Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[Magcargo]

I am confused why anti-Tera players are against banning Tera Blast. If you dont like Tera, compromises and complex bans are the best way to inch closer to banning Tera. Regardless of what is being said now, there is a possibility that in the future Tera becomes too much and it will be acted upon, like Gems, Sand Rush, or Chlorophyll in BW. Play the long game.

I do vibe with the arguments of enabling a lot of cool lower tier Pokémon being a positive + giving additional depth to mons like Sinistcha, but I'd also mention that a decent number of these lower tier cheesers are tough to prep for and Tera Blast's presence compounds that a bit.

 

[658Greninja]

If you want to see SV OU devolve into ZapKingLu balance hell go ahead and ban Tera Blast. This vocal minority might be slowly getting its way and I'm a bit sad to hear that. As a low tier mainer i do not like where this is going.

Please leave Tera Blast alone. Tera Blast is too fundamentally tied to Tera as a whole, and since it's been established we aren't touching that mechanic in CG, banning Tera Blast sounds like a complex ban because it makes like 2 pokemon a bit more problematic. I hated DLC1 so much... and we have evolved with the new tools, to the point where current SV is my favourite generation to play.

To be fair, I understand why people want to ban Tera Blast as a result of it contributing to high variance among offensive Pokemon, but I'd rather play this over ZapKingLu.

I understand you want Volcarona back (hot take: it was never broken even with tera blast imo) but this is a very fundamental change that will surely affect the lower tiers in unforeseen ways, too. Collateral damage, so to speak. I don't agree with offense tools getting banned and I don't think a tera blast ban would help improve the metagame.

No clue how banning Tera Blast creates a fatter meta. The ZapKingLu meta was in DLC1 and ofc, Tera Blast was a part of the tier. SV OU has numerous Balance breakers ranging from the consistent Waterpon, Kyurem, and SD Gliscor, to more niche picks like Hoopa.

I’m still mixed about Tera Blast. Its inherently cheesy when used by sweepers like Dnite or even lesser sweepers such as Ceru, but at the same time there’s an opportunity cost to needing to preserve Tera til you bring out your scary Tblast abuser since otherwise you’re running a mon with 3-slots.

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

No clue how banning Tera Blast creates a fatter meta. The ZapKingLu meta was in DLC1 and ofc, Tera Blast was a part of the tier. SV OU has numerous Balance breakers ranging from the consistent Waterpon, Kyurem, and SD Gliscor, to more niche picks like Hoopa.

I’m still mixed about Tera Blast. Its inherently cheesy when used by sweepers like Dnite or even lesser sweepers such as Ceru, but at the same time there’s an opportunity cost to needing to preserve Tera til you bring out your scary Tblast abuser since otherwise you’re running a mon with 3-slots.

I remember tera blast being much less of a discussion point before dlc2 dropped since some people were analyzing the possibility of banning Tera as a whole.

I don't like fatter metagames personally, and while I do respect the community's wishes, I believe banning Tera Blast would take away some of the fun of playing competitive mons.

It's not a baton pass situation for me, I think tera blast is only contentious on a very specific set of mons, namely those that can have Dragon Dance / Quiver Dance + defensive Tera, or Kingambit with Sucker Punch. Honestly, if tera blast is cheesy then so is sun, rain, grassy/psyterrain strats etc

 

[Moyashi]

I don't like fatter metagames personally, and while I do respect the community's wishes, I believe banning Tera Blast would take away some of the fun of playing competitive mons.

You’re not really listening it feels like. The meta would not suddenly devolve into fatspam without TB around. It’s nowhere near the only thing available that’s good info fat teams. And as pointed out, ZapKingLu was from an entirely different older metagame. I don’t know how this keeps getting fearmongered about.

Fun is subjective and not something to base tiering around unless the element in question is severely hampering it in that way, but at that point it’s also realistically hurting competitiveness if it’s hindering fun to that degree.

 

[Dragonair Bot]

Personally, while I do not believe Tera Blast is broken, I do believe that it has uncompetitive elements.

Firstly, I do not necessarily think the uncompetitiveness is present on sweeping sets (Dragonite, Gambit, etc). I think many people have adequately argued that in general, these sets actually involve a lot of Battling Skill (as defined in the tiering policy found here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tiering-policy-framework.3628026/ ). For example, if you see a serperior, gambit, dragonite, etc, you have to predict and plan for a variety of tera and tera blast types. This planning definitely rewards the most skilled both in the battle itself, and in creative team building. Likewise, I think with some of the banned mons such as volc, moon, and gouging, it was Tera that got them banned (usually with either a bulky set up, or a banded breaking set), which is off the table.

