Would Dialga-O and Ho-Oh be too lacking in power for a TR setup? I love Dialga so it's not coming out but I'm still pretty new and figuring out VGC
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
★ VGC 2025 Regulation I Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter Princess Autumn
- Start date
Dialga-O+Ho-Oh I feel have a problem with damage output and having a bad matchup vs other restricteds (a well positioned Miraidon blow both of them up) and other common mons with Urshifu-R and Urshifu-S. You could try something like Dialga-O+Calyrex-I and have some sort of Hard Trick Room aspect, but generally it's just bad restricted + shaky restricted, I dont think it'll work out.
I was trying to build that recently, and tried out some different things such as pairing with Grimmsnarl so that with screens I could emphasize the already great bulk that both Pokémon have as well as I had some hopes for their defensive type coverage. However, yeah, they are definitely both lacking in the offensive portion and so you aren't exactly getting OHKOs or anything. Ursaluna is obviously solid in Trick Room and it's no issue being able to Earthquake next to either of your restricted Pokémon, but even that isn't a great selling point on the pair.
I've thought about trying Grimmsnarl soon as a Fairy support after using Whimsicott but Scream Tail is the current mon I'm using in that slot and has been nice even without setting any screens. Non prankster encore helps into a lot of mons and it still seems to be bulky enough to survive and setup TR granted I've only used it for a few games so far
Idk, i feel itd still be decent. Anti-weather is most likely the weakest argument to it being mid, i'm willing to bet groudon is on less than 3% of teams, and kyogre is naturally slower than koraidon so with right positoning it often wins the weather war, not to mention if your weather is up and you predict koraidon switching in you can often ice beam it for a lot of damage, while that's a specific situation i think the point gets across. Also calm mind isn't its best set in my opinion, but that's more subjective.
Now I don't think swordfish is even close to the levels of caly-I/miraidon or caly-s/zamacenta-c, however i definetely don't think its mid by any means. Your Zamazenta-c points and water spout points are strong, specially the water spout one, however as someone who plays swordfish 90% of the time because i love a gameplay based on positioning, i believe its weaknesses are often covered by its partners. Zamazenta-c can be covered by zacian, who deals very good damage with sacred sword (even without the attack boost), and if zamazenta tera dragons, play rough does good damage also (only with atk boost tho), and tornadus can tailwind to help kyogres water spout, also its one of the slowest restricteds which means against other restricteds it'll often outspeed in TR. I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, i don't think we'll be seeing swordfish often, but it's definetely not mid.
i mean, you can say this abt basically any restricted pairing. swordfish is not the best restricted pair at playing a positioning-based game. swordfish is also uniquely awful into the metagame making it worse at playing into those positioning based games. it's a lot harder for swordfish to gain an advantage in this format than it was in VGC 22, i believe you're largely shooting yourself in the foot by playing two mid restricteds together.
zacian is not at all a consistent check to zamazenta-c. neutral sacred sword doesn't even 2HKO, and if you can't force tera then the same goes for tera fairy play rough. into zamazenta teams you need to be able to remove zamazenta or its ability to wide guard ASAP so you aren't forced to play around it with kyogre, and since zacian is often fairly ineffective at this, it's an unnecessarily uphill matchup. why would i choose to play something with a bad matchup into the top restricted pairings such that it makes me have to significantly outplay to win every time. i would rather win more in the builder by creating a team that has decent-to-positive matchups across the board that doesn't force me to have an uphill battle into some of the best archtypes in the metagame
its speed tier is rly awful for this reason, it will always get out-offensed in both the tailwind and trick room matchups because of its middling speed tier. it's not slow enough to be a tr sweeper and not fast enough to win tailwind mirrors. the csr zama tailwind and koraidon lunala semiroom matchups are literally abominable because they have both ways to shut down your kyogre (wide guard, sun from korai) and ways of forcing the speed control advantage in their favor (trick room and tailwind respectively).
IMO swordfish is just too flawed in the builder to rly ever be worth bringing to a serious match/tournament. unless there is a significant change in the meta or new tech is discovered that can somehow make it work (doubt) then swordfish is going to be mid and stay mid
Your argumentents are valid, and I wasnt nessecarily saying you were wrong about any of them, however im a bit confused about something. I dont know if im having a misunderstanding of what you're saying, but when you said "neutral sacred sword" do you mean type effectiveness? Cause steel/fighting is weak to fighting, also it does 2HKO (tell me if i did something wrong in the calcs) +2 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Sacred Sword vs. 100 HP / 236+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 132-156 (73.3 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (zacian isnt adamant since im running jolly 156 spe evs to outspeed 135s). Another clarification is I said itll outspeed other restricteds in TR, not that its a reliable tr mon, it only is when theres another restricted on the field and tr is up. Also my bad for saying the positioning thing, i meant only against koraidon and groudon as positioning is important, also fogot to mention tornadus manual rain dance helps on weather wars. Once again we wont be seeing much of swordfish, and i believe i cant really change your opinion on it being mid, on most discussions you often just cant, however i do believe its good not mid, and im reaffirming that.
I think in the early format its difficult to definitively say whether a restricted is top tier, simply because lots of archetypes aren't fully fleshed out. I remember back in reg G lots of restricteds struggled early format, but teambuilders didn't give up on them because they had enough merit to be worth using. Think of the likes of Kyogre, Groudon, Zacian-C, Lunala, even Zamazenta-C (which I admit was not held in massive regard before the format) took a couple of regionals to really develop. Miraidon couldn't buy a result before the first regional and Koraidon was a mid restricted up until the final stretch of reg G where it took tonnes of results. Trying to get something to work that others have overlooked because you believe it has enough intrinsic strength is a merit of a teambuilder as opposed to a weakness.
We are still definitely in that early format stage where a lot of the restricteds pairings that have seen good success are the ones that are easier to build. Think Zama+CSR, Mirai + CIR, even Koala. Because of this I don't think its particularly time to read too hard into the meta, thats more for the worlds/internationals imo, just try to build with what you think has intrinsic strength.
