Resource NU Viability Rankings

[emikatana]

Two questions really:

1. Why exactly did pretty much every hazard remover that isn't Cinccino drop? I was thinking maybe Bramble, Tsar, and Tentacruel could have niches on more offensive structures as hazard control but it seems Cinccino simply outclasses them at this role and I'm not sure why.

I would agree that Tsareena is the best hazard removal outside of Cinccino, it has very real bulk and power, and UTurn to pivot, which other options do not.

Diancie could certainly be in S rank right now IMO, it has become a meta staple and is a very versatile and powerful mon.

Regarding Dragalge, it just kinda isn't good enough as a wallbreaker, and all the other defensive Poisons are just better defensively.

 

[Phantomistix]

I would agree that Tsareena is the best hazard removal outside of Cinccino, it has very real bulk and power, and UTurn to pivot, which other options do not.

Diancie could certainly be in S rank right now IMO, it has become a meta staple and is a very versatile and powerful mon.

Regarding Dragalge, it just kinda isn't good enough as a wallbreaker, and all the other defensive Poisons are just better defensively.

Tsareena is 100% the worst removal currently ranked (I'm not counting Avalugg-H as removal).

All the other removal options have something going for them; Altaria can OHKO key pieces with Perish Trap, can wisp, has an amazing defensive profile into Pauros and other top threats, can absorb status. Avalugg is a hard stop to almost all physical threats and can tech setup with IDP or Curse, also synergizes very well with the common mon A9. Sandslash-A has good role compression, a solid defensive profile and offensive profile, especially combined with Snow. Brambleghast is much more offensively threatening than Tsareena with its second STAB, better speed tier and also has a better defensive profile - not weak to U-Turn or Poison moves, and has access to Strength Sap and Leech Seed. Cramorant has an excellent matchup into many top threats and a better speed tier. Tentacruel provides a valuable Fighting resist and disruption with Haze, Knock and Toxic, as well as an excellent speed tier.

Compared to all of these, Tsareena has NOTHING going for it. It's not fast, it doesn't have a strong second STAB, it doesn't provide multiple vabluable resists, it's not bulky compared to the others, especially when you consider its poor typing, it doesn't provide role compression, it doesn't set up, and its only form of disruption is Knock Off. Saying Tsareena is the tier's second best removal is objectively wrong.

Also, Cinccino isn't really hazard removal, but more of a deterrent.

 

[emikatana]

Tsareena is 100% the worst removal currently ranked (I'm not counting Avalugg-H as removal).

All the other removal options have something going for them; Altaria can OHKO with Perish Trap, can wisp, has an amazing defensive profile into Pauros and other top threats. Avalugg is a hard stop to almost all physical threats and can tech setup with IDP or Curse, also synergizes very well with the common mon A9. Sandslash-A has good role compression, a solid defensive profile and offensive profile, especially combined with Snow. Brambleghast is much more offensively threatening than Tsareena with its second STAB, better speed tier and also has a better defensive profile - not weak to U-Turn or Poison moves, and has access to Strength Sap and Leech Seed. Cramorant has an excellent matchup into many top threats and a better speed tier. Tentacruel provides a valuable Fighting resist and disruption with Haze, Knock and Toxic, as well as an excellent speed tier.

Compared to all of these, Tsareena has NOTHING going for it. It's not fast, it doesn't have a strong second STAB, it doesn't provide multiple vabluable resists, it's not bulky compared to the others, especially when you consider its poor typing, it doesn't provide role compression, it doesn't set up, and its only form of disruption is Knock Off. Saying Tsareena is the tier's second best removal is objectively wrong.

Also, Cinccino isn't really hazard removal, but more of a deterrent.

Tsareena can pivot, unlike everything else except Tentacruel. It's the only removal option that isn't a complete momentum sink when it comes in. That alone makes it stand out above all the other options. I do not understand how you can say that Tsareena has nothing going for it.

 

[Phantomistix]

Tsareena can pivot, unlike everything else except Tentacruel. It's the only removal option that isn't a complete momentum sink when it comes in. That alone makes it stand out above all the other options. I do not understand how you can say that Tsareena has nothing going for it.

Saying Tsareena is the only one that isn’t a momentum sink is completely disingenuous.

Avalugg has a better offensive profile with an almost identical atk stat and much better moves between ice STAB, EQ, BP. Nothing in the tier switches in safely bar Swampert and Gastrodon.

Nothing in the tier wants to switch into Altaria - everything but fires hates wisp and the fires don’t want to eat chip from BB. Again, it can also threaten OHKO on everything that can’t muscle through it fast enough or isn’t fire immune.

Sandslash can set its own hazards, set up to break/clean, knock and more.

Nothing in the tier bar Incin, Overqwil and consumed item Klefki, Amoonguss, Slowbro-G can safely switch into Brambleghast, and even Incin and Overqwil still take a very respectable 30% from Polter.

Cramorant can literally do 25% + surf damage + para/def drop with one move, and still does respectable damage with BB too.

None of the above are momentum sinks. A momentum sink is a mon that does very little to threaten the opponent and gives them free turns. I’d argue Tsareena is a bigger sink than all of them.

Tsareena running U-Turn means it drops Knock Off or Synthesis, meaning it has to drop its only useful move after spinning or have zero staying power. More often than not, dropping U-Turn itself is your best bet, in which case you lose your only niche, might as well go use another option.

Something I didn’t mention earlier, the other options all have useful abilities, Tsareena doesn’t. All the good priority users are faster than it anyway, they don’t need to click that priority.