Where I believe the uncompetitive element comes in is in luring sets, for example in a random tera ice terablast on a mon that doesn't have ice or rock coverage (for ground or the birds), a random on a choice mon (for example, terablast stellar band zama or terablast fairy pult). Some of these things can be scouted or aren't completely uncommon, for example tera ice or fly lando, tera ice+volt switch mon, or tera rock rilla. The problem isn't these individual instances, however, but the practically endless variety that comes with Tera Blast being on literally every mon (besides the ogers, I guess). This effect basically messes with probability management for this generation: the variance is much higher, which rewards good play less often. I think the chief problem isn't the luring, obviously. As someone pointed out previously, luring has always been part of competitive Pokémon. The issue is that it basically bypasses movepool and phys/special restrictions. A great example is grassknot or powerherb solarbeam. Now, any mon with a strong enough offensive stat spread can basically do the same thing regardless of movepool.


What I honestly do not know, however, is if this is actually enough for a ban. I believe I see it more often than other people because I am very much a mid ladder player. People have also mentioned above that there is a pretty high opportunity cost, and thus the instances I have a problem with are much less common in tournaments and high ladder, where teams are much more optimized. While I do not know if this is enough for a ban, I do believe it is enough for a suspect (maybe now, maybe later).

Tera blast (not including Enam stellar, Dragonite, Gambit, Serp):
Terablast flying Enam (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-843218) (didn't win)
Terablast Ground Torn (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-851262) (did win, but you could probably discount this as semi-standard at this point and more of a sweeping/defensive tera than an actual lure)
Terablast poison alo team (https://pokepast.es/f61d4536f1c85fd4) from Savouras.

Way too small of a sample size to be relevant to determine if its a problem, unless you happen to think that the rarity proves its not a problem, obviously.

Personal note: I think in general I am pro ban simply from threat saturation. I'm just not great at this game, though I have been getting better this generation, and the threat list is big enough that I just can't seem to build a team that gets higher than low 1700s. At this point, personally I just support anything that might reduce the building strain. This is definitely a bias on my part. I tried to bring a point that I haven't seen talked about specifically, but even in writing it I didn't really convince myself of anything, much less convincing other people. Regardless thanks for reading.

 

[gregdawiz]

Tera blast (not including Enam stellar, Dragonite, Gambit, Serp):
Terablast flying Enam (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-843218) (didn't win)
Terablast Ground Torn (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-851262) (did win, but you could probably discount this as semi-standard at this point and more of a sweeping/defensive tera than an actual lure)
Terablast poison alo team (https://pokepast.es/f61d4536f1c85fd4) from Savouras.

Unsure if these are from the pro or anti-ban side, but I do like seeing these replays. As far as these replays go, its hard to see tera blast being too much different from just having defensive tera + proper coverage. Dragonite could have had ice spinner and TornT Heat wave to accomplish the same effect. Other Tera Blasts users are less trivial but easier to see coming (Electric Kyurem, Fairy Kingambit).

I *would* like to see more replays of Tera Blast reducing the skill level in a way that can't also be accomplished by defensive tera + setup. Trying to be open minded.

 

[JackRG]

I think Tera Blast should stay because I don't wanna see SV OU devolve into ZapKingLu balance hell. This vocal minority might be slowly getting its way and I'm a bit sad to hear that.

Seriously bro can we blacklist this phrase from discussion. It’s been 2 years since this was an actually common archetype and despite people “warning” it will come back after every ban it never does. They said it would come back when volcarona got banned. Never happened. They said it would come back when gouging fire got banned. Never happened. They said it would happen when kyurem got banned. In the 2 weeks it was gone, never happened. They said it would come back after roaring moon got banned. Never happened.

On the note of tera blast its unfortunate that nothing will happen probably but I can live with it staying. Imo SV OU is somewhat fun but far from the most serious format either, but to each their own (edit: not to throw too much shade at SV tho, this is pretty common for current gen)

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

Seriously bro can we blacklist this phrase from discussion. It’s been 2 years since this was an actually common archetype and despite people “warning” it will come back after every ban it never does. They said it would come back when volcarona got banned. Never happened. They said it would come back when gouging fire got banned. Never happened. They said it would happen when kyurem got banned. In the 2 weeks it was gone, never happened. They said it would come back after roaring moon got banned. Never happened.

