VGC 2025 Regulation I Metagame Discussion

y'know, I've always wanted to use Tsareena, but I think I was just never sure how to EV it in the current regulation
boom this is where I come in
tsareena sets for u!!!

:tsareena::wide lens:
Tsareena @ Wide Lens
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 124 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 20 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Triple Axel
- Taunt / Helping Hand
- Protect / Helping Hand / U-turn

The queen is back and ready for more! With this spread, Tera Ice Triple Axel tears through even the bulkiest of Miraidon. You also outspeed 12 Speed EV Terapagos, letting you get off a valuable Taunt before they CM or Sub. The HP and SpD give you the best shot at surviving Origin Pulse from Kyogre after Tera and the rest of the EVs go into defense.

:tsareena::assault vest:
Tsareena @ Assault Vest
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 140 HP / 236 Atk / 100 Def / 4 SpD / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Triple Axel
- High Jump Kick / Knock Off

This build is 100% worse than the first one but it is certainly funnier. You live Tera Stellar Close Combat from Urshifu-R, Heat Wave from Chi-Yu, still OHKO bulky Miraidon, avoid a 2HKO from Sash CSR and probably more lol.

I've always loved using Tsareena but right now it feels very weak as the power level is astronomically high right now. It can put in work, highly suggest running it alongside Kyogre and something that beats Zamazenta-C / heavily chunks it such as Miraidon and Iron Hands. Idk though, haven't really used my prime girlie out yet :(
 
Yay, been so hyped for this format for months and now it's finally here. Some stuff I wanna talk about...

Potential Cores

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This was one of the most hyped cores so far, and while it is a strong one I don't think it's as OP as we originally thought. The user 2 posts above this summarized why, I don't really have anything else to add, and it's still a strong core but not as broken as we first thought.

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This one I feel lives up to the hype more, as you get a lot of Speed, bulk and power, they cover each other's weaknesses beautifully and there aren't many Pokemon that reliably check them both. ShadowRex in and of itself is in a worse place this meta though, since Wide Guard is much easier to fit on your team. But if there's anything ghost horse has taught us, it's that even if you're well prepared for it on paper, it can still destroy you easily.

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A more offensive, aggressive version of the above core. Gives you the option of playing Sun.

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A more balanced take on the above core, I've personally laddered with this and I can vouch for its effectiveness. With Koraidon bringing the Speed and power and Lunala on support. Agree with the above poster, Lunala loves double restricted as its jack-of-all-trades style really fits in well here.

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Hot take, this core is better than Icerex+Miraidon. Groudon's typing lets Miraidon run Tera Electric Discharge for devastating spread damage, and Rillaboom doesn't want to switch in and risk eating a 120 BP super effective sun boosted Heat Crash. Groudon also loves being paired with Miraidon's usual entourage: Whimsicott gives it Tailwind, Light Screen and resets Sun, Ogerpon-H hits like an absolute truck in the sun, Groudon can also abuse Farigaraf's Trick Room (it can even set Gravity to fix Precipice Blade's accuracy and let it hit airborne targets). Swords Dance Groudon also likes Iron Hands's Fake Out (don't run Bulk Up Groudon, it sucks).

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The Swordfish core might be slightly neutered going into SV, but it's not to be underestimated. Personally I think you're better off going for Hydro Pump over Origin Pulse due to the popularity of Wide Guard Zamazenta, but the two cover each other's checks really well - Zacian destroys non Tera Koraidon, Raging Bolt, Rillaboom and Ogerpon-W, while Kyogre destroys the Fire types it hates. I think Bulky CM Kyogre isn't very good now, and Scarf has fallen off this gen (although it wasn't great last gen either tbf), but 3 attacks and Assault Vest are still strong.

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I don't like this core at all. I don't think Terapagos is very good in this meta (I loved using it back in reg G) because to get the best from it you have to dedicate your tera slot and remove all weather and terrains. So you have to pair it with stuff that doesn't need weather, terrain or tera, and nearly all other restricted Pokemon like to have at least 2 of those. Wide Guard also stops both of them using their best moves. Bulky CM Pagos is much worse in this format with the faster pacing.

Some cool niche mons

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While it has worse stats than Grimmsnarl, Tornadus and Whimsicott, Sableye makes up for this by being naturally immune to Fake Out, letting you run Covert Cloak elsewhere, and having moves those 3 wish they had, like Gravity, Will-o-Wisp and Quash. Groudon and Kyogre both love having the goblin around, since not only can it set Gravity to remedy the accuracy of their STABs, it can also stop Wide Guards with Taunt, reset their weathers, and provide Speed control.

