ruin to truly counter, which is a downgrade to Fluffy/Earth Eater imo
:Pecharunt: Fluffy: Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 196-232 (51.5 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:Pecharunt: Earth Eater: Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 146-172 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
:Pecharunt: Tablets of Ruin: Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Pecharunt: 148-176 (38.9 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Zapdos is another good option, but with rocks up it's vulnerable. Technically a counter
:Zapdos: Fluffy: Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Fluffy Zapdos: 226-266 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:Zapdos: ToR: Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Tablets of Ruin Zapdos: 170-200 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
:Zapdos: Intimidate: -1 Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 147-174 (38.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Moltres is the best counter out there, though without HDBs you're in trouble.
:Moltres: Fluffy: Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Fluffy Moltres: 109-128 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
:Moltres: Intimidate: -1 Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Moltres: 107-126 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Soft counters and checks depending on set(s):
Corviknight is a check at best, but it handles Tinted Lens better. Fluffy, ToR, Intimidate etc are all OHKOd or 2HKOd by Flare blitz
:Corviknight: Well-Baked Body: Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 294-346 (73.5 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:Skarmory: is in the same situation as Corviknight
:Gholdengo: easily 2HKOd by either Earthquake or Flare Blitz
:Primarina: Archaludon Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 172-203 (47.2 - 55.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
:Great Tusk: Klawf Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 258-304 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
:Skeledirge: Levitate is very niche, but: Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 148-175 (36 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
:Clodsire: ToR: Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Clodsire: 258-304 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Replays:
1. Skip to turn 36 for the action
2. Once Iron Hands fell Slither Wing cleans
3. Turn 13 and 26 breakthroughs versus veil HO
 
You are definitely overrating Slither Wing. Choice Banded Slither Wing can easily be predicted with Wish Pokemon such as Alomomola and is limited by its 8 PP for Close Combat.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Alomomola: 173-204 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- 97% chance to 3HKO (Earthquake does less)
 
Shoutout to my number one boy Slither wing, truly my MVP of this month.

View attachment 652536

The only crime that overshadows my beautiful boy being placed in B rank, is the warcrimes he commits on a daily basis on the ladder.

Slither Wing is imo the best wallbreaker in the tier and deserves a spot in high A, maybe even higher than that. If you haven't tried it yourself, then I'm sure you've been in the uncomfortable position of trying to switch into this thing. With Tough Clays from :Lycanroc-Dusk: or Tinted Lens from :Lokix: Slither Wing is great on both balance, offence and HO. It's also amazing versus offence and balance. It's never dead weight on your team. While it's not difficult to revenge kill, it can break through mosts defensive cores and revenge kill with First Impression.

Most of the time it just clicks Close Combat, U-turn or First Impression - these three are pretty much given. Bug + Fighting coverage is resist by ghost, fairy, poison and flying though. However, your last slot can use one of its coverage options to overcome this.

End the disrespect and put my boy in A rank, atleast.

:lycanroc-dusk: (Slither Wing) @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz/Earthquake/Wild Charge

The counters:
Pecharunt is probably the best answers out there, but it needs Tablets of Ruin to truly counter, which is a downgrade to Fluffy/Earth Eater imo
:Pecharunt: Fluffy: Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 196-232 (51.5 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:Pecharunt: Earth Eater: Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 146-172 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
:Pecharunt: Tablets of Ruin: Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Pecharunt: 148-176 (38.9 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Zapdos is another good option, but with rocks up it's vulnerable. Technically a counter
:Zapdos: Fluffy: Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Fluffy Zapdos: 226-266 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:Zapdos: ToR: Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Tablets of Ruin Zapdos: 170-200 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
:Zapdos: Intimidate: -1 Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 147-174 (38.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Moltres is the best counter out there, though without HDBs you're in trouble.
:Moltres: Fluffy: Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Fluffy Moltres: 109-128 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
:Moltres: Intimidate: -1 Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Moltres: 107-126 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Soft counters and checks depending on set(s):
Corviknight is a check at best, but it handles Tinted Lens better. Fluffy, ToR, Intimidate etc are all OHKOd or 2HKOd by Flare blitz
:Corviknight: Well-Baked Body: Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 294-346 (73.5 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:Skarmory: is in the same situation as Corviknight
:Gholdengo: easily 2HKOd by either Earthquake or Flare Blitz
:Primarina: Archaludon Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 172-203 (47.2 - 55.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
:Great Tusk: Klawf Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 258-304 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
:Skeledirge: Levitate is very niche, but: Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 148-175 (36 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
:Clodsire: ToR: Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Clodsire: 258-304 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Replays:
1. Skip to turn 36 for the action
2. Once Iron Hands fell Slither Wing cleans
3. Turn 13 and 26 breakthroughs versus veil HO
What is ToR?
 
