Metagame USUM Pure Hackmons

Held Item Viability Rankings

I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored I'm bored im bored

S Rank
S

:shed-shell: Shed Shell
:safety-goggles: Safety Goggles

S-
:choice-scarf: Choice Scarf
:focus-sash: Focus Sash

A Rank
A+

:eviolite: Eviolite
:lum-berry: Lum Berry
:life-orb: Life Orb
:choice-band: Choice Band

A
:darkinium-z: Darkinium Z
:terrain-extender: Terrain Extender
:leppa-berry: Leppa Berry
:fist-plate: Fist Plate

A-
:pixie-plate: Pixie Plate
:choice-specs: Choice Specs
:Lunalium-Z: Lunalium Z
:silk-scarf: Silk Scarf

B Rank
B+

:insect-plate: Insect Plate
:flame-plate: Flame Plate
:spooky-plate: Spooky Plate
:fairy-memory: Fairy Memory
:mind-plate: Mind Plate
:Solganium-Z: Solganium Z
:air-balloon: Air Balloon
:bug-memory: Bug Memory
:icicle-plate: Icicle-Plate
:electric-memory: Electric Memory
:grass-memory: Grass Memory

B
:assault-vest: Assault Vest
:kasib-berry: Kasib Berry
:lagging-tail: Lagging Tail
:Ultranecrozium-Z: Ultranecrozium Z
:zap-plate: Zap Plate
:meadow-plate: Meadow Plate
:mental-herb: Mental Herb
:Babiri-Berry: Babiri Berry
:draco-plate: Draco Plate
:iron-plate: Iron Plate
 
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PERSONAL MOVE TEIR LIST I GUESS
If you know of a move I forgot lmk
Really cool because when making these kinds of teir lists you wanna think of them in a vacuum but this mode makes it so everything is already in said vacuum (did that make sense? Ok good). I’m just gonna list common moves so I’m not teiring scratch just moves that have seen some play. (Totally didn’t just copy Yourself but used moves). IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER.
S+
Defog
Sunsteel Strike
Photon Geyser
Stealth Rocks
Moongeist beam
Shore Up/ any 50% recovery move
Haze

S-
Shell Smash
Fissure/Sheer Cold
Searing Sunraze Smash
Taunt
Parting Shot
U-turn
Whirlwind
Extreme Speed
Sticky Web
Magic Coat
Special Thief

A+
Sing/ inaccurate sleep moves besides sleep powder
Spore
Let’s Snuggle Forever
V-Create
First Impression
Close Combat
Ice Shard
Fake Out
Light That Burns The Sky
Spikes
Bug Buzz
Strength Sap
Multi Attack
Reflect
Core Enforcer

A-
Beat Up
Extreme Evoboost
Thousand Arrows
Menacing Moonraze Malstorm
Pursuit
Searing Shot
Moonblast
Freeze-Dry
Judgement (not doing all the types idc)
Plasma Fists
Bonemerang
Megahorn

A
Baton Pass
Secret Sword
Sacred Sword
Water Shurkin
Clanging Scales
Nuzzle
Heal Bell/Aromatherapy
Trick
Sludge Wave
Oceanic Oporetta
Will-O-Wisp
Shadow Sneak
Light of Ruin
Mind Blown
Encore
Toxic Spikes

B+
Clamorous Soulblaze
Destiny Bond
Sacred Fire
Anchor Shot
Thousand Waves
Icicle Spear
Glare
Scald
Zap-Cannon (on ng obviously)
Final Gambit
Ice Beam
Oblivion Wing
Draining Kiss
Substitute
Shift Gear
Kings Sheild
Chatter
Mac Punch
Dark Pulse

B
Aura Sphere
Tail Glow
Heal Pulse (you may or may not know why)
Toxic
Leech Life
Darkest Lariat
Revelation Dance


B-
Attack Order
Knock Off
Sucker Punch
Steam Euruption
10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt
Acupressure
Focus Energy
Diamond Storm
Aqua Jet
BoomBurst

C
Rapid spin
Flash Cannon
Agility
Swords Dance
Cotton Down
Endevor

Acceleock Teir don’t use this fuck ass move or ZeldaFan1 will find your address and send 4 tons of nuclear weapons to your exact location.
Acceleock

That has been my Gen 7 Pure Hackmons move Teir List thank you for reading.
 
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Teleport
does he know

Anyway so this isn't a one-liner here's a team I've been enjoying
:lunala::arceus::zeraora::mewtwo-mega-x::slowbro-mega::slaking: click sprites for the link

:lunala: rightclicker had an idea in PHcord where you use plates to lure while improofing, so I used Fist Plate Innards Lunala with Arceus as the improof to lure Arceus. Lunala also has a pretty good MU vs Arceus in general. If you're wondering why I crossed out everything, ask Ransei.

:arceus: come on there are 3247473928583 teams with this do i need to explain

:zeraora: No Guard TSpikes Gengar has been popular recently, but Gengar is ugly and dies to every Scarf PBond user ever, so I used Zeraora instead. It has a slightly stronger Zap Cannon, a much better speed tier and can live most hits from PBond users (unless they're running an OHKO move). Unfortunately it isn't immune to FakeSpeed but who cares.

:mewtwo-mega-x: Pretty standard MMX set... I think? I'm still used to the dual STAB variant instead of weird coverage like Sunsteel + PFist + Fire move + Ice move. Anyway, this thing's one job is to nuke things.

:slowbro-mega: I wanted an MMX improof, and I went with Slowbro over Innards Blob so my team had a mon that can actually tank hits. I chose Safety Goggles over Shed Shell because this team is offensive and I don't want to be weak to Spore.

:slaking: You know what they say: When you don't know what to put as your last mon, use the mascot of your PHPL team.
 
does he know

Anyway so this isn't a one-liner here's a team I've been enjoying
:lunala::arceus::zeraora::mewtwo-mega-x::slowbro-mega::slaking: click sprites for the link

:lunala: rightclicker had an idea in PHcord where you use plates to lure while improofing, so I used Fist Plate Innards Lunala with Arceus as the improof to lure Arceus. Lunala also has a pretty good MU vs Arceus in general. If you're wondering why I crossed out everything, ask Ransei.

:arceus: come on there are 3247473928583 teams with this do i need to explain

:zeraora: No Guard TSpikes Gengar has been popular recently, but Gengar is ugly and dies to every Scarf PBond user ever, so I used Zeraora instead. It has a slightly stronger Zap Cannon, a much better speed tier and can live most hits from PBond users (unless they're running an OHKO move). Unfortunately it isn't immune to FakeSpeed but who cares.

:mewtwo-mega-x: Pretty standard MMX set... I think? I'm still used to the dual STAB variant instead of weird coverage like Sunsteel + PFist + Fire move + Ice move. Anyway, this thing's one job is to nuke things.

:slowbro-mega: I wanted an MMX improof, and I went with Slowbro over Innards Blob so my team had a mon that can actually tank hits. I chose Safety Goggles over Shed Shell because this team is offensive and I don't want to be weak to Spore.

:slaking: You know what they say: When you don't know what to put as your last mon, use the mascot of your PHPL team.
the use of gengar is to absorb t spikes and uturn resist do matter a bit. And to make this not a one liner Ill talk about evoboost late game sweeper arceus. So as we all know arceus is fully improved and will be hard to shut down. And arceus would probably appreciate the defensive stats boost from evoboost as 252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Mach Punch vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 402-474 (90.5 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO. The only problem with evoboost is that you have only one chance, which means you will want to know your opponents sets so it would be more fitting in balanced or bulky offense teams with impostor I assume. And when you dont know what to add in your team add an impostor.
 
Teleport
Haha this guy is stupid teleport dose not exist in gen 7 silly goose…

Just so my post doesn’t get taken down for responding to my own comment I will talk about why the bee is ok. ITS OK, NOT AMAZING JUST OK.

:Beedrill-mega:this is the set I’m talking about.

Guy smash used this set idk when but some time and I thought it was really cool cuz it has a 252+ Atk Beedrill-Mega Pursuit (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0- Def 0 IVs Chansey: 963-1134 (136.7 - 161%) -- guaranteed OHKO (against innards Chansey) and against Blissey it almost ohkos without the extra 40 BP from switch which you can usually just go for next turn to get the kill if no whirlwind. Absorbs t-spikes like a champ, can revenge kill/sweep easy if sash is in tact with spec thief, and teams that hate rocks just love this Mon to get rid of them.
 