We are still definitely in that early format stage where a lot of the restricteds pairings that have seen good success are the ones that are easier to build. Think Zama+CSR, Mirai + CIR, even Koala. Because of this I don't think its particularly time to read too hard into the meta, thats more for the worlds/internationals imo, just try to build with what you think has intrinsic strength.
neutral as in when Zacian has been intimidated and is no longer at +1 to clarify
Thx for the clarifiication, however if this is true, i believe i'm doing something wrong in the calcs then: +1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Sacred Sword vs. 100 HP / 236+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 100-118 (55.5 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Idk why it says +1 when i putted no stat boosts)
It automatically goes to +1 cause of intrepid sword, similar to how a lot of calcs into incin are automatically -1 as it assumes you are intimidated, or how it will consume an electric seed for you in e terrain. Can be fixed by just making zacian -1, that way it goes to neutral
Oh ok thx (now i have to revise all of my calcs :()
I've decided to throw myself into ladder with Swordfish since I love the two Pokemon and to be honest its felt quite good, the team is a work in progress but many match ups feel great and the team is easy to use. Keep in mind I'm only just talking about Swordfish being decent and usable, its definitely not on par with the top cores like Miraidon Calyrex-Ice and Koraidon Lunala and has many issues. I just think they're currently being exagerrated.
How consistent is Kyogre's Water Spout?
Despite Kyogre's low speed tier, Tailwind ensures Kyogre outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame. Opposing Tailwind is actually not that common, with Tornadus and Whimsicott having a combined 18% usage in top 256 at Utretcht, and 20% in day 2. I'm sure there are other Tailwind setters faster than Kyogre like Iron Jugulis and Roaring Moon, but theyre much rarer and don't add much to the actual number. Your same Tornadus has access to Taunt to shut down Wide Guard, and another tool I want to get into later. Kyogre can consistently click a powerful Water Spout in the large majority of matches.
How Important is Zacian?
Zacian's crucial ability to dismantle Miraidon and Grimmsnarl is great, this allows for interactions like Taunting Lunala and being okay with sacrificing your speed control, as Zacian can reliably take care of the faster threats. This is the same for Koraidon, especially alongside Weezing. These cores make it hard to use a full BP Water Spout or even Tornadus' Rain Dance. Zacian's ability to threaten OHKOs on both and even scout with Substitute makes it dangerous. Zacian can also sometimes lock in Incineroar during team preview, giving Kyogre a free Water Spout chance can be deadly.
What about the weather war?
Very few Prankster Pokemon are using weather setting moves, so Tornadus can aid Kyogre to lead this match up, especially with support from Zacian-C pressuring the few Water resists. Koraidon getting weaker with Rain is also extremely important, as Tornadus can shrug off its attacks and it pressures other Pokemon like Raging Bolt to Tera in the face of Zacian as well.
The Supporting Cast and the Kyogre set
Too many people maintain a standard defensive Tornadus with Bleakwind Storm and then complain about Kyogre when running into Rillaboom or Amoonguss. I think Tornadus should really be running Modest Hurricane as it can pull off things like nuke Koraidon and do over 70% to AV Rillaboom (OHKO with Helping Hand!), this is while still having the bulk to take Life Orb Astral Barrage and Tera Water Surging Strikes. This leads me to bringing a less common face to the scene, Farigiraf. The only Kyogre with Farigiraf right now are thanks to the other Restricted, Miraidon or Calyrex-Ice, however Farigiraf can be just as important for Kyogre. Many Kyogre are using Tera Grass to get around Rillaboom and Raging Bolt, letting them launch high BP Water Spouts, but what if, that didnt matter? what if you could go full agro, can you even do that?
236+ SpA Mystic Water Tera-Water Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom in Rain: 105-124 (50.7 - 59.9%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
236+ SpA Mystic Water Tera-Water Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 188 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Raging Bolt in Rain: 102-120 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 38.67% chance to 2HKO
These once major counters can no longer switch in and shut Kyogre down, and simply switching in Farigiraf can let Kyogre nuke them off the planet. This is even more important vs Terapagos compositions which can Fake Out cycle you as they set up their Calm Minds and take you on. Even without Tera Water you can instantly take half of their health regardless of weather they commit Tera or not, and put them in a much dicier situation with a potential Helping Hand or Taunt.
Why is Swordfish not meta then?
Obviously this core of Pokemon isn't perfect, even with Taunt, Tornadus cant stick around longer than Zamazenta-C, so you need to dedicate slots for it. You also need to account for Tera Water CIR, especially with Leech Seed, as it can wall the whole team and wrack up As One boosts. This is all without mentioning the inaccuracies, Play Rough, Origin Pulse, Hurricane, you're gonna miss once when it really matters and these are risks you have to accept before playing. I do think people will continue to use it and quite a few will have great placements, because the team isn't bad at all it just requires more innovation and to accept the risks that come with it.
How consistent is Kyogre's Water Spout?
Despite Kyogre's low speed tier, Tailwind ensures Kyogre outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame. Opposing Tailwind is actually not that common, with Tornadus and Whimsicott having a combined 18% usage in top 256 at Utretcht, and 20% in day 2. I'm sure there are other Tailwind setters faster than Kyogre like Iron Jugulis and Roaring Moon, but theyre much rarer and don't add much to the actual number. Your same Tornadus has access to Taunt to shut down Wide Guard, and another tool I want to get into later. Kyogre can consistently click a powerful Water Spout in the large majority of matches.
How Important is Zacian?
Zacian's crucial ability to dismantle Miraidon and Grimmsnarl is great, this allows for interactions like Taunting Lunala and being okay with sacrificing your speed control, as Zacian can reliably take care of the faster threats. This is the same for Koraidon, especially alongside Weezing. These cores make it hard to use a full BP Water Spout or even Tornadus' Rain Dance. Zacian's ability to threaten OHKOs on both and even scout with Substitute makes it dangerous. Zacian can also sometimes lock in Incineroar during team preview, giving Kyogre a free Water Spout chance can be deadly.
What about the weather war?
Very few Prankster Pokemon are using weather setting moves, so Tornadus can aid Kyogre to lead this match up, especially with support from Zacian-C pressuring the few Water resists. Koraidon getting weaker with Rain is also extremely important, as Tornadus can shrug off its attacks and it pressures other Pokemon like Raging Bolt to Tera in the face of Zacian as well.