Now that the month is ending, I want to explain my triple Regen stall team.
https://pokepast.es/bc5a048f5661f581
Screenshot 2024-07-28 222747.png


:great tusk:This is one of the few stall teams I have built that uses hazards. This set is very self-explanatory except for Earthquake over Knock Off. Earthquake is necessary to deal damage vs Pecharunt and OHKO Cinderace.

:alomomola:Alomomola is physically the bulkiest Pokemon on my team with Fluffy. I chose this over a Regirock fusion mainly as a backup to Great Tusk and a counter to the numerous Choice Banded HO Pokemon I regularly face.

:goodra-hisui::meloetta: Goodra-Hisui and Meloetta are both the bulkiest special Pokemon with Slowking and Glowking fusions. They both serve the same function as RegenVesters with Knock Off, although Meloetta is a pivot and Goodra-Hisui is a phazer. Heavy Slam is for dealing with Fairies such as Clefable and Scream Tail, and Psyshock instead of Psychic on Meloetta to deal with Fairy Calm Mind sweepers that are neutral to Steel, such as Primarina.

:umbreon:Umbreon is arguably the best Hatterene fusion because of its mixed defenses and few weaknesses. The only Pokemon it really struggles with is Skarmory IronPress. Foul Play allows it to OHKO Pokemon that think they can set up on Umbreon. Corviknight takes massive damage from hazard setters using Volt Switch.

:Pecharunt:Pecharunt is my Unaware Pokemon for dealing with Ogerpon-Cornerstone, Iron Hands, Zapdos-Galar, etc. It is itemless to defeat Ceruledge (no idea how common it is) and does not run Parting Shot in order to use Toxic. Pecharunt serves as a backup for Goodra-Hisui and Meloetta to deal with Calm Mind Fairy setup sweepers.

I genuinely believe that this is the limit to stall, since it sometimes loses to lower ladder hazard spam stall (which loses to HO) and sometimes to balance hazards. It obviously loses to most physical Mold Breaker Pokemon (as all stall teams do). Replacing any Pokemon for more offensive ones means losing to certain HO Pokemon or sacrificing bulk/type advantages.

300-turn draw
 
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Shoutout to my number one boy Slither wing, truly my MVP of this month.

View attachment 652536
I'm a slither wing enjoyer myself but the fact it gets hyperwalled by levitate pecharunt or levitate ghold is the reason why its B. If it had a physical contact dark move it'd easily be a lot better. Throat chop is 104 with TC and x2 is 208. This is better than neutral flare blitz and worse than high horse power. 156 and 123 (246) respectively. IMO way better to just run high horsepower as TC CB adamant close combat can just power through its soft checks and you really don't need flare blitz, and its better to be able to hit the non levitate pecharunts or gholds without recoil. Especially the former.
 
i want to understand this, but am noob..
The first pokemon is receiving the stats and abilities from the second. /fuse Raging Bolt, Slowking-Galar result
If you're asking about how it works, rename the pokemon in the builder to the pokemon you want, Raging Bolt named Slowking-Galar. It receives 25% of the stats (besides HP) from the donator. Easiest way to see this is fusing a six 100s pokemon onto another (mew, jirachi). It also gets the abilities, but no moves.
1739390592379.png
 
Here's something I think will end up being broken.

:sv/maushold-four:
Basculegion (Maushold-Four) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Tidy Up
- Low Kick
- Crunch

New Stats (hope I calced right): 104/103/86/85/93/130

With the attack boost and a tidy up or two Population Bomb should annihilate just about any neutral target and even give resists a hard time. Low Kick is for steels, crunch for fightings, and tidy up to boost damage and take advantage of its new speed stat. Tera Normal is just bc I didn't know what else to put, you could play around with it to hit whatever threats become relevant once the meta develops.

