Doubles VGC 2025 Regulation J Metagame Discussion

[RauSakura]

Approved by Sapphire, edited from the VGC Regulation I OP by Princess Autumn

Welcome to the VGC Metagame Discussion thread for Regulation J! This metagame is currently playable on PS! but will not be the official in-game ruleset until 1st September 2025 through to 4th January 2026. Note that this ruleset will only apply for in-game ranked ladder. Other live tournament events will use the Regulation H ruleset between 1st September and 1st December. The ruleset of Regulation J legalizes all Pokémon available in Scarlet and Violet and is a dual special Pokémon format. This thread is primarily for the discussion of VGC Regulation J, discussion about other formats should go in their appropriate threads.

Players are limited to a maximum of two of the following restricted special Pokémon on their teams:

Restricted Special Pokémon

Mew
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-Defense
Deoxys-Defense
Jirachi
Phione
Manaphy
Darkrai
Shaymin
Shaymin-Sky
Arceus
Keldeo
Meloetta
Diancie
Hoopa
Hoopa-Unbound
Volcanion
Magearna
Zarude
Pecharunt
Mewtwo
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Dialga
Dialga-Origin
Palkia
Palkia-Origin
Giratina
Giratina-Origin
Reshiram
Zekrom
Kyurem
Kyurem-White
Kyurem-Black
Cosmog
Cosmoem
Solgaleo
Lunala
Necrozma
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Zacian
Zacian-Crowned
Zamazenta
Zamazenta-Crowned
Eternatus
Calyrex
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Miraidon
Koraidon
Terapagos

If you're new to VGC, be sure to check out the other posts in the forum and to join our Discord! You might also want to look into resources like VGCPastes, VGC Guide, VGC damage calculator to help you get started.

 

[SoulBadguy0408]

I think we all know Magearna TR is a pretty good team

 

[Pengu]

personal meta thoughts on reg j, starting with a mythical vr (this is technically early meta thoughts so...)

Arceus

Arceus is one of only a few mythicals that is actually a contender for a restricted slot. Base 120 in every stat is insane, making it not only super bulky but also super strong and fast. I personally think only a few Arceus formes are good though, being the following:
, , , ,

Of course, any of them could realistically work. Normal Arceus is obviously the best in my opinion; STAB +2 Extreme Speed is picking off so many things, especially when next to things like Chien-Pao. You also only really fear Zamazenta-C, Koraidon, and the Urshifu formes, where the first and last are vulnerable to Extreme Speed (especially when boosted) and Zamazenta-C can be handled by partners like Amoonguss. Extreme Speed also hits almost anything, and coverage like Shadow Claw and Earthquake exist for Ghosts and Steels.

Fairy-Arceus (Fairyceus for short) is probably going to be good. Very good into Koraidon and is a nice switch in to Draco Meteor from Miraidon, Body Press, Close Combat, and more. Fairyceus is also a reliable Calm Mind user, especially since Judgement as a Fairy move really only thuds into Magearna and Volcanion and Volcarona, while Earth Power can threaten all of those. I think a support set is interesting too, but you probably don't want to waste your restricted slot on a dedicated support...

Arceus-Ground (Groundceus) is probably better than Fairyceus, considering you do far better into Miraidon in exchange for a worse Calyrex-I and Kyogre matchup, as well as a worse Urshifu matchup. You do threaten a lot (again with a Calm Mind set), and a Dragon Dance / Swords Dance set could be really cool for this guy as well.

Arceus-Water (Waterceus) is pretty similar to Fairyceus, beating out Urshifu-R, Kyogre, Calyrex-I, and doing decent into Koraidon. Unfortunately, this guy feels kind of relegated to a supportive option that can sometimes do good damage, considering Water hardly hits anything hard enough to be good.

Arceus-Dark (Darkceus) is the last form I'd like to talk about. Realistically you only use it for Calyrex-S and maybe early meta EForce Deoxys. Yeah, similar to Water in that Dark isn't hitting a lot outside of the Calyrex formes, I think this could be a nice Calm Mind user though too.

Overall, Arceus is a strong and versatile Pokemon that can mody likely fit anywhere.

Magearna

Magearna is probably the mythical I've used most so far (granted I've only used this, Deoxys-Attack and a bit of Arceus and Volcanion), and it feels really solid. It has good bulk and Soul-Heart is absolutely broken.

I think accommodating for this is actually really easy. For a Trick Room team (since Magearna is pretty slow), just sacrificing a Follow Me user like Smeargle and letting Magearna set Trick Room makes you a +2 sweeper already, letting you launch powerful Flash Cannons and Fleur Cannons.