THE OFFICIAL ABILITY VIABILITY RANKINGS
(it’s official because it just is. Ok?)
Well, people have made a move viability rankings and an item viability rankings so it’s time to have ability viability rankings (the lower down an ability is placed in a tier the worse I believe it to be) also I’m 99.99999999999% confident that someone else has already done this but who the hell cares?!?! Not me that’s for sure.

S
innards out (most would probably say wg is number 1)
Wonder guard

S-
huge power/ pure power
Imposter
Magic guard

A+
No guard
Prankster
Magic bounce

A
Mold breaker/ turboblaze/ Teravolt
Shadow tag
Parental bond
Harvest
Fur coat

A-
sturdy
Psychic surge
Arena trap

B+
Dazzling/ queenly majesty
Comatose
Poison heal

B
Illusion
Regenerator
Simple

Stuff you read past this point is gimmicky and situational so take this with a grain of salt.

B-
Tinted lenses
Drizzle
Flare boost

B
Desolate land
Moody
Primordial sea

B-
Snow warning
Drought
Bad dreams

C+
Sand stream
Swift swim
Slush rush

C
Sand rush
chlorophyll

C-
guts

D+
aftermath

Anything past this point is pointless to run so don’t.
 
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Alright ok fellows here's your long awaited post by me
Yes, yes I know you people missed my posts

Just going to be dropping a team that Yourself and I made: :celesteela: :audino-mega: :slowbro-mega: :heatran: :blissey: :chansey:
The idea was to build around RegenVest Maud, after Yourself posted some calcs of it in #usum-calcs in the Pure Hackmons Discord. However, we later changed it to RegenVest Steela, and this is what we got.

Also uh splodge helped a bit too shoutout to them
 
Well Well Well. Guess who it is, the fun police, SpamtonZZZSpamton, here to nickpick some random stuff I saw as a scrolled down. So, let's begin.
:mind-plate: Mind Plate
Which mon uses this? Like actually what uses this. The only thing I can think of is as a improof tool for another mon on your team, but what WG mons are weak to Psychic that you need to defend?
:focus-sash: Focus Sash
If Shed Shell gets S, then this should as well. Sash is the Shed Shell of HO. Like 3/4ths of the team has it. And, just like Shed Shell, Balance can very well use Sash. I know you are the stall guy, but this item is one of the main reasons why magic guard is so good.
:assault-vest: Assault Vest
I know you are gonna say something like "Why do you care about the low tiered stuff Spamton, stop being a dumbass and get a job", but actually what uses this. Still, it is a lower tier item, so whatever.

Anyway, I can stop my rivalry with Yourself for a sec to talk about other...strange takes I saw.

Shell Smash
This move is extremely defining. I think for a move tier list, the best way to look at it is in how different the meta would be without the move. And without shell smash, this meta would be extremely different. Honestly, I would debate that this move has had a bigger impact then Photon, because the dark type would have been good even without photon because of moongeist.
Ice Shard
Ice shard is the only thing keeping Zygarde in check. I think it should be slightly higher.
Clanging Scales
What does this hit? Like Zygarde and MRay I guess? But you know a move that hits both of those mons much harder, and hits more then just those two mons? Ice beam. I don't see why you would run this. (Also how is this above Soulblaze I get that soulblaze is not as good as it looks but Soulblaze is actually seen and this move is not.)
Knock Off
How on gods green earth is this in the same tier as 10K bolt.
Shift Gear exists. And if you are a special attacker, Shell Smash exists. And if you don't want to lose bulk, Quiver Dance exists.
Acceleock
HahahahahHahaHAhahAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Time for the real fun.

Tell me, what does this hit? Like actually, what does it hit. Here, I will help you, here is a list of "Good" mons that are hit by Accelerock super effectively. Oh yeah, also for some context, let's remember that a super effective Accelerock does the same damage as a neutral Espeed, so the general use of a 40 bp priority move is to hit WGs, as a STAB move, or a quad effective hit.

Mega Ray, Does the same damage as Espeed, MRay is not often WG.
Yveltal, can be WG, so this technically counts.
Articuno, more or less always MB or something like that because it is immune to almost all the OHKO moves, but it is quad effective.
KyuremB, Same damage as Espeed, and Kyurem is not often WG.
Ho-Oh, more or less the only one that is commonly WG and is also not weak to ice.

Ice? What about Ice? Well, if we take a look at Ice Shard, a move that hits a lot of mons, Ice Shard takes both Ray and Yveltal off of this list. So, we are left with Articuno, a bad mon, KyuremB, who takes the same damage from a neutral Espeed, and Ho-Oh, who is only used on hard stall and even then is rare.

So, now that we know Accelerock hits next to nothing that Ice Shard does not, let's look at the other thing that might save this move: use as a STAB move.

What rock types are good in this format? Lets take a look.

Mega Diance.

That's it.

And, you want to know a priority combo that Mega Diancie loves to use?

Pixalate Fakespeed, which hits everything that Accelerock does other then Ho-Oh.

Accelerock is complete hot garbage, and deserves zero mentions on any tier lists other then to dunk on how bad it is.

Now, to do some less targeted assaults on moves I hate, let's take about abilities! Yay!

B
Desolate land
Moody
Primordial sea

B-
Snow warning
Drought
Bad dreams

C+
Sand stream
Swift swim
Slush rush

C
chlorophyll

C-
guts

B+
aftermath
Oh no.
Anything past this point is either unreliable, gimmicky or simply outclassed by better abilities that have some same
purpose but do that thing better.
OH NO.
So, somehow all the abilities above are not
unreliable, gimmicky or simply outclassed by better abilities that have some same purpose but do that thing better.
I am going to assume that this is a formatting error, and this text should have been above B tier. But, if it isn't, then this is gonna be fun.

Desolate land: Was a niche Cteam to Water Bubble AshGren on PDon spam, and even then Water Absorb outclassed it because it was not revealed instantly.

Moody: No. Stop that. Haze exists.

Primortal Sea: Maybe on like a Scizor or a Ferrothorn? Still probably not because once again, it is revealed instantly and shows the opponent that you are clearly not WG, while something like Flash Fire can be a surprise tactic. Both are bad, but PSea is arguably worse.

Snow Warning: Tell me right now, what the hell wants to run this? What would it do for a team? Enable AVeil? Slush Rush? AVeil is not worth a otherwise useless ability, and having another mon with Slush Rush is a extremely bad idea. It's all about opportunity cost, and Snow Warning is noware close to worth those costs.

Sand Steam: Same as above, zero rock types that want the SpD boost, and other mons enabled by Sandstorm are not worth it in the slightest.

Slush Rush, Swift Swim, and Chlorophyll (Not sure why Sand Rush didn't make it): Not worth the cost. At all. Just use a scarf, please.

Guts: Do YOU want a version of Huge Power that is 50% weaker, requires a item, and makes you take chip damage every turn in exchange for not being able to be burnt a second time? Guts is here to answer this incredibly unnecessary request! Just use HP with a Lum Berry, it is better in like every way. (Also, fun fact, if you don't have STAB, even Guts Facade does less damage then HP 70 BP Facade. Just wow.

Aftermath:...Innards Out.

Anyway, that last section was probably just a formatting error, but it is still fun to talk about. Also btw, this is not a personal attack on any person who posted any of these, it is a attack on the idea, not the person behind it. Keep that in mind, I think all of you are (Probably) Cool people, some of your ideas just might not be as cool.
 
Well Well Well. Guess who it is, the fun police, SpamtonZZZSpamton, here to nickpick some random stuff I saw as a scrolled down. So, let's begin.

Which mon uses this? Like actually what uses this. The only thing I can think of is as a improof tool for another mon on your team, but what WG mons are weak to Psychic that you need to defend?

If Shed Shell gets S, then this should as well. Sash is the Shed Shell of HO. Like 3/4ths of the team has it. And, just like Shed Shell, Balance can very well use Sash. I know you are the stall guy, but this item is one of the main reasons why magic guard is so good.

I know you are gonna say something like "Why do you care about the low tiered stuff Spamton, stop being a dumbass and get a job", but actually what uses this. Still, it is a lower tier item, so whatever.

Anyway, I can stop my rivalry with Yourself for a sec to talk about other...strange takes I saw.


This move is extremely defining. I think for a move tier list, the best way to look at it is in how different the meta would be without the move. And without shell smash, this meta would be extremely different. Honestly, I would debate that this move has had a bigger impact then Photon, because the dark type would have been good even without photon because of moongeist.

Ice shard is the only thing keeping Zygarde in check. I think it should be slightly higher.

What does this hit? Like Zygarde and MRay I guess? But you know a move that hits both of those mons much harder, and hits more then just those two mons? Ice beam. I don't see why you would run this. (Also how is this above Soulblaze I get that soulblaze is not as good as it looks but Soulblaze is actually seen and this move is not.)