The Supporting Cast and the Kyogre set
Too many people maintain a standard defensive Tornadus with Bleakwind Storm and then complain about Kyogre when running into Rillaboom or Amoonguss. I think Tornadus should really be running Modest Hurricane as it can pull off things like nuke Koraidon and do over 70% to AV Rillaboom (OHKO with Helping Hand!), this is while still having the bulk to take Life Orb Astral Barrage and Tera Water Surging Strikes. This leads me to bringing a less common face to the scene, Farigiraf. The only Kyogre with Farigiraf right now are thanks to the other Restricted, Miraidon or Calyrex-Ice, however Farigiraf can be just as important for Kyogre. Many Kyogre are using Tera Grass to get around Rillaboom and Raging Bolt, letting them launch high BP Water Spouts, but what if, that didnt matter? what if you could go full agro, can you even do that?
236+ SpA Mystic Water Tera-Water Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom in Rain: 105-124 (50.7 - 59.9%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
236+ SpA Mystic Water Tera-Water Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 188 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Raging Bolt in Rain: 102-120 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 38.67% chance to 2HKO
These once major counters can no longer switch in and shut Kyogre down, and simply switching in Farigiraf can let Kyogre nuke them off the planet. This is even more important vs Terapagos compositions which can Fake Out cycle you as they set up their Calm Minds and take you on. Even without Tera Water you can instantly take half of their health regardless of weather they commit Tera or not, and put them in a much dicier situation with a potential Helping Hand or Taunt.
Why is Swordfish not meta then?
Obviously this core of Pokemon isn't perfect, even with Taunt, Tornadus cant stick around longer than Zamazenta-C, so you need to dedicate slots for it. You also need to account for Tera Water CIR, especially with Leech Seed, as it can wall the whole team and wrack up As One boosts. This is all without mentioning the inaccuracies, Play Rough, Origin Pulse, Hurricane, you're gonna miss once when it really matters and these are risks you have to accept before playing. I do think people will continue to use it and quite a few will have great placements, because the team isn't bad at all it just requires more innovation and to accept the risks that come with it.
https://pokepast.es/1b600d305fa8c6bd
Is this team good?
Flutter Mane is REALLY strong and fast. With proto (curtesy of korai) it out speeds everything except for opposing flutter and bundle as most base 135s don't run scarf. Dazzling Gleam and shadow is for strong stab. Icy wind is for speed control. Covert cloak is to win the mirror matchup.
Iron Bundle is my speed booster because it is the fastest thing in the format and reliably use icy wind first. Encore is punish opposing flutter for clicking icy wind,caly-s using plot,zama using iron def, and trick room users. Freeze-dry is strong stab that can 2hko kyogre to stop it from removing sun. T ghost for fake out immunity.
Koraidon is strong psy attacker that can break normal and dark types for clayrex and with stab cc. Pretty much standard set.
Calyrex-S can clean-up after koraidon removes incineroar. It has will o wisp to cripple its fellow ice horse but you can ran np. Psyshock is for spdef pokemon and astral barrage bc its a dumb af move.
Farigaraf is here to stop fake out from happening. Throat spray combos with hyper voice so it output big spread dmg with h voice and have a stronger psychic. Helping to boost teammates damage and help calyrex get going.
Ogperpon is for follow me support and has those strong ivy cudgels and power whip for consistent dmg. I think wellspring might be better here but idrk.
Last edited:
hi, this isn't really the channel for this, you can either go to the RMT Subforum and write up a post or the Rate-My-Team section of the Smogon Discord
thanks!
Honestly I don't see why someone would run 2 fast Icy Wind users on the same team even if Iron Bundle is faster than Flutter
Personal Non-Restricted VR (ordered within tiers):
The undisputed king of this format IMO. Consistently the most used Pokemon, and for good reason. The golden trio of Fake Out, Intimidate, and a pivoting option (Parting Shot or U-turn) would already make a Pokemon really strong, but it gets even crazier. This dude has Snarl to better answer Lunala and CSR, Will-O-Wisp to further cripple Physical Attackers, Knock Off to remove items, Helping Hand to make its allies (notably ally restricted Pokemon) busted as fuck, and the list goes on.
Incineroar's set variance also really sets it apart. You could click Electro Drift into it expecting the fire cat to die, but you forgot about Assault Vest and get Knocked. You try and Surging Strikes it? Rocky Helmet punishes it you for it. Oh, it surely can't get around Spore, right? Or maybe my own Fake Out? I introduce Safety Goggles and Covert Cloak. While yes, any Pokemon can run these items, Incineroar is just a better abuser of them over most Pokemon.
Yeah, the IncinGOAT stays at the top of this metaphorical food web.
The best Pokemon of last format comes back, swinging hard. You all know the drill by now; Urshifu-R uses its cheater mechanics - ahem - perfectly balanced mechanics to terrorize literally everything. This Pokemon is much more straightforward than Incineroar, however, making it easier to beat (i.e. Raging Bolt}. Still, this Pokemon can run some niche tech like Taunt, Rock Tomb, and Coaching depending on what its teammates request.
Similar to Incineroar, Rillaboom has access to pivoting + Fake Out, but no Intimidate. In place of this, Rillaboom gets the ability to shut down Miraidon and Indeedee-F's. With Assault Vest, Rillaboom becomes a Miraidon check (especially if using High Horsepower). Even more niche builds with items like Choice Band, Sitrus Berry, Miracle Seed, or tech like Knock Off and Drum Beating see success from time to time thanks to Rillaboom's inherently good traits.
This bear has made huge waves in the competitive scene in early Regulation I. With strong Facade and Headlong Rush, this Pokemon, with the aid of speed control, is capable of just stealing games. Only issue really is Calyrex-I, and Lunala which can sometimes become bothersome. Ursaluna is a very, very straightforward Pokemon, so it can get bullied by Pokemon like Rillaboom. Still busted as fuck, Facade deletes things...
TBH, this dude and Ursaluna are about equal level. Ursaluna just felt stronger so I moved it up, but this doesn't mean Iron Hands is bad. It also gets Fake Out + pivot, yet rarely runs Volt Switch. Iron Hands is able to use its high attack to defeat the heaviest Pokemon like Kyogre and Miraidon with Low Kick while blowing through Ghosts with Wild Charge. Pretty straightforward, has been very consistent. Only thing holding it back is probably just the fact that there are other Fake Out users that, most of the time (basically outside of Miraidon), are better.
Flutter Mane exploded in popularity alongside Koraidon (mostly the "Koala" archetype), mostly thanks to its Sash sets. With its naturally good speed and boosted speed under sun, it is able to use its strong speed control options in Thunder Wave and Icy Wind too beat out even the fastest Pokemon. Moonblast and Shadow Ball are also really strong, hitting hard into Koraidon and CSR. Minor issue: you get chipped easily and lose to Urshifu-R when not in sun.