Tsareena has nothing to stand out from the other options, apart from maybe how bad it is compared to the rest of them.

 

[emikatana]

Saying Tsareena is the only one that isn’t a momentum sink is completely disingenuous.

Avalugg has a better offensive profile with an almost identical atk stat and much better moves between ice STAB, EQ, BP. Nothing in the tier switches in safely bar Swampert and Gastrodon.

Nothing in the tier wants to switch into Altaria - everything but fires hates wisp and the fires don’t want to eat chip from BB. Again, it can also threaten OHKO on everything that can’t muscle through it fast enough or isn’t fire immune.

Sandslash can set its own hazards, set up to break/clean, knock and more.

Nothing in the tier bar Incin, Overqwil and consumed item Klefki, Amoonguss, Slowbro-G can safely switch into Brambleghast, and even Incin and Overqwil still take a very respectable 30% from Polter.

Cramorant can literally do 25% + surf damage + para/def drop with one move, and still does respectable damage with BB too.

None of the above are momentum sinks. A momentum sink is a mon that does very little to threaten the opponent and gives them free turns. I’d argue Tsareena is a bigger sink than all of them.

Tsareena running U-Turn means it drops Knock Off or Synthesis, meaning it has to drop its only useful move after spinning or have zero staying power. More often than not, dropping U-Turn itself is your best bet, in which case you lose your only niche, might as well go use another option.

Something I didn’t mention earlier, the other options all have useful abilities, Tsareena doesn’t. All the good priority users are faster than it anyway, they don’t need to click that priority.

Tsareena has nothing to stand out from the other options, apart from maybe how bad it is compared to the rest of them.

Avalugg has frankly fallen off a cliff since the Cetitan ban, and is so incredibly vulnerable to top threats such as Flamigo, Chandelure, and Diancie that it struggles to ever Spin. Sandslash also struggles to remove hazards consistently, with a terrible type matchup into most of the meta and no reliable recovery. Brambleghast and Cramorant both have such incredibly fake bulk that they often struggle to take even resisted hits, giving them little opportunities to come in and remove hazards. Altaria is quite good though, I forgot about that one. While Tsareena's pure Grass typing is not great, it is also not actively negative to the mon, like Sandslash and Avalugg's are.

 

[Phantomistix]

Avalugg has frankly fallen off a cliff since the Cetitan ban, and is so incredibly vulnerable to top threats such as Flamigo, Chandelure, and Diancie that it struggles to ever Spin. Sandslash also struggles to remove hazards consistently, with a terrible type matchup into most of the meta and no reliable recovery. Brambleghast and Cramorant both have such incredibly fake bulk that they often struggle to take even resisted hits, giving them little opportunities to come in and remove hazards. Altaria is quite good though, I forgot about that one. While Tsareena's pure Grass typing is not great, it is also not actively negative to the mon, like Sandslash and Avalugg's are.

It honestly sounds like you don't even play the tier or use the mons you're comparing Tsareena to. Avalugg can threaten 80% on Chandelure with EQ and has no trouble spinning at all in 99% of games. You mention Flamigo as a bad matchup despite the fact that Tsareena takes 1.5x more damage from CC than Avalugg, not to mention the BB and U-Turn weakness. Avalugg has not fallen off a cliff, it's just not optimal on every team any more; that doesn't mean it fell off a cliff. Sandslash-A has no trouble spinning either, given that it can threaten massive chip and item removal with knock off on any ghost that wants to come in. It also doesn't have a "terrible type matchup into most of the meta" - It's a steel type which means it inherently has a good typing into what it wants to switch into - Psychics, Grasses etc. You mention Sandslash not having reliable recovery but neither does Tsareena if it has U-Turn, which you previously mentioned is its best tool. You can't have it both ways - you're either running recovery or pivoting. Arguing like you can run both at the same time just means you drop Knock Off, which then implies that you are the single mon that struggles to spin the most in the tier given you can't touch Ghost types.

Another point in favor of the two Ice Types is their very positive matchup into the tier's premier Rocky Helmet user - Amoonguss. A matchup that needless to say Tsareena hard loses.

Bramble doesn't need to take hits super well because it can afford to do that with access to Strength Sap - another point you seem intent on ignoring. Beyond that, most Brambleghast are meant to be offensive spinners, not defensive ones. Something which you also seem intent on ignoring.

Cramorant's special bulk is near identical to Tsareena, and while its physical bulk is naturally lower, its amazing typing more than makes up for that.

Your point about type matchups is completely disingenuous too. Yes Avalugg has a bad initial typing, but that doesn't matter because of its insane physical bulk. It still takes physical hits better than tsareena despite a type weakness against fighting moves for example. With A9 being very common, this issue is negated even more with the defense buff under snow and passive recovery from Ice Body. It's typing does hinder it, but not as much as Tsareena's does.

Tsareena is a pure grass type, meaning out of everything ranked A or above, 12 mons commonly run moves that hit it for SE damage, compared to 8 for Avalugg (and this is with me including neglegible SE moves like BP/Steel moves from Zong/Registeel) and 10 for Sandslash-A. If you include A- that goes up to 18 for Tsareena, 11 for Avalugg, 13 for Sandslash-A.

Let's talk resistances to STAB moves. There are only 3 mons that can't hit Tsareena for either neutral or SE damage with one of their STABs, compared to 7 for Sandslash-A. Avalugg has none, but it's natural bulk more than covers that up.