How on gods green earth is this in the same tier as 10K bolt.

Shift Gear exists. And if you are a special attacker, Shell Smash exists. And if you don't want to lose bulk, Quiver Dance exists.

HahahahahHahaHAhahAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Time for the real fun.

Tell me, what does this hit? Like actually, what does it hit. Here, I will help you, here is a list of "Good" mons that are hit by Accelerock super effectively. Oh yeah, also for some context, let's remember that a super effective Accelerock does the same damage as a neutral Espeed, so the general use of a 40 bp priority move is to hit WGs, as a STAB move, or a quad effective hit.

Mega Ray, Does the same damage as Espeed, MRay is not often WG.
Yveltal, can be WG, so this technically counts.
Articuno, more or less always MB or something like that because it is immune to almost all the OHKO moves, but it is quad effective.
KyuremB, Same damage as Espeed, and Kyurem is not often WG.
Ho-Oh, more or less the only one that is commonly WG and is also not weak to ice.

Ice? What about Ice? Well, if we take a look at Ice Shard, a move that hits a lot of mons, Ice Shard takes both Ray and Yveltal off of this list. So, we are left with Articuno, a bad mon, KyuremB, who takes the same damage from a neutral Espeed, and Ho-Oh, who is only used on hard stall and even then is rare.

So, now that we know Accelerock hits next to nothing that Ice Shard does not, let's look at the other thing that might save this move: use as a STAB move.

What rock types are good in this format? Lets take a look.

Mega Diance.

That's it.

And, you want to know a priority combo that Mega Diancie loves to use?

Pixalate Fakespeed, which hits everything that Accelerock does other then Ho-Oh.

Accelerock is complete hot garbage, and deserves zero mentions on any tier lists other then to dunk on how bad it is.

Now, to do some less targeted assaults on moves I hate, let's take about abilities! Yay!


Oh no.

OH NO.
So, somehow all the abilities above are not

I am going to assume that this is a formatting error, and this text should have been above B tier. But, if it isn't, then this is gonna be fun.

Desolate land: Was a niche Cteam to Water Bubble AshGren on PDon spam, and even then Water Absorb outclassed it because it was not revealed instantly.

Moody: No. Stop that. Haze exists.

Primortal Sea: Maybe on like a Scizor or a Ferrothorn? Still probably not because once again, it is revealed instantly and shows the opponent that you are clearly not WG, while something like Flash Fire can be a surprise tactic. Both are bad, but PSea is arguably worse.

Snow Warning: Tell me right now, what the hell wants to run this? What would it do for a team? Enable AVeil? Slush Rush? AVeil is not worth a otherwise useless ability, and having another mon with Slush Rush is a extremely bad idea. It's all about opportunity cost, and Snow Warning is noware close to worth those costs.

Sand Steam: Same as above, zero rock types that want the SpD boost, and other mons enabled by Sandstorm are not worth it in the slightest.

Slush Rush, Swift Swim, and Chlorophyll (Not sure why Sand Rush didn't make it): Not worth the cost. At all. Just use a scarf, please.

Guts: Do YOU want a version of Huge Power that is 50% weaker, requires a item, and makes you take chip damage every turn in exchange for not being able to be burnt a second time? Guts is here to answer this incredibly unnecessary request! Just use HP with a Lum Berry, it is better in like every way. (Also, fun fact, if you don't have STAB, even Guts Facade does less damage then HP 70 BP Facade. Just wow.

Aftermath:...Innards Out.

Anyway, that last section was probably just a formatting error, but it is still fun to talk about. Also btw, this is not a personal attack on any person who posted any of these, it is an attack on the idea, not the person behind it. Keep that in mind, I think all of you are (Probably) Cool people, some of your ideas just might not be as cool.
Not to make a one liner, but to also make a one liner but MMX and MMY sometimes run Mind Plate

I’ll add more later when I’m home
 
Well Well Well. Guess who it is, the fun police, SpamtonZZZSpamton, here to nickpick some random stuff I saw as a scrolled down. So, let's begin.
Which mon uses this? Like actually what uses this. The only thing I can think of is as a improof tool for another mon on your team, but what WG mons are weak to Psychic that you need to defend?
(mind plate) allows mmx to boost its photon and 2hko wg steels mainly without life org recoil
If Shed Shell gets S, then this should as well. Sash is the Shed Shell of HO. Like 3/4ths of the team has it. And, just like Shed Shell, Balance can very well use Sash. I know you are the stall guy, but this item is one of the main reasons why magic guard is so good.
im bias because i play everything except ho and offense, but shed shell is spammable on any team with a defensive core and offensive mons can run it. sash is mainly a ho/offense thing and is more exclusive to offensive mons, i also don't use it on most balance.
I know you are gonna say something like "Why do you care about the low tiered stuff Spamton, stop being a dumbass and get a job", but actually what uses this. Still, it is a lower tier item, so whatever.
(assault vest) good on mmx to take pbond mgar geist and arc geist notably, regenvest are usable and yes that is exactly what i thought.
 
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Hello players of Pure Hackmons. Yesterday I reached #1 on the ladder.
IMG_0186.jpeg
To me, this was really cool. So today I will be sharing the team that got me there:

COOLEST PSYSPAM
:mewtwo-mega-y:-:gyarados-mega:-:gengar-mega:-:mewtwo-mega-x:-:mewtwo-mega-y:-:kartana:
But wait! I am on vacation and the mobile interface is horrible. So, I will be sending the team when I get back.​
 
Primortal Sea: Maybe on like a Scizor or a Ferrothorn? Still probably not because once again, it is revealed instantly and shows the opponent that you are clearly not WG, while something like Flash Fire can be a surprise tactic. Both are bad, but PSea is arguably worse.
right so for starters, flash fire and psea aren't bad. imo fire on physical attackers is great because it hits all the wg steels and also beats fcs/prank reflect with the minor drawback of missing like heatran. fighting is best paired with dark/special ghost and my issue with it is you really want stab and that you miss the wg steels so it really wants a power boosting item to work, though if you are an mmx and can afford to run like lorb/mind plate/band i think fighting would be better. and finally, ground. i HATE ground. why? well it misses all the wg steels and without stab the stuff you do hit is going to wall you with fur coat or prank reflect anyways, and even with stab fire is like strictly better unless you are trying to improof imo. now lets think about doublade for a second, what fur coat actually allows it to do is wall physical non stab moves it's weak to that are like around 90 bp, and you know what the only move is that fits that description people actually use is? MMX TARROWS. now as i have just shown you im very bias and support fire moves so i actually believe flash fire is better then fc on doublade, all though really it depends on what your opponent is using. thankfully tho fire is very popular rn so it's whatever.

now for flash fire vs psea. obviously the main difference is psea loses the suprise factor but in exchange isn't ignored by mold. there is one user of mold breaker and fire, that being cb pdon. the issue is though is that that guy also runs ground so if u are weak to ground there isn't much point in psea, but a flying type like steela may be more inclined to run it. if you want to improof your own mold guy then you could use psea, but in conclusion i don't think either ability is bad.
 
mmx is so low because mmx only really kills bulkier archetypes, slaking can do both fakespeed for offense and harvest for bulkier stuff (even if it's easy to tech for nowadays) which is why it's so high, gengar is one of the best hazard setters as well as being a good anti-offense mon with scarf pbond moongeist, mmy is definitely a #3 mon imo with its speed, set variety, and still being super hard to wall with the protean set

mmx is a lot more versatile i'll give you that, but mmx needing life orb for its espeed to hit as hard as slak's isn't great due to the recoil, and you're losing out on coverage which mmx really wants. slaking makes up for its speed by mostly using priority, and it's not really meant to break bulky teams, it's more so an anti-offense guy so not hitting wonder guard super hard is fine. fakespeed not being able to selfproof (ltbts + sash isn't really reliable selfproofing anyways) is fine since you should have stuff that can revenge kill slaking like a fast no guard. sure, mmx doesn't really have reliable checks defensively, but out-offensing it with faster guys isn't too bad of a strategy especially on more offensive teams, slaking having actual defensive checks is fine imo since it's not supposed to be a breaker. harvest mmx being specthief vulnerable is a bigger deal than you make it out to be imo, mmx doesn't like taking specthief at all meanwhile slak just ignores it. i'll give you spam factor since yes mmx spam is better than slak spam, but i don't value spam factor super highly so this isn't a huge point in mmx's favor imo. while mmx is more unpredictable which is valuable on ho, slak is good vs ho which is super valuable as well.
Debated whether to make this post or not.
Out of respect,
I disagree with the statements you made about MMX.