Chien-Pao has come back with a spark in this format, especially with its strong Life Orb sets, but also the good ol' reliable Sash builds. With a good speed tier and a huge damage output, this Pokemon's got it all, right (also busted ass ability)? Well, some very common meta threats like Urshifu-R, Incineroar, and especially Zamazenta-C give it trouble. It is, in turn, good partners for both Urshifu-R and Zamazenta-C though. Huh. Funny.
Not much to be said here; same old, same old. Tailwind and weather is a potent combination, this time using Bleakwind Storm to a greater advantage with the abundance of Koraidon. It does sometimes just sit on the field though. But yeah, reliable Pokemon.
Raging Bolt has seen a bit of a decline in popularity with the rise in popularity of Miraidon and Calyrex-I, but I still believe that this dude is great. Damage mitigation and speed control in Snarl and Electroweb is still strong as ever and Raging Bolt hits like a truck. Hopefully the former GOAT will make it back to the dominance it once had :(
Similar to Chien-Pao, a very strong Pokemon, potentially even stronger now with Calyrex formes, Lunala, and Zamazenta-C all getting threatened by Dark Pulse or Overheat. Unfortunately, this Pokemon finds tough times entering the field because it just gets fucked up so easily. It also almost always has to Tera in front of Fake Out if you're smart and you're running Scarf.
Ah yes, Whimsicott. A world champ. Tornados is still better IMO, but that's mostly because of this guy's far from stellar bulk. Yeah, the typing is good, but the stats arent. Moonblast and Encore pressure are really good though, and Light Screens is certainly great utility.
A very reliable TR setter capable of threatening both Calyrex formes and Lunala with Foul Play. Priority denial is also super nice, especially against Fake Out. Only issue here is that sometimes, it can be very passive, especially when in the face of things like Kyogre or Zamazenta-C. Honestly, Farigiraf could go a tier up for these high highs and not so low lows.
Stronk boi. Very solid redirection Pokemon with solid utility in Taunt and the newly used Knock Off. It is annoyed by many Non-Restricted Pokemon however, and hates the rather common Rocky Helmet breaking Sturdy. Also, Zamazenta-C and +1 Lunala (Moongeist beam ignores sturdy). Fake Out is always annoying as well as pretty much any random chip. Still really good though
Grimmsnarl has leaped into the scene and for good reason. Dual screens are just broken in a format with these strong and tanks guys rolling around. Thunder Wave is a great neutralizing tool and annoying as hell. Spirit Break and Foul Play round out the moveset, dealing with either special or physical attackers. This Pokemon is another one that could potentially go up.
TRANS RIGHTS! This shroom has consistently been shut down since the beginning, but players are finally starting to realise their mistakes. Spore and redirection are omega good in any format. Spore is kind of neutered though, specifically because of the Miraidon usage going up, with e-terrain denying Spore. Good Pokemon though, fits on so many different teams.
TBH, this guy should be B+ tier. It had a mini fall off alongside Koala teams but is still good regardless. Sucker Punch threatens a lot and so does Spore. With sun up, Brute Bonnet also becomes super physically bulky, letting it press Spore right in front of Calyrex-I while in Trick Room. IN TRICK ROOM!
Volcarona is a solid redirection Pokemon. Flame Body is really annoying for Zamazenta-C, and Quiver Dance Volcarona is actually a solid win condition. Without screens support from Grimmsnarl, it does feel kind of frail though (just from my testing).
Very good supportive option with Follow Me and Trick Room as well as Helping Hand. Psychic Terrain is always and will always be good, shutting down opposing Rillaboom and Miraidon terrain. Of course, this also works against it, especially since Indeedee doesn't actually have any offensive presence (passive).
This Pokemon fell off tbh, really doesn't like Miraidon and Lunala's popularity. Even with this, it is still good. Ivy Cudgel at +1 is really strong into Zama and CIR, with Grass-STAB hitting hard into Waters.
Landorus always feels underrated, especially right now. It hits hard into pretty much anything and hard checks Iron Hands. With this, you get hit hard back by a majority of the meta, so you definitely need some kind of speed control for this.
Dondozo has always been good. With Unaware + Commander boosts, you great out things like Zama, Zac, CIR, and CSR. Of course, Miraidon still blows you up and Urshifu/Chien-Pao can break you down with Crits and Sacred Sword, respectively. Solo dozo, although rare, also works with Yawn and stuff.
Fast Tailwind immune to prankster taunt? Sign me up! Roaring Moon also boasts good utility, notably Breaking Swipe and Knock Off. Even with your good stats, Roaring Moon can just die. Its typing is really bad, getting hit by restricted or their coverage reality hard.
Amazing support Pokemon, Spore, Wide Guard, Follow Me, Decorate, Fake Out, and more round out this Pokemon's options. Your speed tier is kind of weird though, and Urshifu exists. Not to mention Spore gets beat by Rage Powder since Smeargle isn't a grass type.
This dude just OHKOs Lunala, CSR, and does big damage into others. Kinda just clicks buttons. Fairy moves like DGleam from Miraidon, MBlast from Lunala, Flutter Mane, and more are really annoying though. You also compete with Urshifu-R.
Very new trend but has been seeing results. Very strong answer to Miraidon and CIR teams and Knock Off hits hard and is good utility. It does unfortunately lack in other Matchups though.
This dude forms the holy trinity between Koraidon CSR teams. Shutting down abilities is fundamentally broken, like stopping opposing weather, terrain, intimidate, you name it. It is also really passive though, which was noticed a lot in Portland.
A solid redirection option for many teams, Water Absorb is always nice into Urshifu or Kyogre. Kind of underrated honestly, Water-Grass is pretty good. It does come with its downsides though; a water weak to glacial lance, a grass vulnerable to electro drift, etc.
Literally a 3rd restricted -_-. I'd say the only reason it is this low is because sometimes Ditto can take quite a bit of skill when it comes down to positioning.
This guy singlehandedly makes Dondozo super broken. It does need Dondozo most of the time though. I say most of the time because solo Scarf tatsu is so fucking heat, Icy Wind and strong Dracos go hard.
Solid Koraidon and CIR answer, setting Rain is also good for Pokemon like Zacian-C (not weak to Ogerpon-H or Groudon, the latter thanks to both Rain and Wide Guard) and Urshifu-R. But like, what else does it do? I guess it does pretty nice into Zamazenta-C? Wide Guard is really good though...
