Anyone has a spicy mon for me to try for this suspect test? I'm stuck.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 ( NEW SURVEY UP, POST 20,700 )
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Bulky Victory Dance Hisuian Lilligant.
I'm currently trying to get reqs with this team: https://pokepast.es/6a14ceca66959e35
H!Lilligant has some of the traits that make Gouging Fire OP, namely Recovery and and Victory Dance. It's bulk is a lot shittier though, as is it's two move coverage. I am running it with Pecharunt as a pseudo veil Pokémon, and Samu to pressure Gholdengo / Slowking.
Sadly this team gets walled by the broken bird (Corvi) + has issues into Pokémon like Pecharunt and Moltres. Hustle also sucks. I am likely going to run Tera Blast Electric over Low Kick after talking to 1LDK. I also received some advice to use Galarian Slowking over Enam from JackRG to make CB zama more threatening. However, I feel enam is needed for Speed Control, Ground Resistance, and Hwish.
I think there is some potential here for something great though, especially in the hands of a more competent builder / battler.
EDIT: Tera Blast Electric Lilligant-H going crazy... IF it hits.
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holy shit i had no idea that was you running this team lol it surprised me originally and i thought someone was just trying super hard to cook. i think it deffo has potential as a surprise tech but i think finding the right team around it is also doable, glgl
To me, Ceruledge is far and away the most underestimated Pokemon in SV OU. I talk about why in this video I just uploaded:
What do you think of Ceruledge in the current metagame? Are there any other Pokemon you guys think could be underrated? Overrated, maybe?
Personally, I try to keep both Booster Energy Raging Bolt and Zamazenta in the back if I see a Ceruledge on the opposing team as Poltergeist hits really hard at +2, and there aren't a lot of good resists to Ceruledge's STAB combo aside from Garganacl, Samurott-Hisui, and Roaring Moon. As a balance player, I definitely am more mindful of Ceruledge than Iron Moth since Iron Moth is much easier to stuff than Ceruledge from my experience.
Ttar can usually take care of it on my team's but there's definitely been some times where it reverse swept me. I'm always wary of ceruledge
Ceruledge has been my favorite pokemon to use this generation, and was the only thing keeping me playing when Gouging Fire was legal. My favorite niche set was bulk up, disable, bb, sneak. I ran it a lot on double removal teams, kind of like sub/protect kyurem structures. Not as good as focus sash, but fun for me.
I know Ttar has been getting a lot of love recently, but I'll follow the crowd and say that I've been living using him the last month. I've been working on Ttar stall and knock off with sandchip is almost an auto win against weather and certain other teams. It also makes stall games not take as long as they usually do, which I'm sure everyone appreciates.
I know Ttar has been getting a lot of love recently, but I'll follow the crowd and say that I've been living using him the last month. I've been working on Ttar stall and knock off with sandchip is almost an auto win against weather and certain other teams. It also makes stall games not take as long as they usually do, which I'm sure everyone appreciates.
Ceruledge feels like a mon that would be banned if Booster Energy mons weren't around.
Sometimes it can sweep my entire team, but sometimes it is as flimsy as a wet towel.
Sometimes it can sweep my entire team, but sometimes it is as flimsy as a wet towel.
A thought occured to me earlier today and it got me thinking. Could FlyNite (DD, Sub, Roost, Fly Dragonite) do anything relevant this meta? I've always thought it was an oddball set in ORAS so I wondered why it hasn't been tested in other gens (or, if it was tested, why i've never heard it's success or likely failiure)
At this point, no. It really needed the 16 PP Roost provided, now it has just 8. Also, both Gliscor and Dondozo just laugh at it.
Back when walking wake was released (hard to belive it was 2 years ago) I peaked my highest ever on the ladder, using a really disgusting momentum sink team. Sun was everywhere back then and teams just couldnt get past slowking/amoongus/dondozo/clodsire core. Anyway I'm happy to say i finally bested my result and now on the cusp of top 100, this time with a team i dont feel guilty about.
Having said that. Do any good players have tips for suspect runs? I have actually never qualified for one, I wouldve thought by the time i hit mid 1800s I'd be consistent enough for it but apparently not.
Having said that. Do any good players have tips for suspect runs? I have actually never qualified for one, I wouldve thought by the time i hit mid 1800s I'd be consistent enough for it but apparently not.
Reset if you lose early (I like to reset or not even go for reqs if I lose before first 15 games, but most people do 10). this makes it way easier and consistent to get the required gxe later on.
Only play 1 game, 2 games if they're short, at a time, and then have a walk and drink some water or have a snack or whatever.
If you lose, take an even longer break, tilt can add hours to your suspect run.
Use stall until ~1600 and then use a consistent balance or bulky offense team.
Early streaks are instrumental to a good run. If you sustain a loss don’t have it occur until you’re about 10 games in. Ideally you don’t take a loss until about 15-20 games in, because you want as much of a cushion as possible when it comes to GXE requirements, but taking a loss around 10-15 games still makes for a doable run. If you eat a loss before 10 games the run will become leagues more difficult to a point where it’s just not worth it to keep using the account, because GXE scales with your loss (and where it happened) in mind. I disagree a bit with veti when it comes to doing one or two games at a time at this stage. It’s not a problem to run 3+ games early on to save time, so long as you can manage the stimulus. This is where running Stall can actually be a huge asset early in your run since sequencing into mediocre/poorly built teams is a lot more straight forward. But once you’re about 15+ games in, hone in on one or two at a time, as she said.