Edit: The whole point of using basc was for adapt but since technician is better anyway you're better off using something stronger and faster like bax.
crunch for fighting types? or for ghosts
 
Porygon-Z (Latios) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Dragons Maw
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Luster Purge
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
Torkoal (Cinderace) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Electric
EVs 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sword Dance
- Pyroball
- Sucker Punch
- U-Turn
Daschbun (Iron Crown) @ Leftovers
Ability: Well Baked Body
Tera Type: Electric
EVs 54HP/200/252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Agility
-Calm Mind
-Tachyon Cutter
-Stored Power

Kleavor (Iron Leaves) @ Twisted Spoon
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs 252 Atk/ 252 HP/ 4 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Psyblade
-Sacred Sword
-Agility
-Leaf Blade

Pinchurchin (Raging Bolt) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rising Voltage
- Thunderclap
- Dragon Pulse

Goodra-Hisui (Swampert) Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252HP/ 252 Def / 4 SpA
-Flip Turn
-Earthquake
-Liquidation
-Mud-Slap

Rate this team out of ten and give me advice on how to improve it. Thanks!
 
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has anyone considered:

Jirachi (Decidueye Hisui) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
-Triple Arrows
-Air Slash
-U-turn
-poltergeist/haze if silly role compression

feels sorta goofy especially on webs cuz it isnt fast even scarfed
only really limited by difficulty in hitting ghosts (could minds eye) and triple arrows 16 pp

I know paraflinch noob trap blah blah but this set feels not bad :3
 
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Porygon-Z (Latios) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Dragons Maw
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Luster Purge
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
Torkoal (Cinderace) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Electric
EVs 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sword Dance
- Pyroball
- Sucker Punch
- U-Turn
Daschbun (Iron Crown) @ Leftovers
Ability: Well Baked Body
Tera Type: Electric
EVs 54HP/200/252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Agility
-Calm Mind
-Tachyon Cutter
-Stored Power

Kleavor (Iron Leaves) @ Twisted Spoon
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs 252 Atk/ 252 HP/ 4 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Psyblade
-Sacred Sword
-Agility
-Leaf Blade

Pinchurchin (Raging Bolt) @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rising Voltage
- Thunderclap
- Dragon Pulse

Goodra-Hisui (Swampert) Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252HP/ 252 Def / 4 SpA
-Flip Turn
-Earthquake
-Liquidation
-Mud-Slap

Rate this team out of ten and give me advice on how to improve it. Thanks!
im new to the tier (balanced hackmons main) but 3/10
random offensive threats with 4 coverage moves, no recovery, mostly slow mons with no speed control for HO, etc

if you want to play Hyperoffense you will need hazard support and less random mons- try to create syngergies. for example, in addition to electric terrain bolt, maybe use a quark drive mon (ideally speed booster). same for drought ace, could add a protosynthesis mon.

Id reccommend looking at the vr and setpedia and starting from there, and playing a few games with stolen teams to get a feel for the metagame before building could never hurt
 
has anyone considered:

Jirachi (Decidueye Hisui) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
-Triple Arrows
-Air Slash
-U-turn
-poltergeist/haze if silly role compression

feels sorta goofy especially on webs cuz it isnt fast even scarfed
only really limited by difficulty in hitting ghosts (could minds eye) and triple arrows 16 pp

I know paraflinch noob trap blah blah but this set feels not bad :3
Except it is bad because it heavily relies on Triple Arrows as its main attacking option, making it easy fodder for Pokemon such as Gholdengo and Pecharunt. I don't see what role this Pokemon fills on a team when much better wallbreakers exist.
 
Klefki (Swalot) @ Black Sludge/Mental Herb
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Encore
- Destiny Bond
- Pain Split

Not sure if anyone's posted this yet, but it basically does what Mega Banette does, but arguably better.
 
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I really wish this metagame had proper support in teambuilder. Like it could work like how infinite fusion teambuilder works and when you select a pokemon you can also select another to fuse them. But due to the nature of smogon and showdown itself it will probably be impossible to do so without breaking things.
 
im new to the tier (balanced hackmons main) but 3/10
random offensive threats with 4 coverage moves, no recovery, mostly slow mons with no speed control for HO, etc

if you want to play Hyperoffense you will need hazard support and less random mons- try to create syngergies. for example, in addition to electric terrain bolt, maybe use a quark drive mon (ideally speed booster). same for drought ace, could add a protosynthesis mon.

