Metagame Tier Shift

Two quick notes i wanted to make after some observations i could make on what pple use on the ladder:

:indeedee: :hitmonlee: + whatever lower tier psychics u want
Psyspam seem very strong, and it feels like it is the most threatening archetype i've faced so far. There seem to be in general a ton of cracked psychics in this tier so you probably have a lot of ways to go about it. I've seen a team with Roaring Moon on psyspam which enjoys the immunity to priority. Indeedee-m itself hits extremely hard with expanding force and is a big threat even on teams that didn't seem to be trying to psyspam.
Not necessarily a psyspam mon but Braviary-Hisui hits incredibly hard and seem to be a cracked wallbreaker in general - 142 spa with tinted lens or sheer force is wild.

:brambleghast:
This mon is nuts, poltergeist hits like a freight train, it has a very good typing and spin is super good utility
 
Did you guys know that Drought and Quick Claw both force your Pokemon to be treated as NUBL if their original tier is below NUBL?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2378749506

1749083309571.png
1749083323956.png

0 SpA Vulpix (80 base SpA) Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands in Sun: 168-198 (32.8 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Feebas (40 base SpA) Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands: 66-78 (12.8 - 15.2%) -- possible 7HKO

As shown in the screenshots and calculations, Vulpix and Feebas are expected to be dealing around 33-39% and 13-15% of Iron Hands health, but in-battle, they actually only do around 29-34% and 11-12% damage, respectively. This is because both Drought and Quick Claw are banned in NU and all tiers below it, making any users of Drought and Quick Claw only get the RU boost of +20.

0 SpA Vulpix (70 base SpA) Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands in Sun: 150-177 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- 5.3% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Feebas (30 base SpA) Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands: 55-66 (10.7 - 12.8%) -- possible 8HKO

There are other items and abilities that are banned in different tiers that would modify what boost a Pokemon would get, but they are either already banned from Tier Shift (Light Clay) or banned in a tier too low to actually matter (ZU banned Unburden, making all Unburden Pokemon get the ZUBL boost, which is still +30).

You can view the full rule at line 2265 at https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/blob/master/data/rulesets.ts
 
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InkyDarkBird said:
Did you guys know that Drought and Quick Claw both force your Pokemon to be treated as NUBL if their original tier is below NUBL?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2378749506

View attachment 745830 View attachment 745831
0 SpA Vulpix (80 base SpA) Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands in Sun: 168-198 (32.8 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Feebas (40 base SpA) Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands: 66-78 (12.8 - 15.2%) -- possible 7HKO

As shown in the screenshots and calculations, Vulpix and Feebas are expected to be dealing around 33-39% and 13-15% of Iron Hands health, but in-battle, they actually only do around 29-34% and 11-12% damage, respectively. This is because both Drought and Quick Claw are banned in NU and all tiers below it, making any users of Drought and Quick Claw only get the RU boost of +20.

0 SpA Vulpix (70 base SpA) Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands in Sun: 150-177 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- 5.3% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Feebas (30 base SpA) Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands: 55-66 (10.7 - 12.8%) -- possible 8HKO

There are other items and abilities that are banned in different tiers that would modify what boost a Pokemon would get, but they are either already banned from Tier Shift (Light Clay) or banned in a tier too low to actually matter (ZU banned Unburden, making all Unburden Pokemon get the ZUBL boost, which is still +30).

You can view the full rule at line 2265 at https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/blob/master/data/rulesets.ts
Click to expand...
This info should be in the OP. Kind of important to know this information when you’re teambuilding or simply fighting another team with Drought or Quick Claw.
 
ShokoMC said:
Silly thing here, take a look.View attachment 745888Glastrier stronger than Calyrex-Ice lol
Click to expand...
252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 258-304 (75.6 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Glastrier (175 Atk) Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 192-226 (56.3 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Just wanted to post this to remind everyone that base power of moves is more important than offensive stats.
 
Let me add to the discussion of tanks that excel at making trades or forcing progress, alongside the likes of Bellibolt and Hoodra. These guys also appreciate extra healing from Thwackey or Wish, but it isn’t required by any means.

:sv/Tinkatuff:
Tinkatuff (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Encore
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave

So I heard you all like Ursaring and Regidrago? This guy is good at both checking them AND enabling them.

In a meta seemingly lacking in both Fairies and Steels, Tankatuff is a surprisingly effective lead and midgame pick in my early playtime with it. It generally softens up the opponent by removing items (even against Sticky Hold, wow!), generating momentum with Encore, spreading para and rocks, all while laughing at Magic Bounce and eating hits for days.