Unburden seeds rng. Need I say more? Well, rng doesn't always work. Sneasler is also kind of weak for this format's standards in terms of power. Coaching sets next to CIR probably do well so its alright, just wish this guy would leave though.
Trapping is fundamentally broken, especially in weather matchups. You can sometimes jus take their restricted. Pair this with supportive options like Faks Out, Trick Room, and Taunt and Goth is the best support, right? WRONG! It kinda just sits there often times and doesn't provide much outside of trapping.
Similar to Torkoal (but a bit better), this guy launches massive damage into EVERYTHING. It does really need speed control in its favor though, and gets heavily threatened by common threats, including Fake Out.
Scream Tail is and always will be SO ANNOYING. Mostly used on adaptations from Wolfe's EUIC team, Scream Tail is a very bulky menace. It does, however, lose to Manu restricteds like Calyrex-S and Lunala though, which are more abundant than ever.
Maybe a bit of glaze, but I'm a true believer in this turtle. Tera Fire Eruption is super strong, just watch out for Wide Guard or Rain. Also, why not just use something like Groudon (unless hard TR baybeeee).
Howl is cool next to Groudon and potentially another physically attacking restricted. Also pairs nice with Lunala since Breaking Swipe and Burning Bulwark burns make up for Lunala's sometimes mediocre defense. Sometimes it can kind of feel useless though IMO.
This dude for real should be B tier LMAO. It shuts down Lunala and Calyrex-S and Miraidon entirely which is insane. You even eat hits from Calyrex-I. Zamazenta-C, Kyogre, Rillaboom.. Now that's a different story. This thing also chips things really well with Ruination, letting allies break through things like Zamazenta-C even if it is behind screens.
With Friend Guard and Eviolite bulk, this dude will always find a way to succeed. It has solid supportive options aside from Follow Me in Sing and Helping Hand, with After You saving Calyrex-S from Trick Room. Sometimes it just feels outclassed though by other redirectors like Amoomguss and Ogerpon.
This guy is like the definition of speed control, boasting the highest speed stat in the game and Electroweb to compliment that. It is really niche though and can't hit a lot of the Dragons and Grounds and Grasses in the format without Tera, also hard loses to TR.
Decent anti-Incineroar tech on non Clear Amulet Calyrex-I teams, also has a good typing into Calyrex-S and Lunala. Even with Low Kick, however, you get walled by Zamazenta-C and blown up by common threats like Miraidon and Urshifu. You also lose to Incineroar if they have Wisp, Blitz is scary too but manageable.
annoying asf with para spam, does need the right team though (and there aren't many "right teams")
Coaching and final gambit still good, just not as good (coaching is also done by urshifu)
Still a very powerful Pokemon despite the massive fall off. Hits hard in both TW and TR. Probably a bit better under TW since it guaranteed outspeed its Hisuian counterpart and CIR. This is a disadvantage in TR, since you can't under speed them.
Very little reason to not just use Weezing-G. You get a better MU into Zacian and Zamazenta though, as well as into other random Steels.
Budget speed control on Miraidon teams, could be really fun (and can be C or C+ tier, Freeze Dry and Encore are great)
Used this day 1 reg I with Groudon and certainly can ruin games, needs the team built around it though (and it is a support mon so not the best idea)
Fallen legend, with Tera Ice you OHKO Miraidon with Triple Axe and resist Calyrex-I. Could certainly put in work.
Passive version of Lilligant-H with Tailwind and Encore, really funny and infuriating.
Coaching and Wide Guard are truly a goated duo. Pair this with Feint and you have a weapon for Caly-I + Miraidon teams. Another one that could be C or C+ tier.
The former GOAT, could see it being a niche way to beat Miraidon and CSR with some kind of Scarf set using Crunch. Intimidate is always nice too.
Uh this dude should probably go unranked...
Very, very niche choice and was used to success at Milwaukee, Wide Guard makes this dude a solid check to Calyrex-I.
One of my favorites, little dude just can't really keep up. Trick Room and Tera Blast can still put in work, especially with immunities to Astral Barrage and Moongeist Beam.
Some Pokemon I forgot and should be up here:
B- Tier
Strong sun abuser that had a great finish at Portland with good representation, I think this Pokemon can go far. Issues I have do include that it does kind of rely on a offensive item like Specs and needs Sun. Also pretty trails but getting it set up can truly mutilate teams.
C+ Tier
This dude won Portland... It is a solid breaker in the late game into Lunala in particular, removing it for Kyogre to Water Spout. Life Orb and Rain Boosted Wave Crash is also strong. I don't think this guy lives Grassy Glide from Rillaboom/Ogerpon, Sucker Punch from Chien-Pao, or Thunderclap from Raging Bolt though...
B Tier
Good TW setter, especially on Kyogre teams. Snarl is always good and it has solid bulk. With Booster Energy you are insanely fast with powerful Hurricane. This may be because I'm on my DUU arc, but this guy is GOATED; kind of situational though.
C- or C Tier
Solid breaker Pokemon tbh, does lots of damage with Choice Band or can provide Snarl with AV. Very weak when used into Miraidon, Kyogre, Koraidon, and Ho-Oh though. Burn is always good though.
And some changes I would probably make since this was made before Portland and my mind changed lmao:
A- to B+
B- to B
C to B
C- to C+ or C
C- to C+ or C
C- --> UR
lmk if I missed anything because I 100% did LMAO (I will also update with some Pokemon that have potential later)
The undisputed king of this format IMO. Consistently the most used Pokemon, and for good reason. The golden trio of Fake Out, Intimidate, and a pivoting option (Parting Shot or U-turn) would already make a Pokemon really strong, but it gets even crazier. This dude has Snarl to better answer Lunala and CSR, Will-O-Wisp to further cripple Physical Attackers, Knock Off to remove items, Helping Hand to make its allies (notably ally restricted Pokemon) busted as fuck, and the list goes on.
Incineroar's set variance also really sets it apart. You could click Electro Drift into it expecting the fire cat to die, but you forgot about Assault Vest and get Knocked. You try and Surging Strikes it? Rocky Helmet punishes it you for it. Oh, it surely can't get around Spore, right? Or maybe my own Fake Out? I introduce Safety Goggles and Covert Cloak. While yes, any Pokemon can run these items, Incineroar is just a better abuser of them over most Pokemon.