Calm Mind builds are also really solid, but probably a bit worse, since you are far more vulnerable to Koraidon and such, but partners like Grimmsnarl, probably Encore+Disable Calyrex-S, Rillaboom, Amoonguss and others can help diminish this. I assume this will play like CM Pagos + CSR, although I'm not too sure.

Magearna, as stated above, is pretty broken lol (forgot to mention, hut you can also set TR while sacrificing Annihilape with Scarf Final Gambit and, assuming it OHKOs, gives Magearna and +2, while +1 is guaranteed regardless).

Deoxys-Attack

DeoA is pretty good in my opinion, certainly above most other Mythcial Pokemon. Its high speed and attacking stats make it a favorable option for many teams (for reference, you are matching speed with Calyrex-S). Unfortunately, you really need Focus Sash to do anything, meaning something like Life Orb or Choice Specs are off the table, although scarf sounds cool.

This doesn't really matter though, since Tera Psychic Psycho Boost Helping Hand-boosted in Psychic Terrain with Beads of ruin goes hard.

You definitely need some support into Urshifu-R though, since you can't take Surging Strikes at all. There really isn't much to say aside from "funny nuke go boom". Definition of a glass cannon for sure.

Darkrai

Although people think this Pokemon is good, I don't believe it to be all of that and am willing to move it down a tier or two.

Dark Void is a move that almost everyone is familiar with; and not for a good reason. Luckily, it got nerfed pretty bad going into gen 9, going from 80% accuracy to 50% accuracy. This means, to reliably put things to sleep, you need a fast Gravity user, and there aren't many (from what I've seen, CSR is the best here) faster than Darkrai.

Even if you manage to put things to sleep, what will you do? Dark Pulse, although good, isn't very strong, especially coming off of Darkrai. Setting up with CSR is far more valuable; the opportunity cost is far too high for Darkrai to be legit good... unfortunately.

The Rest

rest of these will be short, since the ones above are really the only usable ones

- I tried using this guy as a TR attacker and it really doesn't do great. Maybe a bulky AV / Rocky Helm set could work out? But wasting a restricted slot on that isn't very good...

- Kinda just worse than Deoxys-Attack since you die to anything in both formes, maybe if you can survive Surging Strikes it could have a niche but I doubt it can.

- Think this one is pretty under explored, willing to move it up but just haven't seen what it can do (Eforce breaker in TR I guess?).

- Been theorying with this one for a bit now, could maybe pull off what it pulls off in DOU? Diamond Storm is stupid enough where this will be at least niche.

- Probably will only work in bo1 which is good because this is only bo1 anyways, Scarf Air Slash sounds nice and Seed Flare does good damage.

- Relic Song and transformation could be cool, bulky enough too.

- Fast and strong with a pretty shit typing, Jungle Healing is cool (but cresselia literally gets the same thing...).

- Learns all TMs gotta be good at something

- Paraflinch anyone?

- Just doesn't do enough damage, gets good utility but is probably better built for singles.

- baton pass tail glow. Manaphy just doesn't have the power anymore to keep up.

- should probably be in D tier, just clinging to hope that its good because I love the thing.

- this can probably swap with pecharunt considering its high spatk and low speed.

- worse than sky forme

- urshifu. Need I say more?

& - shit on top of shit

yeah that's it bye, subject to change, though I probably won't play much because Regulation H is pretty fun.

 

[vertake]

I think we all know Magearna TR is a pretty good team

I fought some of those. The best check are helping hand + astral barrage with life orb or spell tag, ooor specs chiyu with helping hand. Or you might use imprison Farigiraf for averting TR

 

[AnsonIsTheBest]

GO DEOA

 

[Fangame10]

I feel like you can make a good argument for Arceus Ice on snow teams being a decent choice.
120 all around stats mean that Arceus-Ice in snow is going to really difficult to take down with just physical moves and even more so if Aurora Veil is up. This makes it significantly harder to KO than Kyurem-White (I still love you!) who has 125hp/90def/100spdef in terms of defenses. In addition it has access to Calm Mind which can cover its special defense stat (while Defense is already being covered by snow as mentioned) and boost its spatk to match Kyurem's (1 CM is enough for this).

