You realize that Stealth Rocks and Spikes offer long term benefits, right?
No, you can heal the damage easily, so no. With toxic spikes you need something like Natural Cure or Aromatherapy to remove it.
Sticky Webs is also exclusively for Hyper Offensive teams across all singles tiers.
I run almost exclusively that kind of team, as well as the fact I'm getting wrecked by that kind of team the most often. Probs why I value it more than you because I can actually see that it works. It also completely ruins any fast sweeper that lacks any bulk.
Toxic Spikes AND Sticky Webs do also get removed by Rapid Spin and Defog.
Do you need a drawing explaining why even with these 2 moves these entry hazards are still helping while spikes and stealth rock immediately stop doing anything when they get yeeted and you have to replace them?
Oh yeah sure use Rapid Spin when all your 6 pokemons are already poisoned, that'll show 'em!
You are also supposed to play around their counterplay, i.e. switching a Ghost-type into Rapid Spin (just an example).
Bro it's monotype. There are many types that don't have ghost as a secondary typing. Where's rock/ghost? it's become a meme with how many pokemons have ceramic or stone-like parts but lack the rock typing.
Also I literally don't know which pokemon run rapid spin and I suck at predicting, like literally my number 1 reason why I wanted to get rid of Sneasler was because it was a set designed to be good only if I can predict right.
Honestly having to make posts consistently trying to tell you that a fundamental part of the game is actually good is absurd to me.
And I still don't understand what's your deal with this. Like how the hell is a free toxic somehow worse than chip damage since y'all keep saying
spikes > toxic spikes, it makes absolutely no sense to me, it's like saying "confusion is better than paralysis because confusion also hurts the pokemon" and I seriously hope you're not also agreeing with the quoted meme example. I literally don't have to run toxic on this team thanks to toxic spikes and if I did it would probably be used against flying types and other mons who aren't affected by it who by now make up a very small minority, might aswell just hit them hard until they faint. Anyways flying types aren't known for their good bulk other than Lugia and Corviknight (although this guy is immune to toxic either way) AFAIK.
I don't understand why you're so adamant that spikes and rocks are bad. They're both amazing moves. I'm not a monotype player, but I do play quite a bit of gen 7 ph and I can say for a fact that in a metagame where anything can run 200 bp moves or +2 omniboosts at their leisure, hazards are damn near required on every team. Literally every team archetype benefits from the chip damage from spikes and rocks, with offensive teams enjoying the easier kills and bulky teams being able to force long term chip. In low ladder games, a good team should be able to break past easily anyways. Spikes and rocks easily force chip on about everything whereas tspikes can be removed on switchin and have a lot of mons immune to them, including most defoggers.
Tldr: Spikes and rocks are amazing, every archetype in every metagame can use them well.
I think I explained clearly (multiple times!) why I don't like them in a vacuum.
Short term sucks in the lower ladder cos nobody switches out and the upper ladder has players prepared for it (defog, rapid spin). That's what you're not understanding. Also toxic spikes benefits stall teams/walls, + hex, venoshock and poison barb users and to my knowledge hex is a fairly popular move to run due to the good offensive typing that is ghost.
They are fine on hazard setting teams because you build around the gimmick like I said here:
Entry hazards are only good if you fully invest in them (IE I run a Pokemon with 2 if not 3 moves that set up hazards or spread those moves across multiple pokemons like Kleavor, Samurott, Galvantula, etc).
and I'm prolly running whirlwind or similar on a team like that. In a vacuum though, it sucks. I really don't think we are playing the same game because I don't see why you'd think an itty bitty 1/8 chip damage matters at all. I've lost more often to toxic spikes and sticky web than both spikes and stealth rock combined, they only become a problem when you run them together or with toxic spikes and sticky web or if I have a pokemon on very low health. Everytime I had someone toss 1 layer of spikes to my side I simply didn't care and made quick work of them, I only try to remove entry hazards when it's toxic spikes, sticky web or multiple layers of spikes/stealth rock because it actually ruins the team I'm running. Like it's completely irrelevant to me and only starts becoming relevant when it is used a few times, at the very least, Stealth Rock only needs to be used once.
The fact so many ppl here keep insisting
spikes > toxic spikes because steel and poison are also unaffected by it
when it's literally a free TOXIC on 90% of the roster when set up right is crazy I don't know how the hell you're playing on the upper ladder, but it's not like a normal person would play the game that's for sure.