When you take a loss, step away and get a drink of water/take a walk. If it happens twice in a row, stick a pin in it for a longer period of time. Veti is completely right about how much tilt can affect the process, though stamina can also be a huge setback if you’re not a regular ladder player. Play in accordance with your limits, and recognize when too much is too much.
The only time I've been able to get reqs for a suspect test was when I went 19-0 as I'm just not consistent enough to overcome losing a lot in low ladder. The ladder for the Tera suspect was also inflated due to how much activity there was, making it much easier to get reqs in general, so it makes sense that was the only I was able to do it for the first test test of the generation.
I am just not at the skill level to be able to get reqs. You need to be able to hit 1900 regularly to be able to get reqs consistently without restarting a lot. If you can hit 1800 by playing many, many games and haven't done better than that, it'd be almost impossible for you to get reqs since it requires a high degree of consistency and proficiency at the game that you haven't reached yet.
I am just not at the skill level to be able to get reqs. You need to be able to hit 1900 regularly to be able to get reqs consistently without restarting a lot. If you can hit 1800 by playing many, many games and haven't done better than that, it'd be almost impossible for you to get reqs since it requires a high degree of consistency and proficiency at the game that you haven't reached yet.
Cheer up!
I hadn't played since Palafin, almost 3 whole months, just watching the SV OU SPL games, and I got a 40w-6l (with a 31-0 start, which would have been a perfect run in the old model
) with 85.2% gxe on the third try. (The first one was ruined by two games with random Tera Blast catching me off guard and the second one I tried a team that doesn't suit my style.)Veti's tips are pretty solid and you can add multiple games at the beginning only if you're confident.
This just isnt true, when my peak elo was 1767 I got 79.9% gxe just before the deadline during the bloodmoon suspect, and my first ou reqs were Kyurem 1 when I had never hit 1900 even once despite trying and was usually under 1800 elo even. The new elo component doesn't really add much difficulty either, to get 1750 you just need to be skilled enough to usually beat 1600s, which is a much lower bar than being consistently 1900. If you can even be a consistent 1700 you have a very high chance of getting reqs if you just tryhard and dont tilt, especially if you ladder when americans are sleeping.
I'd disagree with the bit about ELO peak correlation with skill level. Even someone who hasn't crossed 1850 is fully capable of getting reqs, climbing the ELO ladder is more of about catching a win streak at the right time more than anything else. There are plenty of players who don't try to get to the higher ladder but can get reqs consistently if they just lock in.
Moral of the story: ban Tera BlastCheer up!
I hadn't played since Palafin, almost 3 whole months, just watching the SV OU SPL games, and I got a 40w-6l (with a 31-0 start, which would have been a perfect run in the old model
Veti's tips are pretty solid and you can add multiple games at the beginning only if you're confident.
Ban Moon too.
I <3 Latios
It's so fast and strong and epic. Psynoise makes it a stallbreaker (forces Blissey tera) (6-0s if it isn't dark). Tera Steel lets it wall some guys like non-CC Tusk and non-Knock Gliscor. Kyurem, too. I tried out max HP a couple of times, the extra bulk is noticeable and it's still strong enough to like, OHKO Tusk.
I made a video about the issues with smogon suspect tests.
The Gxe requirement makes getting reqs a complete slog, so much so that some top level players who deserve a voice don't bother getting reqs. Furthermore, Gxe requirement doesn't do its intended job of perfectly sifting the wheat from the chaff. We saw this in the palafin test with a jaw dropping 25% of voters who thought palafin was ok for the meta.
If the suspects did its job that number should be a rounding error or numerically 0. They are clearly not keeping out every unreasonable voice. There was and is no defensible, sensible, or even stretchable reason to vote unban for palafin.
Furthermore, suspect tests lean towards more extreme voices voting in suspect tests. Because having to tryhard all the way from 1000 to 1750 is so boring, people with sensible, moderate, opinions will not bother getting reqs. Instead, the demographic of people willing to waste 3 hours or potentially much more on getting a chance to vote in a suspect test definitely skews towards extreme voices who are haters and think that the meta sucks but this one change is gonna fix everything, when in reality they will continue being unhappy even if the change gets made.
The Gxe requirement makes getting reqs a complete slog, so much so that some top level players who deserve a voice don't bother getting reqs. Furthermore, Gxe requirement doesn't do its intended job of perfectly sifting the wheat from the chaff. We saw this in the palafin test with a jaw dropping 25% of voters who thought palafin was ok for the meta.
If the suspects did its job that number should be a rounding error or numerically 0. They are clearly not keeping out every unreasonable voice. There was and is no defensible, sensible, or even stretchable reason to vote unban for palafin.