Keep it mind, MMX has also got the most usage in PHPL and also one of the most commonly used mons on ladder, but you probably would say something like:
713.png

Anyways,

Firstly, "mmx is so low because mmx only really kills bulkier archetypes", "out-offensing it with faster guys isn't too bad of a strategy especially on more offensive teams" are not true. If you're looking to run it on Offense, you can either slap a Scarf on it to outpace anything with UTurn for momentum with the COB set being Beat Up to deal with DeoSpeed as well. This set beats "faster guys" which is supposed check MMX. If you hate choiced items, just use Webs Support. Shell Smash variants are also good on PsySurge Teams (and even without Judgement, Fur Coat mons still can't wall it well). If the set used is good on your archetype (Balance/Offense), you should be able to deal with it's respective mons and not just bulkier mons.

Next, "mmx needing life orb for its espeed to hit as hard as slak's isn't great due to the recoil, and you're losing out on coverage which mmx really wants". I'm not an Espeed supporter, it doesn't do enough, this I give it to you, but every MMX should have some sort of way to deal with fast mons (Scarf, Webs, Sneak, Espeed, Ice Shard, Innards support, Mach Punch, PsySurge, worst case scenario, sash). Keep in mind, having Life Orb doesn't only boost the priority move, it boosts other moves, for example, Sunsteel gets the OHKO on AMuk. Furthermore, coverage with Judgment + Sunsteel + Photon with a 4th move that can be anything (Low Kick, TArrows, etc.) literally hits everything while even being able to improof with mons like FCoat Doublade.

"Slaking makes up for its speed by mostly using priority, and it's not really meant to break bulky teams, it's more so an anti-offense guy so not hitting wonder guard super hard is fine." HP Slaking is helpless when it faces Steelix/any FCoat Mon/Any Steel types. Nothing is safe to swap in against MMX. When MMX wins loads of games in basically every platform you can play 7ph on, it’s hard to deny it being one of the best mons to fit on HO and Balance teams. It is also not hard to improof such a mon. MMX can run Judgment itself if it wants Improof or run something like Moonigest Beam and improof like COB's MSableye, or simply AMuk.

"Fakespeed not being able to selfproof is fine since you should have stuff that can revenge kill slaking like a fast no guard" Huh? So if the No Guard gets chipped by Early Hazards, you autolose to your Slaking? A reliable improof would be Fcoat Doublade/Solgaleo or Celesteela. But if opponent does have one of those (I have not stated all it's checks), you really can't break certain cores. From any standard teams I've seen, there are Slaking checks on every team without it being put on purpose to be an actual Slaking check. Sure, you might have other mons to beat those mons that Slak can't beat, but then you lose momentum, which is extremely valuable. But with careful playing, MMX can fully clean up a game with mons chipped slightly, where Slak can't.

For MMY and MGengar arguments, I don't really understand the arguments. MMY does way too less damage with Base Photon that it can't threaten anything without its move being Super Effective, forcing it to run Smash. This set is very prone to any priority without PsySurge/QMajesty, which is rather easy to deal with under Non-Burn Status/Entry Hazards. (Also another set that loses to BUp Scarf MMX, hehe). Imo, MMY is most competent with No Guard. It's okay spD bulk allows it to be decent at that role while threatening different coverage like Zap Cannon/Inferno which is threatening with its decent base SpA. That's pretty much it. For MGengar, not what I'm going to argue, but
718.png
it giving Arceus a free turn to set up is scary. Anyways, both set gets walled by loads of mons, for example, any Normal Type Wonder Guards + Another WG core. The PBond set never kills either WG while losing momentum. Not only that, PBond MGengar can't tank HP SSneak, thus, unless you checked with Impostor, which then the Impostor will get chipped, it's still not a reliable revenge user against MMX even if you chipped it. No Guard set loses to most MCoat WGs, but it's not even a correct comparison anyways with MMX.

Finally, MMX is the most versatile mon in this meta. For example, if you send something like DeoSpeed in, they could reveal Scarf BUp and take an early KO which is valuable. MMX can also run No Guard for some surprise KOs. MMX has loads of flexibility that some players even opted to run Magic Guard + Pursuit to beat Innards or even MBounce on it for some suprise factor which MMY and Slak can't. If you want to beat Offense so bad, just play Innards better or simply use Stall. Band MMX is decent too, I don't understand the argument that it loses to Stag. Any Non-Shed Shell mon loses to Stag if it runs the correct moves (Don't tell me you run Shed Shell HP Slaking).

If you're against a competent team, there would be something that your Slak can't hit, like any FCoat user, so basically, you're giving something free momentum every time slak comes in as it does no progress to certain mons. Sure, try double switching, if predicted, lose your only answer to that certain mon and potentially lose on spot! So basically one Mon needs loads of skill and the other can just click moves with the opponent risking everything every single swap? Ok!


Overall, MMX is better than those mons, and I should go to sleep.

719.png

Yay DeoS best Mon in the meta!

Disagree with me if you want, but stats show otherwise. If you ignore stats, it is just you being bias.
Thanks for reading
 
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Well Well Well. Guess who it is, the fun police, SpamtonZZZSpamton, here to nickpick some random stuff I saw as a scrolled down. So, let's begin.

Which mon uses this? Like actually what uses this. The only thing I can think of is as a improof tool for another mon on your team, but what WG mons are weak to Psychic that you need to defend?

If Shed Shell gets S, then this should as well. Sash is the Shed Shell of HO. Like 3/4ths of the team has it. And, just like Shed Shell, Balance can very well use Sash. I know you are the stall guy, but this item is one of the main reasons why magic guard is so good.

I know you are gonna say something like "Why do you care about the low tiered stuff Spamton, stop being a dumbass and get a job", but actually what uses this. Still, it is a lower tier item, so whatever.

Anyway, I can stop my rivalry with Yourself for a sec to talk about other...strange takes I saw.


This move is extremely defining. I think for a move tier list, the best way to look at it is in how different the meta would be without the move. And without shell smash, this meta would be extremely different. Honestly, I would debate that this move has had a bigger impact then Photon, because the dark type would have been good even without photon because of moongeist.

Ice shard is the only thing keeping Zygarde in check. I think it should be slightly higher.

What does this hit? Like Zygarde and MRay I guess? But you know a move that hits both of those mons much harder, and hits more then just those two mons? Ice beam. I don't see why you would run this. (Also how is this above Soulblaze I get that soulblaze is not as good as it looks but Soulblaze is actually seen and this move is not.)

How on gods green earth is this in the same tier as 10K bolt.

Shift Gear exists. And if you are a special attacker, Shell Smash exists. And if you don't want to lose bulk, Quiver Dance exists.

HahahahahHahaHAhahAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Time for the real fun.

Tell me, what does this hit? Like actually, what does it hit. Here, I will help you, here is a list of "Good" mons that are hit by Accelerock super effectively. Oh yeah, also for some context, let's remember that a super effective Accelerock does the same damage as a neutral Espeed, so the general use of a 40 bp priority move is to hit WGs, as a STAB move, or a quad effective hit.

Mega Ray, Does the same damage as Espeed, MRay is not often WG.
Yveltal, can be WG, so this technically counts.
Articuno, more or less always MB or something like that because it is immune to almost all the OHKO moves, but it is quad effective.
KyuremB, Same damage as Espeed, and Kyurem is not often WG.
Ho-Oh, more or less the only one that is commonly WG and is also not weak to ice.

Ice? What about Ice? Well, if we take a look at Ice Shard, a move that hits a lot of mons, Ice Shard takes both Ray and Yveltal off of this list. So, we are left with Articuno, a bad mon, KyuremB, who takes the same damage from a neutral Espeed, and Ho-Oh, who is only used on hard stall and even then is rare.

So, now that we know Accelerock hits next to nothing that Ice Shard does not, let's look at the other thing that might save this move: use as a STAB move.

What rock types are good in this format? Lets take a look.

Mega Diance.

That's it.

And, you want to know a priority combo that Mega Diancie loves to use?

Pixalate Fakespeed, which hits everything that Accelerock does other then Ho-Oh.

Accelerock is complete hot garbage, and deserves zero mentions on any tier lists other then to dunk on how bad it is.

Now, to do some less targeted assaults on moves I hate, let's take about abilities! Yay!


Oh no.

OH NO.
So, somehow all the abilities above are not

I am going to assume that this is a formatting error, and this text should have been above B tier. But, if it isn't, then this is gonna be fun.

Desolate land: Was a niche Cteam to Water Bubble AshGren on PDon spam, and even then Water Absorb outclassed it because it was not revealed instantly.