On the note of tera blast its unfortunate that nothing will happen probably but I can live with it staying. Imo SV OU is somewhat fun but far from the most serious format either, but to each their own

I know this is another metagame, but I've just gotten reqs for PU's Duraludon suspect test and I enjoy that metagame way more, hoping it will get unbanned... because I feel offense is now way better with new ways to tech around milotic, glowbro etc

I prefer offense, I really dislike fatter metagames, and see ZapKingLu as more of an euphemism for fat balance HDB spam, which I think are much more adaptable than one would think. This is why I strongly oppose banning Tera Blast, especially when said ban would be transitive.

I oppose bans in general in SV OU but if anything should get banned it's Ting-Lu

 

[JackRG]

I prefer offense, I really dislike fatter metagames, and see ZapKingLu as more of an euphemism for fat balance HDB spam, which I think are much more adaptable than one would think. This is why I strongly oppose banning Tera Blast, especially when said ban would be transitive.

yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about lmao, I know it's not literally ZapKingLu. How common do you think fat bootspam is? When is the last time you've even seen it on the ladder?

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about lmao, I know it's not literally ZapKingLu. How common do you think fat bootspam is? When is the last time you've even seen it on the ladder?

I'm sure fat balance is not the top playstyle at the moment but that's because of all the breakers we have. That doesn't stop others from using mola, lu, corviknight together.

 

[JackRG]

I'm sure fat balance is not the top playstyle at the moment but that's because of all the breakers we have. That doesn't stop others from using mola, lu, corviknight together.

There’s like well over 30 knock off users that range from viable to incredible in SV OU. Any competent teambuilder can make a team well prepared for boots spam. Seriously, god forbid a game goes over 20 turns lmao, please stay away from literally other generation if a game going double digit turns triggers you

 

[ShizuOsaka]

Remember when we freaked out with how limited Knock Off, Toxic and Defog distribution was?
That was a good time.

 

[olamomalo]

hello here is some rough usage data for OLT based on the Top 50 OLT accounts (identified via prefix). Dont go wild interpreting this in contexts outside of OLT. There's a lot of cheese, personal preference, and survivorship bias contained within. The ELOs are mostly 1800+ but there are a few in 1700s.

Top 20 Pokemon by Usage

+ ---- + --------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon               | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + --------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Great Tusk            | 1161 |  44.38% |  60.64% |
| 2    | Zamazenta             |  701 |  26.80% |  65.05% |
| 3    | Kingambit             |  627 |  23.97% |  61.72% |
| 4    | Dragonite             |  585 |  22.36% |  61.03% |
| 5    | Slowking-Galar        |  564 |  21.56% |  62.81% |
| 6    | Ogerpon-Wellspring    |  556 |  21.25% |  60.90% |
| 7    | Gholdengo             |  506 |  19.34% |  57.51% |
| 8    | Raging Bolt           |  476 |  18.20% |  64.42% |
| 9    | Dragapult             |  425 |  16.25% |  66.12% |
| 10   | Cinderace             |  404 |  15.44% |  62.44% |
| 11   | Alomomola             |  394 |  15.06% |  60.46% |
| 12   | Landorus-Therian      |  382 |  14.60% |  65.18% |
| 13   | Corviknight           |  353 |  13.49% |  59.65% |
| 14   | Iron Valiant          |  352 |  13.46% |  67.05% |
| 15   | Ting-Lu               |  344 |  13.15% |  56.43% |
| 16   | Pecharunt             |  328 |  12.54% |  60.24% |
| 17   | Gliscor               |  312 |  11.93% |  60.06% |
| 18   | Weezing-Galar         |  294 |  11.24% |  58.82% |
| 19   | Enamorus              |  291 |  11.12% |  56.01% |
| 20   | Iron Moth             |  285 |  10.89% |  54.39% |

