Tournaments SMPL IV - Format Discussion

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Greetings! SMPL IV is approaching, and I am excited to host this edition and introduce a formal format discussion thread.

Previously the tournament has been running following the 10-slot format listed below:
1x SM Ubers
2x SM OU
1x SM OU [Suspect Slot]
1x SM DOU
1x SM UU
1x SM RU
1x SM NU
1x SM PU
1x SM LC
  • Collectively for this edition, we've decided to change SM OU [Suspect Slot] to a standard SM OU slot
This thread is meant to focus on expanding SMPL to a 12-slot format or keeping it as 10-slots following the OU suspect slot change. Some potential tiers to be added to the tournament if expanded to a 12-slot format are Monotype, ZU, Anything Goes, OU #4, and others presented well in this thread.
 
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I cosign w/ the expansion of the tiers as a former Ruins of Alph host myself. I just want to publically extend my arms to Lutra, Rage, and RoA staff because hosting tour nights has shown me sort of the operations/groundwork of lower tiers & supporting them and (how roa truly is the heartbeat with resources such as sample teams, viability rankings, c&c sets, and more leading to really unique player bases.) As a contributor, I cannot ignore that RoA supports a variety of past-generation tiers from Ubers-ZU daily. I think cutting the suspect slot gives a consistent representation for SM OU and expanding to 12-slots is a net positive due to these three tiers SM Monotype, SM ZU, and SM Anything Goes being potential options. I think SM is a really unique case because of Z-move excitement. If each tier has a valid 8 to start + existing resources to support the tour then I lean to expand. SM Monotype has a valid case in particular due to its official status during its time during cg and I would say it was very high skill pool last MPL with big starters dugza/attribute/dahli/more all just being well rounded consistent players and i can name at least 20+ more.
 
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oh wait what about 3 ou and an ou bo3 slot + monotype/whatever, that could work too
 
Monotype should be included, it is largely considered to be the best Monotype generation ever and most, if not all, who have played it think highly of the tier, both mainers and tournament players. It is also quite easy to pick up and the resources are up to date. SM usually has the strongest pools in Monotype tours for this reason because of how great the tier is, it is a shame that it has gone unincluded in SMPL for a couple of years now but this would be a great time to change that :)

Edit: Suspect slots are a joke btw, nothing ever comes out of it and they are just for show nowadays; just takes up a slot that could be dedicated for a different tier (or another standard OU slot).
 
I agree with DugZa, I said it last year and as someone who made playoffs last year + has managed before the suspect slot is needlessly stressful if nothing is gonna come out of it tiering wise. Am also against a Bo3 slot it doesn't really seem that engaging, the playing ceiling of most SMOU players that sign up is high enough, the games aren't low quality for the most part. Am personally not for 12 slots in a OGPL but not vehemently against it so I won't say much more. Monotype is cool :thumbsup:
 
SM is one of ZU's most popular Old Gen and often has one of the most competitive pool in ZU team tournaments. I cant speak for other tiers, but you can be sure it will be a competitive pool and get more than enough signups. The ZU community is always happy with receiving more inclusion in such tournament's.
 
hello, former host here, I am very much in favor of removing suspect slots, despite advocating for them myself 3 years ago
suspect slots are only worth being included for formats where tiering discussions circle around un/banning some core element of the tier, which is not the case in SM at all

Echoing what Tuthur posted above, SM ZU is a very popular lesser played tier that fits right in for this kind of tour, especially with the addition of Mono.
I do support going 12 slots and adding Mono/ZU, more than AG which seems to have less support in general?
1x SM Ubers
3x SM OU
1x SM DOU
1x SM UU
1x SM RU
1x SM NU
1x SM PU
1x SM LC
1x SM ZU
1x SM Monotype
 
As a two-time SMPL manager (one-time champion woooo Wailords), i'm glad the suspect slot is gone. It was worth a try but as some have mentioned, nothing comes out of it tiering-wise, let alone the fact that one of your player has to actually build something and can't just reuse or be given teams. I know some people love to build, test and stuff but some are just lazy and only want to play their tour games. It just only adds extra hassle.

If we are to add another tier in this tour I think it should be either ZU or AG. I can't really speak for ZU outside of one tournament I participated in but i'm trusting tuthur's expertise on this matter. As for AG, I can personally say that this tier is full of motivated people and has a very competitive scene. Also, the tier is very fun to play and pretty easy to pick up.

I don't know if this on the table but we shouldn't have more than 3 OU slots. More than 3 slots will lessen the number of lower/UM tiers we can afford to have.