Saying Tsareena's typing doesn't actively hinder it is objectively wrong. You literally take SE from U-Turn as a DEFENSIVE mon. That alone should be enough to show you that it has a bad typing.

Since Cetitan ban, Avalugg has almost as much usage as Tsareena and Sandslash-A COMBINED and with a 60% WR to boot. That should be enough to show you that its typing doesn't hold it back like you think it does.

 

[emikatana]

It honestly sounds like you don't even play the tier or use the mons you're comparing Tsareena to. Avalugg can threaten 80% on Chandelure with EQ and has no trouble spinning at all in 99% of games. You mention Flamigo as a bad matchup despite the fact that Tsareena takes 1.5x more damage from CC than Avalugg, not to mention the BB and U-Turn weakness. Avalugg has not fallen off a cliff, it's just not optimal on every team any more; that doesn't mean it fell off a cliff. Sandslash-A has no trouble spinning either, given that it can threaten massive chip and item removal with knock off on any ghost that wants to come in. It also doesn't have a "terrible type matchup into most of the meta" - It's a steel type which means it inherently has a good typing into what it wants to switch into - Psychics, Grasses etc. You mention Sandslash not having reliable recovery but neither does Tsareena if it has U-Turn, which you previously mentioned is its best tool. You can't have it both ways - you're either running recovery or pivoting. Arguing like you can run both at the same time just means you drop Knock Off, which then implies that you are the single mon that struggles to spin the most in the tier given you can't touch Ghost types.

Another point in favor of the two Ice Types is their very positive matchup into the tier's premier Rocky Helmet user - Amoonguss. A matchup that needless to say Tsareena hard loses.

Bramble doesn't need to take hits super well because it can afford to do that with access to Strength Sap - another point you seem intent on ignoring. Beyond that, most Brambleghast are meant to be offensive spinners, not defensive ones. Something which you also seem intent on ignoring.

Cramorant's special bulk is near identical to Tsareena, and while its physical bulk is naturally lower, its amazing typing more than makes up for that.

Your point about type matchups is completely disingenuous too. Yes Avalugg has a bad initial typing, but that doesn't matter because of its insane physical bulk. It still takes physical hits better than tsareena despite a type weakness against fighting moves for example. With A9 being very common, this issue is negated even more with the defense buff under snow and passive recovery from Ice Body. It's typing does hinder it, but not as much as Tsareena's does.

Tsareena is a pure grass type, meaning out of everything ranked A or above, 12 mons commonly run moves that hit it for SE damage, compared to 8 for Avalugg (and this is with me including neglegible SE moves like BP/Steel moves from Zong/Registeel) and 10 for Sandslash-A. If you include A- that goes up to 18 for Tsareena, 11 for Avalugg, 13 for Sandslash-A.

Let's talk resistances to STAB moves. There are only 3 mons that can't hit Tsareena for either neutral or SE damage with one of their STABs, compared to 7 for Sandslash-A. Avalugg has none, but it's natural bulk more than covers that up.

Saying Tsareena's typing doesn't actively hinder it is objectively wrong. You literally take SE from U-Turn as a DEFENSIVE mon. That alone should be enough to show you that it has a bad typing.

Since Cetitan ban, Avalugg has almost as much usage as Tsareena and Sandslash-A COMBINED and with a 60% WR to boot. That should be enough to show you that its typing doesn't hold it back like you think it does.

Why are you so worked up about a single sentence I posted about my opinion on the meta? It is completely, shall I say, disingenuous to imply that I do not play the tier. While I would love to have a civilized discussion about this topic, this argument is accomplishing nothing and is actively negative considering you seem intent on personally attacking and insulting me, implying that you do not think your argument is good enough, since personal attacks are used to distract from the topic at hand, and undermine my credibility instead of my argument. I'm done with this.

 

[Phantomistix]

Why are you so worked up about a single sentence I posted about my opinion on the meta? It is completely, shall I say, disingenuous to imply that I do not play the tier. While I would love to have a civilized discussion about this topic, this argument is accomplishing nothing and is actively negative considering you seem intent on personally attacking and insulting me, implying that you do not think your argument is good enough, since personal attacks are used to distract from the topic at hand, and undermine my credibility instead of my argument. I'm done with this.

If I didn’t think my argument was good enough I wouldn’t write multiple multi paragraph posts detailing it and providing counter arguments to your one liner points.

I obviously know that you play the tier, you are one of the most active people in the room on PS, but I just pointed out what some of your points sounded like, which they do. Saying stuff like being a pure grass does nothing to hinder the mon is just objectively wrong.

If you feel personally insulted by this, that wasn’t my intention and I apologize. You are a frequent contributor on the forums and active in the community, which I always welcome, encourage and appreciate. This was me just explaining why I think Tsareena is bad and has been for a very long time while providing counter arguments to your points (I’ve literally been calling to UR it for ages now).

 

[Pokeslice]

B+ is overrating it by quite a bit. It does have a decent Pauros matchup but not much else going for it. Doesn't help that it is in direct competition with Oricorio-Pa'u

I think this isn't really an accurate take on what Guno does. It absolutely dominates these bulky Zong teams that we see everywhere with its CM set since it can freely set up on just about any mon, including Zong. It struggles a bit more into those Registeel teams, but you can always tech with Tera for t wave. Even into offenses, it's so bulky that you can often trade 1:1. I think it's one of the more underutilized mons atm and probably an A- riser on a future slate, but for now keep it in B+. It's heads and shoulders above B mons and most of B+ mons as well imo. Try it out!