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Another Prankster support mon, Thundurus excels in debuffing. Prankster Thunder Wave is always nice, while it has Taunt to stop support and Eerie Impulse to weaken special attackers. Pairs nicely with Koraidon, since it can reset sun, check Water types, and provide Speed control

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It is a flea market Zamazenta, but if you have both your restricted slots already filled it's a solid choice. Bastiodon gives you a Wide Guard user, an Icerex check (and by that I mean it stops it spamming Glacial Lance which is frankly half the battle), and with Iron Defense it can even be a nice lategame wincon in its own right.

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Araquanid has a serious who's who of Pokemon it checks. Koraidon, Icerex, Zamazenta, ShadowRex, Terapagos, Rapid Strike Urshifu...and despite that low Attack stat, Water Bubble still lets it hit hard with its Water STABs.

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Now, let's say you want a bulky redirector, but Amoonguss just doesn't fit on your team because you're also running Miraidon. Well, while it can't put stuff to sleep like that irritating mushroom (and again you're running Miraidon), Sinistcha can set Trick Room, heal its teammates with both its ability and Life Dew, and even set up Trick Room. Dont you cancel out trick by using it twice
 
boom this is where I come in
tsareena sets for u!!!

:tsareena::wide lens:
Tsareena @ Wide Lens
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 124 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 20 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Triple Axel
- Taunt / Helping Hand
- Protect / Helping Hand / U-turn

The queen is back and ready for more! With this spread, Tera Ice Triple Axel tears through even the bulkiest of Miraidon. You also outspeed 12 Speed EV Terapagos, letting you get off a valuable Taunt before they CM or Sub. The HP and SpD give you the best shot at surviving Origin Pulse from Kyogre after Tera and the rest of the EVs go into defense.

:tsareena::assault vest:
Tsareena @ Assault Vest
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 140 HP / 236 Atk / 100 Def / 4 SpD / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Triple Axel
- High Jump Kick / Knock Off

This build is 100% worse than the first one but it is certainly funnier. You live Tera Stellar Close Combat from Urshifu-R, Heat Wave from Chi-Yu, still OHKO bulky Miraidon, avoid a 2HKO from Sash CSR and probably more lol.

I've always loved using Tsareena but right now it feels very weak as the power level is astronomically high right now. It can put in work, highly suggest running it alongside Kyogre and something that beats Zamazenta-C / heavily chunks it such as Miraidon and Iron Hands. Idk though, haven't really used my prime girlie out yet :(
Ill steal this for myself thank you
 
It's veery late so I don't have time for any hyper-specific calcs, but this is my rough draft for the team. I haven't had any practice matches with it so I can't know for sure if I'll enjoy it, but I like the looks of it so far. Thank you for your help, I'll try it out and do more tinkering tomorrow.



https://pokepast.es/f92091f543138e18
You could replace among us with grim snarl or just someone else like sinistcha then you could also replace CIR with miraidon cause its ability boost electro shot and has great switch ability with kyoger cause it resits grass, electric and is weak to ice and ground plus is just OP
 
You could replace among us with grim snarl or just someone else like sinistcha then you could also replace CIR with miraidon cause its ability boost electro shot and has great switch ability with kyoger cause it resits grass, electric and is weak to ice and ground plus is just OP
I don't have CIR, but I'm assuming you mean Zacian lol.
 
I think this is going to be all of Reg I, with every event having a different restricted core shining. A lot of threats like CSR Zamazenta, Miraidon Lunala, Koraidon Lunala, Miraidon CIR, CSR Terapagos, Kyogre CIR, etc makes it so there's always one team perfect into the meta. CSR Zamaznta will take a a fall in the next events now that its at the top of everyone's radar, and it'll have another opportunity to shine when people loosen their counterplay.
 
What do we think about the severe uptick in Calyrex-S Zamazenta-C usage? It had an insane 25% usage rate in day 2 of Bologna and the Chien-Pao versions seem really strong. It could just be EU and balance but I'm interested in what others think.
As much as it looks like an uptick, to me it was just the Italian players loving their balance a little bit too much. For all the consistency we associate with balance, playing in those mirror matches must have been brutal. Everyone could see all the plays that could potentially happen, it was just a matter of do you pick the moves that beat the selection of moves your opponent is going for, or does your opponent pick the moves that beat the selection of moves that you went for. The tendency for speed ties can't have helped, as everyone is incentivised to go max speed Calyrex-S and max speed Zamazenta-C so your not explicitly worse off in the mirror.
 