2 Pokemon Pairings

+ ---- + -------------------------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Combos of 2                            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + -------------------------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Great Tusk / Slowking-Galar            |  324 |  12.39% |  63.27% |
| 2    | Alomomola / Great Tusk                 |  302 |  11.54% |  62.25% |
| 3    | Cinderace / Slowking-Galar             |  292 |  11.16% |  63.45% |
| 4    | Dragonite / Great Tusk                 |  289 |  11.05% |  58.82% |
| 5    | Dragonite / Gholdengo                  |  276 |  10.55% |  56.52% |
| 6    | Great Tusk / Kingambit                 |  270 |  10.32% |  59.26% |
| 7    | Gholdengo / Great Tusk                 |  267 |  10.21% |  59.18% |
| 8    | Great Tusk / Ogerpon-Wellspring        |  248 |   9.48% |  59.68% |
| 9    | Dragapult / Great Tusk                 |  247 |   9.44% |  69.64% |
| 10   | Kingambit / Landorus-Therian           |  245 |   9.37% |  66.12% |

3 Pokemon Cores

+ ---- + ------------------------------------------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Combos of 3                                             | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------------------------------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Alomomola / Great Tusk / Lokix                          |  177 |   6.77% |  64.41% |
| 2    | Dragonite / Gholdengo / Great Tusk                      |  152 |   5.81% |  59.21% |
| 3    | Great Tusk / Kingambit / Slowking-Galar                 |  147 |   5.62% |  67.35% |
| 4    | Cinderace / Ogerpon-Wellspring / Slowking-Galar         |  139 |   5.31% |  65.94% |
| 5    | Kingambit / Landorus-Therian / Raging Bolt              |  135 |   5.16% |  69.63% |
| 6    | Dragonite / Gholdengo / Zamazenta                       |  135 |   5.16% |  58.52% |
| 7    | Dragapult / Great Tusk / Slowking-Galar                 |  134 |   5.12% |  62.69% |
| 8    | Dragapult / Great Tusk / Kingambit                      |  132 |   5.05% |  66.67% |
| 9    | Cinderace / Great Tusk / Slowking-Galar                 |  127 |   4.85% |  62.20% |
| 10   | Enamorus / Great Tusk / Slowking-Galar                  |  125 |   4.78% |  65.60% |

Top 10 Spammed Teams

I used https://fulllifegames.com/Tools/ReplayScouter/#/scouter to source this data. Note that all this information is based on what is revealed in replay, so going into depth on moves or tera types is necessarily going to exclude what was loaded but not clicked. I think it's best to use it for pokemon and teams.

Anyway...I'm slopping around, not much higher than 1900, and there is a lot of diversity in OLT. It's been pretty fun. There was a bunch of cheesy stuff (way too much lokix lol) in the first few days, but that's leveled out. Anecdotally, bulky teams with dragonite or zamazenta wincon seems to be the most consistent. Also, pretty sure this recent forum discussion Streishanded Terablast rillaboom into existence. Seen more of that than I have in the last year. And goddamn rest ting lu.

 

[EpicGuy321]

I'm bringing back Incineroar. I decided he had potential again as there may have been some favourable meta shifts post- ban.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2411835265

In this replay the opponent decides to tell me to forfeit after haxing me via paralysis. However, I made him eat his words after I clutched with the GOAT, Mr. "World Champ" Incineroar.

The team isn't perfected yet, so it looks a bit strange. You can see some unconventional/niche picks such as Lando-T (fell off), Kyurem (wannabe Uber), and Pecharunt (RUBL at best).

 

[Achohermano]

The OLT is great for practicing, since I'm getting matches aganist insane players like Leng Loi or Kebab in my "Low" elo (1750s- 1800s). I'm having a great time on the ladder this week.

However, while this is very cool and I'm learning a lot, I gotta say I'm getting extremely tired of one Pokémon: .

Dragonite has no business in this tier and it's the most annoying Pokémon to face in OU. It has 600 different DD sets (included, but not limited to: Tera Blast of the Tera type, Ice Spinner, Fire Punch, Scale Shot, Extreme Speed, Earthquake, Encore, Roost, Low Kick, Rock Slide, Dragon Tail...) both boots, leftovers, sharp beak and Loaded Dice each one not having exactly overlapping checks except extremely passive stuff like Dondozo, even less if you account for tera.

It can also go HDB utility with Dragon Tail and Banded. Again, those sets have different answers and sometimes have different checks, that are really different depending of the coverage Dnite has.

And I'm strictly talking about viable and usually used sets on the ladder. I'm not talking about niche options like special on rain or the bulky one with Twave used Lax used on tournament (yet I could actually add that last one to the tier, I won't).