- B+ this demon and ban it etern

 

[Shengineer]

-> S

I am an advocate for pushing Diancie into the S-tier because of its variety of meta-defining sets, its flexibility to be included on multiple team styles from Balance to Hyper Offense, and the ease with which its teammates (or even itself) can overwhelm its defensive checks. Diancie has seen both an extremely high usage and winrate during NUCL, and is personally one of the pokemon I've relied on the most to top the ladder multiple times (I'll get you soon enough, Django.) To me, it is on-par with the other S-tiers if not outright the best pokemon in NU.

OTR
The Trick Room + Meteor Beam set (often called "OTR") is an extremely effective wincon to build around while also making life hell for HO teams, and it's one of the stars of my latest sample teams contribution. This is the most popular and straightforward way to use Diancie, and it's hard to argue against its effectiveness.

Defensive
Diamond Storm + Body Press is equally dangerous, and can completely flip the matchup versus Steel-types like Bronzong and Registeel that are usually thought of as checks. The coverage from just these two moves is unresisted by the entireity of NU and PU, aside from Toxicroak who lacks the raw power to fight back against a defense-boosted diancie, and Golurk who is uncommon (but is slowly gaining the recognition it derserves!). Diancie's naturally excellent defenses allow it to invest in its Speed with few drawbacks, easily outspeeding Vaporeon and everything slower. Encore makes these defensive sets incredibly difficult to disrupt and a nightmare for bulky teams to respond to, fearing being locked into a recovery move. Diancie can then choose to either support its team with its choice of entry hazards, or run my new favorite move for Diancie, Substitue.

Why Substitute?
Sub allows Diancie to avoid item removal from Knock Off, burns from Will-o-Wisp and Scald, poison from Amoonguss, Alolan Muk, and Galarian Slowbro, the effects of Clear Smog, and so much more. It's particularly devastating to Encore-lock a foe who used a status move versus your Substitute. For example: a Bronzong clicking Stealth Rock expecting you to switch out, a Registeel clicking Thunder Wave, or Amoonguss attempting to land a Toxic. These scenarios occur quite frequently and can win you the game on the spot. With Tera Water or Dragon to shore up its weaknesses and buy itself free turns, this set is a massive headache for the opponent and should continue to see increased usage.

 

[Phantomistix]

A+
Bumping it to S has been a mistake in my opinion, as well as many in the council, including some who voted it up.

S
People started using sub legion and haven't looked back since. Obnoxious in the team builder and still a menace in games even if you have something that should beat it.

UR
Webs is completely absent from the tournament scene, and isn't good on ladder either. All the good HOs have shifted to other leads.

UR
It never got any real usage on ladder and has been almost completely absent from tours since we got it in DLC2. Amoonguss and Slowbro-G are much better contact punishers with helmet as they have real defensive typings, stats and most importantly, regenerator.

UR
He had his moment in the sun, or rather the snow, but it's time to go. Full snow structures are not good and semi snow structures will always choose Sandslash-A over the bear.

 

[emikatana]

I would personally disagree with making Basculegion S instead of Cinccino. I feel like if anything else should be S it's Diancie. While Basculegion is certainly a very strong mon, I do not feel it is ubiquitous or meta-defining enough to be S, especially on ladder. Cinccino meanwhile is arguably the most meta-defining mon in the tier right now, and has been for many months, being by far the best hazard control option and enabling very popular HO archetypes. Diancie also deserves to be S IMO, it is an amazing OTR sweeper and the best anti-HO mon, great utlity, DStorm + BP sweeper, demon sweeper, Sub + Encore, just a million sets that can do basically anything you want. Basculegion just isn't versatile or ubiquitous enough to justify an S ranking.

I would also disagree with unranking Galvantula. While webs is undoubtably a bad archetype in the current meta, it is still extremely popular on ladder and I think that that popularity should be reflected in the VR, since it is still something you need to account for when teambuilding.

 

[Heatranator]

I would also disagree with unranking Galvantula. While webs is undoubtably a bad archetype in the current meta, it is still extremely popular on ladder and I think that that popularity should be reflected in the VR, since it is still something you need to account for when teambuilding.

Ladder usage does not, and should not, reflect how the VR is made. Ladder is known for using extremely subpar mons, so it does not accurately reflect the metagame. Also accounting for webs is pretty easy, as not only does cincinno complete dog them, but others such as flygon, OTR Diancie, bascu, flamigo, kilowattrel and scyther do well against them. And that's just in the A ranks. You can make a case for webs being rankable in the case that they have a niche, but you yourself have stated that they are not good, so there is no reason to rank them from what I could see. We don't rank espeon despite the fact that ladder clings onto it desperately. Nor does any tier such as forretress for RU or a-tales and geezing in UU before they dropped.


I'm going to say that Bellibolt does not deserve to be UR. What bellibolt has over the other two regen poisons is a much better offensive presence, as soak+toxic actually exerts a huge amount of pressure. I think a small downgrade to C would be more worthy though, it does have very little tour usage.

 

[emikatana]

Ladder usage does not, and should not, reflect how the VR is made. Ladder is known for using extremely subpar mons, so it does not accurately reflect the metagame. Also accounting for webs is pretty easy, as not only does cincinno complete dog them, but others such as flygon, OTR Diancie, bascu, flamigo, kilowattrel and scyther do well against them. And that's just in the A ranks. You can make a case for webs being rankable in the case that they have a niche, but you yourself have stated that they are not good, so there is no reason to rank them from what I could see. We don't rank espeon despite the fact that ladder clings onto it desperately. Nor does any tier such as forretress for RU or a-tales and geezing in UU before they dropped.