As much as it looks like an uptick, to me it was just the Italian players loving their balance a little bit too much. For all the consistency we associate with balance, playing in those mirror matches must have been brutal. Everyone could see all the plays that could potentially happen, it was just a matter of do you pick the moves that beat the selection of moves your opponent is going for, or does your opponent pick the moves that beat the selection of moves that you went for. The tendency for speed ties can't have helped, as everyone is incentivised to go max speed Calyrex-S and max speed Zamazenta-C so your not explicitly worse off in the mirror.
Agreed. Balance is like spaghetti for italians.
Also where's our VR!!
 
Not sure if this is the right forum for this or not, but I'm looking for some help figuring out the last spot on my team. I've been using this team: https://pokepast.es/228d9c7fb0cd9875 and have gone 8-3 so far in battle stadium. It's been really fun to use, but I feel like having Gholdengo and Flutter Mane is somewhat redundant.

I'm leaning towards replacing Gholdengo, but I've had a few matches where I've brought it and it came in really clutch, so I'm not sure. The sash is nice to guarantee 2 hits on Flutter, but with the EV spread I have on Gholdengo, it's just so bulky that it usually lives multiple hits anyways. I want to take as much advantage of the sun from Koraidon as possible though, so I'd hate to lose all my protosynthesis mons (I already replaced Raging Bolt with Lunala after the switch to the new reg).

I've been thinking about Chi-Yu maybe, but I'm still pretty new to VGC, mostly been a Showdown singles player, and it seems like it could add another layer of depth to positioning that could be hard to learn.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, but if not, I'd really appreciate the help <3
 
Not sure if this is the right forum for this or not, but I'm looking for some help figuring out the last spot on my team. I've been using this team: https://pokepast.es/228d9c7fb0cd9875 and have gone 8-3 so far in battle stadium. It's been really fun to use, but I feel like having Gholdengo and Flutter Mane is somewhat redundant.

I'm leaning towards replacing Gholdengo, but I've had a few matches where I've brought it and it came in really clutch, so I'm not sure. The sash is nice to guarantee 2 hits on Flutter, but with the EV spread I have on Gholdengo, it's just so bulky that it usually lives multiple hits anyways. I want to take as much advantage of the sun from Koraidon as possible though, so I'd hate to lose all my protosynthesis mons (I already replaced Raging Bolt with Lunala after the switch to the new reg).

I've been thinking about Chi-Yu maybe, but I'm still pretty new to VGC, mostly been a Showdown singles player, and it seems like it could add another layer of depth to positioning that could be hard to learn.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, but if not, I'd really appreciate the help <3
Hello, I think it would be better if you went to the RMT forum or the Smogon VGC Discord if you want serious advice, but I can give you a few pointers.

The team is not bad, but I would prefer Chi-Yu or Ursaluna over Gholdengo, as Ghold doesnt seem to accomplish or do much on this team. There's also some few minor changes, like changing Flutter Mane's tera to Normal or Fairy and replacing Energy Ball for Protect, and using Flame Charge instead of Dragon Claw on Koraidon. If you want sets for Chi-Yu and Ursaluna: https://pokepast.es/14ab1283a3a9b825
 
Actually, which restricted duos are the most "Balance" oriented?

Is it just the CSR Zama and Terapagos stuff?
I would say that CSR Zama is the MOST balance oriented, korai lunala is also pretty balance. CSR Terapagos is more setup spam I'd say, less flexible and more how can I brute force this game with pagos.
 
Hello, I think it would be better if you went to the RMT forum or the Smogon VGC Discord if you want serious advice, but I can give you a few pointers.