You can then run healers like Sinistcha or Amoongus (in my case I'm also running a Ho-oh with Life Dew on my team) which can make this thing an absolutely unkillable unit.

team I've been using if anyone wants to try
https://pokepast.es/9799fe1ec2c65c18

some random replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regj-2418140637
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regj-2418162499?p2

this one has Aldrich who completely ignored me and pretended not to know he was playing against me in discord :(
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regj-2415635609-5tsmuk1txhxauq8sab0ui8hqxm99dd5pw

 

[Aldrich]

I feel like you cant make a good argument for Arceus Ice on snow teams being a ass choice.
bla bla bla yap yap yap yap arceus ice is bad yap yap yap yap

this one has Aldrich who completely ignored me and pretended not to know he was playing against me in discord :( (I haxed him lol bozo)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regj-2415635609-5tsmuk1txhxauq8sab0ui8hqxm99dd5pw

BRO WE GOT TO CLARIFY SOME THINGS.


YOU AND I KNOW IF I LOOK AT MY OPPS AND MEET YOU I WILL 100% YAP

I was at work and was bored so I laddered on MOBILE, which doesnt give the chat button and I usually do not care on who my opp is maybe until after I win coz i like to save my replays (this is where I will eventually see chat) when I win and instant leave when I lose, after all its just ladder I play and move on


Anyways now that I'm in here, I think Arceus has a place on this meta and can be explored with more things (Iron defense , Calm Mind ,E Killer, and other ubers set) and so does HTR Magearna. Niche could be hoopa unbound, Darkrai and maybe deoxys attack for now.


Anyways as u can see in the replays ive been using that but ditto over farigiraf and reached 1500 atm because when I tried to use fun I got darkraied.


I think this format can be fun and hopefully we have Reg J tournaments either in smogon, limitless or battlefy,

Excited to see the development of this format especially during October where the ladder is already developed in cart and JP players starting to share stuffs

 

[Fangame10]

BRO WE GOT TO CLARIFY SOME THINGS.


YOU AND I KNOW IF I LOOK AT MY OPPS AND MEET YOU I WILL 100% YAP

I was at work and was bored so I laddered on MOBILE, which doesnt give the chat button and I usually do not care on who my opp is maybe until after I win coz i like to save my replays (this is where I will eventually see chat) when I win and instant leave when I lose, after all its just ladder I play and move on


Anyways now that I'm in here, I think Arceus has a place on this meta and can be explored with more things (Iron defense , Calm Mind ,E Killer, and other ubers set) and so does HTR Magearna. Niche could be hoopa unbound, Darkrai and maybe deoxys attack for now.


Anyways as u can see in the replays ive been using that but ditto over farigiraf and reached 1500 atm because when I tried to use fun I got darkraied.


I think this format can be fun and hopefully we have Reg J tournaments either in smogon, limitless or battlefy,

Excited to see the development of this format especially during October where the ladder is already developed in cart and JP players starting to share stuffs

View attachment 762928

There is no fixing the pain I have been dealt.....

 

[ElPachirisuDelVGC]

I decided to create a Trick Room team but with one anti-meta decision: Dragalge

This team is way better against Hyper-offense teams instead of Bulky Offense. I had a very bad matchup against Armarouge-Indeedee core. I will explain the function of every member of the team and how to play it.

Calyrex is the slow bulky sweeper. You can use Crunch, Close Combat or Zen Headbutt if you don't want to use it as a TR setter. It has good matchups against fast but frail mons like Flutter Mane, Rilaboom or Koraidon, or mons like Amoonguss. Miraidon can be a threat if you terastalized into Water, but Calyrex has a OHKO guaranteed with Glacial Lance or High Horsepower. It has bad matchups against Kyogre, Urshifu-Water if you don't have Zen Headbutt, Lunala/Iron Valiant/Zamazenta or basically any mon with Wide Guard if you aren't prepared for that.

Dragalge is a bulky special mon. It can be a good response to threats like Chi-Yu, Flutter Mane or Koraidon/Miraidon. I'm not as experimented with this mon because this is a niche option, but is specially. With a good partner like Magearna or Cresselia and TR it can be very dangerous. It has bad matchups against powerful physical bulky mons like Ursaluna, and Magearna takes null damage from it's STABs. He really needs a fire type movement. You can use Tera Blast Fire if you want.

Incineroar is... Well, Incineroar

Cresselia also doesn't need too much explanation, but there is a thing that i want to explain. I designed a strategy against Miraidon where Cresselia runs tera Fairy with Dragalge and then it use Ally Switch. If Miraidon uses Draco Meteor then Cresselia will absorb the hit because fairy type, and then Dragalge can use it's own Draco Meteor against Miraidon. OHKO

Magearna is a late game sweeper with Dazzling Gleam, and it has a good matchup against almost all the meta. Also is a good option to switch in when your opponent is running Final Gambit Annihilape. Replace TR with Protect

Ursaluna is the classic TR sweeper: Facade/Headlong Rush to every moving thing.