I'm going to say that Bellibolt does not deserve to be UR. What bellibolt has over the other two regen poisons is a much better offensive presence, as soak+toxic actually exerts a huge amount of pressure. I think a small downgrade to C would be more worthy though, it does have very little tour usage.

Yeah that's fair. We don't really have a ton of webs abusers anyway, the good ones like Gallade, Iron Thorns, Feraligatr, have been gone a long time, so it doesn't really have a niche regardless.

Bellibolt is interesting, I feel like with Flamigo being such a threat right now a bulky Electric type is quite decent, but it really doesn't have the usage to back that up IDK

 

[Oofhixd]

Hey, uh ig here are some noms about mons

C -> UR
kinda on the phantom side w/ this. You arent using this mon unless youre a ladder player. I wont say too much as great points have already been made, but even brambleghast is a better grass spinner than this and it can at least spinblock. Its just outclassed unfortunately.

C -> UR
Speaking of outclassed, look what we have here. Unfortunately, chandelure exists and just completely outclasses this guy. I mean its not like hes a bad mon, its just why would you use it when chandelure is a very strong threat in the tier.

A+ -> S
this mon in A+ has been underrated. im p sure 70% of people agree with her going S as she is super splashable and has many sets. shes also seeing great tour success to back this up.

A+ -> S
agree with this in S aswell, insane versatility in sets, and overall the best water in the tier. Also seeing alot of results in tours and on ladder aswell.

A -> A+
This mon has negated so many other mons being breloom going from B -> C, Vileplume going from A -> UR and nearly dvery other grass dropping a tier or two. this mon should be A+ for the same reason cinccino should be S. it just completely invalidates some mons.

A -> A+
theres all this discussion about which is better: registeel and bronzong but i believe this is the best steel rn. completely walls some mons, has the best typing in the game, an amazing ability i mean what more could you want? take notes sableye, this is how you do a prankster mon.

A -> A-
im admittedly this guys biggest hater in PU, but he isnt awful here hes just.. not A tier. hes not super consistent and the hardest thing you have to do with him is scout out what set he is. Shift gear can be quite potent but easy to punish. specs is strong but slow and scarf is the opposite of specs. i just believe A is a little to high.

A -> A-
this mon is also pretty good with just one weakness, but it doesnt really warrant A tier at this point in time imo. To stop this from being a one liner im gonna compare muk to other poisons. as a physical poison, muk is probably the premier option beside toxicroak, and it has a better typing than toxicroak. muk however lacks the speed that toxicroak has to be an effective sweeper.

some quickfire UR noms

C -> UR
lets be real, as cool as this mushroom guy is, you arent using him. it has some small niches but not enough to ranked and its p outclassed in its niches.

C -> UR
you really arent using webs anymore with cinccino everywhere being essentially the best mon in the tier. this mon is completely outclassed so there really is no reason to use this guy. See you in PU!

C -> UR
i thought we were being stricter with the VR? get this guy off it! psychic terrain has not been viable in months and thats the only role of this guy. Having him still ranked is hilarious.

B -> B+
munkidori but bulkier and with a better defensive type which isnt weak to ghost. also more versatile with sets. speed feels lacking tho

B- -> A-
I honestly think im being a bit conservative with this one. He is GREAT as shown by many tour results and his ability to turn around games. this guy is NOT good due to his belly drum set ftr ladder, stop using it.

B -> B-
I mean i guess its an ori but like youd rather use pa’u 90% of the time. this thing has little results and ig if you want an ori that dorsnt die to knock this is your option

B -> B- or possibly C
We kinda just left this fella in B and forgot about dropping it. its just not great anymore and feels p underwhelming in this meta.

one last thing if diancie and basculegion go to S — maybe an S- tier could be considered due to 4 mons in S seeming a little much

 

[Phantomistix]

B- -> A
Yes he's that good. Can flex tera, can run herb or balloon for flygons or dice to beat sashes (and avoid contact hazards). Tera dark is good offensively, fairy is good defensively to resist the majority of priority options. Very solid natural physical bulk (90/90/68) gives it many setup opportunities, especially when behind a veil.

 

[Phantomistix]

UR
The propaganda from they who shall not be named has quieted down which means we get to unrank this fraud. Sucks at its only job.

B-
This guy actually gets tour wins and has merits over other options - namely the best Toxtricity MU.

Note - Last slate before shifts going up 24 hours from this post, get your noms in.

 

[Pokeslice]

UR
The propaganda from they who shall not be named has quieted down which means we get to unrank this fraud. Sucks at its only job.

Gonna disagree and think this still should be ranked. Havalugg has its niche as a good HO lead who beats lead cincinno teams. Keep it C because of this.

It has more viability than Bomb or Dragalge or Ludicolo, drop them from C.

-> B+

Now this is a mon that needs to rise. Genuinely a fantastic meta mon right now with Tera Steel AV or BU or BD. Raise it for sure.

 

[PowerOfMemes]

A -> A-
I think Amoonguss is good, and spreading status is amazing. However, it’s not that great of a Fighting resist by itself due to the recent influx of Fighting-types that can just nuke it, namely Firebull, Infernape, and, the worst offender of them all, Flamigo.