Moody: No. Stop that. Haze exists.

Primortal Sea: Maybe on like a Scizor or a Ferrothorn? Still probably not because once again, it is revealed instantly and shows the opponent that you are clearly not WG, while something like Flash Fire can be a surprise tactic. Both are bad, but PSea is arguably worse.

Snow Warning: Tell me right now, what the hell wants to run this? What would it do for a team? Enable AVeil? Slush Rush? AVeil is not worth a otherwise useless ability, and having another mon with Slush Rush is a extremely bad idea. It's all about opportunity cost, and Snow Warning is noware close to worth those costs.

Sand Steam: Same as above, zero rock types that want the SpD boost, and other mons enabled by Sandstorm are not worth it in the slightest.

Slush Rush, Swift Swim, and Chlorophyll (Not sure why Sand Rush didn't make it): Not worth the cost. At all. Just use a scarf, please.

Guts: Do YOU want a version of Huge Power that is 50% weaker, requires a item, and makes you take chip damage every turn in exchange for not being able to be burnt a second time? Guts is here to answer this incredibly unnecessary request! Just use HP with a Lum Berry, it is better in like every way. (Also, fun fact, if you don't have STAB, even Guts Facade does less damage then HP 70 BP Facade. Just wow.

Aftermath:...Innards Out.

Anyway, that last section was probably just a formatting error, but it is still fun to talk about. Also btw, this is not a personal attack on any person who posted any of these, it is a attack on the idea, not the person behind it. Keep that in mind, I think all of you are (Probably) Cool people, some of your ideas just might not be as cool.

Well, although some stuff on this list sucks (which is why it’s ranked low) I think some abilities may have an atom sized niche over higher ranked abilities (yes even aftermath and guts over innards out and huge power).
Sooooo let’s start with guts, I think it could be well I almost good. It’s never good and never will but just like shedinja on some stall teams it could have a tiny niche over guts. First off it can improof (kinda) because they will not be holding a burn orb. Also status immunity is nice I guess and ok yeah this sucks just use hp or pp guys but I shall not edit my post.
Ok for aftermath, i could see something like sash aftermath mmx or mmy to make defending against it pretty difficult but… yeah innards is way better.
For the weather ones, well I could use sca- BAND (and the ability to switch moves) and that’s it! goodbye

(I’ll be adding sand rush to there lol (and also making the rankings make more scenes))
 
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Debated whether to make this post or not.
Out of respect,
I disagree with the statements you made about MMX.

Keep it mind, MMX has also got the most usage in PHPL and also one of the most commonly used mons on ladder, but you probably would say something like:
View attachment 751145
Anyways,

Firstly, "mmx is so low because mmx only really kills bulkier archetypes", "out-offensing it with faster guys isn't too bad of a strategy especially on more offensive teams" are not true. If you're looking to run it on Offense, you can either slap a Scarf on it to outpace anything with UTurn for momentum with the COB set being Beat Up to deal with DeoSpeed as well. This set beats "faster guys" which is supposed check MMX. If you hate choiced items, just use Webs Support. Shell Smash variants are also good on PsySurge Teams (and even without Judgement, Fur Coat mons still can't wall it well). If the set used is good on your archetype (Balance/Offense), you should be able to deal with it's respective mons and not just bulkier mons.

Next, "mmx needing life orb for its espeed to hit as hard as slak's isn't great due to the recoil, and you're losing out on coverage which mmx really wants". I'm not an Espeed supporter, it doesn't do enough, this I give it to you, but every MMX should have some sort of way to deal with fast mons (Scarf, Webs, Sneak, Espeed, Ice Shard, Innards support, Mach Punch, PsySurge, worst case scenario, sash). Keep in mind, having Life Orb doesn't only boost the priority move, it boosts other moves, for example, Sunsteel gets the OHKO on AMuk. Furthermore, coverage with Judgment + Sunsteel + Photon with a 4th move that can be anything (Low Kick, TArrows, etc.) literally hits everything while even being able to improof with mons like FCoat Doublade.

"Slaking makes up for its speed by mostly using priority, and it's not really meant to break bulky teams, it's more so an anti-offense guy so not hitting wonder guard super hard is fine." HP Slaking is helpless when it faces Steelix/any FCoat Mon/Any Steel types. Nothing is safe to swap in against MMX. When MMX wins loads of games in basically every platform you can play 7ph on, it’s hard to deny it being one of the best mons to fit on HO and Balance teams. It is also not hard to improof such a mon. MMX can run Judgment itself if it wants Improof or run something like Moonigest Beam and improof like COB's MSableye, or simply AMuk.

"Fakespeed not being able to selfproof is fine since you should have stuff that can revenge kill slaking like a fast no guard" Huh? So if the No Guard gets chipped by Early Hazards, you autolose to your Slaking? A reliable improof would be Fcoat Doublade/Solgaleo or Celesteela. But if opponent does have one of those (I have not stated all it's checks), you really can't break certain cores. From any standard teams I've seen, there are Slaking checks on every team without it being put on purpose to be an actual Slaking check. Sure, you might have other mons to beat those mons that Slak can't beat, but then you lose momentum, which is extremely valuable. But with careful playing, MMX can fully clean up a game with mons chipped slightly, where Slak can't.

For MMY and MGengar arguments, I don't really understand the arguments. MMY does way too less damage with Base Photon that it can't threaten anything without its move being Super Effective, forcing it to run Smash. This set is very prone to any priority without PsySurge/QMajesty, which is rather easy to deal with under Non-Burn Status/Entry Hazards. (Also another set that loses to BUp Scarf MMX, hehe). Imo, MMY is most competent with No Guard. It's okay spD bulk allows it to be decent at that role while threatening different coverage like Zap Cannon/Inferno which is threatening with its decent base SpA. That's pretty much it. For MGengar, not what I'm going to argue, but View attachment 751166it giving Arceus a free turn to set up is scary. Anyways, both set gets walled by loads of mons, for example, any Normal Type Wonder Guards + Another WG core. The PBond set never kills either WG while losing momentum. Not only that, PBond MGengar can't tank HP SSneak, thus, unless you checked with Impostor, which then the Impostor will get chipped, it's still not a reliable revenge user against MMX even if you chipped it. No Guard set loses to most MCoat WGs, but it's not even a correct comparison anyways with MMX.

Finally, MMX is the most versatile mon in this meta. For example, if you send something like DeoSpeed in, they could reveal Scarf BUp and take an early KO which is valuable. MMX can also run No Guard for some surprise KOs. MMX has loads of flexibility that some players even opted to run Magic Guard + Pursuit to beat Innards or even MBounce on it for some suprise factor which MMY and Slak can't. If you want to beat Offense so bad, just play Innards better or simply use Stall. Band MMX is decent too, I don't understand the argument that it loses to Stag. Any Non-Shed Shell mon loses to Stag if it runs the correct moves (Don't tell me you run Shed Shell HP Slaking).

If you're against a competent team, there would be something that your Slak can't hit, like any FCoat user, so basically, you're giving something free momentum every time slak comes in as it does no progress to certain mons. Sure, try double switching, if predicted, lose your only answer to that certain mon and potentially lose on spot! So basically one Mon needs loads of skill and the other can just click moves with the opponent risking everything every single swap? Ok!


Overall, MMX is better than those mons, and I should go to sleep.

View attachment 751167
Yay DeoS best Mon in the meta!

Disagree with me if you want, but stats show otherwise. If you ignore stats, it is just you being bias.
Thanks for reading
I totally agree with what you said and I wanna add a few of my personal thoughts. Saying arceus being the best wg is really crazy. It’s usable but a lot far from being the best. The only situation its good is against the balanced. Cause for stall they can wall you and for offense you wont have the turn to setup. As a late game sweeper I can say its outclassed by things like wg Gren or even the hoopa-u. If you are talking about first impression immunity then kart is right there being able to run spore. And people tend to forget how to rate things. MMX seems to be bad is because the whole metagame is trying to counter mmx. It’s like xerneas in vgc 2016, it doesnt seems to be too good because everyone is making a solution of them. You cant just go to the conclusion xerneas is bad at this point. So is mmx.
 
Debated whether to make this post or not.
Out of respect,
I disagree with the statements you made about MMX.

Keep it mind, MMX has also got the most usage in PHPL and also one of the most commonly used mons on ladder, but you probably would say something like:
View attachment 751145
Anyways,

Firstly, "mmx is so low because mmx only really kills bulkier archetypes", "out-offensing it with faster guys isn't too bad of a strategy especially on more offensive teams" are not true. If you're looking to run it on Offense, you can either slap a Scarf on it to outpace anything with UTurn for momentum with the COB set being Beat Up to deal with DeoSpeed as well. This set beats "faster guys" which is supposed check MMX. If you hate choiced items, just use Webs Support. Shell Smash variants are also good on PsySurge Teams (and even without Judgement, Fur Coat mons still can't wall it well). If the set used is good on your archetype (Balance/Offense), you should be able to deal with it's respective mons and not just bulkier mons.