It also has so many tera variants (included, but not limited to: Normal, Flying, Ground, Fairy, Ghost and Fire). I can understand a Pokémon having one, or two different tera types, but SIX? Some of them beaten by Zamazenta or Gambit but others just using it as set up? It's extremely toxic and cheesy.

Volcarona, Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire had less sets, were most of the times far riskier since they don't have multiscale, and did not have access to priority or Encore. The three of the do share recovery moves tho.

I think that facing Dragonite it's extremely annoying and that using it feels cheapier than a 99 cent store. This Pokémon has to go sooner than later in my honest opinion.

 

[ShizuOsaka]

The OLT is great for practicing, since I'm getting matches aganist insane players like Leng Loi or Kebab in my "Low" elo (1750s- 1800s). I'm having a great time on the ladder this week.

However, while this is very cool and I'm learning a lot, I gotta say I'm getting extremely tired of one Pokémon: .

Dragonite has no business in this tier and it's the most annoying Pokémon to face in OU. It has 600 different DD sets (included, but not limited to: Tera Blast of the Tera type, Ice Spinner, Fire Punch, Scale Shot, Extreme Speed, Earthquake, Encore, Roost, Low Kick, Rock Slide, Dragon Tail...) both boots, leftovers, sharp beak and Loaded Dice each one not having exactly overlapping checks except extremely passive stuff like Dondozo, even less if you account for tera.

It can also go HDB utility with Dragon Tail and Banded. Again, those sets have different answers and sometimes have different checks, that are really different depending of the coverage Dnite has.

And I'm strictly talking about viable and usually used sets on the ladder. I'm not talking about niche options like special on rain or the bulky one with Twave used Lax used on tournament (yet I could actually add that last one to the tier, I won't).

It also has so many tera variants (included, but not limited to: Normal, Flying, Ground, Fairy, Ghost and Fire). I can understand a Pokémon having one, or two different tera types, but SIX? Some of them beaten by Zamazenta or Gambit but others just using it as set up? It's extremely toxic and cheesy.

Volcarona, Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire had less sets, were most of the times far riskier since they don't have multiscale, and did not have access to priority or Encore. The three of the do share recovery moves tho.

I think that facing Dragonite it's extremely annoying and that using it feels cheapier than a 99 cent store. This Pokémon has to go sooner than later in my honest opinion.

I think the only problem for Nite is Tera Blast.
Its tera blast ghost set can hit a lot of things like Pecharunt and Twave Ghold, which makes checking it harder. Band set is a good one to catch someone surprised, but I don't think it's the dominating set in the long run.
Dragon Tail set is just... not that hard to deal with for me.

 

[Seraphyde]

The OLT is great for practicing, since I'm getting matches aganist insane players like Leng Loi or Kebab in my "Low" elo (1750s- 1800s). I'm having a great time on the ladder this week.

However, while this is very cool and I'm learning a lot, I gotta say I'm getting extremely tired of one Pokémon: .

Dragonite has no business in this tier and it's the most annoying Pokémon to face in OU. It has 600 different DD sets (included, but not limited to: Tera Blast of the Tera type, Ice Spinner, Fire Punch, Scale Shot, Extreme Speed, Earthquake, Encore, Roost, Low Kick, Rock Slide, Dragon Tail...) both boots, leftovers, sharp beak and Loaded Dice each one not having exactly overlapping checks except extremely passive stuff like Dondozo, even less if you account for tera.

It can also go HDB utility with Dragon Tail and Banded. Again, those sets have different answers and sometimes have different checks, that are really different depending of the coverage Dnite has.

And I'm strictly talking about viable and usually used sets on the ladder. I'm not talking about niche options like special on rain or the bulky one with Twave used Lax used on tournament (yet I could actually add that last one to the tier, I won't).

It also has so many tera variants (included, but not limited to: Normal, Flying, Ground, Fairy, Ghost and Fire). I can understand a Pokémon having one, or two different tera types, but SIX? Some of them beaten by Zamazenta or Gambit but others just using it as set up? It's extremely toxic and cheesy.

Volcarona, Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire had less sets, were most of the times far riskier since they don't have multiscale, and did not have access to priority or Encore. The three of the do share recovery moves tho.

I think that facing Dragonite it's extremely annoying and that using it feels cheapier than a 99 cent store. This Pokémon has to go sooner than later in my honest opinion.