C -> B-
Cramorant’s bulk is absolutely horrendous when it doesn’t resist the attack. Though, looking at what we have in the C tier, Cramorant is clearly better even if it is solely thanks to the tier lacking hazard removal + its ability to bother opponents with Gulp Missile shenanigans.

B+ -> A-
Infernape is a worse but way more versatile Mienshao. Choice Scarf sets are really slappable for balance teams, and it’s can be a pain to predict at times with its billion sets, including Nasty Plot, Swords Dance, Choice Band, Choice Specs, and lead.

: C -> UR
Hisuian Braviary is always at least one thing; it’s hazards weak, not too strong, or slow as hell. Also, while Heat Wave is nice coverage, most Steel-types can take a hit, and nearly all of our Choice Scarf users outspeed this at +1 and can threaten to KO it. Galvantula isn’t bad itself; however, Cinccino being the main offense and hyper offense enabler along with other hazard-denying leads being used more, like Rapid Spin Hisuian Avalugg and Taunt Infernape, Galvantula is left in the dust.

B- -> B
Being a ripoff Galarian Zapdos, Flamigo has basically let Bellibolt be decent. Toxic + Volt Switch also gives Bellibolt an advantage over other walls too, allowing it to cripple them as well as switch out.

B -> B-
The last time that this was good was in the post-Deoxys-D ban Cresselia meta, since it could capitalize on Cresselia with its Substitute + Calm Mind set. After that, it’s been all downhill with Choice Scarf sets often being outclassed by other Pokemon, though Meloetta has cool compression, and Choice Specs sets typically being done better by Porygon-Z.

 

[Phantomistix]

Last update before shifts in a few days. We're still unsure what mons we're losing and if we're gaining any so I'll wait till then to update yall on when the next slate will be, but expect a very small slate to get the new mons ranked a week or so after shifts and then a full slate nearer to the end of April. As always, you can find the voting slate here.

New Additions

Bastiodon UR -> C Bastiodon has seen some recent use both in tournament play and on ladder as a niche steel type, particularly for its great bulk combined with access to foul play and Soundproof, which makes it one of the best Toxtricity answers available.

Rises

Hariyama B- -> B+ Has been steadily growing in popularity since it first started seeing usage in NUCL. Very good as a generic sponge that can still dish out damage and absorb status.
Drednaw B- -> B Picking up usage as an option on HO. Has benefits over Torterra in that it is stronger and faster, and has a better STAB combination. Can run a variety of sets, tera types and items to tailor what it beats.

Drops

Toxtricity A -> A- People are dropping it in favor of the more flexible and customizable Porygon-Z.
Articuno-Galar B+ -> B Hasn't been seeing much use in a fast paced meta dominated by mons that don't allow it the free turns it needs.
Sandslash-Alola B+ -> B Idk why this was in B+ tbh, more of a correction to its placement than a change in meta.
Goodra B -> C Very rigid mon in terms of what builds it fits on, and those slower balance builds aren't doing too hot at the moment. The Oricorios aren't terrorizing the tier as much right now, and Goodra was one of the best long term answers.
Heracross B -> B- Suffers from a similar problem as Goodra where it only really fits on a very small amount of builds that aren't strong at the moment.
Meloetta B -> B- It can't keep up with the competition - whether that be psychic types, scarfers or breakers.
Oricorio B -> UR No reason to use it over Pa'u.
Tornadus B -> B- Rain has completely disappeared, and while other sets have been seeing some recent use, it's not enough to justify keeping it in B rank.
Beartic B- -> C While A9 has remained a very popular mon, it's almost always seen on non-snow builds. Snow as an archetype is in a very weak spot, and Beartic is a much less popular option than Sandslash-A on those builds.
Bellibolt B- -> C Hasn't seen meaningful use in a very long time so it's dropping. There is some potential as a contact abuser with Flamigo's rise but that remains just that, potential, not results.
Dragalge C -> UR Long overdue.
Typhlosion-Hisui C -> UR Chandelure sends its regards.

 

[Shengineer]

Some thoughts on the placement of mons in the current meta:

A- -> A/A+
The GOAT. Phantom just mentioned how Toxtricity has fallen off in favor of PZ, and I think it's only fitting that it rises to A. The amount of coverage on this duck is insane, and Normal + Ghost is unresisted outside of... Naclstack? It deserves this ranking both for its immense power and variety of sets. It can run double dance (goes crazy with bulk invest + Sitrus), Trick + Specs or Scarf, Boots + Plot, Agility 3 Attacks, and probably more. Tera Blast Ground is incredible at paving the way vs Steel-Types, but with Registeel gone it might be less necessary. Neither fast teams nor bulky ones are safe from PZ - give this mon the respect it deserves.

A- -> B
Trash mon. Too much immediate power from special attackers in the tier that shut it down before it gets going. You can try to matchup fish, but a lot of the time it feels like you're playing 5v6.

A -> A-
Still a solid option on HO for its speed, but it's not too hard to trade hits against or land status on. It can still clean up games or put a dent in Steel-types, but it doesn't feel like it's on the same level as the other A-tiers.

B -> B+/A-
With Registeel gone, Copperajah is just better by default as it was often outclassed. It can tank hits from PZ, Meteor Beam Diancie, and Toxtricity while threatening OHKOs back on each. Fully defensive is not my preferred way to use this mon, I prefer Custap Berry on more offensive teams and have been tinkering with Assault Vest to improve its ability to check the aforementioned threats. Leave the 'busy work' to other mons and do some damage with this guy.