Next, "mmx needing life orb for its espeed to hit as hard as slak's isn't great due to the recoil, and you're losing out on coverage which mmx really wants". I'm not an Espeed supporter, it doesn't do enough, this I give it to you, but every MMX should have some sort of way to deal with fast mons (Scarf, Webs, Sneak, Espeed, Ice Shard, Innards support, Mach Punch, PsySurge, worst case scenario, sash). Keep in mind, having Life Orb doesn't only boost the priority move, it boosts other moves, for example, Sunsteel gets the OHKO on AMuk. Furthermore, coverage with Judgment + Sunsteel + Photon with a 4th move that can be anything (Low Kick, TArrows, etc.) literally hits everything while even being able to improof with mons like FCoat Doublade.
im kind of lost on what ur saying here but the gist of it is mmx can run stuff like priority or scarf to deal with faster stuff? if that is what you are saying the issue is priority comes at the cost of either losing you coverage (e speed) or being hella exploitable (first impresssion), web support is extremely team specific to like ho with a dedicated hazard lead, and running a scarf mean you are choice locked and comes with the opportunity cost of not having another item meaning you can't improof with a plate, are trappable, and are not using a power boosting item.
"Slaking makes up for its speed by mostly using priority, and it's not really meant to break bulky teams, it's more so an anti-offense guy so not hitting wonder guard super hard is fine." HP Slaking is helpless when it faces Steelix/any FCoat Mon/Any Steel types. Nothing is safe to swap in against MMX. When MMX wins loads of games in basically every platform you can play 7ph on, it’s hard to deny it being one of the best mons to fit on HO and Balance teams. It is also not hard to improof such a mon. MMX can run Judgment itself if it wants Improof or run something like Moonigest Beam and improof like COB's MSableye, or simply AMuk.
it is slaking's teamates job to break teams, aswell even if slaking is wallable it can still force out offensive mons potentially allowing you to double switch and i find often times slaking wants to trade itself with innards with pursuit seeing as most balance run innards these days, and anyways this only applies against bulkier archetypes which to be quite frank are just worse then more offensive ones. improofing mmx is relatively easy but it takes an item slot or forces you to run some niche pick like heatran for example if you do want a difficult to wall set.
For MMY and MGengar arguments, I don't really understand the arguments. MMY does way too less damage with Base Photon that it can't threaten anything without its move being Super Effective, forcing it to run Smash. This set is very prone to any priority without PsySurge/QMajesty, which is rather easy to deal with under Non-Burn Status/Entry Hazards. (Also another set that loses to BUp Scarf MMX, hehe). Imo, MMY is most competent with No Guard. It's okay spD bulk allows it to be decent at that role while threatening different coverage like Zap Cannon/Inferno which is threatening with its decent base SpA. That's pretty much it. For MGengar, not what I'm going to argue, but View attachment 751166it giving Arceus a free turn to set up is scary. Anyways, both set gets walled by loads of mons, for example, any Normal Type Wonder Guards + Another WG core. The PBond set never kills either WG while losing momentum. Not only that, PBond MGengar can't tank HP SSneak, thus, unless you checked with Impostor, which then the Impostor will get chipped, it's still not a reliable revenge user against MMX even if you chipped it. No Guard set loses to most MCoat WGs, but it's not even a correct comparison anyways with MMX.
you completely ignored some of mmy and mgar's best sets. i think the mmy supporters generally think this set (https://pokepast.es/dc24ff7f6d480ba1) is its best set with it being walled by like a few prankster mons geist can't 2hko and that's it. main criticism against this set is it fails to pick up ohkos against a lot of geist walls with sunsteel at +2 but i think the fact protean makes it sthief immune mitages the issue, and unlike mmx this guy gets to be 140 base speed whilst being just as difficult to wall. as for gengar, you criticize it not being great into bulkier teams like you did with slaking but again this is a dedicated anti offense mon so it's not its job to break and tbf it's not even awful at it either. giving arceus a free turn is scary depending on whether your team has a dedicated answer to it, in which any balance or bulkier should be able to answer it by running an mcoat geist wall like maud, and mgar can still be threating to arceus by running a fighting move and there's of course the option of double switching. idk why you are saying it needs to chip mmx to kill it pbond geist literally ohkos it. "no guard loses to most mcoat wgs" is wrong because said wonder guards have to actually be in on the gengar and click mcoat so it is very possible for you to outplay them. also idk why you're pointing out it dies to sneak nobody runs that move because it can't kill any of the defensive mons it hits super effectively and misses the ohko on stuff like mmy and mmx, and it is risky for an mmx to click sneak into a full health mgar anyways because it could potentially be sash.
Finally, MMX is the most versatile mon in this meta. For example, if you send something like DeoSpeed in, they could reveal Scarf BUp and take an early KO which is valuable. MMX can also run No Guard for some surprise KOs. MMX has loads of flexibility that some players even opted to run Magic Guard + Pursuit to beat Innards or even MBounce on it for some suprise factor which MMY and Slak can't. If you want to beat Offense so bad, just play Innards better or simply use Stall. Band MMX is decent too, I don't understand the argument that it loses to Stag. Any Non-Shed Shell mon loses to Stag if it runs the correct moves (Don't tell me you run Shed Shell HP Slaking).
i don't think mmx is the most versatile mon in the format, i would give that title to mmy or slaking. mmx is mainly just huge power which can have different coverage and different items, and anything else is either just used for suprise factor or ran on spam which i cant really take too seriously. mmy has like 50 million sets and of the top of my head i can think of no guard, dazzling, psychic terrain, protean, wonder guard, magic guard, huge power, sniper, stake out, ect all tho most of them fill a similar role. slaking can fill many roles with different sets being a revenge killer, a breaker, a sweeper, a harvest user (basically the only thing keeping semistall playable) and a defensive wonder guard, and slaking is at the very least good at all of these roles.
If you're against a competent team, there would be something that your Slak can't hit, like any FCoat user, so basically, you're giving something free momentum every time slak comes in as it does no progress to certain mons. Sure, try double switching, if predicted, lose your only answer to that certain mon and potentially lose on spot! So basically one Mon needs loads of skill and the other can just click moves with the opponent risking everything every single swap? Ok!
"if you're against a competent team there will be something it cant hit" what? do you mean if you're against a balance or stall there will be something it can't, because offense and ho are sure as hell competent playstyles. i think you have brought this same point up in this post like 3 times now but you say double switching is risky as if it's not a massive risk for your opponent to also stay in on the slaking. you're also comparing mmx to slaking in the context of an opposing balance, and you don't seem to mention the fact that the roles are reversed into offense and ho which mind you are just better then balance.
 