:sv/muk-alola:
Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Poison Fang
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Sneak

I said it in Discord and I’ll say it here: any meta where Muk-A can do work is a tier I’m into.

Muk is here to force progress every time it hits the field against any team lacking Gliscor, either by poisoning the whole opponent’s team or Knocking their items. Muk can basically singlehandedly shut down Psyspam teams, provided you have a means of beating the obligatory Unburden Hitmonlee. It’s also pretty damn good into Drifblim, which is very strong in this meta.

Shadow Sneak is super clutch as Muk often finds itself it situations where the opponent is hanging on by a thread, or by surprise quick poisoning it on the way out.

Edit: Has no one really highlighted Sandaconda? Let’s talk about him too.

:sv/Sandaconda:
Sandaconda @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake / High Horsepower
- Stealth Rock / Rock Slide / Rock Tomb
- Glare
- Rest

You can make it lean Sp Def if you want it to eat hits from the Electrics like Jolteon to better enable Glare, but same same.

Def snake eats burns from Ho-Oh for days, if you can fit Sneaky Peevkes elsewhere it can run Rock Slide to hit Ho-Oh, Glare is amazing, Shed Skin and Rest give it sustain that makes it almost a proper wall. Yeah, it’s a good one.

Edit 2: Adding Incin to this.

This guy rocks on balance as it eats Ho-Oh, PsySpam, Sun. I like Fake Out as it helps with the Trick Room mu, but you could do Wisp or something else.

Really friggin good Mon. Like the other guys it really appreciates Wish support.

:sv/incineroar:
Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
 
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Here's a cool team i made it to top 30 of the ladder with:
Still think there are some changes to be made, but i feel like this team deals with most of the common threats of the metagame.

1749140988684.jpeg


oricorio-sensu.gif


spoopy (Oricorio-Sensu) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Dancer
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 236 HP / 176 Def / 96 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Revelation Dance
- Hurricane / Air Slash (ive lost too many games to hurricane misses)
- Roost


regigigas.gif


GIGIGIGIGI (Regigigas) @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Knock Off
- Substitute
- Protect

eternatus.gif


goobnernatus (Eternatus) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Dynamax Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Recover


conkeldurr.gif


heheheha (Conkeldurr) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Facade
- Defog


1713686425389-png.626403


joeseph (Gholdengo) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder Wave
- Recover


kleavor.gif


no consent (Kleavor) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Axe
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack


Feel free to suggest any changes and/or potentially better team members.
 
DiffusedTurtle said:
oricorio-sensu.gif


spoopy (Oricorio-Sensu) @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Dancer
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 236 HP / 176 Def / 96 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Revelation Dance
- Hurricane / Air Slash (ive lost too many games to hurricane misses)
- Roost
Click to expand...
I do not understand the usage of Oricorio-Sensu. This Pokemon is blocked by every viable specially defensive Pokemon, loses to Bellibolt, and only has a measly base SpA of 118 and a Speed of 113. An unboosted Revelation Dance can't even OHKO Espeon.

252 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Espeon: 228-270 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In addition, Oricorio-Sensu faces stiff competition from other Ghosts such as Gengar, Flutter Mane, Chandelure, Typhlosion-Hisui, and Giratina-O, all of which have more base SpA than it and have much better coverage moves.
 
Leaving this here because I can’t make it work (and it’s murdered my ELO </3):
https://pokepast.es/0b424fef1469b39e
:Typhlosion-Hisui: :pawmot: :bellibolt: :Sneasler: :dragalge::Espeon:
When it hits, it hits and when it doesn’t, you’re getting 6-0’d. I’ve made just about 1000 tweaks to it. If you’re genuinely interested, I can send all of them in PMs and previous versions.

The idea behind this team is pretty simple: pivot around spreading status, ending in a Hex sweep or a Pawmot cleanup. Its (many) issues generally come from the fact that this format’s top mons are very easily able to avoid common status. To the point where things like T-Spikes are either mediocre in effect or instantly soaked up by a Poison-type Tw finds Few Hits with Groudon tusk rhydon Around every corner.

I also think the overreliance on early-game trades with Drag can lead to a struggling mid-game where you must give up 1-2 Pokémon to get back into position.

Overall, this team has a lot going for it, it just doesn’t quite come together in the way I’d like. And man am I tired of losing ELO.
(ps Tune back in For a Tier list on all of viable Ubers Pokémon with some sample teams for the good ones)
 
InkyDarkBird said:
Did you guys know that Drought and Quick Claw both force your Pokemon to be treated as NUBL if their original tier is below NUBL?
Click to expand...
this has been updated to be included in the FAQ. thanks for raising this on forums and in the discord!