B -> B+
Am I the last Inteleon believer or something? Why is this guy languishing in B tier of all places? Second fastest mon in the tier, insane damage output, and he can just pivot on all his counters! Pairs great with Toxicroak or Hariyama. Also I tried out Substitute with Tera Blast Grass and it felt real.

B -> B+
Best Shell Smasher in the tier and one of HO's best options right now. Coverage, Tera types, and Items all very customizable to beat its counters. Base typing lets it setup versus lots of choice-locked mons like Flamigo, Munkidori, and Flygon (shoutout Tera Fairy + Air Balloon!). Also it outspeeds every Scarfer bar Inteleon.

B- -> C
Milotic has lost the Water Wars. Billions must Scald.

C -> B-
A mainstay on Stall, sometimes seen on balance. Good spinblocker and generic physical wall that can easily weather the storm of Cinccino + Scyther. Does suffer from 4MSS though.

---

C -> UR

Can't spin vs Brambleghast.

When's the last time someone brought this thing to tour? Ren is gone so we can quit lying to ourselves about this mon.

Depends whether we want Rain to be represented on the VR at all...

 

[Rabia]

-> S

I think the main push against this change would be Amoonguss and Cinccino being awkward in certain lines, as well as Basculegion being reliant on status and other outside factors to really pressure Gastrodon and Vaporeon. Nevertheless, mixed Substitute sets have been quite good at breaking most of the common balance cores down and gain a lot of real estate in the Bronzong matchups. Choice Scarf is dope too and certainly has high potential when you queue into the "Amoonguss shall check the Water-types" matchup.

-> A+

I could see Bronzong up to S even because it's debatably our best source of role compression, but at a minimum I think both it and Klefki are easily A+ now with Registeel gone. Klefki offsetting Alolan Muk some is pretty nifty; it's not some god-tier matchup given it'll just RestTalk and beat you long-term, but you can force favorable positioning if you're Magician and force it asleep. Generally a vibe check into offense too when it's Prankster and of course a solid Cinccino + Scyther answer.

-> A+

Stupid mushroom that goes on every non-HO team is quite good. Flamigo's continued rise is a bit of cause for concern but overall not something that shunts its viability really. Amoonguss's versatility I think is what sells me the most on it, be it some AV set or just tinkering with other moves like Stomping Tantrum and Stun Spore on the standard defensive sets.

-> A-

It's continued to be amazing and has noted synergy with Kilowattrel right now. I'm not sure it rises much past A- but certainly has displayed enough to finally settle in here.

-> B

Flamigo is a cunt, so the old PU sequence of Bellibolt coming in to threaten Static can become the new NU sequence. Basically it's just another slow pivot, and NU is no stranger to wallbreakers that appreciate this type of support. Big thing here is Flygon running Choice Scarf a lot more than it used to--and by proxy Choice Band not being AS common as it was months ago--so the former best wallbreaker into Bellibolt isn't as metagame defining anymore. This imo gives Bellibolt a lot more room to fuck around and let people find out, and Soak + Toxic is pretty funny into a litany of other good Pokemon (Amoonguss, Gastrodon, Bronzong, etc.).

 

[rubycandy]

Some thoughts on the placement of mons in the current meta:

A- -> A/A+
The GOAT. Phantom just mentioned how Toxtricity has fallen off in favor of PZ, and I think it's only fitting that it rises to A. The amount of coverage on this duck is insane, and Normal + Ghost is unresisted outside of... Naclstack? It deserves this ranking both for its immense power and variety of sets. It can run double dance (goes crazy with bulk invest + Sitrus), Trick + Specs or Scarf, Boots + Plot, Agility 3 Attacks, and probably more. Tera Blast Ground is incredible at paving the way vs Steel-Types, but with Registeel gone it might be less necessary. Neither fast teams nor bulky ones are safe from PZ - give this mon the respect it deserves.

A- -> B
Trash mon. Too much immediate power from special attackers in the tier that shut it down before it gets going. You can try to matchup fish, but a lot of the time it feels like you're playing 5v6.

A -> A-
Still a solid option on HO for its speed, but it's not too hard to trade hits against or land status on. It can still clean up games or put a dent in Steel-types, but it doesn't feel like it's on the same level as the other A-tiers.

B -> B+/A-
With Registeel gone, Copperajah is just better by default as it was often outclassed. It can tank hits from PZ, Meteor Beam Diancie, and Toxtricity while threatening OHKOs back on each. Fully defensive is not my preferred way to use this mon, I prefer Custap Berry on more offensive teams and have been tinkering with Assault Vest to improve its ability to check the aforementioned threats. Leave the 'busy work' to other mons and do some damage with this guy.

B -> B+
Am I the last Inteleon believer or something? Why is this guy languishing in B tier of all places? Second fastest mon in the tier, insane damage output, and he can just pivot on all his counters! Pairs great with Toxicroak or Hariyama. Also I tried out Substitute with Tera Blast Grass and it felt real.

B -> B+
Best Shell Smasher in the tier and one of HO's best options right now. Coverage, Tera types, and Items all very customizable to beat its counters. Base typing lets it setup versus lots of choice-locked mons like Flamigo, Munkidori, and Flygon (shoutout Tera Fairy + Air Balloon!). Also it outspeeds every Scarfer bar Inteleon.

B- -> C
Milotic has lost the Water Wars. Billions must Scald.