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this prob won't make sense since i'm focusing on ag rn but oh well
Firstly, "mmx is so low because mmx only really kills bulkier archetypes", "out-offensing it with faster guys isn't too bad of a strategy especially on more offensive teams" are not true. If you're looking to run it on Offense, you can either slap a Scarf on it to outpace anything with UTurn for momentum with the COB set being Beat Up to deal with DeoSpeed as well. This set beats "faster guys" which is supposed check MMX. If you hate choiced items, just use Webs Support. Shell Smash variants are also good on PsySurge Teams (and even without Judgement, Fur Coat mons still can't wall it well). If the set used is good on your archetype (Balance/Offense), you should be able to deal with it's respective mons and not just bulkier mons.
scarf locking into coverage moves isn't great and gives free turns for offensive wg guys, and your moldy moves don't have a power boost so they don't hit hard enough to do their job well (plus they usually just activate sash anyways). saying "just use webs" also doesn't work since a lot of offense also has webs, plus you should have ways to play around webs setters anyways. shell smash mmx has its own issues that make me not like it that much, plus you could use a different sweeper who's usually better at that job anyways.
"Fakespeed not being able to selfproof is fine since you should have stuff that can revenge kill slaking like a fast no guard" Huh? So if the No Guard gets chipped by Early Hazards, you autolose to your Slaking? A reliable improof would be Fcoat Doublade/Solgaleo or Celesteela. But if opponent does have one of those (I have not stated all it's checks), you really can't break certain cores. From any standard teams I've seen, there are Slaking checks on every team without it being put on purpose to be an actual Slaking check. Sure, you might have other mons to beat those mons that Slak can't beat, but then you lose momentum, which is extremely valuable. But with careful playing, MMX can fully clean up a game with mons chipped slightly, where Slak can't.
first off ngl i completely forgot innards existed since i don't build with it much but you can also use that to proof. second, you shouldn't let hazards get up in the first place so you don't have to worry about imp sweeping you. also, slaking isn't meant to break it's an anti-offense guy (i mentioned this in my og post but you seemed to just ignore that), which imo is more valuable than breaking.
For MMY and MGengar arguments, I don't really understand the arguments. MMY does way too less damage with Base Photon that it can't threaten anything without its move being Super Effective, forcing it to run Smash. This set is very prone to any priority without PsySurge/QMajesty, which is rather easy to deal with under Non-Burn Status/Entry Hazards. (Also another set that loses to BUp Scarf MMX, hehe). Imo, MMY is most competent with No Guard. It's okay spD bulk allows it to be decent at that role while threatening different coverage like Zap Cannon/Inferno which is threatening with its decent base SpA. That's pretty much it. For MGengar, not what I'm going to argue, but 718.pngit giving Arceus a free turn to set up is scary. Anyways, both set gets walled by loads of mons, for example, any Normal Type Wonder Guards + Another WG core. The PBond set never kills either WG while losing momentum. Not only that, PBond MGengar can't tank HP SSneak, thus, unless you checked with Impostor, which then the Impostor will get chipped, it's still not a reliable revenge user against MMX even if you chipped it. No Guard set loses to most MCoat WGs, but it's not even a correct comparison anyways with MMX.
yourself already responded to this and i agree with everything he said just read that.
Finally, MMX is the most versatile mon in this meta. For example, if you send something like DeoSpeed in, they could reveal Scarf BUp and take an early KO which is valuable. MMX can also run No Guard for some surprise KOs. MMX has loads of flexibility that some players even opted to run Magic Guard + Pursuit to beat Innards or even MBounce on it for some suprise factor which MMY and Slak can't. If you want to beat Offense so bad, just play Innards better or simply use Stall. Band MMX is decent too, I don't understand the argument that it loses to Stag. Any Non-Shed Shell mon loses to Stag if it runs the correct moves (Don't tell me you run Shed Shell HP Slaking).
mmx is definitely not the most versatile mon in the meta i genuinely do not understand where you get this from. mmx is really only good at being a huge power mon, all other sets imo are usually outclassed by other mons and are mostly only used on spam which isn't too common and isn't enough of a point in mmx's favor imo. also mmy doesn't have surprise factor??? this thing can run so many different sets a lot of the appeal of this mon is surprise factor. offense can and often will have multiple mons you can't wall, you can't just say "use innards better" when you can only innards one guy, and stall usually doesn't have a good offense mu so idk why you're saying to use it. band mmx is hot garbage and a throw in the builder, wayyyyyy too inflexible, and loses to stag way more than other mons since you can't even attempt to chip it with priority or survive with sash or anything like that.
If you're against a competent team, there would be something that your Slak can't hit, like any FCoat user, so basically, you're giving something free momentum every time slak comes in as it does no progress to certain mons. Sure, try double switching, if predicted, lose your only answer to that certain mon and potentially lose on spot! So basically one Mon needs loads of skill and the other can just click moves with the opponent risking everything every single swap? Ok!
once again read yourself's post
Disagree with me if you want, but stats show otherwise. If you ignore stats, it is just you being bias.
the only stats are ladder and phpl (i guess hpl??? but also get real that's way too outdated), ladder is ladder i genuinely could not give a shit about ladder and idt the meta was fully developed in phpl so i don't like using it to back up my claims.
 
Hello again PHers! A while back I hit #1 on the ladder and said that I would share my team when I got back from vacation. Well, today is the day! Behold:

COOLEST PSYSPAM (peak rank 1 at 1685)
:mewtwo-mega-y:-:gyarados-mega:-:gengar-mega:-:mewtwo-mega-x:-:mewtwo-mega-y:-:kartana:

(click to view paste)

Team Backstory and Old Versions
Originally, this was a BO team that I made back in April. (:mewtwo-mega-y:-:deoxys-attack:-:mewtwo-mega-y:-:mewtwo-mega-x:-:audino-mega:-:chansey:) This team had a Wonder Guard MMX+ MAud core, which was what made the team a BO instead of an HO. It also had MMY filling the role of MGar, used for better overall stats than Gengar. Also, No Guard MGar did not really exist back then. Innards Chansey filled the Kart slot for easier sacs and a No Guard advantage, and it had a set that I personally liked a lot, being Naughty Lagging Tail Switcheroo.

I revisited the team a while after, adding PBond MMY to the mix. (:mewtwo-mega-y:-:deoxys-attack:-:mewtwo-mega-y:-:mewtwo-mega-x:-:mewtwo-mega-y:-:blissey:) Some other notable differences were Blissey over Chansey for better Improofing (with a Gentle nature), Arena Trap self-Improofed Deo-A, First Impression Sash MMX, and U-Turn MMY for sash-breaking and an overall better STag matchup.

The final team was very hard to come up with, but I eventually settled with a Magic Guard MGyara over Deo-A for Innards control, MGar as my NO Guard, Huge Power Scarf MMX, Sash Spore PBond MMY, and Prankbond Kart.

Team Breakdown
Now, I will go over my thought process on every mon. First,
:mewtwo-mega-y:-----
The first MMY on the team is my usual Psychic Terrain lead and an extremely powerful Swiss Army knife. It can support teammates with Spore, deal damage with Photon Geyser, set rocks, and pivot out of the field. The Terrain Extender item ensures its Psychic Terrain lasts for 8 turns, and I gave it a Timid Nature to outspeed MMX, MGar, and MLop. I was lingering on the idea of a Calm Nature to survive Moongeist Beam from Modest PBond MGar, but in the end I decided not to, as Speed was too valuable.
:mewtwo-mega-y:-:gyarados-mega:----
This mon is here to kill Innards Out Blissey and emerge unscathed. It's also my sole Defogger, and as a bonus it can click SThief for stealing boosts. I had Toxic Orb on there for a while, but Safety Goggles' immediate activation felt much less clunky. This mon is the only one on the team with 252 HP, as most residual damage supported by 248 is canceled out by Magic Guard.
:mewtwo-mega-y:-:gyarados-mega:-:gengar-mega:---
No Guard MGar is here to dish out huge damage and disrupt teams with Sing. Shell Smash allows MGar more Moongeist damage and a valuable speed boost, and Sheer Cold was picked over Fissure to hit Flying types, which are steadily rising in popularity.
:mewtwo-mega-y:-:gyarados-mega:-:gengar-mega:-:mewtwo-mega-x:--
MMX is one of the most valuable pieces of the team because of its Choice Scarf allowing it to function as a speed control option. A Jolly nature was implemented for a better PBond MGar matchup, as the Choice Scarf would allow it to outspeed Scarf variants. V-Create does more damage than Photon Geyser on regular terrain, and it also functions as Fire-type coverage. U-Turn is great for pivoting (and OHKOing MMY in the process), and Sacred Sword kills every single Normal-type in the game.
:mewtwo-mega-y:-:gyarados-mega:-:gengar-mega:-:mewtwo-mega-x:-:mewtwo-mega-y:-
The PBond MMY was suggested by ReSolaris after I lost badly to MMX spam. It also helps against No Guard MLop, Sash MGar, and every other Sasher if rocks aren't up. Two Moldy Moves were necessary to hit Dark- and Normal-types, and Spore is there because Spore. Keep in mind that this set has a roll to kill Kartana with Moongeist Beam, so you'll want to have Psychic Terrain Photon Geyser instead, as it does more damage.
:mewtwo-mega-y:-:gyarados-mega:-:gengar-mega:-:mewtwo-mega-x:-:mewtwo-mega-y:-:kartana:
Finally, Kart. Prankbond Kart is objectively better than Innards in most ways except the No Guard matchup, which is a bit rocky. This is basically Gold's set but with Jolly Nature Imprison to cteam other Kart leads, and with 248 Speed EVs to click SThief on other, more offensive Karts.

But you may be wondering where the Improofs are. I'm running out of time here, so you'll have to guess Improofs yourself. Goodbye!
 