Honestly, things like this are why I don't take the "most Pokemon aren't broken by Tera Blast, so that means Tera Blast is fine" argument seriously. This is a pattern. Volc got banned because of TB, Espathra got banned because of TB, Moon got banned because of TB, Kyurem ALMOST got banned because of TB, Palashit stayed banned because of TB. Just how many broken sweepers do we have to Endure before people wake up and realize that TB is (at least one of the most significant contributing factors to) the problem that Gen 9 OU faces.

 

[Karxrida]

Honestly, things like this are why I don't take the "most Pokemon aren't broken by Tera Blast, so that means Tera Blast is fine" argument seriously. This is a pattern. Volc got banned because of TB, Espathra got banned because of TB, Moon got banned because of TB, Kyurem ALMOST got banned because of TB, Palashit stayed banned because of TB. Just how many broken sweepers do we have to Endure before people wake up and realize that TB is (at least one of the most significant contributing factors) to the problems that Gen 9 OU faces.

"This post is about how Dragonite has a shitton of sets that don't even need to use Tera Blast. Tera Blast is clearly the issue somehow."

Also reminder that Volcarona has been a problem child for over a decade and Espartha has Speed Boost + Stored Power. Both are major matchup fishers even without Tera Blast.

 

[ShizuOsaka]

"This post is about how Dragonite has a shitton of sets that don't even need to use Tera Blast. Tera Blast is clearly the issue somehow."

Also reminder that Volcarona has been a problem child for over a decade and Espartha has Speed Boost + Stored Power. Both are major matchup fishers even without Tera Blast.

Tera Normal E-Speed, Tera Fire Scale Shot, Tera Ground EQ + Rock Slide and what else? Tera Ground EQ wasn't even the most popular set of it, so you are left with only two. Dragon Tail and Band set are not something that you have to think of how to deal with when you build your team normally.

Without Tera Blast, there won't be Fairy STAB for Tera Fairy set. There won't be Ghost STAB for Tera Ghost set. No Tera Flying set to blast off its Flying STAB either.

Terablast accounts for half of its relevant sweeper sets. The other three sets aren't something that hard to deal with IMO.

 

[Achohermano]

I think the only problem for Nite is Tera Blast.
Its tera blast ghost set can hit a lot of things like Pecharunt and Twave Ghold, which makes checking it harder. Band set is a good one to catch someone surprised, but I don't think it's the dominating set in the long run.
Dragon Tail set is just... not that hard to deal with for me.

I do agree they're not that relevant but you still have to keep an eye for them, I just for example faced one in this elo (which is, imo, decent to analyze what's good or not) like 5 minutes ago.

Again, I know you won't face one all the time but you have to also prepare for it, since if it hits your ice spinner rapid spin tusk or your molt on a switch in with a banded tera blast flying you can lose a lot of ground from there or even the entire game.

 

[ShizuOsaka]

I do agree they're not that relevant but you still have to keep an eye for them, I just for example faced one in this elo (which is, imo, decent to analyze what's good or not) like 5 minutes ago.

Again, I know you won't face one all the time but you have to also prepare for it, since if it hits your ice spinner rapid spin tusk or your molt on a switch in with a banded tera blast flying you can lose a lot of ground from there or even the entire game.

Hence why Tera is the problem for me. It makes Dragonite from hard to deal with to downright undealable.
Same with Kyurem. Tera Fire and Tera Ground make it harder to check defensively because now you have to account for DDance Tera Blast. Without it, they may have to run some flat uninvested Earth Power for coverage in DDance set.

 

[ShizuOsaka]

Also is this me or has HO become more prevalent once again?
I mean yeah, HO has always been a thing in the meta, but ever since the rise of Ceruledge, I find myself running into HO teams much more frequently.
The funny thing with Ceru is that a lot of times, you know what it's gonna do anyway, but you still find yourself in a bad situation because if your defensive Landorus-T isn't healthy, it can straight up run away with the game. Another solution is to run Raging Bolt, but you need Booster Energy to safely play around it, and sometimes even Tera Fairy to avoid losing too much health against Close Combat.

 

[Welcome to mars]

HO is abit more common with the rise of the edgelord which is a mainly HO pokemon, but its not a significant trend compared to the other times HO was really popular.

I am interested in whats going to change in the next few months for the meta, maybe some more scizor, which is a surprisingly solid revenge killer.