C -> B-
A mainstay on Stall, sometimes seen on balance. Good spinblocker and generic physical wall that can easily weather the storm of Cinccino + Scyther. Does suffer from 4MSS though.

---

C -> UR

Can't spin vs Brambleghast.

When's the last time someone brought this thing to tour? Ren is gone so we can quit lying to ourselves about this mon.

Depends whether we want Rain to be represented on the VR at all...

"Normal + Ghost is unresisted outside of... Naclstack?" Bro forgot the GOAT

 

[Phantomistix]

It's been a while since we've done a full voting slate, and with Registeel's departure we felt it was the right time for one. As always, you can find the voting slate here. We'll be going back to nom only slates for the next while so get those in.

This slate outlines a big and obvious meta shift, HO's fall off and the rise of offense.

New Additions

Aawin won't let me self buy :(

Rises

Diancie A+ -> S Diancie's been a mon that was up for debate even before Registeel's rise, and now it's even better. It gets the rise it deserves.
Bronzong A -> A+ Prior to its rise, Registeel had been taking up a big share of the tier's steel type usage, and Bronzong has absorbed the majority of that share post shifts.
Flamigo A -> A+ Has cemented itself as a staple on offense and in some people's eyes, a problematic presence in the tier. With incredible stats throughout the last few weeks of tournaments, this rise was guaranteed.
Muk-Alola A -> A+ With HO dropping off, balance is finally picking up in considerable usage and Muk-A is the king of balance. Virtually unwallable and very awkward to play into while providing amazing defensive utility.
Porygon-Z A- -> A+ The rise of bulkier setup sets has brought out PZ's full potential, as well as the rise of offense teams where it's a natural fit with choiced sets too.
Sylveon B+ -> A- As Vaporeon drops off in favor of Gastrodon, another wish passer moves up to take its place. Sylveon also happens to pair fantastically well as a defensive tool and late game wincon alongside Gastrodon and other balance and offense options.
Copperajah B -> A- While Bronzong has claimed most of the void left behind by Registeel, Copperajah has also seen considerably more usage post shifts.
Drednaw B -> A- It seems others are finally catching on to what I've been saying for a while now; Drednaw is VERY good, if not broken. Can run a variety of items and teras which makes it very unpredictable and even more of a threat.
Heracross B- -> B Is seeing usage as the breaker of choice on some offenses and on balance over Chandelure, Flamigo and others as it offers the freedom of not being choice locked.
Bellibolt C -> B- Contact punisher in the Flamigo meta.
Tsareena C -> B- Idk tbh this mon is garbage.
Wo-Chien C -> B- A very solid option on balance builds with its incredible bulk and longevity. Provides good utility with Knock-Off and other options and can dish out consistent damage with Ruination.

Drops

Cinccino S -> A+ HO dropped off, still a very threatening mon and archetype.
Ninetales-Alola A+ -> A HO dropped off.
Scream Tail A -> B+ HO dropped off.
Tauros-Paldea-Aqua A -> A- Flamigo solidified itself as the premier fighting type, more competition from its alternate fire form and other breakers.
Oricorio-Pa'u A- -> B+ The bird will be back and will have its revenge upon those who voted it down undeservedly. Ig HO dropped off but I think it's being massively underrated.
Slowbro-Galar A- -> B+ Slightly overrated previously, awkward to fit on the more popular and solid structures and cores.
Decidueye B+ -> B HO dropped off, defensive sets are worse now that the best fighting type has Scrappy and Wauros is falling off.
Ditto B+ -> B- HO dropped off, most HOs run anti-ditto tech anyway.
Gligar B+ -> B Outclassed by other bulky grounds and hazard setters in most cases, suffers from severe 4mss.
Porygon2 B+ -> B More hostile environment with less good abilities to trace and more threats that beat it.
Duraludon B -> C Hard to justify over other steels, especially with HO falling off and it being a direct anti-HO tech.
Grafaiai B -> B- HO dropped off.
Raikou B -> B- Yoyo dog is back at it again.
Sandslash-Alola B -> B- Ninetales-Alola is falling off and the other steels and hazard setters are boxing it out outside A9 teams.
Hitmonlee B- -> C HO dropped off.
Milotic B- -> C Has very little going for it over other options.
Naclstack B- -> C Awkward to build with.
Avalugg-Hisui C -> UR HO dropped off. This thing was trash even before but Rabia and Shengineer finally accepted the truth.
Beartic C -> UR
Bombirdier C -> UR
Galvantula C -> UR
Ludicolo C -> UR

 

[Stories]

Tsareena C -> B- Idk tbh this mon is garbage.

I'll do the honors then;

Tsareena is a Rapid Spinner with amazing bulk and reliable recovery. The difference though between something like Avalugg and Tsareena is Tsareena can actually beat hazard setters 1v1. Bronzong, Gastrodon, Diancie, and Swampert all send Avalugg running with its tail between its legs, while Tsareena easily beats them. On top of this, Tsareena has incredible set diversity and well-rounded stats to make any combination of moves work. High attack, great bulk on both sides of the spectrum, and honestly a decent speed stat make both the offensive sets with Triple Axel and High Jump Kick and the bulky sets with Knock Off and Synthesis really scary at preview, especially for the ever-rising Spikes teams that we're seeing plenty of in NU Swiss. teams featuring Gligar + a Ghost type are generally well off vs Avalugg, but Tsareena's staying power and better typing let it thrive in the Spikes Bulky Offense matchup we're seeing so often right now.