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no guard vr because i'm bored and don't wanna work on my regular vr, if something isn't included that you think should be it's probably in the "random shit" umbrella but don't be afraid to ask about mons i should add i probably missed something

S Rank
S

 nothing
S-
1. :gengar-mega: Gengar-Mega
best hazard setter in the game imo, forces up tspikes and so many things love tspikes chip, shoutout to this guy he's hella broken

A Rank
A+
2. :deoxys-speed: Deoxys-Speed
don't use the standard gastro ng set on this guy it sucks use it as a hazard lead, loses to hp slaker/pbond gar but being the fastest mon in the game is just super good
3. :kartana: Kartana
has barely any walls (and it can tech for said walls super easily), super good balance killer but everything beats balance rn so it isn't too special
A
nothing again
A-
4. :lopunny-mega: Lopunny-Mega
i feel like i diss this mon a lot but it isn't bad, moongeist immunity + outspeeding 130s are cool, outsped by mmy though so i don't like this guy too much
5. :mewtwo-mega-y: Mewtwo-Mega-Y
great speed + super high special attack are both really good, kinda frail physically though which sucks
B Rank
B+
6. :pheromosa: Pheromosa
outspeeds like everything which is super nice but also you're ungodly frail and hit like a wet paper noodle
7. :doublade::necrozma-ultra::audino-mega: random shit
surprising something with an unexpected fissure/sheer cold is funny as hell when it works, scouting isn't too difficult though so you do have to be careful with when you reveal your ohko move
8. :solgaleo: Solgaleo
i'd rather just use kart over this guy most of the time, being bulkier + having access to special coverage like zap cannon + solg z isn't bad though
B
9. :gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega
i promise i'm not trolling stab moonblast to hit darks is really cool, idk if i'd use this over mmy though since stab fairy doesn't matter for too many calcs idt? idk ask akira not me
10. :aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega
super fast + fissure immune but it barely has any attack so it can't do much other than hazard lead/gastro sing stuff
11. :greninja-ash: Greninja-Ash
outspeeds 130s + stab pursuit + moldy move resists help this mon do stuff, not extremely fast though, it can't really bluff other sets that well, and it's really frail
12. :mewtwo-mega-x: Mewtwo-Mega-X
most of the time huge power is better but it does do stuff sometimes, wouldn't recommend it outside of mmx spam though as wgs can just kinda eat your hits a lot of the time
B-
pretty short comments after this point btw
13. :metagross-mega: Metagross-Mega
i'd probably just use solgaleo over this guy but he does exist
14. :zeraora: Zeraora
bluffs wg??? i guess??? also good speed tier
15. :beedrill-mega: THE BEE
super fast + absorbs tspikes, super frail though
16. :sceptile-mega: Sceptile-Mega
great speed tier but you're 4x ice shard weak so it's not very good imo
C Rank
not putting subtiers here i don't care enough about the stuff down here
17. :alakazam-mega: Alakazam-Mega
weird mix of mmy and deo-s, depending on what you want it to do mmy or deo is probably better though
18. :yveltal: Yveltal
i guess it's a selfproof ng sweeper??? really bad into anything remotely bulky though
19. :ninjask: Ninjask
i mean av cosmoem used this one time i guess
20. :vanilluxe::onix::oricorio-pom-pom: truly random shit
this is so obvious no one on the planet is falling for this
 
14. :zeraora: Zeraora
bluffs wg??? i guess??? also good speed tier
this guy can run your beloved mgar set with a much better speed tier and stronger zap cannon, does now lose to slaker but mgar loses to pbond mgar so i think that evens it out. anyways here's a cool set to not make this a 5 liner on mobile:

Slaking @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sunsteel Strike
- V-create
- Plasma Fists / Petal Blizzard

band espeed has some really good calcs which is what allows the set to work

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-X: 397-468 (95.4 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 496-585 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 316-373 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

as you can see this is really strong priority killing guys like mmx and mmy, and because it 2hkos zygod it means you don't need to run ice making the set mostly unwallable. heatran walls which is hardly a big deal and you also have to make the choice between ho-oh and mpert (2 already rare mons). outside of that the set doesn't have walls and bc ur band u can improof with guys you need band to 2hko like zygod and fc mbro, or you can just improof with the rare mons mentioned earlier.
 
4. :lopunny-mega: Lopunny-Mega
i feel like i diss this mon a lot but it isn't bad, moongeist immunity + outspeeding 130s are cool, outsped by mmy though so i don't like this
I don’t see why this would be outsped by MMY, you have no reason not to make it Timid (or Jolly if you run DPunch/SS) and MMY Timid isn’t real, you just go with Modest 'cause you outspeed 130s
 
I don’t see why this would be outsped by MMY, you have no reason not to make it Timid (or Jolly if you run DPunch/SS) and MMY Timid isn’t real, you just go with Modest 'cause you outspeed 130s
timid allows mmy to outspeed jolly mmx, jolly mgar, ash gren, mlop, and speed tie other mmy. also because of its 194 special attack stat it isn't a huge deal to not have a power boosting nature and timid mmy still has more spa then a modest mgar. im not even joking when i say literally every single mmy is +speed outside of like scarf or something.
 
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what are you talking about timid allows mmy to outspeed jolly mmx, jolly mgar, ash gren, mlop, and speed tie other mmy. also because of its 194 special attack stat it isn't a huge deal to not have a power boosting nature and timid mmy still has more spa then a modest mgar. im not even joking when i say literally every single mmy is +speed.
Well I'm prob wrong then, but most of my mmy were Modeste
 
no guard vr because I highly disagree with the former one. There is a little summary outside of each mon, and a more in-depth explanation inside the pokepast.es link. also aidan amoongus is really cool and have helped with about half the sets and descriptions. Shout out to them

In this vr I would list their sets and explain a bit why are they good (WIP)

S rank
:mewtwo-mega-y:https://pokepast.es/28ceab88eb190562
Fast and strong with a strong Photon Geyser. It has many sets and can surprise opponents.

S- rank
:lopunny-mega:https://pokepast.es/e0e0b6003a606b86
It resists Stealth Rock, U-Turn, Pursuit and First Impression and is really fast. It is also immune to Moongeist Beam.

:gengar-mega:https://pokepast.es/61dcc3d3cdb46d3d
Has many sets, and can absorb Toxic Spikes. While not the fastest, its Moongeist Beam still hits pretty hard.


A+ rank
:deoxys-speed:https://pokepast.es/6b6cf040978d9052

:pheromosa: https://pokepast.es/b73622dea8db980a
Very good speed tier + good typing + ok offense stat. Can also be scarf but a bit weaker. Can run pin missle and take a free egg with the right ev investment btw. STAB uturn and first impression to punish psy and dark type wgs.

A rank

:zygarde-complete: (zygarde,slowbro, etc... all those defensive mons that doesnt rely on wonder guard) https://pokepast.es/7b74ef800fe34c1b Your defensive stats are always there any way which means you can still do most things you could have do while being able to do damage.

A- rank

:greninja-ash:https://pokepast.es/ffbc816caac147f7 Good speed tier, and a really strong Pursuit. It can Pursuit a Innards Out Chansey/Blissey after a Gastro Acid and get a surprise kill.

:mewtwo-mega-x:https://pokepast.es/2db3c9c8d2e6ada9 Relatively less common compared to huge power mmx, but being able to utilize its bulk and to have an improbable shell smash set is still good, also versatility does matter even when you are not spamming. People now(writing this in July 2025) are hating mmx for some reason, but it would be still the meta defining mon. All the reason other mmx is good makes ng mmx good.

B+ rank
:deoxys-attack: https://pokepast.es/474db5b641704054 Good offense stat, very good speed tier, and the bulk is SO low that it could be a good thing here to improof it for rkillers. Mostly setup set Ill say.

:kartana:https://pokepast.es/dda24aa4501b72dcBad Speed tier, Good offense stat. Any way its similar to mmx expect cant run moongeist to scare the slowbros but have to run power whip stuff. Setup set should be better. To some extend outclassed by huge power kart.

:solgaleo: Similar to Kart, but with better special bulk and different type so that can wall different things.
:metagross-mega: Faster Solgaleo without free sss.

B rank
:beedrill-mega:Worse Mgar and Phero. Lacks offensive power while not able to outspeed deoa, (but it surprisingly have some bulk on special side 252+ SpA Parental Bond Gengar-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Beedrill-Mega: 250-295 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Dont ask me how did I know this)

:Aerodactyl-Mega:This might have some niche and be another kind of phero, but 150 spe not 151 is crucial. It have things like fake speed resistance and fissure immunity but I have no idea how to utilize it. Mabye fissure t spikes taunt pshot paired with balloon mgar?
btw fissure tspikes taunt pshot with balloon muk doesnt work bc u need to be a grounded poison to absorb tspikes. if ur balloon ur raised so tspikes stays

B- Rank
:sceptile-mega: https://pokepast.es/274ae62511776d50
Decent No Guard, but trades off Speed and attacking stats for Spore immunity.
 
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