VannAccessible said:
I won’t pretend to be an expert at this format by any means, especially given that the ladder just relaunched today, but someone on Discord had brought up the idea of granting OU mons a +5 boost to their stats. Is this something that has been considered in the past?
Click to expand...
this hasn't been considered this generation, and it's unlikely to change for the rest of the generation. it may be a question asked of whoever leads Tier Shift next gen so we will see
 
so here is a team I have made for Tier Shift. I shall provide explanations below the mons
Powerwash (Vaporeon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Wish
- Scald
- Ice Beam
The Wish Passing Vaporeon is a good tool to keep our team alive, and with the help of Scald burns and Haze removing stat changes on the opposing side, it works as a way to counter the many powerful Water type attackers, and it can also threaten the flying types with a mighty Ice Beam from its 135 Special Attack, alongside its fantastic bulk.

Ice Age (Glastrier) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Chilling Neigh
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- High Horsepower
- Trailblaze
Glastrier is one of our sweepers, SDing once, or maybe twice, and then Trailblazing, Icicle Crashing, and High Horsepowering through the opponent's defenses. It carries Tera Ground for STAB HH and for no longer being weak to Fire, Steel, Fighting, and for a nice Rock resistance. Also, while base 60 speed is not great, base 175 Attack and good bulk is worth it.

Boarserker (Emboar) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Reckless
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
- Trailblaze
Emboar is made to do lots of damage and to stick around. Reckless Flare Blitz can obliterate Fire weak foes and can seriously chunk neutral or even resisted switch ins. It has BU and Drain Punch for sustainability, and Trailblaze for Speed Boosting.

Yggdrasil (Torterra) (F) @ White Herb
Ability: Shell Armor
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Headlong Rush
- Rock Slide
- Trailblaze/Wood Hammer
Torterra is made to Chunk the enemy team with devastating +2 Headlong Rushes and Wood Hammers if you decide to choose Wood Hammer. Rock Slide is there for coverage.

Sabriel (Bronzong) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Light Screen
- Reflect
Screens and Rock are quite important for offense teams. Iron Head for flinches and Rocky Helmet for nice chip damage against contact moves.

Shock And Awe (Bellibolt) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 176 HP / 80 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parabolic Charge
- Volt Switch
- Acid Spray
- Muddy Water
Bellibolt can stay around for a while and even help Vaporeon pick up a kill it would have normally missed with Acid Spray. Volt Switch is there to help it change to its teammates quickly.
 
I've been tooling around with Forretress Vaporeon Balance, game plan being to stack hazards and then break. It seems really hard to pilot because of how many offensive Pokes can immediately set up and threaten a sweep. Maybe some moveset/member adjustments are in order?

Forretress @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head

Crawdaunt @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Dragon Dance

Vaporeon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Protect
- Roar

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Lunar Dance
- Thunder Wave

Kilowattrel @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Volt Switch

Goodra-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Iron Head
- Dragon Tail
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
 
I don't exactly understand why Drought is allowed while Drizzle isn't. Sun arguably has the same breakers as Rain, notably Slither Wing, Charizard, Venusaur, Brute Bonnet, and Typhlosion-Hisui. While Groudon does not benefit from Sun as much as Kyogre benefits from Rain, Ground STAB and Rock coverage is an extremely powerful anti-lead to eliminate Rock types and Ho-Oh. There are extremely few walls to Slither Wing, Charizard, and Typhlosion-Hisui under the Sun, and since Rain is basically banned, the only other weather that can compete with Sun is Sand, which does not appreciate Groudon resisting Rock moves. The only main flaw of Sun is that it is weak to Rock, Ice, and hazards.

Moving on, should Ho-Oh be banned? None of the proper Ubers checks exist for it here (Swords Dance Koraidon, Wild Charge Zacian-C, Ekiller, Stone Edge Groundceus, Kyogre) and I've seen some people turn to use Rotom-Heat (despite its frailty compared to other walls) just to check Ho-Oh. Ho-Oh heavily nullifies a large majority of special attackers that cannot hit it supereffectively or don't have Psyshock, namely Salazzle, Deoxys-Attack without Rock Slide (no one runs Psycho Boost + Psyshock), Frosmoth, Alolan Ninetales, Chandelure, etc. Unlike other specially defensive walls, Ho-Oh does not care about being burned and can threaten opposing burns using Sacred Fire. Furthermore, people are so scared of Ho-Oh that they are turning to using random Rock coverage, such as Crabominable, Beartic, Great Tusk, Tauros-Paldea-Blaze, and Entei. Aside from Jolteon, Volcanion, Cr****ant, and Espeon, is there any viable special attacker that really threatens Ho-Oh?
 