Yeah, the IncinGOAT stays at the top of this metaphorical food web.
The best Pokemon of last format comes back, swinging hard. You all know the drill by now; Urshifu-R uses its cheater mechanics - ahem - perfectly balanced mechanics to terrorize literally everything. This Pokemon is much more straightforward than Incineroar, however, making it easier to beat (i.e. Raging Bolt}. Still, this Pokemon can run some niche tech like Taunt, Rock Tomb, and Coaching depending on what its teammates request.
Similar to Incineroar, Rillaboom has access to pivoting + Fake Out, but no Intimidate. In place of this, Rillaboom gets the ability to shut down Miraidon and Indeedee-F's. With Assault Vest, Rillaboom becomes a Miraidon check (especially if using High Horsepower). Even more niche builds with items like Choice Band, Sitrus Berry, Miracle Seed, or tech like Knock Off and Drum Beating see success from time to time thanks to Rillaboom's inherently good traits.
This bear has made huge waves in the competitive scene in early Regulation I. With strong Facade and Headlong Rush, this Pokemon, with the aid of speed control, is capable of just stealing games. Only issue really is Calyrex-I, and Lunala which can sometimes become bothersome. Ursaluna is a very, very straightforward Pokemon, so it can get bullied by Pokemon like Rillaboom. Still busted as fuck, Facade deletes things...
TBH, this dude and Ursaluna are about equal level. Ursaluna just felt stronger so I moved it up, but this doesn't mean Iron Hands is bad. It also gets Fake Out + pivot, yet rarely runs Volt Switch. Iron Hands is able to use its high attack to defeat the heaviest Pokemon like Kyogre and Miraidon with Low Kick while blowing through Ghosts with Wild Charge. Pretty straightforward, has been very consistent. Only thing holding it back is probably just the fact that there are other Fake Out users that, most of the time (basically outside of Miraidon), are better.
Flutter Mane exploded in popularity alongside Koraidon (mostly the "Koala" archetype), mostly thanks to its Sash sets. With its naturally good speed and boosted speed under sun, it is able to use its strong speed control options in Thunder Wave and Icy Wind too beat out even the fastest Pokemon. Moonblast and Shadow Ball are also really strong, hitting hard into Koraidon and CSR. Minor issue: you get chipped easily and lose to Urshifu-R when not in sun.
Chien-Pao has come back with a spark in this format, especially with its strong Life Orb sets, but also the good ol' reliable Sash builds. With a good speed tier and a huge damage output, this Pokemon's got it all, right (also busted ass ability)? Well, some very common meta threats like Urshifu-R, Incineroar, and especially Zamazenta-C give it trouble. It is, in turn, good partners for both Urshifu-R and Zamazenta-C though. Huh. Funny.
Not much to be said here; same old, same old. Tailwind and weather is a potent combination, this time using Bleakwind Storm to a greater advantage with the abundance of Koraidon. It does sometimes just sit on the field though. But yeah, reliable Pokemon.
Raging Bolt has seen a bit of a decline in popularity with the rise in popularity of Miraidon and Calyrex-I, but I still believe that this dude is great. Damage mitigation and speed control in Snarl and Electroweb is still strong as ever and Raging Bolt hits like a truck. Hopefully the former GOAT will make it back to the dominance it once had :(
Similar to Chien-Pao, a very strong Pokemon, potentially even stronger now with Calyrex formes, Lunala, and Zamazenta-C all getting threatened by Dark Pulse or Overheat. Unfortunately, this Pokemon finds tough times entering the field because it just gets fucked up so easily. It also almost always has to Tera in front of Fake Out if you're smart and you're running Scarf.
Ah yes, Whimsicott. A world champ. Tornados is still better IMO, but that's mostly because of this guy's far from stellar bulk. Yeah, the typing is good, but the stats arent. Moonblast and Encore pressure are really good though, and Light Screens is certainly great utility.
A very reliable TR setter capable of threatening both Calyrex formes and Lunala with Foul Play. Priority denial is also super nice, especially against Fake Out. Only issue here is that sometimes, it can be very passive, especially when in the face of things like Kyogre or Zamazenta-C. Honestly, Farigiraf could go a tier up for these high highs and not so low lows.
Stronk boi. Very solid redirection Pokemon with solid utility in Taunt and the newly used Knock Off. It is annoyed by many Non-Restricted Pokemon however, and hates the rather common Rocky Helmet breaking Sturdy. Also, Zamazenta-C and +1 Lunala (Moongeist beam ignores sturdy). Fake Out is always annoying as well as pretty much any random chip. Still really good though
Grimmsnarl has leaped into the scene and for good reason. Dual screens are just broken in a format with these strong and tanks guys rolling around. Thunder Wave is a great neutralizing tool and annoying as hell. Spirit Break and Foul Play round out the moveset, dealing with either special or physical attackers. This Pokemon is another one that could potentially go up.
TRANS RIGHTS! This shroom has consistently been shut down since the beginning, but players are finally starting to realise their mistakes. Spore and redirection are omega good in any format. Spore is kind of neutered though, specifically because of the Miraidon usage going up, with e-terrain denying Spore. Good Pokemon though, fits on so many different teams.
TBH, this guy should be B+ tier. It had a mini fall off alongside Koala teams but is still good regardless. Sucker Punch threatens a lot and so does Spore. With sun up, Brute Bonnet also becomes super physically bulky, letting it press Spore right in front of Calyrex-I while in Trick Room. IN TRICK ROOM!
Volcarona is a solid redirection Pokemon. Flame Body is really annoying for Zamazenta-C, and Quiver Dance Volcarona is actually a solid win condition. Without screens support from Grimmsnarl, it does feel kind of frail though (just from my testing).
Very good supportive option with Follow Me and Trick Room as well as Helping Hand. Psychic Terrain is always and will always be good, shutting down opposing Rillaboom and Miraidon terrain. Of course, this also works against it, especially since Indeedee doesn't actually have any offensive presence (passive).
This Pokemon fell off tbh, really doesn't like Miraidon and Lunala's popularity. Even with this, it is still good. Ivy Cudgel at +1 is really strong into Zama and CIR, with Grass-STAB hitting hard into Waters.
Landorus always feels underrated, especially right now. It hits hard into pretty much anything and hard checks Iron Hands. With this, you get hit hard back by a majority of the meta, so you definitely need some kind of speed control for this.