The team is not bad, but I would prefer Chi-Yu or Ursaluna over Gholdengo, as Ghold doesnt seem to accomplish or do much on this team. There's also some few minor changes, like changing Flutter Mane's tera to Normal or Fairy and replacing Energy Ball for Protect, and using Flame Charge instead of Dragon Claw on Koraidon. If you want sets for Chi-Yu and Ursaluna: https://pokepast.es/14ab1283a3a9b825
Thank you so much!! I'll check out the RMT forum, I appreciate it :)
 
I would say that CSR Zama is the MOST balance oriented, korai lunala is also pretty balance. CSR Terapagos is more setup spam I'd say, less flexible and more how can I brute force this game with pagos.
I will say that there is more nuance to it if you go the route of "csr-focused gameplan game 1 -> game 2, assume they prepared for csr again and are underprepared for pagos", where it's mainly the csr-focused game that's balance like
 
The tendency for speed ties can't have helped, as everyone is incentivised to go max speed Calyrex-S and max speed Zamazenta-C so your not explicitly worse off in the mirror.

just wanted to make a quick correction to this statement because it's actually a really cool detail in my opinion

something I actually realized after playing CSR Zama at Bologna SPE was that not only were the Zamazenta not going max speed, I'm pretty sure most of them (at the top tables at least) had either no speed at all or very little investment. To put it into perspective, my own Zama was parked slightly above the 156 speed benchmark and I'm pretty sure I was faster than every Zama I faced aside from an Imprison variant I played in Day 1 on a Kyogre team

the reason for this is that higher bulk investment allows Zama to survive the +0 Astral/Psychic + +1 Body Press double up and also eat a +2 LO CSR hit from full HP, both of which have pretty big implications in the mirror. I'm pretty sure there's still situations where being fast on Zamazenta can be perky, but overall I'd say that's not the way people are EVing that guy right now

CSR on the other hand I'm p sure I don't have to say anything about that guy's Speed investment LMAO

I would say that CSR Zama is the MOST balance oriented, korai lunala is also pretty balance. CSR Terapagos is more setup spam I'd say, less flexible and more how can I brute force this game with pagos.

the CM Nala variant of Miraidon Lunala is also a cool balance comp that showed up big at the last event. Miraidon Terapagos is also a thing for the time being, though I have some doubts regarding that team concept's longevity
 
what restricted partners in regulation I work best with Zamazenta. the only one I've heard of is CSR, but I really don't like CSR, does anyone know of any other restricted Pokémon that work well with Zamazenta?
 
what restricted partners in regulation I work best with Zamazenta. the only one I've heard of is CSR, but I really don't like CSR, does anyone know of any other restricted Pokémon that work well with Zamazenta?
hey there, I moved your thread to the metagame discussion thread, please be sure to read the forum rules before making new threads

as for your question, Zamazenta is mostly a CSR partner but has seen other use next to Miraidon and Kyogre. You can check out various tournament teams on top cut explorer and use Zamazenta as a filter to see what people are pairing it with and how successful their tournament runs are
 
:pmd/zacian-crowned: I feel like Zacian has a really nice niche rn because it can ohko Mirai in and out of tera and it has absurd coverage and is pretty fast in this slightly slower than usually metagame. Also, it can ohko grimm and whims which is very useful. I could go on and on why Zacian is good but it would take forever so I'ma stop here. Tell me if u agree or disagree. https://pokepast.es/9b33f64538040e59 :pmd/zacian-crowned:
 
:pmd/zacian-crowned: I feel like Zacian has a really nice niche rn because it can ohko Mirai in and out of tera and it has absurd coverage and is pretty fast in this slightly slower than usually metagame. Also, it can ohko grimm and whims which is very useful. I could go on and on why Zacian is good but it would take forever so I'ma stop here. Tell me if u agree or disagree. https://pokepast.es/9b33f64538040e59 :pmd/zacian-crowned:
it appears you like zacian. I too like zacian, i have been wanting to try it out in this new reg but i have not gotten round to it. I have always wondered what tera is best on it, when i ran zacian in reg G I always had tera Stellar, cause I never saw the point in giving up such a good defensive type. Tera Ground was used alot but I never felt it was as good as it was only an offensive tera apart from in the Miraidon matchup. Tera fairy I understand for similar reasons to tera stellar, but how are you finding tera water??
 
it appears you like zacian. I too like zacian, i have been wanting to try it out in this new reg but i have not gotten round to it. I have always wondered what tera is best on it, when i ran zacian in reg G I always had tera Stellar, cause I never saw the point in giving up such a good defensive type. Tera Ground was used alot but I never felt it was as good as it was only an offensive tera apart from in the Miraidon matchup. Tera fairy I understand for similar reasons to tera stellar, but how are you finding tera water??
:D
 
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