InkyDarkBird said:
I don't exactly understand why Drought is allowed while Drizzle isn't. Sun arguably has the same breakers as Rain, notably Slither Wing, Charizard, Venusaur, Brute Bonnet, and Typhlosion-Hisui. While Groudon does not benefit from Sun as much as Kyogre benefits from Rain, Ground STAB and Rock coverage is an extremely powerful anti-lead to eliminate Rock types and Ho-Oh. There are extremely few walls to Slither Wing, Charizard, and Typhlosion-Hisui under the Sun, and since Rain is basically banned, the only other weather that can compete with Sun is Sand, which does not appreciate Groudon resisting Rock moves. The only main flaw of Sun is that it is weak to Rock, Ice, and hazards.

Moving on, should Ho-Oh be banned? None of the proper Ubers checks exist for it here (Swords Dance Koraidon, Wild Charge Zacian-C, Ekiller, Stone Edge Groundceus, Kyogre) and I've seen some people turn to use Rotom-Heat (despite its frailty compared to other walls) just to check Ho-Oh. Ho-Oh heavily nullifies a large majority of special attackers that cannot hit it supereffectively or don't have Psyshock, namely Salazzle, Deoxys-Attack without Rock Slide (no one runs Psycho Boost + Psyshock), Frosmoth, Alolan Ninetales, Chandelure, etc. Unlike other specially defensive walls, Ho-Oh does not care about being burned and can threaten opposing burns using Sacred Fire. Furthermore, people are so scared of Ho-Oh that they are turning to using random Rock coverage, such as Crabominable, Beartic, Great Tusk, Tauros-Paldea-Blaze, and Entei. Aside from Jolteon, Volcanion, Cr****ant, and Espeon, is there any viable special attacker that really threatens Ho-Oh?
Click to expand...
Drought isnt as dangerous because the chloro mons outside of scorvillain don't get a boosted stab, in general without heat rock sun is weaker than in standard tiers, yes stuff is difficult to wall under sun, but thats how weather works on every tier, Charizard can kill anything but is difficult to use as is vulnerable to a lot of things (is a x4 weak to rocks mon that loses HP each turn too with average bulk) and you have to manage the few sun turns well.

Ho-oh is just a glue mon and you are overestimating it, you listed Salazzle as something invalidated by it when Salazzle is something Ho-oh can't check because of Toxic and Knock Off, you beat Ho-oh like you beat most walls, you don't throw hits it can sponge until it works, you take advantage of it with stuff that can freely switch into it like Sandaconda, Rotom-H, Rotom-W, or use status effects or trick it or force it to switch into a knock off so it cant check stuff anymore, also for a regen wall is quite bad into long games as sacred fire runs out of PP too quickly. Ho-oh is good for the tier because when you have too many viable mons you need at least a few defensive mons that can blank check stuff so is not impossible to make teams that die to random shit too easily.
 
Here's a team I used to get to top 15 on the ladder. I really like using this team, but it's still a work in progress. I'll put explanations under each mon.
Screenshot_20250608-230654.Firefox~2.png


Kleavor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Axe
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack
Kleavor is a fantastic stealth rock setter and an very threatening scarfer. Although it is very frail and weak to rocks, it makes up for it with its great kill potential and strong coverage.

Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Focus Energy
- Draco Meteor
- Flip Turn
- Scald / Hydro Pump
This may seem like a joke set but I assure you that this thing is a threat. It has a great defensive typing and decent special bulk for dealing with overheat and eruption spammers, and it works very well into sun teams. Focus energy is effectively a stronger nasty plot, allowing Kingdra to sweep teams that aren't ready for it.

Vikavolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Sticky Web
- Volt Switch
Sticky web and volt switch gives Vikavolt great utility, but it really shines with its ability to live a hit and deal with some of the scarier psychic types in the tier with bug buzz. Also, thunder just does a lot of damage.

Ninetales-Alola @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Snow Warning
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Draining Kiss / Moonblast
- Blizzard
- Encore
Even though it doesn't have light clay, aurora veil is still very useful as long as you play precisely. Ninetales now has much better bulk, which combined with aurora veil lets it live hits from some strong threats that this team has a hard time dealing with. Aurora veil and encore are also great for securing switch-ins and protecting your best matchups.