Dondozo has always been good. With Unaware + Commander boosts, you great out things like Zama, Zac, CIR, and CSR. Of course, Miraidon still blows you up and Urshifu/Chien-Pao can break you down with Crits and Sacred Sword, respectively. Solo dozo, although rare, also works with Yawn and stuff.
Fast Tailwind immune to prankster taunt? Sign me up! Roaring Moon also boasts good utility, notably Breaking Swipe and Knock Off. Even with your good stats, Roaring Moon can just die. Its typing is really bad, getting hit by restricted or their coverage reality hard.
Amazing support Pokemon, Spore, Wide Guard, Follow Me, Decorate, Fake Out, and more round out this Pokemon's options. Your speed tier is kind of weird though, and Urshifu exists. Not to mention Spore gets beat by Rage Powder since Smeargle isn't a grass type.
This dude just OHKOs Lunala, CSR, and does big damage into others. Kinda just clicks buttons. Fairy moves like DGleam from Miraidon, MBlast from Lunala, Flutter Mane, and more are really annoying though. You also compete with Urshifu-R.
Very new trend but has been seeing results. Very strong answer to Miraidon and CIR teams and Knock Off hits hard and is good utility. It does unfortunately lack in other Matchups though.
This dude forms the holy trinity between Koraidon CSR teams. Shutting down abilities is fundamentally broken, like stopping opposing weather, terrain, intimidate, you name it. It is also really passive though, which was noticed a lot in Portland.
A solid redirection option for many teams, Water Absorb is always nice into Urshifu or Kyogre. Kind of underrated honestly, Water-Grass is pretty good. It does come with its downsides though; a water weak to glacial lance, a grass vulnerable to electro drift, etc.
Literally a 3rd restricted -_-. I'd say the only reason it is this low is because sometimes Ditto can take quite a bit of skill when it comes down to positioning.
This guy singlehandedly makes Dondozo super broken. It does need Dondozo most of the time though. I say most of the time because solo Scarf tatsu is so fucking heat, Icy Wind and strong Dracos go hard.
Solid Koraidon and CIR answer, setting Rain is also good for Pokemon like Zacian-C (not weak to Ogerpon-H or Groudon, the latter thanks to both Rain and Wide Guard) and Urshifu-R. But like, what else does it do? I guess it does pretty nice into Zamazenta-C? Wide Guard is really good though...
Unburden seeds rng. Need I say more? Well, rng doesn't always work. Sneasler is also kind of weak for this format's standards in terms of power. Coaching sets next to CIR probably do well so its alright, just wish this guy would leave though.
Trapping is fundamentally broken, especially in weather matchups. You can sometimes jus take their restricted. Pair this with supportive options like Faks Out, Trick Room, and Taunt and Goth is the best support, right? WRONG! It kinda just sits there often times and doesn't provide much outside of trapping.
Similar to Torkoal (but a bit better), this guy launches massive damage into EVERYTHING. It does really need speed control in its favor though, and gets heavily threatened by common threats, including Fake Out.
Scream Tail is and always will be SO ANNOYING. Mostly used on adaptations from Wolfe's EUIC team, Scream Tail is a very bulky menace. It does, however, lose to Manu restricteds like Calyrex-S and Lunala though, which are more abundant than ever.
Maybe a bit of glaze, but I'm a true believer in this turtle. Tera Fire Eruption is super strong, just watch out for Wide Guard or Rain. Also, why not just use something like Groudon (unless hard TR baybeeee).
Howl is cool next to Groudon and potentially another physically attacking restricted. Also pairs nice with Lunala since Breaking Swipe and Burning Bulwark burns make up for Lunala's sometimes mediocre defense. Sometimes it can kind of feel useless though IMO.
This dude for real should be B tier LMAO. It shuts down Lunala and Calyrex-S and Miraidon entirely which is insane. You even eat hits from Calyrex-I. Zamazenta-C, Kyogre, Rillaboom.. Now that's a different story. This thing also chips things really well with Ruination, letting allies break through things like Zamazenta-C even if it is behind screens.
With Friend Guard and Eviolite bulk, this dude will always find a way to succeed. It has solid supportive options aside from Follow Me in Sing and Helping Hand, with After You saving Calyrex-S from Trick Room. Sometimes it just feels outclassed though by other redirectors like Amoomguss and Ogerpon.
This guy is like the definition of speed control, boasting the highest speed stat in the game and Electroweb to compliment that. It is really niche though and can't hit a lot of the Dragons and Grounds and Grasses in the format without Tera, also hard loses to TR.
Decent anti-Incineroar tech on non Clear Amulet Calyrex-I teams, also has a good typing into Calyrex-S and Lunala. Even with Low Kick, however, you get walled by Zamazenta-C and blown up by common threats like Miraidon and Urshifu. You also lose to Incineroar if they have Wisp, Blitz is scary too but manageable.
annoying asf with para spam, does need the right team though (and there aren't many "right teams")
Coaching and final gambit still good, just not as good (coaching is also done by urshifu)
Still a very powerful Pokemon despite the massive fall off. Hits hard in both TW and TR. Probably a bit better under TW since it guaranteed outspeed its Hisuian counterpart and CIR. This is a disadvantage in TR, since you can't under speed them.
Very little reason to not just use Weezing-G. You get a better MU into Zacian and Zamazenta though, as well as into other random Steels.
Budget speed control on Miraidon teams, could be really fun (and can be C or C+ tier, Freeze Dry and Encore are great)
Used this day 1 reg I with Groudon and certainly can ruin games, needs the team built around it though (and it is a support mon so not the best idea)
Fallen legend, with Tera Ice you OHKO Miraidon with Triple Axe and resist Calyrex-I. Could certainly put in work.
Passive version of Lilligant-H with Tailwind and Encore, really funny and infuriating.
Coaching and Wide Guard are truly a goated duo. Pair this with Feint and you have a weapon for Caly-I + Miraidon teams. Another one that could be C or C+ tier.
The former GOAT, could see it being a niche way to beat Miraidon and CSR with some kind of Scarf set using Crunch. Intimidate is always nice too.
Uh this dude should probably go unranked...
Very, very niche choice and was used to success at Milwaukee, Wide Guard makes this dude a solid check to Calyrex-I.