My ideal core is first Calyrex-Cresselia for TR, and then the Dragalge-Magearna combo

 

[Galewind]

This is such an interesting idea for a new VGC format! Sadly I don't think that mythicals (aside from Arceus) will have a huge impact on how the meta compares to Regulation I. This doesn't mean the other mythicals are weak though! They just seem generally weaker than the pre-existing restricted legendaries. Mew and Darkrai though in particular would probably be staples on many strong teams if they didn't use up a restricted slot.

 

[Pengu]

This is such an interesting idea for a new VGC format! Sadly I don't think that mythicals (aside from Arceus) will have a huge impact on how the meta compares to Regulation I. This doesn't mean the other mythicals are weak though! They just seem generally weaker than the pre-existing restricted legendaries. Mew and Darkrai though in particular would probably be staples on many strong teams if they didn't use up a restricted slot.

While this is unfortunately true, you do fail to five credit to other Mythicals that CNA be legit threats, namely Magearna but also Deoxys-A.

Magearna is probably the 2nd best Mythical and is on par with most Restricteds, if not better. Soul-Heart is an insane ability (basically better Grim Neigh) and when combined with Magearna's high Special Attack + Fleur Cannon and other powerful moves like Flash Cannon and Dazzling Gleam, Magearna becomes a threat that reckons tons of respect. Even Calm Mind sets can work well that KS to Magearna's solid bulk, and it is still threatening because of its omega powerful moves.

Deoxys-A is definitely one of the better Mythicals around (see my tier list above). With 180 in both attacking stats, it becomes a super strong attacker. Boasting popularity on Psyspam teams, Tera Psychic Expanding Force and Psycho Boost can go insanely hard and is sometimes unstoppable for some teams (this is boosted by the seemingly drop of Miraidon usage, likely due to new toy syndrome). Even Dark-types aren't safe, since, thanks to Deoxys-A's also insane physical attack stat, Superpower is an actual legit option. Pair this with others like Calm Mind / Nasty Plot and Shadow Ball, and you're good to go! Also note that this guy ties with Calyrex-S in terms of speed.

Mew and Darkrai, if they weren't Restricted, would be decent or maybe pretty good, but I doubt they'd be staples of Regulation J. While Mew is a demon in CTS in a Smeargle-esc manner, its lack of some moves like Wide Guard, Decorate, and any sleeping move, on top of kind of mid stats (power creep ik), I think Mew as a Non-Restricted may fall short of one's expectations.

Darkrai would be borderline broken... maybe? Yeah, sleep is broken. But there are still Pokemon that would just be more reliable. Damage-wise, it just isn't that strong, and demanding a Focus Sash to be useful isn't giving any favors. It would probably be niche at best, especially since you kind of need to build around it, although I think it could be cool on a Groudon+Gravity CSR team if it wasn't a Restricted Pokemon.

I like ranting about this format so much lol, its just such a fun format

 

[Galewind]

While this is unfortunately true, you do fail to five credit to other Mythicals that CNA be legit threats, namely Magearna but also Deoxys-A.

Magearna is probably the 2nd best Mythical and is on par with most Restricteds, if not better. Soul-Heart is an insane ability (basically better Grim Neigh) and when combined with Magearna's high Special Attack + Fleur Cannon and other powerful moves like Flash Cannon and Dazzling Gleam, Magearna becomes a threat that reckons tons of respect. Even Calm Mind sets can work well that KS to Magearna's solid bulk, and it is still threatening because of its omega powerful moves.

Deoxys-A is definitely one of the better Mythicals around (see my tier list above). With 180 in both attacking stats, it becomes a super strong attacker. Boasting popularity on Psyspam teams, Tera Psychic Expanding Force and Psycho Boost can go insanely hard and is sometimes unstoppable for some teams (this is boosted by the seemingly drop of Miraidon usage, likely due to new toy syndrome). Even Dark-types aren't safe, since, thanks to Deoxys-A's also insane physical attack stat, Superpower is an actual legit option. Pair this with others like Calm Mind / Nasty Plot and Shadow Ball, and you're good to go! Also note that this guy ties with Calyrex-S in terms of speed.

Mew and Darkrai, if they weren't Restricted, would be decent or maybe pretty good, but I doubt they'd be staples of Regulation J. While Mew is a demon in CTS in a Smeargle-esc manner, its lack of some moves like Wide Guard, Decorate, and any sleeping move, on top of kind of mid stats (power creep ik), I think Mew as a Non-Restricted may fall short of one's expectations.