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Defog
This is just a simple guts set, right now it's also the team's only option for hazard removal and item removal. Knock off also helps punish hasty psychic or ghost switch-ins.

Eternatus @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Recover
Eternatus has great bulk and typing for many common pokemon in the tier. Even with no special attack investment it still is a reliable source of damage, and it can switch in to most physical attackers. Pressure is also very useful for dealing with bulky recover sets that the team isn't very well equipped against.

I'm still workshopping this team, so I'm open to suggestions for improvements.
 
sychillz said:
Leaving this here because I can’t make it work (and it’s murdered my ELO </3):
https://pokepast.es/0b424fef1469b39e
:Typhlosion-Hisui: :pawmot: :bellibolt: :Sneasler: :dragalge::Espeon:
When it hits, it hits and when it doesn’t, you’re getting 6-0’d. I’ve made just about 1000 tweaks to it. If you’re genuinely interested, I can send all of them in PMs and previous versions.

The idea behind this team is pretty simple: pivot around spreading status, ending in a Hex sweep or a Pawmot cleanup. Its (many) issues generally come from the fact that this format’s top mons are very easily able to avoid common status. To the point where things like T-Spikes are either mediocre in effect or instantly soaked up by a Poison-type Tw finds Few Hits with Groudon tusk rhydon Around every corner.

I also think the overreliance on early-game trades with Drag can lead to a struggling mid-game where you must give up 1-2 Pokémon to get back into position.

Overall, this team has a lot going for it, it just doesn’t quite come together in the way I’d like. And man am I tired of losing ELO.
(ps Tune back in For a Tier list on all of viable Ubers Pokémon with some sample teams for the good ones)
Click to expand...

https://pokepast.es/84945b25539019fc

[Betta TEEm song:]

DU DU DUUU DU DUUU

ANGEL MAK TEEM BETTAAA

DU DU DUUU DU DUUU

HEAR U GO! HEAR U GO! HEAR U GO GO GO!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:b u welcum
 
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I feel that this tier struggles heavily with hazards. Corviknight is basically gone, and since most hazard setters are Rock or have Rock coverage, Flying Defoggers such as Mandibuzz and Altaria (no idea how good this is) are only able to safely come in on other Pokemon, which then they either get Knocked Off or get set up on while Defogging. The presence of these Rock Pokemon is amplified by everyone’s fear/hatred of Ho-Oh, meaning that Flying Defoggers face numerous hostile threats. The only other real options are Weezing(-Galar) and Giratina(-O) which have poor recovery (although Wisp can be extremely annoying). Weezing(-Galar) split between using Neutralizing Gas to harass Ho-Oh and Levitate to avoid being hit by stray Earthquakes, and Giratina is forced to either use a defensive set and be unable to threaten Ho-Oh or an offensive set and get 2HKOed by Rock Pokemon.

What about Rapid Spinners? Well, Great Tusk, Iron Treads, and Quaquaval suffer massively from not receiving any boosts (and Treads just loses to Ho-Oh), leaving only frailer options such as Tentacruel, Toedscruel, Brambleghast, and Avalugg (only good on stall which isn’t viable), all of which have poor defensive stats and don’t resist powerful Rock moves besides Toedscruel.

Knock Off usage is everywhere (again, partially because of Ho-Oh) from Muk-Alola to Cyclizar, crippling Magic Guard Pokemon such as Clefairy and preventing Flying Defoggers from switching in again.

The only real counter I see to hazard stack are setup sweepers, such as Shell Smashers.
 
spray226 said:
View attachment 747014
Eelektross is a very good bulk sweeper with "no weakness" yall should try it
Click to expand...
With a lot of mons exceeding 130 on attacking stats, i dont think that bulk might be impressive.

Also, why people didn't raised a concern about Chansey and Blissey this generation? Like, hello, Chansey is on NU now(+20 on both defenses, enhanced further by Eviolite) and Blissey is on RU. Chansey is even more threatening because i looked the BL and there is no Eviolite in there, which allows her to exceed the boost.
I know chansey lost acess to toxic, but cant it just use a partner to spread it, or let toxic spikes layers if that's the case? There is plenty of mons available such as Glimmora.
 
People aren’t concerned about Chansey and Blissey when they are almost exclusive to hard stall and Ho-Oh is public enemy #1. Ho-Oh and other Pokemon are much more active than Blissey or Chansey and can actually threaten switch-ins or pivot out. Physical attackers are also much more common than special attackers (I think), so Chansey and Blissey naturally suffer.
 
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