Id reccommend looking at the vr and setpedia and starting from there, and playing a few games with stolen teams to get a feel for the metagame before building could never hurt
Tornadus-Therian (Corviknight) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Heavy Slam

Reuniclus (Electrode-Hisui) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Chloroblast
- Thunderbolt
- Giga Drain
- Volt Switch

Iron Hands (Cinderace) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch

Pincurchin (Raging Bolt) @ Haban Berry
Ability: Electric Surge
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Rising Voltage
- Volt Switch
- Thunderclap

Raichu-Alola (Iron Hands) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Surge Surfer
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Supercell Slam

Grimsnarl (Gliscor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Spikes
- Toxic

is this better?
unrelated but i main natdex monot
 
Is there any chance of an ability clause happening? I’m just looking into the future and expecting teams with 4 regen mons making the meta unfun.
Good luck this is Frantics 3rd time being OMoTM and despite players requesting an ability clause every iteration there's always some case being argued about the meta being "healthy" as is.

Pecharunt drives the nail in the coffin of this argument for me. 70% of my games I face 3-4 regen(vest on half) mons, pecha and or corv and sometimes some HO breaker. Matches just are players dancing around with regen mons, setting hazards and chipping or knocking till their HO mon can breakthrough. Sure it is fine that there's an OM where stall and very BULKY balance actually performs well but it's currently not a fun ladder especially for beginners.
 
Good luck this is Frantics 3rd time being OMoTM and despite players requesting an ability clause every iteration there's always some case being argued about the meta being "healthy" as is.

Pecharunt drives the nail in the coffin of this argument for me. 70% of my games I face 3-4 regen(vest on half) mons, pecha and or corv and sometimes some HO breaker. Matches just are players dancing around with regen mons, setting hazards and chipping or knocking till their HO mon can breakthrough. Sure it is fine that there's an OM where stall and very BULKY balance actually performs well but it's currently not a fun ladder especially for beginners.
Almost like giving everything (especially some already bulky mons like Corviknight and AV Swampert), access to increased Bulk + REGENERATOR makes for an unfun metagame!

Which hurts because this meta has a LOT of potential, but it's being killed by how over centralizing Regenerator is. It's too stifling on teambuilder since you have to account for it or you're screwed, and you have to use it yourself if you want any chance of outlasting your opponent's regenerators.

IMO there are 3 different ways to make this ladder better (in order of what I think would be appropriate).

1: 2AC Clause: This instantly kills a lot of the heavy Regen spam. Without fully kneecapping Balance. Also makes it easier to teambuild around Regen cores since you don't have to account for as many of them being on one team. This also allows you to have a Regen core yourself while still leaving room on the rest of the team for breakers and other forms of support.

2: Unban some offensive threats: This doesn't FULLY kill Regen spam, but it does make it easier to break through said teams. Only question is what do you unban without screwing up the rest of the meta? Kyurem? Ogerpon Wellspring / Hearthflame? Annihilape?

3: Ban Regenerator outright: Technically this would deal with the issue of Regenerator spam... by outright killing Regen as a concept in this meta. But at the same time. This would be a massive shift for the meta, which could lead to things becoming very chaotic very fast, with plenty of bans and unbans to go around, so I'm not sure if this would actually be the healthiest course of action.

My preference would be the implementation of 2AC Clause, I think simply limiting Regen this way would do a lot to help bring the meta to a more fun place overall, and help increase teambuilding creativity since you won't need to make sure you have multiple mons capable of breaking through these bulky Regen cores. You also won't have to risk unbanning something only for it to be an unhealthy presence in the meta, or go as far as to outright ban Regenerator and throw the meta into total disarray (at least, until Regen possibly proves to still be unhealthy despite the new restrictions).

Still, one time being OMotM and running into people complaining about Regenerator can be chalked up to players being stubborn and not wanting to switch to a slower playstyle. Two times being OMotM and running into Regenerator complaints / requests for an ability clause is where you should maybe start being concerned about Regenerator and maybe take a look at it or a discussion. But three times being OMotM and getting the same complaints & requests for an ability clause because of Regenerator is when you need to take a serious, critical look at Regenerator and its role in the meta instead of just brushing off the criticisms as whining.

If someone is being a jerk, then sure, brush them off. Their not worth the energy anyways. But PLEASE don't just ignore the issue outright. Frantic Fusions has a lot of potential, and is a really fun concept, but Regenerator is, and will continue to be an issue until it either gets restricted or outright banned.
 
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