One of my favorites, little dude just can't really keep up. Trick Room and Tera Blast can still put in work, especially with immunities to Astral Barrage and Moongeist Beam.
Some Pokemon I forgot and should be up here:
B- TierStrong sun abuser that had a great finish at Portland with good representation, I think this Pokemon can go far. Issues I have do include that it does kind of rely on a offensive item like Specs and needs Sun. Also pretty trails but getting it set up can truly mutilate teams.
C+ TierThis dude won Portland... It is a solid breaker in the late game into Lunala in particular, removing it for Kyogre to Water Spout. Life Orb and Rain Boosted Wave Crash is also strong. I don't think this guy lives Grassy Glide from Rillaboom/Ogerpon, Sucker Punch from Chien-Pao, or Thunderclap from Raging Bolt though...
B TierGood TW setter, especially on Kyogre teams. Snarl is always good and it has solid bulk. With Booster Energy you are insanely fast with powerful Hurricane. This may be because I'm on my DUU arc, but this guy is GOATED; kind of situational though.
C- or C TierSolid breaker Pokemon tbh, does lots of damage with Choice Band or can provide Snarl with AV. Very weak when used into Miraidon, Kyogre, Koraidon, and Ho-Oh though. Burn is always good though.
And some changes I would probably make since this was made before Portland and my mind changed lmao:
A- to B+ B- to B C to B C- to C+ or C C- to C+ or C C- --> URlmk if I missed anything because I 100% did LMAO (I will also update with some Pokemon that have potential later)
I'm newer to the competitive scene, but I've always been super fascinated and I'm wanting to start getting into it. My current team is Urshifu RS, Incin, Archaludon, Kyogre, Miraidon, and Amoonguss. I haven't started crafting any sets for them yet, I'm just wondering if this team has any viability, or if I could get some opinions or ideas for teambuilding. Thanks!
As I'm thinking through it, I realize I lack any form of speed control.
You can definitely benefit from speed control by using Tornadus for Tailwind, but using Miraidon means that you lose the option to use Kyogre's best partners that is Rillaboom + Amoonguss, which can be a problem (Hadron Engine overwrites Grassy Terrain, and you can't put opponents to sleep in Electric Terrain).
I recommend using Calyrex-I or Zacian-C as a different restricted, Calyrex-I provides another form of speed control if Tailwind is undesirable, and Ice coverage is very helpful for Dragon- and Grass-types that resist Water Spout, making more it spammable. It also forces Koraidon to tera into a Fire-type, making it much more vulnerable to Kyogre even in sun, which is important since Koraidon otherwise would wall Kyogre.
Zacian-C has very nice Steel / Fairy typing that compliments well with Kyogre, with Kyogre resisting Fire-type attacks and weakening them with rain, and Zacian-C resisting Grass-types while also doing well against Miraidon and Koraidon which can (just like Calyrex-I) force them to tera, making them more vulnerable to Kyogre.
Sorry I typed up a storm lmao, but overall, I think the team is solid, but for improvements I would go for:
/ 
Also, asking in Pokemon Showdown VGC chatroom or in Smogon VGC Discord would be better if you want advice
Last edited:
Thank you, it was late when I put these mons together and I completely overlooked ET completely gutting Amoonguss Spore lol. And yeah, I'll check out the showdown chat rooms. Thanks again!You can definitely benefit from speed control by using Tornadus for Tailwind, but using Miraidon means that you lose the option to use Kyogre's best partners that is Rillaboom + Amoonguss, which can be a problem (Hadron Engine overwrites Grassy Terrain, and you can't put opponents to sleep in Electric Terrain).
I recommend using Calyrex-I or Zacian-C as a different restricted, Calyrex-I provides another form of speed control if Tailwind is undesirable, and Ice coverage is very helpful for Dragon- and Grass-types that resist Water Spout, making more it spammable. It also forces Koraidon to tera into a Fire-type, making it much more vulnerable to Kyogre even in sun, which is important since Koraidon otherwise would wall Kyogre.
Zacian-C has very nice Steel / Fairy typing that compliments well with Kyogre, with Kyogre resisting Fire-type attacks and weakening them with rain, and Zacian-C resisting Grass-types while also doing well against Miraidon and Koraidon which can (just like Calyrex-I) force them to tera, making them more vulnerable to Kyogre.
Sorry I typed up a storm lmao, but overall, I think the team is solid, but for improvements I would go for:
:calyrex ice rider: / :zacian crowed:
Also, asking in Pokemon Showdown VGC chatroom or in Smogon VGC Discord would be better if you want advice
It's veery late so I don't have time for any hyper-specific calcs, but this is my rough draft for the team. I haven't had any practice matches with it so I can't know for sure if I'll enjoy it, but I like the looks of it so far. Thank you for your help, I'll try it out and do more tinkering tomorrow.
https://pokepast.es/f92091f543138e18
You can definitely benefit from speed control by using Tornadus for Tailwind, but using Miraidon means that you lose the option to use Kyogre's best partners that is Rillaboom + Amoonguss, which can be a problem (Hadron Engine overwrites Grassy Terrain, and you can't put opponents to sleep in Electric Terrain).
I recommend using Calyrex-I or Zacian-C as a different restricted, Calyrex-I provides another form of speed control if Tailwind is undesirable, and Ice coverage is very helpful for Dragon- and Grass-types that resist Water Spout, making more it spammable. It also forces Koraidon to tera into a Fire-type, making it much more vulnerable to Kyogre even in sun, which is important since Koraidon otherwise would wall Kyogre.
Zacian-C has very nice Steel / Fairy typing that compliments well with Kyogre, with Kyogre resisting Fire-type attacks and weakening them with rain, and Zacian-C resisting Grass-types while also doing well against Miraidon and Koraidon which can (just like Calyrex-I) force them to tera, making them more vulnerable to Kyogre.
Sorry I typed up a storm lmao, but overall, I think the team is solid, but for improvements I would go for:
Also, asking in Pokemon Showdown VGC chatroom or in Smogon VGC Discord would be better if you want advice
https://pokepast.es/f92091f543138e18
Tsareena is a Pokémon that does like both miraidon and kyogre, priority blocking for miraidon in a similar way to what farigiraf does. It’s grass ice coverage tends to work pretty well next to both of them.
I decided to change the Amoonguss to min speed to give me another option against TR other than Taunt Tornadus.
y'know, I've always wanted to use Tsareena, but I think I was just never sure how to EV it in the current regulation