Furthermore, suspect tests lean towards more extreme voices voting in suspect tests. Because having to tryhard all the way from 1000 to 1750 is so boring, people with sensible, moderate, opinions will not bother getting reqs. Instead, the demographic of people willing to waste 3 hours or potentially much more on getting a chance to vote in a suspect test definitely skews towards extreme voices who are haters and think that the meta sucks but this one change is gonna fix everything, when in reality they will continue being unhappy even if the change gets made.
Getting reqs can be somewhat tedious at times especially with how ladder (mid ladder especially) likes fishy weird teams but there’s no real solution to that. That’s just how low-mid ladder can be in any tier. By the way, anyone can get reqs and earn the right to vote if they’re willing to put in the effort. However no one is entitled to vote by default just because they’re great at the game.
Your GXE argument of how it supposedly doesn’t do its job is also extremely silly. And your example of how this is supposedly the case is… there were people who thought Palafin was fine? Oh no people have opinions. The horror. I got reqs and votes to keep Palafin banned but I completely respect the opinions of others who felt differently. Your entire rant about “no defensible, sensible, or even stretchable reason to vote unban for palafin”, but that’s really not how this works. That’s YOUR opinion. It’s not an objective truth and to suggest otherwise is comical and out of touch with reality. Palafin was not even one of the most broken Pokémon of the generation or close to it, at least by this point and it was the most reasonable Pokémon to suggest a retest for.
What even is “sensible, moderate opinions”? Opinions that aline with yours? People who ladder for reqs are not try hards. People who pass these reqs aren’t extreme voices. They’re players who have a vested interested (most of them anyways) in the tier and are choosing fo get involved fo impact tiering one way or the other.
It can be challenging especially for players who aren’t used to laddering that high but as this thread has demonstrated, people are very willing to give advice and tips for suspect runs. There’s no gatekeeping aspect except the willingness to put forth the effort and push through. There’s nothing wrong with just feeling like you can’t do it, or just are too tired or busy or anything.
In ending, don’t disrespect or downplay the efforts of those who actually got reqs and dismiss them as “extreme voices” or “tryhards”. It’s rude, inflammatory and adds zero value to any discussion.
Is voting unban palafin really that unreasonable? Lily, Sinnohconfirmed, Lax, and Ewin all voted unban, Lily especially being UUTL, OU Council, and 7-2 in SPL, with the other 3 players also being other great SV OU players and familiar with the tiering process, realistically people who are 7-2 in SPL are going to get reqs whether you disagree with them or not. Those 4 players all voting Unban also shows that its really not indefensible to want Palafin in the meta.
Being moderate is not at all correlated to being sensible. Suspect tests also still have plenty of on the fence voters and people who are extreme no change exist in addition to people who hate the meta, people who hate the meta also often dont get reqs because they've given up on the tier.
I find it incredibly hilarious how you claim suspect tests skew towards those who want to change the meta, when the last three suspect tests we have had all ended up in verdicts that maintained the current meta: Do Not Ban for both Kyurem and Gliscor, while a Keep Banned for Palafin.
I think the other flaws in this post have already been addressed fairly well by others, so I'll avoid those, but I would like to point out the hypocrisy in your post. You claim that suspect tests should include "sensible, moderate voices", yet in the same post also claim Palafin should have resulted in a 100% Keep Unban voter result, so what are you looking for? A suspect test result that aligns purely with what you think is best for the tier, or one that actually has a range of voter opinions and voices: the current system?
I explained what a moderate opinion was perfectly clearly. One that did not think this suspect test would shake the meta that much. I did not disrespect voters as extreme voices. I simply stated the obvious that the more extreme the opinion, the more likely they are to actually persevere through the slog that is getting reqs.
Yes good players should get a vote on a suspect test. What are you even talking about? Just because someone is too busy and doesn't have the time to get through an arbitrary arduous slog they don't deserve to have a vote? I cannot see where you are coming from.
Funny how you just said who voted to keep palafin but gave no reasoning for keeping it allowed, because it is an indefensible position. Good players can be wrong, just plain dead wrong which is a point I made and why the hard gatekeeping isn't even that worth it.
Funny because 58% of people voted to ban kyurem despite it, in my opinion not being broken. Which takes literally nothing away from my point whatsoever and in fact supports my point.
What I want is a suspect test that is not a boring grueling slog, so all the top players can actually vote not just the one's with the most free time. The arbitrary and odd arguments to support the tradition of GXE requirement is strange to me. if it were 1800 that is the top 200 players voting on a test if it is 1850 that is the top 100 players voting in a test. Is there really an issue with saying the top 100/200 players should have a voice?
I cannot fathom the arguments to deny the best players a vote just because they do not wish to waste their time doing trudging through low ladder having to pass luck checks that threaten to wipe hours of progress.
Funny how you never actually gave reasoning for how Palafin is supposed to be this indefensible Pokémon that is super 100% broken and never should’ve been allowed. Meanwhile many players (myself included) went to the relevant threads and gave our opinions (there were great pro keep and no ban arguments and it ultimately came down to how each player felt about its impact on the game.
By the way, there have been great players who have in past suspects even gone on record saying they don’t have time to ladder for a given suspect but you don’t see them wanting a free pass to vote anyways just because they’re good at the keep.