About 10 vs 12 slots, I personally think 12 is too much and we should stick to the original number of slots we've had until now (OU suspect slot becoming a third regular OU slot). However, if we go with 12 slots I think the format should be as follows:

1x SM AG
1x SM Ubers
3x SM OU
1x SM DOU
1x SM UU
1x SM RU
1x SM NU
1x SM PU
1x SM ZU
1x SM LC
 
I just want to quickly express my feelings about the removal of the suspect slot, which I believe is a concern shared by other players who care about SMOU. I understand the impression that it was taking up a slot for nothing, emphasizing SMOU over the entire generation. However, the suspect slot played a crucial role in ensuring healthy tiering decisions. Without intending to offend other communities, SMOU is simply much more active than the rest.
The suspect slot for Aegislash, for instance, helped discard the Pokemon as a viable option in a much faster process than any alternative, allowing experienced players to run a "what if" scenario. Most players ended up converging on the same opinion-that Aegislash's presence would lead to a catastrophic metagame dominated by weather wars.
Now that more exotic ideas like Mega Metagross and Aegislash have been tested, I think this was the perfect time to explore a tier without already-established and centralizing Pokemon. Tapu Lele is the best example of this. Since the beginning of the generation, its fairness has been a topic of discussion, with at least half of the active competitive community questioning whether it was handled correctly. Many feel that Lele is too centralizing or are simply curious about its impact. Personally, I don’t think Lele is problematic, but community sentiment should always take precedence over individual opinions.
Manaphy has also been at the center of recent discussions, particularly due to its role in rain teams and the unfair advantage provided by Tail Glow. It would have been interesting to test the tier without Manaphy lurking as a constant threat to fat/balance teams, forcing an offensive approach that isn’t necessarily healthier.
In my opinion, these two Pokemon would have been much more logical candidates for a suspect test compared to what we had in previous years, like Blaziken, Metagross, or Aegislash, whose outcomes were either entirely predictable or simply the result of certain influential players’ preferences.
All of this to say: the removal of the suspect slot couldn’t have happened at a worse time. We had just finished testing unbans that, frankly, didn’t make sense to some, while real concerns raised by the community were left unaddressed. With the metagame reaching an extreme level of matchup-based unfairness (it was never as extreme as rn) and offensive domination, this would have been the perfect time to properly evaluate potential bans (which a suspect slot is not a ban, just a simulation).
Finally, I’d like to know who exactly are making these decisions "collectively," because the process is rather unclear and we have no trace of it nor any info on its process. It could be just two people, a hundred people who don’t play SMOU at all and don’t care, or a single person pushing their own vision and hijacking the tier-something we’ve seen before. I feel like, in this light SMPL is presenting itself as an excuse for a tournament that isn’t being run in the best interest of the generation but rather to fit a predetermined schedule which I think was not the point of it previously.
 
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A suspect slot instead of adding a banned mon , we ban a current mon in the tier. This could perhaps show some worth coming out of the suspect slot
I just want to quickly express my feelings about the removal of the suspect slot, which I believe is a concern shared by other players who care about SMOU. I understand the impression that it was taking up a slot for nothing, emphasizing SMOU over the entire generation. However, the suspect slot played a crucial role in ensuring healthy tiering decisions. Without intending to offend other communities, SMOU is simply much more active than the rest.
The suspect slot for Aegislash, for instance, helped discard the Pokemon as a viable option in a much faster process than any alternative, allowing experienced players to run a "what if" scenario. Most players ended up converging on the same opinion-that Aegislash's presence would lead to a catastrophic metagame dominated by weather wars.
Now that more exotic ideas like Mega Metagross and Aegislash have been tested, I think this was the perfect time to explore a tier without already-established and centralizing Pokemon. Tapu Lele is the best example of this. Since the beginning of the generation, its fairness has been a topic of discussion, with at least half of the active competitive community questioning whether it was handled correctly. Many feel that Lele is too centralizing or are simply curious about its impact. Personally, I don’t think Lele is problematic, but community sentiment should always take precedence over individual opinions.
Manaphy has also been at the center of recent discussions, particularly due to its role in rain teams and the unfair advantage provided by Tail Glow. It would have been interesting to test the tier without Manaphy lurking as a constant threat to fat/balance teams, forcing an offensive approach that isn’t necessarily healthier.
In my opinion, these two Pokemon would have been much more logical candidates for a suspect test compared to what we had in previous years, like Blaziken, Metagross, or Aegislash, whose outcomes were either entirely predictable or simply the result of certain influential players’ preferences.
All of this to say: the removal of the suspect slot couldn’t have happened at a worse time. We had just finished testing unbans that, frankly, didn’t make sense to some, while real concerns raised by the community were left unaddressed. With the metagame reaching an extreme level of matchup-based unfairness and offensive domination, this would have been the perfect time to properly evaluate potential bans.
Finally, I’d like to know who exactly are making these decisions "collectively," because the process is rather unclear and we have no trace of it nor any info on its process. It could be just two people, a hundred people who don’t play SMOU at all and don’t care, or a single person pushing their own vision and hijacking the tier—something we’ve seen before. I feel like, in this light SMPL is present itself as an excuse for a tournament that isn’t being run in the best interest of the generation but rather to fit a predetermined schedule which I think was not the point of it previously.
 
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