Darkrai would be borderline broken... maybe? Yeah, sleep is broken. But there are still Pokemon that would just be more reliable. Damage-wise, it just isn't that strong, and demanding a Focus Sash to be useful isn't giving any favors. It would probably be niche at best, especially since you kind of need to build around it, although I think it could be cool on a Groudon+Gravity CSR team if it wasn't a Restricted Pokemon.

I like ranting about this format so much lol, its just such a fun format

I see, cool takes. Yeah, I was thinking that a non-restricted Darkrai might fulfill a similar role in this regulation to what Smeargle was in VGC 2016, just a little bit less overpowered. Dark Void doesn't have the same accuracy that it used to, and Darkrai doesn't have as diverse of a movepool as Smeargle, but of course, Dakrai's high BST would nearly make up for these shortcomings. Magearna and Attack Deoxys definitely have their uses, you're right about that. All in all, I look forward to experiencing this fun new format!

 

[Fangame10]

Arceus(and other forms), Magearna and maybe Darkrai gimmicks are the only mythicals likely that would have practical use imo.

Now I am just going off DOU experience (and it's a 6v6 meta) but I don't see deoxys attack being good at all. One of the main reasons for banning it was because it was super matchup fish. DOU doesn't often use Grimmsnarl or Wide Guard and certainly doesn't have miraidon. Deoxys may have a 180atk and spatk as well as moves like superpower and extreme speed, but it's still very much a noodle of a glass cannon and I think a lot of pokemon in reg J are too strong for it, and I think pokemon like Calyrex already do its job better. But I could be wrong and maybe someone can find this broken psyspam team with it

 

[sheepie]

Okay so time for me to yap about the usable mythicals (in order of viability IMO):
Arceus: Oh god (see what I did there??) this is a very cool mon, Normal being the obvious standout for ekiller things, tho unsure how it will hold up in the long term due to csr, zama, cir and farig all being good and the latter being easy to fit onto mirai and korai builds. Fairy seems genuinely amazing and needs more exploration, ground and ice seem nice offensively, and there are many other options. S or A tier restricted
Magearna: I think this is overrated, its not the best stat wise, its typing is okay in the current format, but not as good as it has been, its STABs are downright bad (fleur cannon has antisynergy and then dgleam does nothing without like 3 or 4 boosts), it doesn't help vs most of hard trs problem mus, and annihilape is i mean okay, but gets prioed or tera ghosted and kinda allows for your hard tr team to trade massive damage on mag and a whole mon for another mon (maybe) and tr, and then your opp also gets a very useful positional switch. I feel like once the hype has died down it will be a B or C tier restricted at best.
Hoopa-U: Cool on HTR teams, makes csr's day a nightmare. (Also iron ball with hyperspace fury next to glacial lance is actually insane, like you break wide guard, and hoopa u 2HKOs zama with psychic/eforce, so I could legit see this being great on the right team) Literally, imo, the 3rd best mythical by quite a margin. C or B tier (cope)
Darkrai: I don't even need to explain why this is dogshit, mirai, zama, korai, urshifu, lunala being EVERYWHERE, shit accuracy in gravity anyways, no damage output, requires so much support, that being said Dark Void is a menace in any scenario and you could do worse. C tier
Pecharunt: Cool on dozo teams, nothing else to say. C or D tier
Deo-A: Why the fuck would you use this over CSR, doesn't reach any meaningful kos (that i know of), literally unbelievably frail, shit typing. You might say "oh it has coverage for incin" but like, first off partner restricted/mons, second -1 4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Superpower vs. 244 HP / 188+ Def Incineroar: 109-130 (54.2 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, (OH and CSR 2shots chien pao with Astral barrage anyways, same as Deo with Superpower (yes it has a very marginally better mu but still, just use zama), and chi yu outspeeds and ohkos deo a without sash, and with sash after a spatk drop from snarl tera ghost chi yu beats deo a 1v1 regardless) and the other coverage is not only hard to fit but almost always outdamaged by csr's raw stabs. Also this thing has no ability. I have no idea why people think this will hold any semblance of a niche. Also, in terms of damage output, you get outclassed by CSR cause it can afford to run lorb, yes psycho boost does exist but low accuracy + single target + attack drop makes it pretty much worthless. I would wholeheartedly rather use lorb tera stellar csr then this, and I think it would work much better. Sorry for the rant I just think this mon is beyond useless compared to CSR, its only real pro being superpower (which I covered) and psycho boost which is admittedly a nuke but also very flawed and doesn't come close to saving this. D- tier (couldn't justify F cause like, Phione exists)